Tom Heaton

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# 1
ClaretAndJew
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby ClaretAndJew » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:07 pm

Who do we get in as the third choice understudy? A young keeper from the lower leagues?

Hart won't be on the bench all season and with Pope's new contract I imagine he'd be more willing so perhaps Hart is number one and will run his contract down for Pope to take over.

# 2
dermotdermot
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby dermotdermot » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:09 pm

Give me strength!
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Bin Ont Turf
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Bin Ont Turf » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:11 pm

dermotdermot wrote:Give me strength!


It's certainly mental central on this thread.

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rob63
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby rob63 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:13 pm

Steve1956 wrote:What you reckon Dyche will do,I think he will have Pope no1 and both Heaton & Hart will leave.


It's possible, cue speculation on possible incoming goalies now!

But if the management knew this was coming, I'm surprised they let Lindegard go, espcially as he'd done his coaching badges here.

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elwaclaret
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby elwaclaret » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:16 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Maybe nobody is interested.


Think it’s more likely the size of commitment for the clubs that are interested, Hart has enough credit at the top for him to survive his rough couple of seasons. Or he may be holding out for the states / China.

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rob63
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby rob63 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:18 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote:Why would Tom want to play for a team with Mings in front of him


Heaton's a good talker but he's going to have laryngitis with Mings & Hause in front of him.......no wonder JT is looking elsewhere!

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby RVclaret » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:20 pm

Will be very sad to see Tom leave but its excellent business for the club and we have an England international in Pope ready to step in.

Pope was outstanding for us that season and the dominance of his area relieved a lot of pressure on the defence.

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rob63
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby rob63 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:22 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Choosing between Heaton and Pope is like choosing which kid is your favourite.

Hart is the unwanted 3rd child by the looks.of it.


Conceived while your missus was playing away with the local hairdresser!
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whiffa
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby whiffa » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:30 pm

It's simple really - why would we release/sell our club captain and argueably best player in the last decade? If he wants to go, all the best to him - if he doesn't, he deserves the club to fight to keep him with everything we have.

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ClaretAL
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby ClaretAL » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:31 pm

If Utd keeper is worth 75mil, then 10 is ridiculous for Tom.

That said Tom is our best keeper by a country mile, and for me looking at Popes cameo appearance last season in the cup, and yes the only game I had seen him in since his injury, he was far from the form in his glory season, so I just hope he isn't another who wont get back to how he was, or that 10mil might just be the most costliest mistake we have made.

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby tim_noone » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:38 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:Who do we get in as the third choice understudy? A young keeper from the lower leagues?

Hart won't be on the bench all season and with Pope's new contract I imagine he'd be more willing so perhaps Hart is number one and will run his contract down for Pope to take over.

Exactly this.

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buzzclarets79
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby buzzclarets79 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:06 am

How things change.......

A few years ago the board were getting pelters for signing a keeper (free I might add) that had let in a shed load at championship level, that same keeper is now been touted by some on here for 15 mill to Villa........ :D

Maybe our recruitment isn't that bad after all...
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Long Time Lurker » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:09 am

boatshed bill wrote:I don't go for this "you're no1" stuff. How about form and performance?


It seems to be one of those this is how it always has been so this is how it always will be notions. A No1 and a lesser quality backup.

However, if you have two or more quality keepers who can do the job that shouldn't be the case. No two keepers are exactly alike, they all have different strengths and weaknesses.

It's a bit strange how managers will frequently use different strategies when they decide how to set up their outfield players, in relation to the team they are facing, and yet the keeper always remains the same.

If one keeper is a lot better than the other I can understand it, but when you have the luxury of more than one great keeper you can rotate them and pick the keeper with the best qualities to get the job done against a particular team.

In a league of fine margins anything that could provide us with a competitive advantage is something that should be considered and it would be a good way to keep more than one keeper happy. Simply because nobody else has the necessary depth in keeper talent to try it doesn't mean we shouldn't be the first to get the maximum benefit from our keepers by leading the way.

Selling Tom would be a massive loss. As others have said it isn't just his playing ability that we would miss it is also his influence, leadership and character ( which epitomises everything you would want in a person and a player ). His return to the team played an important part in our amazing recovery last season and that didn't happen by chance. It seemed to give the whole squad a lift and renewed their sense of belief. Fresh start, let's go out and do this.

An invaluable part of the dressing room dynamic and a pillar of support for the players and manager that they can rely on. Selling him to a direct rival would be taking a huge risk and £7m for a keeper of his stature and importance to us is nothing.

If he wants to play then we should "juggle the plates" and try something new to make that happen and keep everyone happy, we could even benefit from it.

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby CoolClaret » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:15 am

ClaretAL wrote:If Utd keeper is worth 75mil, then 10 is ridiculous for Tom.

That said Tom is our best keeper by a country mile, and for me looking at Popes cameo appearance last season in the cup, and yes the only game I had seen him in since his injury, he was far from the form in his glory season, so I just hope he isn't another who wont get back to how he was, or that 10mil might just be the most costliest mistake we have made.


What when we played an absolutely rampant Man City side?

Talk about confirmation bias

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby superdimitri » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:55 am

I don't understand how people rate coming for crosses so important. If teams know we play pope they will just drill or whip crosses in instead of float them.

The games we struggle in have not been down to not playing Pope so he can come for crosses.

I worry if we lose Heaton that A. Pope was a one season wonder B. We can forget playing out from the back. In fact we may as well just kick it out for a throw in from goal kicks.

Anyone remember Marlon Beresford being so bad at kicking Steve Davis used to take goal kicks? Maybe that's a plan.

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Vegas Claret » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:37 am

As long as we have Billy Mercer then we will be ok
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Steddyman » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:02 am

If Tom leaves for West Spam it is because he knows he isn't good enough to keep Pope out of the first team. Simple as.

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taffy
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby taffy » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:09 am

I'm sure the gk coach has had some input into this and if he didn't think Pope was up to the job then Heaton would have been offered the exact contract he wanted, as it is we seemed to have a excellent gk coach Heaton has proved that over the last few seasons but this is football, players age and a younger man takes your place whether he turns out to be better than Heaton only time will tell but we need to wish Heaton well get as much money for him as we can and let him play first team football and one last big pay day

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Spijed
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Spijed » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:32 am

Heaton better than Pope by a country mile, as some are suggesting?

Really?

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CFS
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby CFS » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:33 am

superdimitri wrote:I don't understand how people rate coming for crosses so important. If teams know we play pope they will just drill or whip crosses in instead of float them.


This is the reason we play a back 4 as in kick the ball away if it comes to you.

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deanothedino
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby deanothedino » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:34 am

superdimitri wrote:We can forget playing out from the back. In fact we may as well just kick it out for a throw in from goal kicks.


Now, I'm pretty critical of Pope's kicking but come on. He can pass it as far as a centre half to allow us to play out from the back.

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby CFS » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:35 am

Spijed wrote:Heaton better than Pope by a country mile, as some are suggesting?

Really?

He's louder on the pitch so I'd say roughly a county mile not country.
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deanothedino
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby deanothedino » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:42 am

elwaclaret wrote:Pretty much the reason I would consider sanctioning it at £15m. If Tom wants to leave, he deserves a goodwill gesture. However any less than £15m does not compensate Burnley for losing the player, loosing the player to a potential rival, or losing their potential number one for next season. £15m is playing fair with everyone imo

I don't think this logic works when the player wants to go. They won't be at their best and it might tarnish the atmosphere in the dressing room.

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Down_Rover » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:21 am

superdimitri wrote:I don't understand how people rate coming for crosses so important. If teams know we play pope they will just drill or whip crosses in instead of float them.



We can forget playing out from the back.

Anyone remember Marlon Beresford being so bad at kicking Steve Davis used to take goal kicks? Maybe that's a plan.


To be fair we are not good enough to play out from the back whoever plays in goal.

We are Burnley not Barcelona (or Citeh)
Last edited by Down_Rover on Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Down_Rover » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:25 am

Letting Tom go is a business decision that coincides with his desire to leave.
If we give him a 3 year contract he will be worth nothing at 37 and he may spend the next 4 years sulking on the bench.
He has been a great servant so if we don't fancy a 4 year term, let him go with our best wishes
The only part of the equation I don't understand is £7m.
Why cant we get other PL teams to enter the bidding, there must be half a dozen or more clubs who would want Tom in their team. And that includes teams that have a better chance of staying up than Villa

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Papabendi
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Papabendi » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:30 am

feels like the right time if he wants to go - and lets not forget - a few mistakes had started to creep in.

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby jedi_master » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:36 am

Love Tom, been outstanding for us, and his leadership saved us from relegation alongside McNeil after we finally dropped Hart, in my opinion.

HOWEVER,

Pope, for me, is a better keeper (caveat - if he is as good as he was two seasons ago), and, crucially, has signed a long term deal and in his mid twenties. If we could get 12-15m for Tom, I would let him go. He deserves to be a Number 1 somewhere and owes us nothing after the service he has given us. If we can get a big fee in for him when he is pushing 34, and spend that cash on a first 11 quality central midfielder, I think I might be tempted to part ways.

Sad though, just because of what he has done for us - but business wise, it does make sense.
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby claretcarrot93 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:38 am

superdimitri wrote:I don't understand how people rate coming for crosses so important. If teams know we play pope they will just drill or whip crosses in instead of float them.

The games we struggle in have not been down to not playing Pope so he can come for crosses.

I worry if we lose Heaton that A. Pope was a one season wonder B. We can forget playing out from the back. In fact we may as well just kick it out for a throw in from goal kicks.

Anyone remember Marlon Beresford being so bad at kicking Steve Davis used to take goal kicks? Maybe that's a plan.


Why on earth would we want to play out from the back? Thats not what we do. Pope's kicking is nowhere near as bad as people make out and its not our style anyway. Dont get the big fuss about it.

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby TsarBomba » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:47 am

jedi_master wrote:Love Tom, been outstanding for us, and his leadership saved us from relegation alongside McNeil after we finally dropped Hart, in my opinion.

HOWEVER,

Pope, for me, is a better keeper (caveat - if he is as good as he was two seasons ago), and, crucially, has signed a long term deal and in his mid twenties. If we could get 12-15m for Tom, I would let him go. He deserves to be a Number 1 somewhere and owes us nothing after the service he has given us. If we can get a big fee in for him when he is pushing 34, and spend that cash on a first 11 quality central midfielder, I think I might be tempted to part ways.

Sad though, just because of what he has done for us - but business wise, it does make sense.


Bang on the money.

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby tim_noone » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:53 am

Good Luck to whoever Leaves....inc. Hart been fantastic to have em all In with a great set of Lads.

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boatshed bill
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby boatshed bill » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:58 am

claretcarrot93 wrote:Why on earth would we want to play out from the back? Thats not what we do. Pope's kicking is nowhere near as bad as people make out and its not our style anyway. Dont get the big fuss about it.


Kicking can certainly be worked on and improved. But it is a minor issue compared to making saves, which Pope does very well.

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claretcarrot93
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby claretcarrot93 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:24 am

boatshed bill wrote:Kicking can certainly be worked on and improved. But it is a minor issue compared to making saves, which Pope does very well.


Exactly. I am sure his kicking will improve as well but as long as he did what he did when we finished 7th I.E making great saves and commanding his area I aint really that assed about his kicking.

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Rileybobs
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Rileybobs » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:35 am

There’s no point pretending that Pope’s kicking isn’t an issue. It’s not necessarily goal kicks or even general distribution but he has a tendency to completely shank the ball out of play when given a back pass. Anyway, with our style of play it’s not the be-all and end-all but something he needs to work on.

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Selby Claret
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Selby Claret » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:38 am

Rileybobs wrote:There’s no point pretending that Pope’s kicking isn’t an issue. It’s not necessarily goal kicks or even general distribution but he has a tendency to completely shank the ball out of play when given a back pass. Anyway, with our style of play it’s not the be-all and end-all but something he needs to work on.


As my old coach used to say:

"They can't score from a throw in"

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Rick_Muller » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:43 am

Selby Claret wrote:As my old coach used to say:

"They can't score from a throw in"

Although technically correct, didn’t Spurs do us with a quick number last season, albeit with support from the 4th official...?

I get your point though... ;)

# 36
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby claretspice » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:44 am

In an ideal world, Hart moves on this summer and we bring in a sensible, economical third choice keeper to replace Lindegaard, and Heaton and Pope spend the first half of this season vying to be first choice. If Heaton wins that race, there's an excellent chance he'll sign a new deal - none of the press speculation gives reason to believe there's anything more to his reluctance to sign a new contract beyond his uncertainty about whether he'll be first choice beyond next season; Pope would no doubt be sold. If Pope wins the race, then Heaton can go on a free next summer with everyone's best wishes. Either way, we'd be looking for competition for the remaining keeper next summer.

Of course, this is simplistic and assumes there's nothing more going on behind the scenes, but unless Tom is really pushing for a move, I can't really see why we'd want to let him go early when he's currently the man in possession from last season and was so important to us staying up. Firmly believe that it's vital for clubs like ours to keep the core of players who underpin the ethos that got us to the Premier League at the heart of the squad - it's very hard to maintain it when there's no-one left who remembers how we got here in the first place. That's why keeping the likes of Tom and Ben Mee as long as possible is absolutely crucial.

Does look as though a lot of the speculation is overheated, given that I've read quotes from Dyche this morning confirming Heaton's in Portugal.
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby ClaretTony » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:11 am

Image

Tom Heaton is very definitely in Portugal, or was yesterday when they were training, as seen above.

Dyche has said this morning: ""There is nothing in it, there has been no contact with me. There has been rumours and rumours aplenty this summer and we understand why that is, but we have got a group of players we believe in and we always seemingly over the last few years have interest in one player or another but there is certainly nothing serious our end. Tom is here with us as normal."
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Rileybobs » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:15 am

Looks like that photo was taken in the car park at Faro Airport to me. You can also see that Heaton is looking around for the Aston Villa representative who agreed to meet him at the tobacco stall next to the taxi rank.

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BFC123
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby BFC123 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:19 am

Club just posted a couple of videos of the keepers training and he’s in the background of both of them, so he’s definitely still there.

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby FactualFrank » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:26 am

Something tells me that Heaton is in Portugal.

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby AlargeClaret » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:31 am

claretcarrot93 wrote:Exactly. I am sure his kicking will improve as well but as long as he did what he did when we finished 7th I.E making great saves and commanding his area I aint really that assed about his kicking.


Likewise , though footwork is becoming an absolute prerequisite in the modern game and pretty much all of the cat 1 and 2 academies released keepers at the end of this season from u12 up if the footwork wasn’t “ there” . You have the Italian and Spanish leagues often “ choosing “keepers from the 13-16 yr old outfield “ weaker” academy players
Off the top of my head the likes of Ederson , de Gea, Buffon,Stegen even the legendary Jorge Campos played outfield as teenagers .

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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Spijed » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:43 am

With Pope in goal when we finished 7th we had a defensive record to rival the very best clubs in the Premier league, that's how good we were!

Going into the Arsenal game at the Emirates, where we didn't even try, only Man U & Man City had conceded less beforehand.

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Wile E Coyote
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Wile E Coyote » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:44 am

Rileybobs wrote:There’s no point pretending that Pope’s kicking isn’t an issue. It’s not necessarily goal kicks or even general distribution but he has a tendency to completely shank the ball out of play when given a back pass. Anyway, with our style of play it’s not the be-all and end-all but something he needs to work on.


every keeper does this Rileybobs, granted you might have seen pope do it more often than heaton, but its not that big a deal. His abilities within his area are key, and he is exceptionally good.

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Down_Rover
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Down_Rover » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:06 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:Likewise , though footwork is becoming an absolute prerequisite in the modern game and pretty much all of the cat 1 and 2 academies released keepers at the end of this season from u12 up if the footwork wasn’t “ there” . You have the Italian and Spanish leagues often “ choosing “keepers from the 13-16 yr old outfield “ weaker” academy players
Off the top of my head the likes of Ederson , de Gea, Buffon,Stegen even the legendary Jorge Campos played outfield as teenagers .


But we are Burnley. It needs defenders to play the ball out too.

Perhaps Tarks and Mee should go on the same course as Pope to learn how to play out.

Until they have, Hoof please!

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summitclaret
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby summitclaret » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:12 pm

Down_Rover wrote:But we are Burnley. It needs defenders to play the ball out too.

Perhaps Tarks and Mee should go on the same course as Pope to learn how to play out.

Until they have, Hoof please!


Can't agree re Tarks. Apart from the odd over hit long pass, his distribution is better than any central defender we have had for ages, apart from Keane. Don't stop trying it Tarks.

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Spijed
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Spijed » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:16 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:Likewise , though footwork is becoming an absolute prerequisite in the modern game and pretty much all of the cat 1 and 2 academies released keepers at the end of this season from u12 up if the footwork wasn’t “ there” . You have the Italian and Spanish leagues often “ choosing “keepers from the 13-16 yr old outfield “ weaker” academy players
Off the top of my head the likes of Ederson , de Gea, Buffon,Stegen even the legendary Jorge Campos played outfield as teenagers .


That's the modern game. Attacking defenders no longer have to be that good at defending and likewise with goalkeepers. Being a sweeper-keeper is far more important than purely being a good goalkeeper!

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Rick_Muller
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Rick_Muller » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:28 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Something tells me that Heaton is in Portugal.

I think you're right Frank, he is there and not at the Belfry as reported yesterday...

# 48
AlargeClaret
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby AlargeClaret » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:31 pm

Hart ( who is very very sound with his feet) in fact I don’t think he put a “foot”wrong as keeper for us ? was moved aside for the less effective ( imo) Bravo . Though a top top keeper himself he was caught out a few times being over fancy with his feet . Tom has the best balance of “ decent” feet and high class hands

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superdimitri
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby superdimitri » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:33 pm

The reason we need to play out the back is because we need to be able to keep the ball.

Its our biggest weakness, hindrance if you like.

To play better football we need to get the ball to begin with and bring it to teams, we are not going to do that with Pope in goal because 1. He struggles to string a pass or throw together from the back and 2. He cannot kick accurately enough for a target man to bring the ball down.

I'm not saying I expect him to act like Ederson or for us to play like Man City, but if we are going to be a step up from the best of the rest again we really need to work on being able to to keep the ball and take the pressure off our defence rather than being balls to to the wall for periods of the game where we inevitably concede.

You can't score directly from a throw in, but you can score indirectly from one. What you can't do is score when you don't have the ball to begin with.

Also, if Heaton leaves who is going to replace him as captain? We have plenty of good characters in the squad but no born leaders. Mee as captain was as much a problem in the first part of last season as Hart in goal.

Its all fine and dandy to keep the claret specs on and think about 17-18 but much the same as Leicester when they won the league. Everything works out well when everything goes for you, but its when you get kicked in teeth and need to get back up that matters.

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Rileybobs
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Re: Tom Heaton

Postby Rileybobs » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:34 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:every keeper does this Rileybobs, granted you might have seen pope do it more often than heaton, but its not that big a deal. His abilities within his area are key, and he is exceptionally good.


I disagree. Some keepers are very good at first time clearances from passbacks. Equally, accurate distribution to our forwards is an important consideration in our system. Again, it’s not the be-all and end-all but without doubt a factor to consider.
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