Tom Heaton

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:37 pm

superdimitri wrote:The reason we need to play out the back is because we need to be able to keep the ball.

Its our biggest weakness, hindrance if you like.

To play better football we need to get the ball to begin with and bring it to teams, we are not going to do that with Pope in goal because 1. He struggles to string a pass or throw together from the back and 2. He cannot kick accurately enough for a target man to bring the ball down.

I'm not saying I expect him to act like Ederson or for us to play like Man City, but if we are going to be a step up from the best of the rest again we really need to work on being able to to keep the ball and take the pressure off our defence rather than being balls to to the wall for periods of the game where we inevitably concede.

You can't score directly from a throw in, but you can score indirectly from one. What you can't do is score when you don't have the ball to begin with.

Also, if Heaton leaves who is going to replace him as captain? We have plenty of good characters in the squad but no born leaders. Mee as captain was as much a problem in the first part of last season as Hart in goal.

Its all fine and dandy to keep the claret specs on and think about 17-18 but much the same as Leicester when they won the league. Everything works out well when everything goes for you, but its when you get kicked in teeth and need to get back up that matters.

Who was captain when Heaton was injured? The season we finished 7th. I can't remember.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:37 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:every keeper does this Rileybobs, granted you might have seen pope do it more often than heaton, but its not that big a deal. His abilities within his area are key, and he is exceptionally good.

Spot on
Pope’s kicking is not the best but I can’t remember his kicking ever costing us a goal...whereas I can think of many mistakes made by all these sweeper keepers that have cost goals.
Bravo was good with the ball at his feet wasn’t he ? - that’s why Pep got rid of Hart and spent £30m on him. What a pity he couldn’t stop any shots going in.

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:56 pm

no bids in .fake news based on fact he is still negotiating with us

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:59 pm

NL Claret wrote:Who was captain when Heaton was injured? The season we finished 7th. I can't remember.

Ben Mee

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:06 pm

jedi_master wrote:Love Tom, been outstanding for us, and his leadership saved us from relegation alongside McNeil after we finally dropped Hart, in my opinion.

HOWEVER,

Pope, for me, is a better keeper (caveat - if he is as good as he was two seasons ago), and, crucially, has signed a long term deal and in his mid twenties. If we could get 12-15m for Tom, I would let him go. He deserves to be a Number 1 somewhere and owes us nothing after the service he has given us. If we can get a big fee in for him when he is pushing 34, and spend that cash on a first 11 quality central midfielder, I think I might be tempted to part ways.

Sad though, just because of what he has done for us - but business wise, it does make sense.

Disagree with none of this I do

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:13 pm

So he’s not going anywhere after all that.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:44 pm

Without reading the entire thread, I find it remarkable how many posters are so sure that Heaton is so easily replaceable by Nick Pope.

While I am not convinced GK was THE main cause of our issues last season, one thing is clear - our form since Heaton returned was incredible. And he has been Mr Consistent the entire time he has been here.

He is our leader
Our number 1
He knows the club inside out
He knows the team and the system inside out
The players, the manager and the fans trust and love him

Pope had a great season no doubt. But in my eyes the shirt is Heatons until he loses it.

Forget new contracts and money we could get for him. He has earnt the right to see out hs contract if he so wishes. It works both ways does that.

For me he starts next season as number 1. And Pope challenges him. Come next summer we thank Tom and if he wants to move on a bosman Nick Pope then steps in.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:37 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:And Pope challenges him. Come next summer we thank Tom and if he wants to move on a bosman Nick Pope then steps in.

A reserve goalkeeper rarely challenges the number one, so if Heaton stays and plays well Pope will be on the bench all season apart from just the two cup games!

I can't see Pope being happy with that!

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:48 pm

Spijed wrote:A reserve goalkeeper rarely challenges the number one, so if Heaton stays and plays well Pope will be on the bench all season apart from just the two cup games!

I can't see Pope being happy with that!

'tough at the top !!

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:50 pm

It's the European Championships next summer, no way will either Pope or Heaton want to be backup for the entire season.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:52 pm

Spijed wrote:A reserve goalkeeper rarely challenges the number one, so if Heaton stays and plays well Pope will be on the bench all season apart from just the two cup games!

I can't see Pope being happy with that!

Well boo hoo. We can only play one goalkeeper so the other goalkeepers have to accept that they will only play if they show better form than the current number one. I don’t understand why people are making such an issue over having decent competition for places.

Nick Pope was signed by Burnley from relative obscurity and played a full season for us, winning an England cap in the process, before suffering an injury. He is not owed anything. Like the rest of our players, Heaton included, they have to prove that they deserve a place in the starting 11.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:54 pm

Murger wrote:It's the European Championships next summer, no way will either Pope or Heaton want to be backup for the entire season.

Which is why both goalkeepers, if they had anything about them, would be knuckling down to prove that they deserve a place in our starting eleven and a place in England’s squad.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:55 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Which is why both goalkeepers, if they had anything about them, would be knuckling down to prove that they deserve a place in our starting eleven and a place in England’s squad.

If the option is there to be first choice at another club, it's a no brainer.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:01 pm

Murger wrote:If the option is there to be first choice at another club, it's a no brainer.

It really isn’t a no-brainer. For a start, last time I checked Heaton was our number one. What’s changed? Secondly, Heaton won’t be guaranteed to have the number one jersey to keep at any other club in the same way that he doesn’t here.

If he moves I’m pretty confident it would be down to length and terms of contract offered rather than any guarantee of starting games.

Stockbrokerbelt · Post by **Stockbrokerbelt** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:07 pm

Heaton trusts Dyche, Dyche trusts Heaton, they both know the club & both appear to be down to earth nice guys, like Mee Heaton has to negotiate at 33 its likely to be his last pay day, expect a deal to be struck & I think we are likely to see both Heaton & Pope between the sticks this season.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:08 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Which is why both goalkeepers, if they had anything about them, would be knuckling down to prove that they deserve a place in our starting eleven and a place in England’s squad.

But as soon as we play the first game the one on the bench knows their season is effectively over, barring any major injuries or cock-ups by the other keeper.

Outfield players know that they have chance of getting on as a sub. That never happens in the number one spot.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:16 pm

If Heaton starts the season, that'll be season over for Pope, unless we start conceding a silly amount of goals. They'll both want to be the England squad.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:16 pm

: image.jpeg (55.87 KiB) Viewed 5647 times

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:34 pm

Stockbrokerbelt wrote:Heaton trusts Dyche, Dyche trusts Heaton, they both know the club & both appear to be down to earth nice guys

You would struggle to find a nicer guy in football than Tom Heaton.

Fretters · Post by **Fretters** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:39 pm

Steve1956 wrote:
image.jpeg

Love it!

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:56 pm

Spijed wrote:But as soon as we play the first game the one on the bench knows their season is effectively over, barring any major injuries or cock-ups by the other keeper.

Outfield players know that they have chance of getting on as a sub. That never happens in the number one spot.

You're right there, Spijed,and goalkeepers never get injured....

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:06 pm

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/burnl ... condition/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:09 pm

Bosscat wrote:https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/burnl ... condition/

While a signing like that would make lots of sense, losing 2 senior, talented goalkeepers and starting the season with a lot of inexperience in such a crucial position would be madness imo.

Marney&Mee · Post by **Marney&Mee** » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:15 pm

Stockbrokerbelt wrote:Heaton trusts Dyche, Dyche trusts Heaton, they both know the club & both appear to be down to earth nice guys, like Mee Heaton has to negotiate at 33 its likely to be his last pay day, expect a deal to be struck & I think we are likely to see both Heaton & Pope between the sticks this season.

Not sure we’ll get away with that SBB...

No Ney Never · Post by **No Ney Never** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:32 am

Back in the BBC gossip column today.
Burnley are looking for 12m for Heaton, 8m more than Villa had bid.
Are they having a laugh, offering only 4m for Heats? I thought we started low in negotiations!

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:51 am

Assuming Villa offered £4m by email for Heaton I hope the club wouldn't have even responded with a reply, it's an insult.

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:01 am

It's more than an insult with the money they've been slashing out
We shouldn't even be bothered in any negotiations with an offer like that
How many goal keepers who are in the England set up play premier league football would be in that bracket proper trying it on there

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:03 am

beddie wrote:Assuming Villa offered £4m by email for Heaton I hope the club wouldn't have even responded with a reply, it's an insult.

Should have replied with a virus attached!

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:05 am

Its ok if we ever want to sign one of their players we'll do the same except we are the experts in derisory offers for players so they won't know whats hit them

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:25 am

Probably **** off we have got Lowton and Westwood
I bet they wish they still had them

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:45 am

beddie wrote:Assuming Villa offered £4m by email for Heaton I hope the club wouldn't have even responded with a reply, it's an insult.

JUNK MAIL!

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:48 am

beddie wrote:Assuming Villa offered £4m by email for Heaton I hope the club wouldn't have even responded with a reply, it's an insult.

Don’t be ridiculous.

All offers are made by fax.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:49 am

£4 million ! They must think we are all thick up north. That makes our offers for players look extremely generous.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:51 am

4m sounds like a decent loan fee for Pope for the season. Job done

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:40 pm

i posted this elsewhere but.........according to my Villa supporting mate the news down there is we've asked for 12 million

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:42 pm

No Ney Never wrote:Back in the BBC gossip column today.
Burnley are looking for 12m for Heaton, 8m more than Villa had bid.
Are they having a laugh, offering only 4m for Heats? I thought we started low in negotiations!

Our recruitments that thick we probably put that offer in ourselves

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:43 pm

Dyched wrote:Our recruitments that thick we probably put that offer in ourselves

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:08 pm

£12m is still an insult

Turftalkers mentor · Post by **Turftalkers mentor** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:30 pm

Every now and again football clubs make mistakes that later on it becomes apparent the gravity of the mistake. Letting Tom Heaton go will fall into this category, At 33 he has at least another 4 years in him he is by far the best keeper we have ,he is also pivotal in organising the team . The club should increase the length of contract offered to him . Nick Pope was and is an adequate deputy when required .

Longsider · Post by **Longsider** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Villa increasing their bid

https://www.footballinsider247.com/excl ... -the-move/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:46 pm

Turftalkers mentor wrote:Every now and again football clubs make mistakes that later on it becomes apparent the gravity of the mistake. Letting Tom Heaton go will fall into this category, At 33 he has at least another 4 years in him he is by far the best keeper we have ,he is also pivotal in organising the team . The club should increase the length of contract offered to him . Nick Pope was and is an adequate deputy when required .

But Pope will want to leave. He knows his season is over if he's on the bench for the first game.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:11 pm

Let's hope it's done sooner rather than later for Both ourselves and Tom.

We can all get on with the new season then, and we can get on with getting a new 3rd choice ( not saying Tom was, but Legzdins isnt trusted to be 3rd choice )

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:30 pm

Im amazed that we can't sort a deal out that suits both parties in order to keep a top keeper like Tom. Even at the figure quoted of £12m in the current climate it's not enough. I'm stunned to be honest.

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:38 pm

Selling Tom would -

Invalidate the argument that "impact on the dressing room" is super important. Anyone that thinks Tom would place wanting to play above being professional ( to the extent that he would become a malignant influence ) is obviously unaware of his proven character.

Invalidate the argument that "keeping our best players" is super important. A case can't be made to support the claim that holding onto our existing players is as important as bringing in new players if we let our Captain leave when we don't desperately need the piddling amount that is being quoted.

Improve a direct competitor enormously. Clubs are generally reluctant to sell players to the teams that they could be fighting against to secure their Premier League status. That goes for any player, never mind someone of Tom's character and ability.

Ignore the fact that we are dancing on a knife edge. In the event of relegation I would say that Tom could be the most likely of our three keepers to stay ( I can still recall the look of immense pride and joy he had on his face when he was waiting to step back onto the pitch at Christmas ).

If we did suffer the drop down Hart would probably scoot off to China or Inter Miami, the vultures would circle around Pope making their offers and without Tom we would only have Legzdins ( if he signs a new contract ). I'm not including Peacock Farrell in my "worst case scenario", because that would be taking things a bit too far.

If the point of contention is the length of contract offered then we need to wake up. The length of a Keepers career is a lot longer than other players. At 33 Tom could have another 2 or 3 big contracts ahead of him. In terms of playing ability he is our best overall keeper and if we did offer him only 1 year it is a disgrace or an obvious ploy to push him out.

Besides, what would we spend the money on ? So far we have spent a million or so on Pieters and £10m on Jay ( less the money we got for Sam ). Arguably, we only really need to add a quality central midfielder, which should be well within our means.

Unless we are looking to spend a big amount on players we don't urgently need any money that we might get for Tom would just go into the dry powder room, to be spent at a later date, possibly on a squad overhaul when the bulk of our squad leaves us at the same time ( similar ages and remaining contract lengths ).

Fingers crossed that this is all paper talk and holding back good news for a final flourish of positivity at the end of the window.

Denying Villa, or maybe Sheffield, a top class keeper is worth far more to us than 12m. Sorry Joe, last in first out, even if it is on a free transfer ( although I would expect us to negotiate some kind of fee for a player of his ability ).

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:48 pm

It seems to boil down to who is the better keeper - Heaton or Pope as we basically can't keep both?

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:26 pm

Spijed wrote:It seems to boil down to who is the better keeper - Heaton or Pope as we basically can't keep both?

Why not?

We lost Nick to injury last season and needed Tom or Joe. In hindsight Lindegaard could have filled in for Tom until he was fit and we would have been no worse off.

The season before we lost Tom to injury and we needed Nick.

I would say that we can't afford to have fewer than two top quality keepers. Tom and Nick have proven themselves worthy of the shirt ( Joe did very well for us ). I can't see why we should guarantee either of them a full season at the expense of the others.

Sharing the available playing opportunities isn't an option for the majority of clubs, because they usually have one keeper who is better than the others. That doesn't apply to us.

The notion of earning and keeping the shirt doesn't really apply to us either, because Tom and Nick have proven themselves to be worthy over the course of a full season between the sticks ( and Joe is working hard on it ). We could easily swap and change a bit over the course of the season to give two keepers playing time.

If Tom and Joe leave us and anything happens to Nick were would that leave us?

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:42 pm

All change in our good buddy group!

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:45 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:Why not?

We lost Nick to injury last season and needed Tom or Joe. In hindsight Lindegaard could have filled in for Tom until he was fit and we would have been no worse off.

The season before we lost Tom to injury and we needed Nick.

I would say that we can't afford to have fewer than two top quality keepers. Tom and Nick have proven themselves worthy of the shirt ( Joe did very well for us ). I can't see why we should guarantee either of them a full season at the expense of the others.

Sharing the available playing opportunities isn't an option for the majority of clubs, because they usually have one keeper who is better than the others. That doesn't apply to us.

The notion of earning and keeping the shirt doesn't really apply to us either, because Tom and Nick have proven themselves to be worthy over the course of a full season between the sticks ( and Joe is working hard on it ). We could easily swap and change a bit over the course of the season to give two keepers playing time.

If Tom and Joe leave us and anything happens to Nick were would that leave us?

So if we sign Tom for three seasons, as some are saying, where does that leave Pope?

Do you think he'll stick around just to sit on the bench all season?

That'll be two years of his career completely down the pan, and then what for his future?