I just can't see him accepting being 4th choice striker. I wanted it to work but it hasn't so its time to end a failed experiment

ZizkovClaret wrote:I just can't see him accepting being 4th choice striker. I wanted it to work but it hasn't so its time to end a failed experiment

He spent the whole of last season as 4th choice striker.

martin_p wrote:He spent the whole of last season as 4th choice striker.

2nd half wasnt expected though, i expect him not to accept it this season again

We need 4 strikers vying for 2 places

Surely Jay is Sam's replacement not an addition to the squad. We only have a squad of 20 plus 3 keepers and McNeil with these two signings so if there are no leavers and we exclude Ageyi and Dunne from our 25 there is only room for two more additions of players over 21 years of age on Jan 1st 2019.

Leeds were interested weren't they,if we can recoup most of our £11 million outlay i'd let him go,the lad might as well be playing regular games,even if it's at Championship level,i can't see him getting into the side in any of the wide positions now either,we're well stocked in that area now Jay's been confirmed.

mdd2 wrote:Surely Jay is Sam's replacement not an addition to the squad. We only have a squad of 20 plus 3 keepers and McNeil with these two signings so if there are no leavers and we exclude Ageyi and Dunne from our 25 there is only room for two more additions of players over 21 years of age on Jan 1st 2019.

I'm sure Dyche wants 4 strikers, im just not convinced Vydra will want to be that 4th one

ZizkovClaret wrote:I just can't see him accepting being 4th choice striker. I wanted it to work but it hasn't so its time to end a failed experiment

With it looking like Crouch is running out of time to decide, and Jay Rod being able to play as a ten, or even attacking midfield. I actually think Vydra will fancy playing alongside JR rather than Ash or Wood.

4 forwards and a youth is ideal.

ZizkovClaret wrote:I'm sure Dyche wants 4 strikers, im just not convinced Vydra will want to be that 4th one

He's been wanting out since January but he's under contract, so it's up to Dyche what he wants to do.

Quickenthetempo wrote:He's been wanting out since January but he's under contract, so it's up to Dyche what he wants to do.

I dont think modern football works like that tbh. Vydra has form for being a bad apple if he's not getting game time so wouldnt be inadvisable to let him go for the right money.

Part of me wonders if the Jansson sale at Leeds could be partly to fund a bid

it is up to Vydra to show he is either #1 or #2. I don't see why he starts the season in any set position.

ZizkovClaret wrote:I dont think modern football works like that tbh. Vydra has form for being a bad apple if he's not getting game time so wouldnt be inadvisable to let him go for the right money.

Part of me wonders if the Jansson sale at Leeds could be partly to fund a bid

He's never been in a Sean Dyche headlock before though has he.

ZizkovClaret wrote:I just can't see him accepting being 4th choice striker. I wanted it to work but it hasn't so its time to end a failed experiment

Only Zikov. #obsessed

I'm told it is unlikely he'll be leaving - we needed a striker to, in effect, replace Sam Vokes.

All it takes is vydra to have a good pre season and he may give him a run

Only takes barnes or wood to get injured in the warm up games

ClaretTony wrote:I'm told it is unlikely he'll be leaving

So we've now got our four strikers sorted.

Good stuff!

ZizkovClaret wrote:Vydra has form for being a bad apple if he's not getting game time so wouldnt be inadvisable to let him go for the right money.

Not from what I'm told

I'd sooner keep Vydra than not and if we can make it work it will allow more options.

ZizkovClaret wrote:I just can't see him accepting being 4th choice striker. I wanted it to work but it hasn't so its time to end a failed experiment

How can an experiment be *'failed' when it hasn't been carried out? Vydra got ridiculously little time on the pitch despite not exactly disgracing himself when he was used. If I was him I'd be itching to get away - it's a year of his life he won't get back. One can only assume that his lack of use may be down to some personal difficulties between him and Dyche. I suppose we will never know.




*Strictly speaking there is no such thing as a failed experiment. Scientifically an experiment is carried out to observe the results, not to pre-judge them. Even when testing a theory it should not be done to try to prove someone right, it should be done with a completely open mind, otherwise you may inadvertantly (or otherwise) introduce factors that affect the result.

Unfortunately for Vydra he is even less likely to see any action now. May as well let the lad go and keep Wells as 4th choice.

houseboy wrote:How can an experiment be *'failed' when it hasn't been carried out? Vydra got ridiculously little time on the pitch despite not exactly disgracing himself when he was used. If I was him I'd be itching to get away - it's a year of his life he won't get back. One can only assume that his lack of use may be down to some personal difficulties between him and Dyche. I suppose we will never know.




*Strictly speaking there is no such thing as a failed experiment. Scientifically an experiment is carried out to observe the results, not to pre-judge them. Even when testing a theory it should not be done to try to prove someone right, it should be done with a completely open mind, otherwise you may inadvertantly (or otherwise) introduce factors that affect the result.

I would argue the experiment was on Vydra's part, having a crack at a PL club rather than being 1st or 2nd choice for a Championship side

ZizkovClaret wrote:I would argue the experiment was on Vydra's part, having a crack at a PL club rather than being 1st or 2nd choice for a Championship side

I think you are right in that respect but I can't help but wonder (probably along with 90% of other Clarets) what he might have done given a run in the team. One thing is for sure, if he does leave he would go with no ill will from the fans because he did nothing wrong. He never got the chance to fail.

houseboy wrote:How can an experiment be *'failed' when it hasn't been carried out? Vydra got ridiculously little time on the pitch despite not exactly disgracing himself when he was used. If I was him I'd be itching to get away - it's a year of his life he won't get back. One can only assume that his lack of use may be down to some personal difficulties between him and Dyche. I suppose we will never know.




*Strictly speaking there is no such thing as a failed experiment. Scientifically an experiment is carried out to observe the results, not to pre-judge them. Even when testing a theory it should not be done to try to prove someone right, it should be done with a completely open mind, otherwise you may inadvertantly (or otherwise) introduce factors that affect the result.

I must applaud the objective and logical nature of your footnote regarding scientific experiments. On an internet forum however it represents a complete waste of several hundred keystrokes since half the readers can't understand it and most of the other half don't want to. And I say this with 125% certainty. FACT

I would imagine Wells will be the first out of the door

jrgbfc wrote:Unfortunately for Vydra he is even less likely to see any action now. May as well let the lad go and keep Wells as 4th choice.

Unfortunately I have to agree. If we keep Wells though we need to keep him in the club, not out on loan, because he now needs to be around Jay, Barnes and Wood in training and maybe given game time as a sub occasionally, he can't help but learn from these 3 now surely. The only down side for him though is unless we get a couple of bad injuries it is difficult seeing him getting much time on the pitch with those three now.

Vydra will be giving it ago to try and break through this season
With Crouch most likely to continue his career or what ever he decides to do elsewhere
Rodriguez signing is to fill in the gap that selling Vokes left
Same as Pieters as filled the gap that Ward as left so we have filled the gaps and need that competitive edge with these players to push what we have
4 strikers is essential in this league it's just where Wells is going to fit in he'll be the one to readjust things I would of thought
Vydra could have a major part to play this season

Going off past form Dyche will give Vydra a chance and stick Jay on the bench until he gets up to speed.

Keane, Tarkowski, Ward, and to an extent Westwood all bided their time when joining, and they didn’t turn out to be bad servants to the club.

Vydra will have a full pre-season to knuckle down and show what he’s about, including more game time in friendlies which can only be a good thing. He has , as others have in the past, had to adapt and learn the way we operate, this season will make or break him in terms of playing at Premier League level , let’s hope he turns out like said players I mentioned at the beginning .

And I suspect Wells will be sold on. He simply don’t good enough for this level

keith1879 wrote:I must applaud the objective and logical nature of your footnote regarding scientific experiments. On an internet forum however it represents a complete waste of several hundred keystrokes since half the readers can't understand it and most of the other half don't want to. And I say this with 125% certainty. FACT

I am either guilty of overwhelming pedantry or crippling boredom and to be honest I don't know myself which it is. My logical pedantry usually surfaces when I am bored half to death so the conclusion must be that I am bored. Or not.

What happens if your are bored half to death...twice?

It appears that a lot of our fans struggle with the concept of a squad. I know that historically we haven’t been blessed with a squad full of talent but we’re now playing in one of the world’s best leagues and it’s imperative that we have strong competition for each position.

If Vydra wants regular game time then he needs to either prove himself to the coaching staff or request a transfer. If he chooses the latter and our club agrees he will almost certainly drop down a division and more than likely have to take a wage cut. That’s his choice.

It seems that whenever we have more than one decent player for a single position it scrambles the brains of a number of posters on here.

Hedontplayforyou wrote:Keane, Tarkowski, Ward, and to an extent Westwood all bided their time when joining, and they didn’t turn out to be bad servants to the club.

Vydra will have a full pre-season to knuckle down and show what he’s about, including more game time in friendlies which can only be a good thing. He has , as others have in the past, had to adapt and learn the way we operate, this season will make or break him in terms of playing at Premier League level , let’s hope he turns out like said players I mentioned at the beginning .

And I suspect Wells will be sold on. He simply don’t good enough for this level

It's a hard call given the lack of time either player has seen but I would personally go with keeping Vydra because he at least has shone brightly at Championship level. But as you rightly say, it's down to him. Having 4 strikers of reasonable quality is a luxury I can't remember us having in many a long year. Now just one decent creative midfielder (and hoping we keep the players we've got) and I think we'll be in for a decent (non-struggling) season. The main thing I think will be keeping Tarks and Heaton.

Vydra could be very useful playing just behind our front 2. Clearly has some quality but maybe a bit lightweight to play as a pure striker. Gonna depend on what formation we will be playing . 4-3-1-2 or 4-4-2 as normal

We never had the team to play to Vydra's strength last season. The addition of Jay will help him, because although JayRod can play the striker role, he has so much more about him. We still need that centre mid who can thread a ball forward, and if we get one, or SD stays injury free, we could see a big change in style of play next season. Sean showed early doors that he wanted to play more 'football', sadly the results didn't come and we reverted to type, or back to our core strengths. If we are successful it will open up the door to changing the way we play, depending on who the opposition is, and give players a rest when they need it.
One centre mid, that's all we need, and it will have been an excellent window. So I hope Vydra stays, and shows all the promise that we only saw in glimpses last season.

We now have some good variation in terms of playing style and I think all our strikers are premier league quality. If Vydra stays I think we may be able to mix the football up this season.

As other posters have said we tried the better football early last season but the main problem was the players out of form, lacking confidence and adapting from a strange pre season. This season there are no pre season issues and hopefully we will hit the ground running. It’s all good news so far.

northernpowerhouse wrote:Going off past form Dyche will give Vydra a chance and stick Jay on the bench until he gets up to speed.

Jay is getting a full Dyche pre-season unlike others in the past... I think you will find he will be up to speed very quickly compared to people that sign in August at the end of the Window

houseboy wrote:I am either guilty of overwhelming pedantry or crippling boredom and to be honest I don't know myself which it is. My logical pedantry usually surfaces when I am bored half to death so the conclusion must be that I am bored. Or not.

What happens if your are bored half to death...twice?

I knew what you meant house m8

Think JayRod's signing is a good thing for Vydra. It will certainly increase our options. Like quite a few others I don't think for a moment Vydra will leave.

I now think we have 4 strikers where any combination can work depending on the opposition. Just worried that SD won't adapt when needed. Any thoughts ??

Rileybobs wrote:It appears that a lot of our fans struggle with the concept of a squad. I know that historically we haven’t been blessed with a squad full of talent but we’re now playing in one of the world’s best leagues and it’s imperative that we have strong competition for each position.

If Vydra wants regular game time then he needs to either prove himself to the coaching staff or request a transfer. If he chooses the latter and our club agrees he will almost certainly drop down a division and more than likely have to take a wage cut. That’s his choice.

It seems that whenever we have more than one decent player for a single position it scrambles the brains of a number of posters on here.

Most managers don't stick with the same starting XI for weeks on end though. If you're out of the team under Dyche it's incredibly hard to work your way in.

LongSider75 wrote:I now think we have 4 strikers where any combination can work depending on the opposition. Just worried that SD won't adapt when needed. Any thoughts ??

Thoughts? I’ve learned not to worry about anything the great man does.

jrgbfc wrote:Most managers don't stick with the same starting XI for weeks on end though. If you're out of the team under Dyche it's incredibly hard to work your way in.

True enough, but when you prove yourself in Dyche’s starting 11 you are given every chance to retain your place.

If Vydra couldn't get off the bench ahead of Crouch against Leicester in a game desperately crying out for pace then I struggle to see when he will get played.

I see Vydra as similar in style and ability to Jay, personally, I would have preferred us to have not gone for Jay, but instead gone for a younger pacey Striker, to add another dimension to our attacking bow.

But as we've now got Jay, Vydra most likely behind him in the pecking order and similar in style, seems surplus to requirements to me.

SonofPog wrote:I see Vydra as similar in style and ability to Jay, personally, I would have preferred us to have not gone for Jay, but instead gone for a younger pacey Striker, to add another dimension to our attacking bow.

But as we've now got Jay, Vydra most likely behind him in the pecking order and similar in style, seems surplus to requirements to me.

What is it that you see in Vydra and Rodriguez’s style that you think is similar? I don’t see many similarities myself.

I'm assuming they're both be playing that "in the hole" floaty creative Number 10 role Riley. (Not a position or role we often adopt.)

jrgbfc wrote:Unfortunately for Vydra he is even less likely to see any action now. May as well let the lad go and keep Wells as 4th choice.

My thoughts also, makes the most financial sense.

Vegas Claret wrote:I would imagine Wells will be the first out of the door

Agreed. Nahki has made his thoughts and aspirations regarding his future at Burnley very clear.

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/fo ... e-16523375" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whether he spends the coming season competing for a spot on the bench as our fifth option or out on loan I would say that he is very unlikely to sign a new contract with us. That means he will probably leave on a free transfer at the end of the season

The net result is that if we don't move him on in this window we will lose out on getting any money for him and he could be set for a miserable season if a loan doesn't materialise.

What is he worth in today's market, 5-6m ?

At the start of the window, probably, but it might be a lot less after the arrival of Jay. Every other club will be aware of the situation which could affect what they are willing to pay us now.

ZizkovClaret wrote:I just can't see him accepting being 4th choice striker. I wanted it to work but it hasn't so its time to end a failed experiment

I do hope so

SonofPog wrote:I'm assuming they're both be playing that "in the hole" floaty creative Number 10 role Riley. (Not a position or role we often adopt.)

Fair enough in the position they may occupy on the pitch but I don’t think their styles are too comparable. I’m not sure exactly how suited Vydra is to the number 10 role at this level either. His touch doesn’t seem great and he’s pretty lightweight.