BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

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BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Clarets4me » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:06 pm

Some shocking revelations ... any thoughts ?

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:09 pm

A truly disgusting bunch of people. Sooner Corbyn and his cronies are out of the Labour Party the better.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby elwaclaret » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:10 pm

Clarets4me wrote:Some shocking revelations ... any thoughts ?


The Labour Party is in danger of becoming irrelevant, and will be lucky to survive as one party. If they push for an election they must be dreaming, they’ll do well to finish third.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby If it be your will » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:16 pm

I actually didn't watch it, but then I didn't really need to. Watching the BBC cover anything relating to Corbyn reminds of the sobbing boy in the audience when Homer Simpson is beating Hamburgler to a pulp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcZzlPGnKdU

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby South West Claret. » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:38 pm

Shocking revelations? Like what?

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Clarets4me » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:52 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Shocking revelations? Like what?


Did you watch the programme ?

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Burnley Ace » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:02 pm

There are more votes to be won in the Muslim block than the Jewish, there's no need to for Labour to pander to the Jewish vote so they can let their anti Israel views spew forth.
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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby fidelcastro » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:46 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:There are more votes to be won in the Muslim block than the Jewish, there's no need to for Labour to pander to the Jewish vote so they can let their anti Israel views spew forth.


Being anti-Israel and being anti-semitic are two completely different things.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Clarets4me » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:51 pm

fidelcastro wrote:Being anti-Israel and being anti-semitic are two completely different things.


That was made very clear in the programme, it's far from the issue ....

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby fidelcastro » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:53 pm

Clarets4me wrote:That was made very clear in the programme, it's far from the issue ....


It's clear that the Blarites in the Labour Party, who never wanted Corbyn as leader in the first place, won't make a distinction between the two.

Funny that (and not in a ha ha way).

:roll:

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Rowls » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:47 am

*** Hi mods - can we possibly get this thread merged with the current "Anti-Semitism" thread? ***

It might help keep the board a bit tidier and keep the topic to a single thread.

Thanks

Rowls

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Burnley Ace » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:50 am

fidelcastro wrote:Being anti-Israel and being anti-semitic are two completely different things.

A concept that some anti Israel protesters sometimes forget, or get confused about or perhaps, in their enthusiasm, allow to spill over.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby South West Claret. » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:55 pm

Clarets4me wrote:Did you watch the programme ?


No I was out, what were those shock revelations.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby houseboy » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:23 pm

fidelcastro wrote:Being anti-Israel and being anti-semitic are two completely different things.

It's no use saying this mate, I've argued this point with so many people but they don't want to know - especially if they are anti-Labour. Unfortunately many people cannot see the difference between criticising the actions of a government and criticising a race of people connected with the country (even if they don't live there).

I subscribe to an American Jewish website and it is full of criticisms of Israel and deplores it's actions. The people writing the articles are Jews - they are fine people - they want the world to take action over the crimes against Palestine. Israel is a rogue state that takes no notice of the opinions of the world and even gets support from some of it (Us and America mainly).

The line between anti-semitism and anti-Israel is very clear and the two are mutually exclusive but that line is blurred by those who are to stupid to see it or can see it clearly but ignore it in order to force an agenda of their own.
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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Stockbrokerbelt » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:42 pm

It’s a smokescreen by the right wing press to take the focus of the total chaos the Tory party is in, just look at the future leader, Dianne Abbott was slated for getting muddled on figures yet the Baffoon could not get the living wage correct, the country is heading deeper into the sh-there.
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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby South West Claret. » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:11 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Shocking revelations? Like what?



Can someone list them then please?

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby ClaretMoffitt » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:16 pm

houseboy wrote:It's no use saying this mate, I've argued this point with so many people but they don't want to know - especially if they are anti-Labour. Unfortunately many people cannot see the difference between criticising the actions of a government and criticising a race of people connected with the country (even if they don't live there).

I subscribe to an American Jewish website and it is full of criticisms of Israel and deplores it's actions. The people writing the articles are Jews - they are fine people - they want the world to take action over the crimes against Palestine. Israel is a rogue state that takes no notice of the opinions of the world and even gets support from some of it (Us and America mainly).

The line between anti-semitism and anti-Israel is very clear and the two are mutually exclusive but that line is blurred by those who are to stupid to see it or can see it clearly but ignore it in order to force an agenda of their own.


tbh I know its almost entirely bull, and the media/right wing are just hammering this antisemitism drum as a means to beat Labour and the hard left with. I think most people know this in reality, for me though I just hammer the drum not because I believe its true, but because its nice to give the left a taste of their own medicine.
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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby South West Claret. » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:58 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Can someone list them then please?


As I thought no one has or can as the allegations are just a load of covert nonsense.
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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Foulthrow » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:37 pm

This was a strange, strange programme.

Lots of what seemed very young people, seemingly in senior positions within the party, pointing out how awful the party was. How did they get in to such senior positions when they appeared to be in the early or mid 20s? It just didn't add up.

This was then interspersed with people making accusations - "I was called this..", "someone wrote to the newspaper about me and said" (newspaper article not shown), "someone made a 45 minute video about me" (no footage whatsoever of the video).

They seemed to hint towards the problem, without expressly pointing out what it was, or why it was such a problem, or why it had emerged as problem simply under Corbyn but never existed under Miliband, Brown or Blair.

Now, there might genuinely be rabid anti-semites in the Labour Party but if the Corbyn wing of the party ever wanted evidence that the 'Establishment' was "out to get them" then this programme served this purpose to a tee.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby If it be your will » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:52 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:tbh I know its almost entirely bull, and the media/right wing are just hammering this antisemitism drum as a means to beat Labour and the hard left with. I think most people know this in reality, for me though I just hammer the drum not because I believe its true, but because its nice to give the left a taste of their own medicine.

It's worked though, hasn't it? Not in the sense that anyone actually believes it, because they don't. Virtually nobody changed their vote because they were persuaded Corbyn was a racist. Yet, in spite of this, it still managed to destroy Corbyn. Fascinating when you think about it, isn't it?

And the legacy of all this is that all 5 major UK parties have (ludicrously) adopted the IHRA definition for use as a disciplinary tool - probably for ever.

If Israel did have any hand in this, they've played an absolute blinder.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Clarets4me » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:02 pm

South West Claret. wrote:As I thought no one has or can as the allegations are just a load of covert nonsense.


Mistreatment and bullying of junior staff investigating allegations, interference in the " Independent " disciplinary proceedings by the Leaders Office, forcing leaving staff to sign Non disclosure agreements, whitewash of an " internal enquiry ", led by Shami Chakrabarti ( She reported her findings in 2 months, and got the title of Baroness, on Corbyn's recommendation 8 weeks later ! ), evidence of holocaust denial, members calling for the destruction of Israel, the usual outpourings of Corbyn on Iranian state TV and him sharing platforms with terrorists ....

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby levraiclaret » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:03 pm

If it be your will wrote:It's worked though, hasn't it? Not in the sense that anyone actually believes it, because they don't.

Tom Watson appears to believe it.
Last edited by levraiclaret on Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby South West Claret. » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:10 pm

levraiclaret wrote:


Wouldn't expect anything else from him.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Wexford_Claret » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:11 pm

Clarets4me wrote:Some shocking revelations ... any thoughts ?


Yep.
It was made by a former Sun journalist who’s previously had to apologise for lying in ‘documentaries’ on Corbyn and a prominent Palestinian activist.
A number of the e-mails in last night’s ‘documentary’ were edited so as to fit the programme’s agenda.
And, of course, there’s the fact that anybody who can look at a lifelong anti-racist campaigner (who did more for the disciplinary process on anti-Jewish hatred than any other Labour leader) and call him anti-Semitic is either a liar or a moron.
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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby South West Claret. » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:16 pm

Spot on that man.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby If it be your will » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:16 pm

levraiclaret wrote:

Does he hell! Of all the people that secretly know the whole thing is complete tosh, it's Tom Watson!

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Devils_Advocate » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:17 pm

Wexford_Claret wrote:Yep.
It was made by a former Sun journalist who’s previously had to apologise for lying in ‘documentaries’ on Corbyn and a prominent Palestinian activist.
A number of the e-mails in last night’s ‘documentary’ were edited so as to fit the programme’s agenda.
And, of course, there’s the fact that anybody who can look at a lifelong anti-racist campaigner (who did more for the disciplinary process on anti-Jewish hatred than any other Labour leader) and call him anti-Semitic is either a liar or a moron.

I must say that I do not think clarets4me is a liar
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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby If it be your will » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:22 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:I must say that I do not think clarets4me is a liar

That made me smile.

(But I disagree. I think he, too, knows full well it's all a load of nonsense. We all do. That's what makes it all so interesting.)

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby levraiclaret » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:33 pm

If it be your will wrote:Does he hell! Of all the people that secretly know the whole thing is complete tosh, it's Tom Watson!


Then why did he say he does?

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Clarets4me » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:40 pm

If it be your will wrote:That made me smile. (But I disagree. I think he, too, knows full well it's all a load of nonsense. We all do. That's what makes it all so interesting.)


A Jewish Labour MP has resigned the Labour whip, one left the party altogether, and three long serving Labour members of the Lords have resigned from the party, but it's all an Establishment plot against the " Magic Grandpa " , apparently ....

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby If it be your will » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:43 pm

levraiclaret wrote:Then why did he say he does?

Ah, I'm with you now!

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby JR1882 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:48 pm

Nothing to do with the right wing media, last I checked, it's all coming from Labour MPs members and Peers.

Stans blind man on a galloping horse can see that this comes from the top.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby AndrewJB » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:42 am


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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby ClaretMoffitt » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:37 am

If it be your will wrote:It's worked though, hasn't it? Not in the sense that anyone actually believes it, because they don't. Virtually nobody changed their vote because they were persuaded Corbyn was a racist. Yet, in spite of this, it still managed to destroy Corbyn. Fascinating when you think about it, isn't it?

And the legacy of all this is that all 5 major UK parties have (ludicrously) adopted the IHRA definition for use as a disciplinary tool - probably for ever.

If Israel did have any hand in this, they've played an absolute blinder.


Its the neo-liberal globalists that do this to both our sides, to them it all comes down to money. That is all.

Anti-immigration will cost them money so they do everything they can to attack those who call for that.

And left wing economic policy will cost them money so they do everything they can to attack those who call for that.


They have pulled a blinder though as you say, they have the left and right right constantly fighting over the ill's that they themselves have created in society.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby If it be your will » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:17 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Its the neo-liberal globalists that do this to both our sides, to them it all comes down to money. That is all.

Anti-immigration will cost them money so they do everything they can to attack those who call for that.

And left wing economic policy will cost them money so they do everything they can to attack those who call for that.


They have pulled a blinder though as you say, they have the left and right right constantly fighting over the ill's that they themselves have created in society.

I was actually going to say that I'd noticed very similar tactics being used against the 'far' right in the past (i.e anything socially or economically to the right of say, the Tories), the haunting music accompanying images - that sort of nonsense! Even though I'm on the opposite end of the political spectrum, I can still see it. Going right back to Nick Griffin, I said loudly at the time this is not the correct approach, that it will only have short term success, and that you have to sensibly debate instead. But perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps the endless tricks and nonsense can keep the neoliberal order going indefinitely, even when their model dramatically and utterly fails, as it did in 2008.

I think Farage will largely escape it, though, because he won't significantly change anything, I don't think. And I genuinely believe Tommy Robinson was always too stupid to pose a proper threat. Is there anyone at your end of the political spectrum with the intelligence and required nouse to be 'dangerous' at the moment, by the way? It'll be interesting to see how they'll be treated.

(All that said, I didn't really consider Corbyn to be 'dangerous'! I mean, look at him!! He makes a wicked apple and blackberry jam, you know?)

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby AndrewJB » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:49 am

If it be your will wrote:I was actually going to say that I'd noticed very similar tactics being used against the 'far' right in the past (i.e anything socially or economically to the right of say, the Tories), the haunting music accompanying images - that sort of nonsense! Even though I'm on the opposite end of the political spectrum, I can still see it. Going right back to Nick Griffin, I said loudly at the time this is not the correct approach, that it will only have short term success, and that you have to sensibly debate instead. But perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps the endless tricks and nonsense can keep the neoliberal order going indefinitely, even when their model dramatically and utterly fails, as it did in 2008.

I think Farage will largely escape it, though, because he won't significantly change anything, I don't think. And I genuinely believe Tommy Robinson was always too stupid to pose a proper threat. Is there anyone at your end of the political spectrum with the intelligence and required nouse to be 'dangerous' at the moment, by the way? It'll be interesting to see how they'll be treated.

(All that said, I didn't really consider Corbyn to be 'dangerous'! I mean, look at him!! He makes a wicked apple and blackberry jam, you know?)

Corbyn is very dangerous to the Neo liberal consensus. He’ll tax them more, and in nationalising some sectors of the economy, they will lose easy rentier profit opportunities. What is worse from their standpoint is that many people will see improvements in their standards of living, and this will win him support in taxing the very rich further.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby houseboy » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:12 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:tbh I know its almost entirely bull, and the media/right wing are just hammering this antisemitism drum as a means to beat Labour and the hard left with. I think most people know this in reality, for me though I just hammer the drum not because I believe its true, but because its nice to give the left a taste of their own medicine.

Do you mind if I ask what medicine that is?

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby If it be your will » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:17 am

AndrewJB wrote:Corbyn is very dangerous to the Neo liberal consensus. He’ll tax them more, and in nationalising some sectors of the economy, they will lose easy rentier profit opportunities. What is worse from their standpoint is that many people will see improvements in their standards of living, and this will win him support in taxing the very rich further.

(Still using the present and future tenses, eh? Well I hope you're right, I suppose. IHRA, mandatory reselection, and now Brexit. He's backed down once too many times to survive, I think. The Blairites smell blood, now!)

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby AndrewJB » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:44 am

If it be your will wrote:(Still using the present and future tenses, eh? Well I hope you're right, I suppose. IHRA, mandatory reselection, and now Brexit. He's backed down once too many times to survive, I think. The Blairites smell blood, now!)

You’re closer to the action than me, so I’ve felt rather dismayed at your prognoses. Reading AAV’s review and Jon Lansmenn’s in the Guardian, it sounds as though the Panorama documentary was set out with an anti Corbyn agenda. Not giving right of reply to various people accusations were levelled at, editing emails out of context, and not even mentioning that the people they interviewed from the previous complaints procedure allowed the huge backlog of complaints to build up in the first place, are huge errors for a supposedly truth seeking program. And this: https://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com/ ... r.html?m=1

To me it’s all to transparently contrived to be taken seriously, but I suppose we’ll have to wait until the next election to see.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Corky » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:05 pm

AndrewJB wrote:To me it’s all to transparently contrived to be taken seriously, but I suppose we’ll have to wait until the next election to see.


I agree.

The programme left me with more questions than answers and the evidence such as it was, was anecdotal at best.

I hope I am not being too harsh but I was surprised by how quickly these young people being interviewed had risen through the ranks set against how quickly they then wilted and crumbled and ended up on long term sick or suffering from depression and anxiety and in one case there was talk of suicide, when the going got tough. Something nagging at the back of my mind it just didn't feel right.

For the record I am not a member of the Labour Party or think particularly highly of their Leader. I am however, generally, an Israeli sympathiser but I like many can see that how they are treating the Palestinians needs to be resolved. When in 1967 Israel won the 6 Day War, which they incidentally started, they moved from being David in the region and firmly became Goliath. And I think came with that a superior view of themselves which manifests itself today in outright bullying and some outrageous humanitarian abuses.

What I will say though is that if in 1948 the Arab Muslims in the region had decided to try to live with the new fledgling Country rather than wipe it out then things could have been so different.
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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby If it be your will » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:22 pm

AndrewJB wrote:You’re closer to the action than me, so I’ve felt rather dismayed at your prognoses. Reading AAV’s review and Jon Lansmenn’s in the Guardian, it sounds as though the Panorama documentary was set out with an anti Corbyn agenda. Not giving right of reply to various people accusations were levelled at, editing emails out of context, and not even mentioning that the people they interviewed from the previous complaints procedure allowed the huge backlog of complaints to build up in the first place, are huge errors for a supposedly truth seeking program. And this: https://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com/ ... r.html?m=1

To me it’s all to transparently contrived to be taken seriously, but I suppose we’ll have to wait until the next election to see.

It's actually funnier than Campbell putting out grossly antisemitic posters under Blair, then joining the antisemitism bandwagon under Corbyn. It turns out the boy on Panorama was present when Joan Ryan - arch Corbyn critic who left for Change UK with a stream of anti-Corbyn abuse - was negotiating a million quid off Israel for Labour Friends of Israel! She went on to describe people of Colour a 'funny tinge' on telly, remember (Edit - I'm wrong here, this was actually Change UK's Angela Smith. Joan Ryan was the 'Look at your hands' one)! And that girl on Panorama? that totally broken one? It's all over twitter that she's a martial arts expert that has previously worked for the Israeli embassy! I've no idea if any of this is true because I can't be bothered with it anymore. But bonkers though he is, George Galloway's timeline has been funny to read the last couple of days. Here's that boy off Panorama, for instance:

https://mobile.twitter.com/NAJ562/statu ... 1998187521

Oh I don't know. All fun and games, I suppose. It's slipping down the timeline a bit now, as he moves on to rage about other things, but here's Galloways twitter feed if you want some passive entertainment: https://twitter.com/georgegalloway
Last edited by If it be your will on Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Stayingup » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:43 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:There are more votes to be won in the Muslim block than the Jewish, there's no need to for Labour to pander to the Jewish vote so they can let their anti Israel views spew forth.


Yes you are right but why do they let their anti Jewish views spew forth? Just keep quiet but no the bile spews forth. Its horrible.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby evensteadiereddie » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:53 pm

As soon as Milliband's in, the problem's solved.

Next !

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Burnley Ace » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:35 pm

Stayingup wrote:Yes you are right but why do they let their anti Jewish views spew forth? Just keep quiet but no the bile spews forth. Its horrible.

They cannot help themselves, it’s like Tourette’s!

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby evensteadiereddie » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:52 pm

Some excellent examples of double standards on here.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby android » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:43 pm

Some surreal contributions on this and the other thread for sure.

The linked Panorama "critique" even tried to claim that antisemitism in the Labour party had hugely decreased under Corbyn !! That will be a great relief to British Jews I'm sure. You might as well say that Liverpool won the league last season - after all the Daily Mail reported City winning the title so it can't possibly be true.

Anyway, back in the real world, Philip Collins (Labour supporter or previous Labour supporter) summed up the situation pretty well in the Times (Murdoch filth I know) today: "Labour can rid itself of the virus of antisemitism or it can be led by Jeremy Corbyn and his friends but it cannot do both". Corbyn and his friends hold the views they have always held and they are not going to change so it is pointless thinking he will ever deal with antisemitism when it comes from people who share his world view. (But yes, if you are a right wing (Tory or pre Corbyn Labour) council trying to close a Jewish cemetery, Corbyn will leave his blackberry jam making and be all over you like a rash claiming oppression of a minority - right on comrade).

The rump of people who still hang onto to the smear/conspiracy delusion are never going to change their minds but at least it now seems to be a small minority.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby Spijed » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:48 pm

android wrote:Some surreal contributions on this and the other thread for sure.

The linked Panorama "critique" even tried to claim that antisemitism in the Labour party had hugely decreased under Corbyn !! That will be a great relief to British Jews I'm sure. You might as well say that Liverpool won the league last season - after all the Daily Mail reported City winning the title so it can't possibly be true.

Anyway, back in the real world, Philip Collins (Labour supporter or previous Labour supporter) summed up the situation pretty well in the Times (Murdoch filth I know) today: "Labour can rid itself of the virus of antisemitism or it can be led by Jeremy Corbyn and his friends but it cannot do both". Corbyn and his friends hold the views they have always held and they are not going to change so it is pointless thinking he will ever deal with antisemitism when it comes from people who share his world view. (But yes, if you are a right wing (Tory or pre Corbyn Labour) council trying to close a Jewish cemetery, Corbyn will leave his blackberry jam making and be all over you like a rash claiming oppression of a minority - right on comrade).

The rump of people who still hang onto to the smear/conspiracy delusion are never going to change their minds but at least it now seems to be a small minority.


Can I ask, are you really bothered about any anti-semitic behaviour?

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby android » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Spijed wrote:Can I ask, are you really bothered about any anti-semitic behaviour?


It's a good question, which we should perhaps ask ourselves from time to time whatever our politics (even if you intended it as a bit of point scoring banter!), so I will give it a full answer.

The truth is that when the Corbyn antisemitism stuff all started to come out a few years ago I was primarily motivated by nailing Corbyn. I think his world view is a joke and the idea of him being our PM is ludicrous. His Marxism/Communism/Socialism (all bases covered by his closest team) can never work due to human nature and it has been proven over and over that capitalism (with a social conscience) is the least bad solution. On top of that, his world view is to blame the West for all the worlds ills and as a result he naturally sides with enemies of Britain (Russia, Iran etc), so it is unthinkable that he could actually be our Prime Minister.

So initially I didn't think much about the antisemitism to be honest probably because it wasn't that visible to me as: a) I thought it was confined to a few cranks of Corbyn's ilk and b) because I don't think I am close to any Jewish people.

But since then we have seen much more of the actual suffering and fear amongst British Jews, as a result of Corbyn allowing antisemitism to fester, which of course bothers me. It probably didn't really hit home fully with me until it became apparent that Corbyn wasn't even trying to deal with the problem of antisemitism and he or his advisers decided that the best form of defence was to play the look over there card - the Tories have an Islamaphobia problem. That kind of politics to me is utterly disgusting, as it is further spreading hatred and division. The reason that strikes more of a chord with me now is that, while I don't have any close Jewish friends, I do have a significant number of close Muslim friends. So the encouragement of division that Corbyn has brought about - one lot supposedly on the side of Jews and the other on the side of muslims - bothers me enormously and the effects are close enough to me for it to be very real.
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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby If it be your will » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:44 pm

android wrote:It's a good question, which we should perhaps ask ourselves from time to time whatever our politics (even if you intended it as a bit of point scoring banter!), so I will give it a full answer.

The truth is that when the Corbyn antisemitism stuff all started to come out a few years ago I was primarily motivated by nailing Corbyn. I think his world view is a joke and the idea of him being our PM is ludicrous. His Marxism/Communism/Socialism (all bases covered by his closest team) can never work due to human nature and it has been proven over and over that capitalism (with a social conscience) is the least bad solution. On top of that, his world view is to blame the West for all the worlds ills and as a result he naturally sides with enemies of Britain (Russia, Iran etc), so it is unthinkable that he could actually be our Prime Minister.

So initially I didn't think much about the antisemitism to be honest probably because it wasn't that visible to me as: a) I thought it was confined to a few cranks of Corbyn's ilk and b) because I don't think I am close to any Jewish people.

But since then we have seen much more of the actual suffering and fear amongst British Jews, as a result of Corbyn allowing antisemitism to fester, which of course bothers me. It probably didn't really hit home fully with me until it became apparent that Corbyn wasn't even trying to deal with the problem of antisemitism and he or his advisers decided that the best form of defence was to play the look over there card - the Tories have an Islamaphobia problem. That kind of politics to me is utterly disgusting, as it is further spreading hatred and division. The reason that strikes more of a chord with me now is that, while I don't have any close Jewish friends, I do have a significant number of close Muslim friends. So the encouragement of division that Corbyn has brought about - one lot supposedly on the side of Jews and the other on the side of muslims - bothers me enormously and the effects are close enough to me for it to be very real.

I admire your honesty. You are aware, though, that by saying this, you are openly admitting you actively sought to weaponise antisemitism against Corbyn, for reasons totally unrelated to the persecution of Jews? And if you did it, do you think others may have been guilty of this, too, or were you a lone exception? Considering you misused the antisemitism cause before, should we believe you are not still doing so? Also, you are admitting that all those that were saying the issue was being weaponised against Corbyn were not hopeless denialists after all, and were actually right all along?

A genuine campaigner against antisemitism would be totally disgusted by this hijacking of their cause to score an unrelated political point, by the way. And rightly so. It is, by any measure, a completely abhorrent thing to have done.

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Re: BBC " Panorama " report on anti-semitic Labour ...

Postby If it be your will » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:58 pm

Spijed wrote:Can I ask, are you really bothered about any anti-semitic behaviour?

Wow. Sometimes the simplest of questions can get the most revealing of answers.


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