Bournemouth......

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Vegas Claret
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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:14 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Is Defoe still out on loan?
He played for Rangers midweek in the Europa league so he's either on loan or signed permanently

ClaretTony
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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:17 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:He played for Rangers midweek in the Europa league so he's either on loan or signed permanently
I know he’s still up there but wondered whether he was still a Bournemouth player. Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s still on loan though. He would still be under contract at Bournemouth until the end of the season.
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Vegas Claret
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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:24 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I know he’s still up there but wondered whether he was still a Bournemouth player. Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s still on loan though. He would still be under contract at Bournemouth until the end of the season.
18 month loan deal to take him to the end of his bournemouth contract

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:32 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Is Defoe still out on loan?
Yeah he's at Rangers, I think he's currently their main striking option for some reason.

TVC15
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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by TVC15 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:34 pm

I wish we more like Bournemouth
Giving Jermaine Defoe a 4 year contract of £130k a week and then putting him on the bench for most of his time before sending him to Scotland whilst no doubt still paying 90% of his wages.
So envious !

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by ksrclaret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:37 pm

Is Eddie Howe still the manager down there?

What an amazing job he's done for them. Exciting, attractive football and a bucket load of young players, predominantly British ones, given the chance to play PL football.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:44 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:18 month loan deal to take him to the end of his bournemouth contract
Thought that might be the case.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by TVC15 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:46 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Is Eddie Howe still the manager down there?

What an amazing job he's done for them. Exciting, attractive football and a bucket load of young players, predominantly British ones, given the chance to play PL football.
Yep and they still can’t beat Burnley !

Blackrod
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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by Blackrod » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:51 pm

Surprised a Limited Co can loan money with no intention of it being repaid. If it’s from an individual that is their choice. From a company it is really a gift that is intentionally driving down profit figures to reduce tax.

Tall Paul
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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by Tall Paul » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:59 pm

Blackrod wrote:Surprised a Limited Co can loan money with no intention of it being repaid. If it’s from an individual that is their choice. From a company it is really a gift that is intentionally driving down profit figures to reduce tax.
If a company makes a loan it doesn't affect its profits, unless it charges interest and then its profits are higher.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by ksrclaret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:02 pm

TVC15 wrote:Yep and they still can’t beat Burnley !
It's okay to praise Bournemouth, you know. It doesn't make you dirty.

Plenty of sides couldn't beat us, Accrington Stanley for one, but it doesn't mean they haven't done incredibly well. We're not so rubbish that we are the benchmark for how good a team is, i.e. if you can't beat Burnley you mustn't be very good.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by aggi » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:14 pm

I remember all the Defoe stories. I'll try and find the link but what came out later was that £100k was the earnings if he played all the games and scored loads of goals

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by TVC15 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:27 pm

ksrclaret wrote:It's okay to praise Bournemouth, you know. It doesn't make you dirty.

Plenty of sides couldn't beat us, Accrington Stanley for one, but it doesn't mean they haven't done incredibly well. We're not so rubbish that we are the benchmark for how good a team is, i.e. if you can't beat Burnley you mustn't be very good.
It was more a point about how much they had spent and also how much the media seem to praise Howe and Bournemouth when the reality is they are big spenders and bankrolled just like other clubs in this league. I think Howe has done a very good job getting them in the league but his teams still concede a lot of goals and there is little between Burnley and them in last 4 or 5 years.

Blackrod
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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by Blackrod » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:58 pm

Tall Paul wrote:If a company makes a loan it doesn't affect its profits, unless it charges interest and then its profits are higher.
Clearly. You missed the point. Loaning 50 odd million to a football club isn’t really a loan it’s a gift. There is no way it’s going to get repaid.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by Tall Paul » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:33 pm

Blackrod wrote:Clearly. You missed the point. Loaning 50 odd million to a football club isn’t really a loan it’s a gift. There is no way it’s going to get repaid.
It still won't affect the company's profits until it's written off and then the write off won't be taxable.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by Jakubs Tash » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:43 pm

aggi wrote:For clubs like Burnley and Bournemouth the crowds make barely any difference. It's about 4% of the total revenue. It's all about the TV money
Yes.....but their annual wage bill is significantly more than ours. Plus they pay larger transfer fees than us. I dont think they are making a profit without outside financial help. That's my point.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by TVC15 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:49 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote:Yes.....but their annual wage bill is significantly more than ours. Plus they pay larger transfer fees than us. I dont think they are making a profit without outside financial help. That's my point.
They aren’t making a profit at all !
They lost nearly £11m.

The outside help is currently a £52m interest free loan with no planned repayments. Their owners are also the reason they can afford to make a loss and have a £101m wage bill - nearly 50% up on the previous year.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by tim_noone » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:06 pm

TVC15 wrote:They aren’t making a profit at all !
They lost nearly £11m.

The outside help is currently a £52m interest free loan with no planned repayments. Their owners are also the reason they can afford to make a loss and have a £101m wage bill - nearly 50% up on the previous year.
Good luck to em.... Who cares were Burnley from the North. And I enjoy my trips to the south coast.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:29 pm

ksrclaret wrote:It's okay to praise Bournemouth, you know. It doesn't make you dirty.
On the flip side to that, it is okay to praise Burnley you know.

It doesn't make you a gurning happy clapper to do so.
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tiger76
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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by tiger76 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:06 pm

TVC15 wrote:They aren’t making a profit at all !
They lost nearly £11m.

The outside help is currently a £52m interest free loan with no planned repayments. Their owners are also the reason they can afford to make a loss and have a £101m wage bill - nearly 50% up on the previous year.
I don't know the details of Bournemouth's finances,but i'm happy to trust you,if they're making an £11m loss well raking in the PL millions,then they're in for a rude awakening should they take the plunge to the Championship.

Now i'm sure people will say the owners can subsidise any shortfall,but as seen in Bolton's case it's a risky strategy to take.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by Paul Waine » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:47 pm

aggi wrote:Or a big pile of Premier League TV money.

Put it this way, last season we would have had 8 players earning £100k a week on top of our existing squad and we'd have still made a profit.
Can you take me through your maths, aggi?
Is that 8 players in addition to the existing squad earning £100k/week?

I make that ......... a big enough sum I need to get out my calculator...... ;)

8 players each paid £100k/week for 50 weeks (let's make that bit of the calc a little easier) = £40 million.... + 13.8% NIC £5.5 million..... and add a little bit for other wage related costs, player insurance and the like....

I make that around £46 million.

Or, is your calc based on 8 of the existing squad being paid £100k/wk - rather than, let's say, £50k/wk? That would be £23 million extra.

Last question: are you referencing the 2017/18 season - where we've seen the accounts? or 2018/19 which has just gone?

Remember the total wage bill was £80+ million in 2017/18 - yes, it includes Sean Dyche and other non-playing staff. I don't think there was a "big bonus" for finishing 7th. I think the bigger part of any bonus pay is for staying up, and getting another year of Premier League tv money.

It will be interesting to see the 2018/19 accounts when they are published next March.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by aggi » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:20 am

Paul Waine wrote:Can you take me through your maths, aggi?
Is that 8 players in addition to the existing squad earning £100k/week?

I make that ......... a big enough sum I need to get out my calculator...... ;)

8 players each paid £100k/week for 50 weeks (let's make that bit of the calc a little easier) = £40 million.... + 13.8% NIC £5.5 million..... and add a little bit for other wage related costs, player insurance and the like....

I make that around £46 million.

Or, is your calc based on 8 of the existing squad being paid £100k/wk - rather than, let's say, £50k/wk? That would be £23 million extra.

Last question: are you referencing the 2017/18 season - where we've seen the accounts? or 2018/19 which has just gone?

Remember the total wage bill was £80+ million in 2017/18 - yes, it includes Sean Dyche and other non-playing staff. I don't think there was a "big bonus" for finishing 7th. I think the bigger part of any bonus pay is for staying up, and getting another year of Premier League tv money.

It will be interesting to see the 2018/19 accounts when they are published next March.
Yep. I'm referencing 2017/18. It's in addition to our squad, not uplifting wages. We made a £45m profit in that year so I think my numbers pretty much rec with yours.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by aggi » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:24 am

TVC15 wrote:They aren’t making a profit at all !
They lost nearly £11m.

The outside help is currently a £52m interest free loan with no planned repayments. Their owners are also the reason they can afford to make a loss and have a £101m wage bill - nearly 50% up on the previous year.
It's true that they made an £11m loss but they have a lot of assets that could generate a lot of money so that probably doesn't quite reflect their long term position.

Their big issue will be if they go down and the owners don't put more money in. Then they'll be in trouble.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by TVC15 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:16 am

aggi wrote:It's true that they made an £11m loss but they have a lot of assets that could generate a lot of money so that probably doesn't quite reflect their long term position.

Their big issue will be if they go down and the owners don't put more money in. Then they'll be in trouble.
How about their wages going up by 50% reflecting their long term position ? The deal they have just given Wilson will increase it further.
Player assets are all well and good but they have no impact at all on the trading position....unless you sell your best players - which then weakens your team etc.
They still owe significant monies for recent transfers - as per their large creditors numbers.
All I see is their financial position getting worse in the next few years.

I know that we rely on player sales too but we have consecutive years of significant profits and healthy reserves with no debt that can be called in. We sell our players to secure our future not save it as they may need to.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by Paul Waine » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:08 pm

aggi wrote:Yep. I'm referencing 2017/18. It's in addition to our squad, not uplifting wages. We made a £45m profit in that year so I think my numbers pretty much rec with yours.
Hmm, technically £45 million extra spend would have resulted in break even - in 2017/18.

I wonder what that extra would have been for 2018/19?

UTC

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by aggi » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:08 pm

TVC15 wrote:How about their wages going up by 50% reflecting their long term position ? The deal they have just given Wilson will increase it further.
Player assets are all well and good but they have no impact at all on the trading position....unless you sell your best players - which then weakens your team etc.
They still owe significant monies for recent transfers - as per their large creditors numbers.
All I see is their financial position getting worse in the next few years.

I know that we rely on player sales too but we have consecutive years of significant profits and healthy reserves with no debt that can be called in. We sell our players to secure our future not save it as they may need to.
The wage increase was nearer 40% (42%) than 50% (and for comparison ours was 33%). Whether it will increase materially this season we'll have to see. I suspect it will go up but not as steeply.

The point about player assets is that the profit position can be drastically changed with a sale or two and Bournemouth have plenty of players who would sell for a lot of money. It's true that selling will weaken the team but realistically teams lower down the league are going to struggle not to sell their best players. Bournemouth were a bit unusual that they held onto their players without selling anyone, which obviously also links into the trade creditors/debtors.

Our 17/18 profits were very much bumped up by the £30m profit from the sales of Keane and Gray. In a similar way, Mings' transfer will add £20m to Bournemouth's profits. If Brooks or Ake or someone goes then it would add a lot more.

Personally, and I may of course be wrong, I think Bournemouth will be sustainable so long as they stay in the Premier League. The TV money plus a sale or two each year will keep them ticking over. If they go down then obviously it's a whole different ball game.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by TVC15 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:20 pm

aggi wrote:The wage increase was nearer 40% (42%) than 50% (and for comparison ours was 33%). Whether it will increase materially this season we'll have to see. I suspect it will go up but not as steeply.

The point about player assets is that the profit position can be drastically changed with a sale or two and Bournemouth have plenty of players who would sell for a lot of money. It's true that selling will weaken the team but realistically teams lower down the league are going to struggle not to sell their best players. Bournemouth were a bit unusual that they held onto their players without selling anyone, which obviously also links into the trade creditors/debtors

Our 17/18 profits were very much bumped up by the £30m profit from the sales of Keane and Gray. In a similar way, Mings' transfer will add £20m to Bournemouth's profits. If Brooks or Ake or someone goes then it would add a lot more.

Personally, and I may of course be wrong, I think Bournemouth will be sustainable so long as they stay in the Premier League. The TV money plus a sale or two each year will keep them ticking over. If they go down then obviously it's a whole different ball game.
We have built up a few years of very good profits. Our wage bill is still 20% less than theirs and that’s including our £20m of performance related bonuses.
They have creditors of £122m included a big chunk to their owner.
Yes they might sell their players to fund any shortfalls but they also might break their leg in training tomorrow (as Wilson already has in the past). That’s a risk strategy to hope you can realise player assets to fund trading losses.

We are not in a position where we need to do that because our operating costs are kept to a sensible level and within our budgets and we have no debt to service or worry about. The fact that we “choose” to sell players is different - but they are not balancing our books. Our profits may have been bumped up by selling Gray and Keane but without those sales we would have still balanced our books.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:27 pm

Fair play to them. I’d sooner the likes of Bournemouth than Leeds or Forest.

As for gates. Who cares. If league tables were organised by gates we would be a league one club.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:49 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Fair play to them. I’d sooner the likes of Bournemouth than Leeds or Forest.

As for gates. Who cares. If league tables were organised by gates we would be a league one club.
Based on last season we would be mid-table in the Championship with 2 other current PL clubs below us in various positions.

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Re: Bournemouth......

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:40 am

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:Based on last season we would be mid-table in the Championship with 2 other current PL clubs below us in various positions.
Sounds like something to aim for...

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