Advice re: harassment at work

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Claret-On-A-T-Rex
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Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:07 pm

The other day my wife was explaining something to one of her colleagues and another coworker was stood behind her making blah-blah gestures and stupid faces to mock her.
It's a large American company famous for making jeans (yep, that five-o-one).
My wife has been there for twenty years and has never been on the receiving end of this kind of thing before and it has really upset her.
The girl is from another department and has a different boss who defends her.
What do you think she should do?
What would you do?

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ClaretAndJew
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby ClaretAndJew » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:11 pm

I mean it's not on but doesn't seem like anything bad has happened just someone trying to be funny.

Wife should smash her car up or throw her down the stairs when no-one is looking.
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Blackrod
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Blackrod » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:11 pm

Maybe it just me but I’d hardly call that harassment. In any job there will always be people you don’t like, who are rude, hard to work with and say things you don’t like.

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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby ClaretTony » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:13 pm

Blackrod wrote:Maybe it just me but I’d hardly call that harassment. In any job there will always be people you don’t like, who are rude, hard to work with and say things you don’t like.


There are, and you shouldn't have to put up with it. It is harassment.
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taio
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby taio » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:14 pm

Let it blow over.

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SonofPog
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby SonofPog » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:16 pm

As its a large company it'll have a HR department, I would suggest she makes a statement (not a complaint) but a statement for the record of the incident, in case there's any further incidents like this, she can refer back to it, and also, if there are other complaints from different people, HR will see its not just an isolated incident.

In the meantime, I'll try and get your wife to laugh it off as the obviously inmature unproffesional act it was.
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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:22 pm

Who told her that there was someone behind her making faces etc?

If she didn't see it happening, then it's all hearsay.

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Tricky Trevor
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Tricky Trevor » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:53 pm

She should have commented immediately. “Excuse me we are having a conversation here, have you know work to do?” The above HR recommendation is about right now.

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LeuvenClaret
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby LeuvenClaret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:54 pm

The thing I find shocking here is the boss defending her. He/She is making that behaviour acceptable and condoning it.

The thing that is unknown is weather this person has a record of harassing or being insulting to other co workers, leaders or management. If this goes unreported then the previous behaviour can never be acted upon if this behaviour escalates and this employee becomes a problem as there will be no official record.

Maybe this was a bit of fun maybe it wasn’t but for me her boss should have had a quiet word and this would have been dealt with correctly.

My thoughts are to go back to the boss and explain the seriousness again and possible outcomes if it’s not taken seriously. If nothing is done and your wife is still upset then she needs to talk with HR or her manager.

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DustyBawls
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby DustyBawls » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:03 pm

Queries as not clear in the OP.
Was it the OP's wife who was being made fun out of, or the person his wife was speaking to?
Was the person behind said back doing it in a playful way, or an insecure way trying to get a laugh at somebody else's expense? A lot of insecure people do this.
Or were they doing it in more a bullying type of way?

The OP has done his fair share of trolling/bullying on here and if it his wife, and so should have more idea than those who haven't met her.
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ewanrob
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby ewanrob » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:07 pm

If she was stood behind your wife making the gestures, then she clearly has an agenda...and therefore is clearly harassment

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Lowbankclaret
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Lowbankclaret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:08 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:The other day my wife was explaining something to one of her colleagues and another coworker was stood behind her making blah-blah gestures and stupid faces to mock her.
It's a large American company famous for making jeans (yep, that five-o-one).
My wife has been there for twenty years and has never been on the receiving end of this kind of thing before and it has really upset her.
The girl is from another department and has a different boss who defends her.
What do you think she should do?
What would you do?


As an ex union rep who did deal with stuff like this.

Get a booklet, write down what happened, time and date. If you can get her coworker to sign as a witness.

I would suggest not going to HR, they will cover it up and toe the company.

If it happens again, your misses must tell the other she is making her feel uncomfortable or she find her behaviour offensive.

Again log, time date and what went on in detail. If witnessed get them to sign.

You don’t need to tell the coworker again what she is doing is wrong.

When you get four witnessed events, then report it. If your missus is in the union get them involved then but only then.

HR will have no option to suspend the coworker. It then depends on how serious they judge the offence.

If you do what I suggest you will have complied with the requirements needed in law, you informed the person their action were causing offence, and you have written evidence that was witnessed.

The whole management team at work hate me, as I have successfully helped several people who were being bullied by simply working to this simply method.
Hence me being rejected for several management positions I applied for.

This would Only would work in large companies with strong anti bullying policies.

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Middle-agedClaret
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Middle-agedClaret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:18 pm

If you believe you are being harassed at work, I think letting HR know is sensible. A large firm, such as this, will have some HR presence.
If you work somewhere without a HR team, than contact CAB or ACAS for advice.
Recording details of the incident and having them witnessed are helpful steps. So is letting the other person know that you find their behaviour unpleasant/ offensive, and asking them to stop.
I don’t see why you would avoid using your firm’s HR people.

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Zesty
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Zesty » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:51 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:The other day my wife was explaining something to one of her colleagues and another coworker was stood behind her making blah-blah gestures and stupid faces to mock her.
It's a large American company famous for making jeans (yep, that five-o-one).
My wife has been there for twenty years and has never been on the receiving end of this kind of thing before and it has really upset her.
The girl is from another department and has a different boss who defends her.
What do you think she should do?
What would you do?



Dish out some headbutts

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Claret-On-A-T-Rex
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:01 pm

Thanks all, great advice, I will pass them on.

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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby deanothedino » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:02 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:As an ex union rep who did deal with stuff like this.

Get a booklet, write down what happened, time and date. If you can get her coworker to sign as a witness.

I would suggest not going to HR, they will cover it up and toe the company.

If it happens again, your misses must tell the other she is making her feel uncomfortable or she find her behaviour offensive.

Again log, time date and what went on in detail. If witnessed get them to sign.

You don’t need to tell the coworker again what she is doing is wrong.

When you get four witnessed events, then report it. If your missus is in the union get them involved then but only then.

HR will have no option to suspend the coworker. It then depends on how serious they judge the offence.

If you do what I suggest you will have complied with the requirements needed in law, you informed the person their action were causing offence, and you have written evidence that was witnessed.

The whole management team at work hate me, as I have successfully helped several people who were being bullied by simply working to this simply method.
Hence me being rejected for several management positions I applied for.

This would Only would work in large companies with strong anti bullying policies.


Where I work (pretty large multi-national) what you are suggesting would result in a suspension. In fact it would just mean you were several more instances away from them getting suspended.

In OPs wife’s situation, I would just tell the person I wasn’t happy with what they’re doing. All these other suggestions are just passive aggressive.

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SonofPog
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby SonofPog » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:05 pm

deanothedino wrote:….. All these other suggestions are just passive aggressive.


Including the headbutts suggestion :P

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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby deanothedino » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:14 pm

SonofPog wrote:Including the headbutts suggestion :P

I hadn’t got to that one... :lol:

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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby yorkyclaret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:56 pm

Sounds like a classic example of someone having problems in their life, feeling that your wife is having a better life than her, she tries to even things up by making fun of your wife. Best thing is for your wife to offer her help and support.
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lrac
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby lrac » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:02 pm

I suggest you read employment law .it is bullying in the work place .
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Lowbankclaret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:21 pm

deanothedino wrote:Where I work (pretty large multi-national) what you are suggesting would result in a suspension. In fact it would just mean you were several more instances away from them getting suspended.

In OPs wife’s situation, I would just tell the person I wasn’t happy with what they’re doing. All these other suggestions are just passive aggressive.



Really so your company supports bullying positively, against UK law.

Surprising
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lrac
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby lrac » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:45 pm

taio wrote:Let it blow over.

So bullying is ok then .

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Lowbankclaret
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Lowbankclaret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:50 pm

deanothedino wrote:Where I work (pretty large multi-national) what you are suggesting would result in a suspension. In fact it would just mean you were several more instances away from them getting suspended.

In OPs wife’s situation, I would just tell the person I wasn’t happy with what they’re doing. All these other suggestions are just passive aggressive.


Please send CT an email with details of your company. Just say forward to lowbank.

I will contact Unites full time officials I know to understand how your company is dealing with this issue outside of UK law.

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Paul Waine
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Paul Waine » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:57 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:The other day my wife was explaining something to one of her colleagues and another coworker was stood behind her making blah-blah gestures and stupid faces to mock her.
It's a large American company famous for making jeans (yep, that five-o-one).
My wife has been there for twenty years and has never been on the receiving end of this kind of thing before and it has really upset her.
The girl is from another department and has a different boss who defends her.
What do you think she should do?
What would you do?


Hi T-Rex, from some of your earlier posts, aren't you living in Spain? Is that where your wife works, or is she back in the UK?

If she's in Spain with you, best that you get advice on Spanish employment laws.

Good luck.

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DCWat
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby DCWat » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:49 pm

Step 1: Speak to the individual.
Step 2: Speak to your line manager

If this was a first instance, it could quite easily be a joke misconstrued. Harassment and bullying should in no way be tolerate but we have become a society all too willing to jump to the worst conclusion (of course this may not be the case here).

The “union” advice, for me sums up my experience with union representation and the approach that many adopt. Ignore HR, do not pass go, do not collect £200!!

How about firstly, trying to resolve issues (perceived or otherwise) amicably. Unions have a place but there are steps that should be taken way before even considering the need for representation.

Society now jumps straight to the default of that’s harassment or bullying! Both should be rooted out but neither should be assumed on face value.

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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Tribesmen » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:48 am

I was expecting someone to talk about an AK47 on this thread .
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Healeywoodclaret » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:07 am

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:The other day my wife was explaining something to one of her colleagues and another coworker was stood behind her making blah-blah gestures and stupid faces to mock her.
It's a large American company famous for making jeans (yep, that five-o-one).
My wife has been there for twenty years and has never been on the receiving end of this kind of thing before and it has really upset her.
The girl is from another department and has a different boss who defends her.
What do you think she should do?
What would you do?


I find some of your posts on here rude and offensive.
Hopefully your wife is not that way inclined.
To protect herself she needs to diary this incident and any further incidents and discuss with her manager and HR should it happen again.
The instinct for many is to challenge this behaviour at the time. If this didn't happen have a quiet word with the offender if the opportunity arises. If this person is still bolshy give some back. You want to tell her you will smash her teeth in but really that's not wise if you want to keep the job!
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CharlieinNewMexico
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby CharlieinNewMexico » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:15 am

If her boss is defending her, sidestep the boss. Upstream it to corporate HR (not just your local piddly HR) using the ethics hotline, all corporations have one.

It's amazing how people act differently when something comes down from above.

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Siddo
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Siddo » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:34 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:As an ex union rep who did deal with stuff like this.

Get a booklet, write down what happened, time and date. If you can get her coworker to sign as a witness.

I would suggest not going to HR, they will cover it up and toe the company.

If it happens again, your misses must tell the other she is making her feel uncomfortable or she find her behaviour offensive.

Again log, time date and what went on in detail. If witnessed get them to sign.

You don’t need to tell the coworker again what she is doing is wrong.

When you get four witnessed events, then report it. If your missus is in the union get them involved then but only then.

HR will have no option to suspend the coworker. It then depends on how serious they judge the offence.

If you do what I suggest you will have complied with the requirements needed in law, you informed the person their action were causing offence, and you have written evidence that was witnessed.

The whole management team at work hate me, as I have successfully helped several people who were being bullied by simply working to this simply method.
Hence me being rejected for several management positions I applied for.

This would Only would work in large companies with strong anti bullying policies.

Why would HR cover it up?

In my experience the union would be more likely to "cover it up".

God help employees if all union reps were like this.
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Healeywoodclaret
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Healeywoodclaret » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:55 am

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:The other day my wife was explaining something to one of her colleagues and another coworker was stood behind her making blah-blah gestures and stupid faces to mock her.
It's a large American company famous for making jeans (yep, that five-o-one).
My wife has been there for twenty years and has never been on the receiving end of this kind of thing before and it has really upset her.
The girl is from another department and has a different boss who defends her.
What do you think she should do?
What would you do?


And just to remind everyone that this is the guy who found Jo Brand's "joke" about throwing acid in someone's face perfectly acceptable.

Sort of makes a bit of face pulling pretty insignificant.

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Claret-On-A-T-Rex
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:58 am

Paul Waine wrote:Hi T-Rex, from some of your earlier posts, aren't you living in Spain? Is that where your wife works, or is she back in the UK?

If she's in Spain with you, best that you get advice on Spanish employment laws.

Good luck.


Yes but it's an american company and the fundamentals are the same around the globe.

I think the individual would get a talking to from HR and possibly be warned about her behaviour in the office and respect for her coworkers.

The Spanish aren't like the English (or more specifically Northern folk), they don't like people talking the **** out of them and can't laugh it off.

We've all had it done as kids at school but they are sensitive about these kind of things so when it happens it knocks them for six for a few days.

As kids and even teenagers, they are the Prince or Princess of the family.

They have very thin-skins as a result of this.

The other girl is from Brazil and has form for this kind of attention-seeking amatuer-dramatics-at-work crap, she's always having a go at someone.

I have the feeling that if my wife talks only to her it'll become an ongoing conflict which is probably what the other girl wants and escalating it with HR might be the nuclear option (not needed just yet).

Documenting everything then dropping it, as suggested, is probably, in my opinion, the best solution for now.

As it happened on Friday maybe it gives her an opportunity to go in refreshed on Monday and act like it didn't happen, I'll say "just forget about it until she does something else to you or somebody else."

Then **** her.

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Healeywoodclaret
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Healeywoodclaret » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:59 am

Sounds like double standards to me.

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deanothedino
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby deanothedino » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:20 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Really so your company supports bullying positively, against UK law.

Surprising

No, they support following due process. They have robust processes in place for bullying. All involve reporting early, not late. And both of the unions with representatives onsite are involved in these processes.

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groove
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby groove » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:57 pm

No need to be distressed. Tell her to give her a belt, that should iron things out. It all comes out in the stone wash.
Beware seeking advice from the button-fly by night cowboys on here. There could be 5 hundred and one reasons behind it. .

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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby holdyourfire » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:33 pm

write everything down,i had an issue with an MD years ago,and she quoted the following.(IF ITS NOT WROTE DOWN,IT WAS NEVER SAID).From that day onward,i made sure i did so.

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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby theroyaldyche » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:24 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:The other day my wife was explaining something to one of her colleagues and another coworker was stood behind her making blah-blah gestures and stupid faces to mock her.
It's a large American company famous for making jeans (yep, that five-o-one).
My wife has been there for twenty years and has never been on the receiving end of this kind of thing before and it has really upset her.
The girl is from another department and has a different boss who defends her.
What do you think she should do?
What would you do?


Ignore them
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LoveCurryPies
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby LoveCurryPies » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:50 pm

Video evidence.

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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Rileybobs » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:03 pm

This does seem like a huge fuss over nothing. Obviously your wife shouldn’t be made to feel upset by a colleague but is she being over-sensitive?

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Paul Waine
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Paul Waine » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:23 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:Yes but it's an american company and the fundamentals are the same around the globe.

I think the individual would get a talking to from HR and possibly be warned about her behaviour in the office and respect for her coworkers.

The Spanish aren't like the English (or more specifically Northern folk), they don't like people talking the **** out of them and can't laugh it off.

We've all had it done as kids at school but they are sensitive about these kind of things so when it happens it knocks them for six for a few days.

As kids and even teenagers, they are the Prince or Princess of the family.

They have very thin-skins as a result of this.

The other girl is from Brazil and has form for this kind of attention-seeking amatuer-dramatics-at-work crap, she's always having a go at someone.

I have the feeling that if my wife talks only to her it'll become an ongoing conflict which is probably what the other girl wants and escalating it with HR might be the nuclear option (not needed just yet).

Documenting everything then dropping it, as suggested, is probably, in my opinion, the best solution for now.

As it happened on Friday maybe it gives her an opportunity to go in refreshed on Monday and act like it didn't happen, I'll say "just forget about it until she does something else to you or somebody else."

Then **** her.


So, you are in Spain, your wife is Spanish and works for Levis in Spain....?

Obviously, I hope it all gets sorted for your wife. I've no idea whether Spanish HR provisions are the same as in UK - whether north or south. I do know that there are a number of differences in HR/employment rights between UK and US - even if you are working for a US owned business in the UK.

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Damo
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Damo » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:46 pm

This is the best troll thread I've ever seen on here.
Nice work pal
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DustyBawls
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby DustyBawls » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:47 pm

Damo wrote:This is the best troll thread I've ever seen on here.
Nice work pal


You're experienced in it, so I'll take your word.
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:23 pm

Rileybobs wrote:This does seem like a huge fuss over nothing. Obviously your wife shouldn’t be made to feel upset by a colleague but is she being over-sensitive?


For us, yes, but they have different standards of behaviour here.

Also, go stand behind a colleague and make blah-blah-blah gestures when he's explaining a new process and see how well he takes it, I think it would be out of order in the UK too :D

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DustyBawls
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby DustyBawls » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:36 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:For us, yes, but they have different standards of behaviour here.

Also, go stand behind a colleague and make blah-blah-blah gestures when he's explaining a new process and see how well he takes it, I think it would be out of order in the UK too :D


You aren't being taken seriously on here, because you, yourself are a bully (an attempt at being one). So people couldn't care less about what's happened to your wife. What they are wondering is why she's with you. So - you like bullying and shouting down on people (ONLINE only I expect), yet you now have a problem with your partner receiving the same treatment?) What world do you live in?
This user liked this post: Healeywoodclaret

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dsr
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby dsr » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:39 pm

For one thing, this co-worker surely can't have upset your wife by making stupid faces behind her back. Or at lease, if your wife was upset by someone making stupid faces that she didn't even see, then she's a touch too sensitive even if she is Spanish and has a different cultural background. Perhaps your wife turned round and saw the stupid faces face to face, as it were?

Secondly, write it down, as has been said before. Keep a log. Then if it happens again, perhaps another twenty years down the line, she will have a record a serial face pulling.

Thirdly, it isn't bullying. Bullying is consistently getting at someone. A one-off incident of pulling faces at someone else in the victim's presence, doesn't constitute bullying. Not under UK law, anyway.

If you take this to the top and get the real bigwigs involved, what are they going to do? Either find the case not proved, which is more than likely, or else at worst tell the culprit that that wasn't nice, don't do it again. And mark your wife's card as a very sensitive soul, tread very very carefully round her. Not a note you want on her record.

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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:20 am

dsr wrote:For one thing, this co-worker surely can't have upset your wife by making stupid faces behind her back. Or at lease, if your wife was upset by someone making stupid faces that she didn't even see, then she's a touch too sensitive even if she is Spanish and has a different cultural background. Perhaps your wife turned round and saw the stupid faces face to face, as it were?

Secondly, write it down, as has been said before. Keep a log. Then if it happens again, perhaps another twenty years down the line, she will have a record a serial face pulling.

Thirdly, it isn't bullying. Bullying is consistently getting at someone. A one-off incident of pulling faces at someone else in the victim's presence, doesn't constitute bullying. Not under UK law, anyway.

If you take this to the top and get the real bigwigs involved, what are they going to do? Either find the case not proved, which is more than likely, or else at worst tell the culprit that that wasn't nice, don't do it again. And mark your wife's card as a very sensitive soul, tread very very carefully round her. Not a note you want on her record.


I totally agree, I think this person will dig themselves into a hole eventually.

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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Healeywoodclaret » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:39 am

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:For us, yes, but they have different standards of behaviour here.

Also, go stand behind a colleague and make blah-blah-blah gestures when he's explaining a new process and see how well he takes it, I think it would be out of order in the UK too :D


Or suggest throwing acid in his face? Then tell him it's a joke.

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Imploding Turtle
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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Imploding Turtle » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:42 am

Healeywoodclaret wrote:Or suggest throwing acid in his face? Then tell him it's a joke.


Did you just make a joke about throwing acid in peoples faces? I hear that making that joke is the worst thing anyone can do.

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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Spike » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:53 am

groove wrote:No need to be distressed. Tell her to give her a belt, that should iron things out. It all comes out in the stone wash.
Beware seeking advice from the button-fly by night cowboys on here. There could be 5 hundred and one reasons behind it. .


Tell her to zip it!

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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Devils_Advocate » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:24 am

Healeywoodclaret wrote:Or suggest throwing acid in his face? Then tell him it's a joke.

That's 4 post on this thread all just having a dig at the OP. You obviously aren't a very nice person but if you are not interested in the topic and just have a problem with the OP why don't you do yourself a favour and just stay off it cos its making you look a bit of a sad case

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Re: Advice re: harassment at work

Postby Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:27 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:That's 4 post on this thread all just having a dig at the OP. You obviously aren't a very nice person but if you are not interested in the topic and just have a problem with the OP why don't you do yourself a favour and just stay off it cos its making you look a bit of a sad case


Ha! Don't worry about it.

If you're talking about Healeywoodclaret and Dusty Bawls, both of those idiots have been on ignore for months :D :D :D

One of the reaons I moved to Spain was so I didn't have to listen to people from Healey ******* Wood :lol: :lol: :lol:


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