Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
# 1
warksclaret
Posts: 853
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:13 pm
Been Liked: 227 times
Has Liked: 1 time

Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby warksclaret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:24 pm

Has anyone ever had a speeding offence where the photo cannot identify the driver. I received one but because its a lease car I did not find out until 6 weeks later (all the police need to do is advise the lease company within 14 days), Whilst its a company car my wife also drives it at weekends.With it being so long after the event and it being over the Easter weekend, I knew it was not being used on business but both of us regularly do the drive to the local shops at weekends,where the offence occurred. I requested a photo in order to identify which of us was driving , but the photo was from behind the car so inconclusive. I provided a detailed written explanation stating that we genuinely did not know who was driving, but they have responded by saying its the responsibility of the registered owner(me) to keep a record of who is driving the vehicle at anyone time and this in itself is an offence if you cannot provide. The AA on their web site state that failure to keep records of the driver can lead to 6 points. Has anyone experienced something similar and is there any advice on how I proceed. Would be grateful to hear

# 2
ClaretAndJew
Posts: 6037
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:08 am
Been Liked: 2037 times
Has Liked: 445 times
Location: Earth

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby ClaretAndJew » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:29 pm

Who else has access to it?

# 3
claptrappers_union
Posts: 1966
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 561 times
Has Liked: 102 times
Location: The Banana Stand

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby claptrappers_union » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:30 pm

The person with fewest points was driving

# 4
GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 3351
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 636 times
Has Liked: 1415 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:32 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:The person with fewest points was driving


This, or if you know someone who's got no points and is happy to help...

# 5
warksclaret
Posts: 853
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:13 pm
Been Liked: 227 times
Has Liked: 1 time

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby warksclaret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:38 pm

My wife is the only one who has access other than me and before you ask I would not ask her to take the points (remember the MP who was jailed for this ??)

# 6
NL Claret
Posts: 1536
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:37 pm
Been Liked: 378 times
Has Liked: 172 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby NL Claret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:39 pm

When you thought UTC couldn't stoop much lower......just go on a speed awareness course , could be money well spent.
This user liked this post: COYC73

# 7
GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 3351
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 636 times
Has Liked: 1415 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:39 pm

warksclaret wrote:My wife is the only one who has access other than me and before you ask I would not ask her to take the points (remember the MP who was jailed for this ??)


Yeah we remember the MP who was jailed, but they were clearly inept at lying/keeping a secret which is surprising for an MP.

It happens more than you'd think, but not everyone goes round blabbing about it.

# 8
warksclaret
Posts: 853
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:13 pm
Been Liked: 227 times
Has Liked: 1 time

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby warksclaret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:40 pm

I cannot, as I have been on a recent one and you cannot go on another for 3 years

# 9
ClaretAndJew
Posts: 6037
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:08 am
Been Liked: 2037 times
Has Liked: 445 times
Location: Earth

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby ClaretAndJew » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:41 pm

warksclaret wrote:My wife is the only one who has access other than me and before you ask I would not ask her to take the points (remember the MP who was jailed for this ??)


Then just toss a coin and whoever loses takes the fine.

# 10
bfcjg
Posts: 4888
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:17 pm
Been Liked: 1787 times
Has Liked: 1820 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby bfcjg » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:42 pm

I worked on a development a few years ago where one of the directors was also a magistrate. Similar story to yours there's was in Manchester and it was a genuine case of we don't know who was driving and they got off with it. Both were prepared to take the points or do the course but two people can't be done apparently. Might have changed since.

# 11
SonofPog
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:52 am
Been Liked: 130 times
Has Liked: 61 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby SonofPog » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:44 pm

You or the wife? seems like a clear choice to me. ;-)

# 12
warksclaret
Posts: 853
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:13 pm
Been Liked: 227 times
Has Liked: 1 time

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby warksclaret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:44 pm

Thanks BFCJG-that's the best suggestion so far

# 13
bfcjg
Posts: 4888
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:17 pm
Been Liked: 1787 times
Has Liked: 1820 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby bfcjg » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:47 pm


# 14
warksclaret
Posts: 853
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:13 pm
Been Liked: 227 times
Has Liked: 1 time

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby warksclaret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:52 pm

Bfcg -appreciate the effort you have made. Thanks for the attachment. There is one very good case study to make reference too when I respond

Thank you my friend

# 15
bfcjg
Posts: 4888
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:17 pm
Been Liked: 1787 times
Has Liked: 1820 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby bfcjg » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:57 pm

No problem. The rich and famous test the law when it comes to motoring why shouldn't the rest of us.
This user liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81

# 16
warksclaret
Posts: 853
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:13 pm
Been Liked: 227 times
Has Liked: 1 time

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby warksclaret » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:02 pm

Fully agree-thanks again

# 17
Imploding Turtle
Posts: 19639
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
Been Liked: 5349 times
Has Liked: 2478 times
Location: Burnley, Lancs

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Imploding Turtle » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:31 pm

warksclaret wrote:Has anyone ever had a speeding offence where the photo cannot identify the driver. I received one but because its a lease car I did not find out until 6 weeks later (all the police need to do is advise the lease company within 14 days), Whilst its a company car my wife also drives it at weekends.With it being so long after the event and it being over the Easter weekend, I knew it was not being used on business but both of us regularly do the drive to the local shops at weekends,where the offence occurred. I requested a photo in order to identify which of us was driving , but the photo was from behind the car so inconclusive. I provided a detailed written explanation stating that we genuinely did not know who was driving, but they have responded by saying its the responsibility of the registered owner(me) to keep a record of who is driving the vehicle at anyone time and this in itself is an offence if you cannot provide. The AA on their web site state that failure to keep records of the driver can lead to 6 points. Has anyone experienced something similar and is there any advice on how I proceed. Would be grateful to hear


Pay the fine and stop speeding.
These 4 users liked this post: tim_noone LoveCurryPies Siddo jjclaret

# 18
tim_noone
Posts: 11078
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:12 pm
Been Liked: 2859 times
Has Liked: 10186 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby tim_noone » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:52 pm

warksclaret wrote:Has anyone ever had a speeding offence where the photo cannot identify the driver. I received one but because its a lease car I did not find out until 6 weeks later (all the police need to do is advise the lease company within 14 days), Whilst its a company car my wife also drives it at weekends.With it being so long after the event and it being over the Easter weekend, I knew it was not being used on business but both of us regularly do the drive to the local shops at weekends,where the offence occurred. I requested a photo in order to identify which of us was driving , but the photo was from behind the car so inconclusive. I provided a detailed written explanation stating that we genuinely did not know who was driving, but they have responded by saying its the responsibility of the registered owner(me) to keep a record of who is driving the vehicle at anyone time and this in itself is an offence if you cannot provide. The AA on their web site state that failure to keep records of the driver can lead to 6 points. Has anyone experienced something similar and is there any advice on how I proceed. Would be grateful to hear

Respond to the notification ..take the three points. Irrespective you will get 6points and a massive fine if you ignore. We went down the unsure who was driving route 10 or so years ago.and mislaid correspondence from the police.A letter dropped on the mat with 6 points and a £ 500 fine!! For the missus "registered"owner. the Law had then been changed. She Appealed the conviction citing the mislaid correspondence.the points stuck the fine was waived. On travelling from Burnley to Bournemouth Magistrates court "I was Driving" :D I got 3 points for Speeding in an average speed check area of the Motorway!!!

# 19
Wile E Coyote
Posts: 5982
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:22 pm
Been Liked: 1898 times
Has Liked: 1086 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Wile E Coyote » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:17 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Pay the fine and stop speeding.


christ, the arrogance of this post , and from the boards resident know it all smug git.
These 3 users liked this post: AndyClaret Bosscat randomclaret2

# 20
tim_noone
Posts: 11078
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:12 pm
Been Liked: 2859 times
Has Liked: 10186 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby tim_noone » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:19 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:christ, the arrogance of this post , and from the boards resident know it all smug git.

Tbf he is right wile.... :D
This user liked this post: Bosscat

# 21
Wile E Coyote
Posts: 5982
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:22 pm
Been Liked: 1898 times
Has Liked: 1086 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Wile E Coyote » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:28 pm

tim_noone wrote:Tbf he is right wile.... :D


in essence, but that curt response is crass. can almost picture the sanctimonious expression as he replied.
This user liked this post: Bosscat

# 22
Chobulous
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:27 am
Been Liked: 591 times
Has Liked: 4 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Chobulous » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:30 pm

Just fecking man up and take your medicine you absolute tosspot
These 2 users liked this post: tim_noone ZizkovClaret

# 23
Imploding Turtle
Posts: 19639
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
Been Liked: 5349 times
Has Liked: 2478 times
Location: Burnley, Lancs

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Imploding Turtle » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:52 am

Wile E Coyote wrote:christ, the arrogance of this post , and from the boards resident know it all smug git.


So easily upset. Living up to your username.

# 24
No Ney Never
Posts: 1797
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:31 pm
Been Liked: 577 times
Has Liked: 242 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby No Ney Never » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:07 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Pay the fine and stop speeding.

Stop speeding I agree with, pay the fine I don't.
The OP has clearly stated that he doesn't know who was driving, so why should he?
If you take the trouble to read the link attached to Bfcjg's post, you'll see that there is a lawful process that can be persued.
For someone who sees the world through the internet, I'd have thought you would have considered this before posting, or are you just being arsey?...again!

# 25
warksclaret
Posts: 853
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:13 pm
Been Liked: 227 times
Has Liked: 1 time

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby warksclaret » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:21 am

I posted on here as a lot of the readers have immense knowledge and experience, and I have never been failed to be impressed by some of the good advice on here. Couple of the posters on this thread have gone out of their way to help me for which I am grateful. The car I just handed in had 110,000 miles done in 3 years-mainly business. I simply cannot afford to amass points on my license-I need the car for work.I got the summons nearly 7 weeks after the offence,as its a lease car, and during the weekend when we both regularly use the car. There is speeding and speeding-this was 35 in a 30 in a rural area

# 26
Dyched
Posts: 3947
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:34 am
Been Liked: 1280 times
Has Liked: 308 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Dyched » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:25 am

Stop ******* speeding

Speed cameras need replacing with Anti Speed Missile Systems. Any speeding and booooom, no points, no fines just take care of the problem.

# 27
durhamclaret
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:30 pm
Been Liked: 47 times
Has Liked: 28 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby durhamclaret » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:29 am

How ya doin warks, well I hope.
Know the feeling, I've just got done for 38 in a 30 in a non built up area.
Occupational hazard for you I guess.
Cheers

# 28
warksclaret
Posts: 853
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:13 pm
Been Liked: 227 times
Has Liked: 1 time

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby warksclaret » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:14 am

Hi Durham-well thanks. Trust you are too. Coming up to retirement so more time to watch the team.regards

# 29
Billy Balfour
Posts: 995
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 3:00 pm
Been Liked: 414 times
Has Liked: 156 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Billy Balfour » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:09 pm

This is off topic, but driving related. The other day I was doing 70mph while driving down the M65 in the left hand lane towards Preston. The car behind was tailgating - not even a car's length from me. He could have overtaken at any point, but no, he was near enough glued to my bumper.

If I slowed down, he slowed too. This was incompetent driving on his part rather than aggressive driving. A traffic cop was parked up in a bay a couple of miles past the Shadsworth's junction. I thought 'got you now, you arsehole', but nope. Totally ignored him. The tailgating law seems to be ignored by idiots and the enforcers alike. Apparently, it kills or seriously injures more than 100 people a year.

# 30
Devils_Advocate
Posts: 4297
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 1484 times
Has Liked: 285 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Devils_Advocate » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:48 pm

If used correctly tailgating is a key driving skill to get slow drivers out of the middle and fast lane.
This user liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81

# 31
Rileybobs
Posts: 6009
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 2572 times
Has Liked: 594 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Rileybobs » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:17 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:If used correctly tailgating is a key driving skill to get slow drivers out of the middle and fast lane.


Reduces drag as well. The best way to get optimum MPG on the motorway whilst in turn reducing carbon emissions.
This user liked this post: Bosscat

# 32
Pstotto
Posts: 4175
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:11 pm
Been Liked: 758 times
Has Liked: 597 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Pstotto » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:54 pm

If you've got a g.p.s. phone then its location can be tracked over distance and speed calculated. If that phone belongs to the accused occupant of the car, then it's quite damning evidence.

They call it the tachograph in the sky, from what I've heard, there's a police traffic satellite checking all phone locations and travel.

# 33
elwaclaret
Posts: 2296
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:57 am
Been Liked: 545 times
Has Liked: 1110 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby elwaclaret » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:06 pm

NL Claret wrote:When you thought UTC couldn't stoop much lower......just go on a speed awareness course , could be money well spent.


Had to go on one last week. There had been a speed change on a road I used to drive daily (40 down to 20) so I was six over instead of 4 under as I thought... it is amazing how much you forget when you have been driving so long. While I wouldn’t volunteer I actually found it very useful. Some of it you do but you’ve even forgotten why....
These 2 users liked this post: NL Claret Bosscat

# 34
Rick_Muller
Posts: 4509
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:53 am
Been Liked: 1946 times
Has Liked: 4883 times
Location: -90.000000, 0.000000

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Rick_Muller » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:35 pm

Pstotto wrote:If you've got a g.p.s. phone then its location can be tracked over distance and speed calculated. If that phone belongs to the accused occupant of the car, then it's quite damning evidence.

They call it the tachograph in the sky, from what I've heard, there's a police traffic satellite checking all phone locations and travel.

There is not a big brother satellite in the Sky Pete, that would be just daft considering that each and every smartphone has gps built in and most users leave location services switched on. If needed, the police can request info from your phone provider, but only if needed.

# 35
Hendrickxz
Posts: 436
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:14 pm
Been Liked: 139 times
Has Liked: 35 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Hendrickxz » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:48 am

Why not toss a coin to decide which one of you takes the rap? :)

# 36
Rileybobs
Posts: 6009
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 2572 times
Has Liked: 594 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Rileybobs » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:15 am

Surely it is your responsibility to recall who was driving the car. Otherwise you and your wife could drive around wearing balaclavas as fast as you like and plead ignorance when caught. Can you honestly not recall who was driving on that day and does the location of the offence not give it away?

# 37
Damo
Posts: 3273
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:04 pm
Been Liked: 1253 times
Has Liked: 1927 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Damo » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:25 am

In instances like this, they should prosecute every person who has access to the vehicle. The threat of that would make people remember who the culprit was, and close this loophole for good
These 2 users liked this post: Rick_Muller Bosscat

# 38
deanothedino
Posts: 996
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:34 am
Been Liked: 582 times
Has Liked: 169 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby deanothedino » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:32 am

No Ney Never wrote:Stop speeding I agree with, pay the fine I don't.
The OP has clearly stated that he doesn't know who was driving, so why should he?
If you take the trouble to read the link attached to Bfcjg's post, you'll see that there is a lawful process that can be persued.
For someone who sees the world through the internet, I'd have thought you would have considered this before posting, or are you just being arsey?...again!


Because he's the registered keeper of the vehicle and he is responsible for it.

# 39
dsr
Posts: 8485
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 2569 times
Has Liked: 1097 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby dsr » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:39 pm

deanothedino wrote:Because he's the registered keeper of the vehicle and he is responsible for it.

All those who share a car and keep a detailed log of who was driving and where, stand up now.

I don't see many people standing. Who in the real world does that?

# 40
claret2018
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:49 pm
Been Liked: 98 times
Has Liked: 1 time

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby claret2018 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:45 pm

Damo wrote:In instances like this, they should prosecute every person who has access to the vehicle. The threat of that would make people remember who the culprit was, and close this loophole for good


I can't see any problem with this idea at all

# 41
Rileybobs
Posts: 6009
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 2572 times
Has Liked: 594 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Rileybobs » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:08 pm

dsr wrote:All those who share a car and keep a detailed log of who was driving and where, stand up now.

I don't see many people standing. Who in the real world does that?


I would definitely be able to recall who was driving the vehicle on said day in a specified location. Maybe if you can’t then you should keep a log. See my balaclava scenario above.

# 42
dsr
Posts: 8485
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 2569 times
Has Liked: 1097 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby dsr » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:28 pm

Rileybobs wrote:I would definitely be able to recall who was driving the vehicle on said day in a specified location. Maybe if you can’t then you should keep a log. See my balaclava scenario above.

That's pretty impressive. Not many of us, if asked who went to the shop for a bottle of milk 6 weeks ago, would have such prefect recall. I'e just come back from a week in Ireland with my brother and I both driving, and I'm willing to bet that if you were to ask in 6 weeks' time which of us did the daily shop on Tuesday, I wouldn't know. Well, I don't know now as it happens.

# 43
Rileybobs
Posts: 6009
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 2572 times
Has Liked: 594 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Rileybobs » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:43 pm

dsr wrote:That's pretty impressive. Not many of us, if asked who went to the shop for a bottle of milk 6 weeks ago, would have such prefect recall. I'e just come back from a week in Ireland with my brother and I both driving, and I'm willing to bet that if you were to ask in 6 weeks' time which of us did the daily shop on Tuesday, I wouldn't know. Well, I don't know now as it happens.


Most people have routines and make the same journeys on the same days there or thereabouts - not always, granted. Your trip in Ireland would be an exception I imagine. I am very confident that I would be able to tell you who out of my partner and I was making said journey. If in doubt, there is a good chance that an appointment in our respective diaries would give it away.

Edit - failing that I can use location services on my phone which have a comprehensive list of places I’ve visited and on which date. If the OP has an iPhone then he and his wife could do the same.

# 44
dsr
Posts: 8485
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 2569 times
Has Liked: 1097 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby dsr » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:07 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Most people have routines and make the same journeys on the same days there or thereabouts - not always, granted. Your trip in Ireland would be an exception I imagine. I am very confident that I would be able to tell you who out of my partner and I was making said journey. If in doubt, there is a good chance that an appointment in our respective diaries would give it away.

Edit - failing that I can use location services on my phone which have a comprehensive list of places I’ve visited and on which date. If the OP has an iPhone then he and his wife could do the same.

Diary appointments don't help with who'#s doing the shopping. The phone might help, if they weren't both in the car and if it was switched on. (I presume a switched off iphone doesn't broadcast its location?)

Of you and your partner, who bought the bottle of milk on 31st May or nearest day thereto?

# 45
Rileybobs
Posts: 6009
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 2572 times
Has Liked: 594 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Rileybobs » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:17 pm

dsr wrote:Diary appointments don't help with who'#s doing the shopping. The phone might help, if they weren't both in the car and if it was switched on. (I presume a switched off iphone doesn't broadcast its location?)

Of you and your partner, who bought the bottle of milk on 31st May or nearest day thereto?


Well firstly I do my shopping online. But secondly I note that 31st May was a Friday. I often have a couple of lunchtime beers and sometimes stay out after work and catch up with mates for a few. So I take the train into work unless I have a meeting that I need to drive to.

Having consulted my calendar, I didn’t have any appointments outside of the office on that day so it stands to reason I used the train. My iPhone location services show me at Leeds Station on that morning which backs that up. Curiously it shows me at my mates house in the evening which reminds me that it was his wedding the morning after and as his best man I stayed at his the evening before and drunk quite a lot of scotch.

Too much information, I know, but goes some way to proving my point.

# 46
Bosscat
Posts: 5408
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:51 am
Been Liked: 1610 times
Has Liked: 4382 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Bosscat » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:18 pm

Notice of Impending prosecution1 .jpg
Notice of Impending prosecution1 .jpg (65.94 KiB) Viewed 1340 times
Notice of Impending prosecutio 2.jpg
Notice of Impending prosecutio 2.jpg (63.48 KiB) Viewed 1340 times

# 47
The Quattro
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:45 pm
Been Liked: 11 times
Has Liked: 10 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby The Quattro » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:32 pm

The test in these cases is whether or not the identity of the driver could be ascertained by exercising due diligence. You would need to demonstrate that you took all reasonable steps to identify the driver.

Particularly relevant to you is the stated case of Marshall v CPS 2015.

http://stokenewingtonchambers.co.uk/wp- ... allcps.pdf

# 48
dsr
Posts: 8485
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 2569 times
Has Liked: 1097 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby dsr » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:35 pm

I wonder about the legality of not releasing the photo before the court hearing. There are no other criminal offences, so far as I know, where the prosecution isn't obliged to tell the defendant what the evidence is against him.

The other one I wonder about is what happens if the husband and wife (whether genuinely or because they are trying it on) each declare that the other was driving. Does the court toss a coin?

Or as an even sneakier complication, what happens if husband and wife both claim to have been driving? Or perhaps both say that they can't be sure, but each of them believes themselves to have been driving? Can they both be convicted of the same defence, in cricumstances where for any other offence both would be acquitted? Or does the court toss a coin again?

# 49
dsr
Posts: 8485
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 2569 times
Has Liked: 1097 times

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby dsr » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:36 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Well firstly I do my shopping online. But secondly I note that 31st May was a Friday. I often have a couple of lunchtime beers and sometimes stay out after work and catch up with mates for a few. So I take the train into work unless I have a meeting that I need to drive to.

Having consulted my calendar, I didn’t have any appointments outside of the office on that day so it stands to reason I used the train. My iPhone location services show me at Leeds Station on that morning which backs that up. Curiously it shows me at my mates house in the evening which reminds me that it was his wedding the morning after and as his best man I stayed at his the evening before and drunk quite a lot of scotch.

Too much information, I know, but goes some way to proving my point.

You're way ahead of me on the digital information stakes. If one of us gets accused of murder, I hope it's you - you'll have the better alibi! :twisted:

# 50
Rileybobs
Posts: 6009
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 2572 times
Has Liked: 594 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Speeding Conviction Where Photo Inconclusive

Postby Rileybobs » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:39 pm

dsr wrote:You're way ahead of me on the digital information stakes. If one of us gets accused of murder, I hope it's you - you'll have the better alibi! :twisted:


Only if it’s on a Friday!! :D


Return to “The Bee Hole End”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alanstevensonsgloves, BFC183, Bosscat, BOYSIE31, Buxtonclaret, Devils_Advocate, Google [Bot], Lord Beamish, Mala591, MSN [Bot], Rileybobs, RVclaret, SparkyClaret, Tricky Trevor, wilks_bfc, willsclarets and 135 guests