England v New Zealand

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Longside4evr
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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Longside4evr » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:16 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Next challenge - to win them all outside England.
We did one of them

and Australia on 22 November 2003 at Telstra Stadium in Sydney in front of a crowd of 82,957. England won 20–17 to win the Webb Ellis Cup for the first time, also becoming the first Europea

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:17 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:I came out of this final with a feeling of such pride for our lads with their never day die attitude. But also one of utmost respect for New Zealand. A game between 22 gentlemen
I reckon we should still keep it though.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:17 pm

Longside4evr wrote:We did one of them

and Australia on 22 November 2003 at Telstra Stadium in Sydney in front of a crowd of 82,957. England won 20–17 to win the Webb Ellis Cup for the first time, also becoming the first Europea
Like I say - to do all of them.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Longside4evr » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:18 pm

Why does it matter where you win it

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:20 pm

Longside4evr wrote:Why does it matter where you win it
It's pretty obvious to be fair.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Longside4evr » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:21 pm

FactualFrank wrote:It's pretty obvious to be fair.
Ok

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:26 pm

Longside4evr wrote:Ok
Well it is - you're the host, you're going to get more fans. That's basic common sense.

And that's nothing against the win, it's more to do with adding an extra challenge to the cricket and football teams, to try and at some point do it in a foreign land. Which I'm sure we'll do at some point in the future.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by jrgbfc » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:27 pm

Up there with the Miracle of Medinah in the Ryder Cup as the best sporting event I've ever watched I think.
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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:29 pm

jrgbfc wrote:Up there with the Miracle of Medinah in the Ryder Cup as the best sporting event I've ever watched I think.
I'd go along with that. That's certainly the best golfing tournament I've ever seen.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Pearcey » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:33 pm

Absolutely incredible! I’ve never felt so emotional whilst watching or playing a game of cricket. Brilliant!!

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Bangers&Mash » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:42 pm

Outstanding performance by the Irishman for England...

That 4 from Rick O'Shea was invaluable
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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by !aiboforceN » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:54 pm

2/3rds of the matches in the tournament were won by the team batting first.
Despite the close result today - and the luck - it was no small achievement to win both the Semi and the final chasing.
Fabulous game - there were times I couldn't watch it was that tense.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Grimsdale » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:13 pm

Gotta feel for the Kiwi fans back in NZ - not only have they stayed up all night to see their team lose by the cruellest of margins, they have to go to work now.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by wembley94 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:19 pm

Surely there cannot be a closer.more knife edge game in any sport

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:22 pm

wembley94 wrote:Surely there cannot be a closer.more knife edge game in any sport
Well Man City winning the title within the last few seconds I'd say beats it, along with the Ryder Cup win. It's just because it's happened within the last few hours that people will think it's the best ever.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:23 pm

not as good as Parky's last gasp equalizer at Grimsby imho

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by wembley94 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:31 pm

FactualFrank Not sure Man City won the WORLD CUP

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Longside4evr » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:34 pm

Grimsdale wrote:Gotta feel for the Kiwi fans back in NZ - not only have they stayed up all night to see their team lose by the cruellest of margins, they have to go to work now.
Lol I said that word for word after the match to friends I was watching it with
It felt same as that in 83 when we arrived back in Burnley after getting relegated by Palace

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:34 pm

wembley94 wrote:FactualFrank Not sure Man City won the WORLD CUP
And you'd be correct. However you never stated it was a more knife-edge game in a World Cup. You put:
wembley94 wrote:Surely there cannot be a closer.more knife edge game in any sport
Man City winning the league was surely a more knife edge finish, as we're talking about any sport in any competition, not just a World Cup.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by bfcmik » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:35 pm

wembley94 wrote:Surely there cannot be a closer.more knife edge game in any sport
wembley94 wrote:FactualFrank Not sure Man City won the WORLD CUP
You said any game not just world cups
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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:08 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I’ve had a break and been for something to eat but I’m still struggling to believe what I’ve seen.

I had all but given it up at one point and then came the tension of the Stokes/Buttler partnership, thinking if either of them got out it would be fatal.

Those two brought us back in but with an over to go I thought we’d lose, then I thought we’d do it after the overthrows. Then the super over and all that drama.

I’ve always loved cricket but in 60 years or so if watching I’ve never seen anything like that.

The only disappointing thing now is this competition is over.
All credit to Ben Stokes,he's made mistakes but surely this tournament will be his lasting legacy,his sheer bloody mindedness got England over the line,yes he got the rub of the green,but he earned that stroke of luck by his batting,Buttler too played a vital role in hauling England back from the brink of defeat.

I must admit there was several occasions i thought it was slipping away,Buttler's wicket,and the Trent Boult failed catch,another foot and Stokes would have been walking back to the long room,and even in the final over of the regular innings,Boult's firsy 2 deliveries were bang on the money,Stokes could have settled for a single,but he backed himself and then that 6 what a shot in the circumstances,that brought belief,and then the crazy "6" the ball afterwards,even then New Zealand nearly snatched it,and in the super over i thought Archer's nerves would crack,the wide and then the 6 from Neesham,but his last 4 deliveries were fearless,and the fielding was outstanding.

The Ashes has a lot to live up to,to follow that drama.
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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Dyched » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:41 pm

Superb victory. Great watch from not the biggest cricket fan.

Can someone explain why weren’t NZ winners having got to the total with 2 wickets remaining?

Seems odd the England were winners based on boundaries hit.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by tybfc » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:45 pm

Well after playing and watching cricket for over 50 years I have never witnessed a game like todays.

Absolutely brilliant entertainment and both sides put on a fantastic spectacle.

The bowlers all did their jobs and Buttler and Stokes were magnificent on a tricky pitch with the bat.

Had a great day.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by WestMidsClaret » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:46 pm

New Zealand batted first. So they set the total runs needed to get. If this match had been played years ago NZ would've won if it was tied by way of losing less wickets. As the game was still tied after 1 super over each the next best thing to separate them was who had got the most boundaries in the whole game. In reply to Dyched.
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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by tybfc » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:12 am

Dyched wrote:Superb victory. Great watch from not the biggest cricket fan.

Can someone explain why weren’t NZ winners having got to the total with 2 wickets remaining?

Seems odd the England were winners based on boundaries hit.
Briefly these are the rules

In the event of the scores being level in the Super Over, the first satisfied of the following criteria will determine the winner:

The team with the most number of Boundaries(Sixes+Fours) combined from the main match and the Super Over is the winner.

The team with the most number of Boundaries(Sixes+Fours) from the main match (that is, not including the Super Over) is the winner.

A count-back from the final ball of the Super Over shall be conducted. The team with the higher scoring delivery is the winner. Runs scored from illegal deliveries count towards the total for the following legal delivery.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by dsr » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:18 am

FactualFrank wrote:Next challenge - to win them all outside England.
To be fair, Great Britain won the rugby world cup in France in both 1954 and 1972, as well as in England in 1960. So as the Great Britain side didn't get all that much help from the lesser rugby-playing countries - though Billy Boston and a few other Welshmen may have helped out - it was "almost" an England team.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:21 am

dsr wrote:To be fair, Great Britain won the rugby world cup in France in both 1954 and 1972, as well as in England in 1960. So as the Great Britain side didn't get all that much help from the lesser rugby-playing countries - though Billy Boston and a few other Welshmen may have helped out - it was "almost" an England team.
Listen... dsr, I don't want to hear any of this 'almost' nonsense. I want to see it done properly! :)

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:36 am

FactualFrank wrote:Listen... dsr, I don't want to hear any of this 'almost' nonsense. I want to see it done properly! :)
They were more English than this team of nomads. Not having a pop at them it's the way modern international sport is going.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:40 am

Tricky Trevor wrote:They were more English than this team of nomads. Not having a pop at them it's the way modern international sport is going.
But didn't they win the Rugby World Cup in 2003, in Oz? Which only leaves the cricket and football teams anyway?

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by chipbutty » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:47 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Wow. Never ever watched a game of cricket before. Watched that last hour and a half.

Won’t necessarily be a cricket fan after that. But that was an outstanding spectacle.

Has to go down as one of the greatest sporting finales ever.
Never watched a game of cricket before? !!!"!!!
And the nominations for the most ironic udername are.....

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Too old to be grumpy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:48 am

I am still trying to convince myself that what I saw actually happened. The word ‘unbelievable’ is used far too often to describe dramatic events but not this one. Each side deserved to win and neither deserved to lose and the match stats reflect that. The main determining factor was good fortune of which England had plenty and the Kiwis had none. As sporting spectacles go this must surely go down as one of the greatest ever.
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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Wile E Coyote » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:52 am

wow, 10 teams and england won, imagine that

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by CBT » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:20 am

Too old to be grumpy wrote:I am still trying to convince myself that what I saw actually happened. The word ‘unbelievable’ is used far too often to describe dramatic events but not this one. Each side deserved to win and neither deserved to lose and the match stats reflect that. The main determining factor was good fortune of which England had plenty and the Kiwis had none. As sporting spectacles go this must surely go down as one of the greatest ever.
It was fixed

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:42 am

Stokes thought he was mentally and physically drained but he didn't have to watch it.

Brilliant England 8-)

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:39 am

FactualFrank wrote:Well it is - you're the host, you're going to get more fans. That's basic common sense.

And that's nothing against the win, it's more to do with adding an extra challenge to the cricket and football teams, to try and at some point do it in a foreign land. Which I'm sure we'll do at some point in the future.
Try telling Brazil that who let 7 in at the maracana against germany in 2014.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Stayingup » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:49 am

One thing for sure the New Zealanders are more courteous, sporting and less arrogant than their near neighbours.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Dyched » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:54 am

tybfc wrote:Briefly these are the rules

In the event of the scores being level in the Super Over, the first satisfied of the following criteria will determine the winner:

The team with the most number of Boundaries(Sixes+Fours) combined from the main match and the Super Over is the winner.

The team with the most number of Boundaries(Sixes+Fours) from the main match (that is, not including the Super Over) is the winner.

A count-back from the final ball of the Super Over shall be conducted. The team with the higher scoring delivery is the winner. Runs scored from illegal deliveries count towards the total for the following legal delivery.
I understood that ty.

But it’s strange how England won on boundaries rather than NZ for losing less wickets.

It’d make more sense for the winners to be chosen on firstly (obviously) runs scored and if level who lost the least wickets.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:56 am

Dyched wrote:I understood that ty.

But it’s strange how England won on boundaries rather than NZ for losing less wickets.

It’d make more sense for the winners to be chosen on firstly (obviously) runs scored and if level who lost the least wickets.
I was surprised they were the rules to be honest, but one way or the other someone had to win and someone had to lose the most incredible game of cricket.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Dyched » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:58 am

ClaretTony wrote:I was surprised they were the rules to be honest, but one way or the other someone had to win and someone had to lose the most incredible game of cricket.
Yep. Gotta feel for NZ especially as that Stokes/Overthrow happened as well.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Spijed » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:59 am

Dyched wrote:I understood that ty.

But it’s strange how England won on boundaries rather than NZ for losing less wickets.

It’d make more sense for the winners to be chosen on firstly (obviously) runs scored and if level who lost the least wickets.
Unless it's the modern philosophy of attacking sport, such as encouraging teams to attack more (goals in football) and a bigger incentive for teams to hit boundaries.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Steve1956 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:02 am

Just out of interest how many boundaries did we score more than NZ?

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:04 am

Steve1956 wrote:Just out of interest how many more boundaries did we score more than NZ?
New Zealand
14 fours and 2 sixes

England
22 fours and 2 sixes

We went into the super over with an advantage of 8 although those in the super over needed to be added to those totals.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by martin_p » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:05 am

Steve1956 wrote:Just out of interest how many boundaries did we score more than NZ?
Think it was 7 or 8.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by martin_p » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:06 am

ClaretTony wrote:New Zealand
14 fours and 2 sixes

England
22 fours and 2 sixes

We went into the super over with an advantage of 8 although those in the super over needed to be added to those totals.
Which made it mathematically impossible for NZ to win by that method, hence them knowing they needed 16.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:10 am

martin_p wrote:Which made it mathematically impossible for NZ to win by that method, hence them knowing they needed 16.
Absolutely, one of the commentators said before it started that we were too far in front on boundaries should the super over be tied.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Steve1956 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:12 am

ClaretTony wrote:New Zealand
14 fours and 2 sixes

England
22 fours and 2 sixes

We went into the super over with an advantage of 8 although those in the super over needed to be added to those totals.
With how tight the game was I wouldn't have been surprised if there had only been one boundary in it . :lol:

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by Goobs » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:39 am

Steve1956 wrote:Just out of interest how many boundaries did we score more than NZ?
Think it was 26 - 17

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:47 am

Goobs wrote:Think it was 26 - 17
That's bang on. I got the 24-16 prior to the super over and we hit two fours in ours while they had one six.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by TheFamilyCat » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:52 am

New Zealand were much better at keeping the score ticking over with ones and twos so it was no surprise that we had to hit so many more boundaries to tie the game.

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Re: England v New Zealand

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:56 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:New Zealand were much better at keeping the score ticking over with ones and twos so it was no surprise that we had to hit so many more boundaries to tie the game.
I'm sure I posted something on the thread at the time when I thought we were losing it, but New Zealand were consistent throughout their innings, running at over 4 per over and increasing it only marginally before the end of the innings. We failed to do that and suddenly we found ourselves chasing over 5 and then at 6 an over when Stokes & Buttler were in rescue mode.

But if anyone questions how difficult that wicket was, Buttler faced 60 deliveries and scored only six boundaries.

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