Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

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bfcjg
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Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by bfcjg » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:02 am

How's this going to end up ? I bet Teresa May is hoping it drags out a bit then it's over to you Boris. Do we talk do we bomb them do we send our tiny slashed to the bone navy out there ? America is itching for a fight could it be the excuse they want ? Will the EU on who's behalf we seized a ship do anything.
For me I think we negotiate and let them realise their country will economically die if they persist.
Bring on electric cars.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Shore claret » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:28 am

I hope we keep well away, leave it to the yanks.
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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by SonofPog » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:37 am

I think we should organise a Coup, perhaps if we overthrow their government we can install a regime that is more amiable to our needs., (Potentially we could even tap into Iran's Oil itself, perhaps with some form of Anglo-Iranian Oil Company.)

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Steve1956 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:37 am

Ask Trump for help...sit back and relax ;)

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Stayingup » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:56 am

bfcjg wrote:How's this going to end up ? I bet Teresa May is hoping it drags out a bit then it's over to you Boris. Do we talk do we bomb them do we send our tiny slashed to the bone navy out there ? America is itching for a fight could it be the excuse they want ? Will the EU on who's behalf we seized a ship do anything.
For me I think we negotiate and let them realise their country will economically die if they persist.
Bring on electric cars.
Why do you think America is itching for a fight? I rather think its the Iranians. Best excuse they - the ayatollahs- could have for the state of penury which they have brought upon their people.

This could well escalate now. Who would support us? Dont look to Europe they won't. USA would. The country whose president has been roundly lambasted by many of our politicians recently.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by SonofPog » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:01 pm

" The country whose president has been roundly lambasted by many of our politicians recently."

One of the reasons for that lambasting was pulling out of the Iran Nuclear Deal that started this tit for tat tanker taking.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by duncandisorderly » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:16 pm

SonofPog wrote:I think we should organise a Coup, perhaps if we overthrow their government we can install a regime that is more amiable to our needs.
Sort of like a Mullah Light?
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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by evensteadiereddie » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:20 pm

Without the Yanks, we'd get mullahed. Best to sort out our own wretched mess at home first, I reckon.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by tim_noone » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:50 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Without the Yanks, we'd get mullahed. Best to sort out our own wretched mess at home first, I reckon.
What mess is that Eddie? I've had the TV off all week...

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by evensteadiereddie » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:53 pm

It's fine, tim, it's fine.
Trump's not a racist and our future PM knew that the Isle of Man wasn't in the EU or governed by the UK really.....
Nothing can possibly go wrong.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:33 pm

Was always going to be America's next conflict, they seem to like picking them in the Arab world.

As usual we are getting dragged into it.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by bfcjg » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:17 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Was always going to be America's next conflict, they seem to like picking them in the Arab world.

As usual we are getting dragged into it.
The problem is it's our ship though. We do though seem to be the only Western power who attempt to enforce UN and EU sanctions alongside the USA. Are we mugs , naive or honourable ?
I think a bit of all three TBH.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:27 pm

bfcjg wrote:The problem is it's our ship though. We do though seem to be the only Western power who attempt to enforce UN and EU sanctions alongside the USA. Are we mugs , naive or honourable ?
I think a bit of all three TBH.
I reckon you are two out of the three

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by bfcjg » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:34 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:I reckon you are two out of the three
I won't be sad cos two out of three ain't bad.
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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Taffy on the wing » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:42 pm

bfcjg wrote:The problem is it's our ship though. We do though seem to be the only Western power who attempt to enforce UN and EU sanctions alongside the USA. Are we mugs , naive or honourable ?
I think a bit of all three TBH.
Delusional more like it...........just like you Brexiteers! Longing for the days of Empire.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by bfcjg » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:47 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:Delusional more like it...........just like you Brexiteers! Longing for the days of Empire.
FFS don't turn this into another bl00dy Brexit thread.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:19 pm

bfcjg wrote:The problem is it's our ship though. We do though seem to be the only Western power who attempt to enforce UN and EU sanctions alongside the USA. Are we mugs , naive or honourable ?
I think a bit of all three TBH.
Yeah it's our ship and bizarrely the MoD or the government failed in their duty to protect ships in a hostile area :roll:
If they'd escorted the ships properly then we wouldn't be having them seized by the Iranian Guards.

We get dragged into yet another crappy war because that's what the US wants.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Stayingup » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:40 pm

SonofPog wrote:" The country whose president has been roundly lambasted by many of our politicians recently."

One of the reasons for that lambasting was pulling out of the Iran Nuclear Deal that started this tit for tat tanker taking.
Well, if the Iranians had spent the money they got from relaxing sanctions as part of the deal on their people instead of fermenting trouble by suppirting terrorist groups in the middle east and stopped enriching plutonium the USA might not have pulled out of the deal.
Make no mistake the Iranian rulers are a dangerous malicious lot.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Stayingup » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:43 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Was always going to be America's next conflict, they seem to like picking them in the Arab world.

As usual we are getting dragged into it.
Could that be because of things like hijacking two UK registered oil tankers and treating Mrs Ratcliffe as a spy?

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:43 pm

Stayingup wrote:Well, if the Iranians had spent the money they got from relaxing sanctions as part of the deal on their people instead of fermenting trouble by suppirting terrorist groups in the middle east and stopped enriching plutonium the USA might not have pulled out of the deal.
Make no mistake the Iranian rulers are a dangerous malicious lot.
I dont think anyones defending Iran or not aware of the danger they pose but there are ways of handling these situations and Trump just seems like an accident waiting to happen (and it wont be him or his cronies who get caught in the crossfire)

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Stayingup » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:46 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Yeah it's our ship and bizarrely the MoD or the government failed in their duty to protect ships in a hostile area :roll:
If they'd escorted the ships properly then we wouldn't be having them seized by the Iranian Guards.

We get dragged into yet another crappy war because that's what the US wants.
How do you know tge USA wants a war? Why would they? Just think.

What they probably want is for Iran to stop meddling in other countries affairs in the Middle Esst AND in Europe. Granted they are not the only power in that region that meddles and fights proxy wars.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by bfcjg » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:58 pm

Worryingly the leaders of Iran believe their Prophet will return when the world is in chaos due to wars etc and are actively pushing for conflict hoping also to drag Israel in. Worrying times.
https://www.thoughtco.com/who-is-the-12th-imam-3555177" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Taffy on the wing » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:57 pm

bfcjg wrote:Worryingly the leaders of Iran believe their Prophet will return when the world is in chaos due to wars etc and are actively pushing for conflict hoping also to drag Israel in. Worrying times.
https://www.thoughtco.com/who-is-the-12th-imam-3555177" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just like the Evangelical nut jobs then!

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Pstotto » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:09 pm

No, Meestairrrr Bond.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by SGr » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:14 pm

Iran’s problem is they’re just as proud as the US and NATO. They’re more interested in saving face and standing up to the former than they are in preserving their current administration and way of life...

...which is a mistake, when you’re up against a vastly more powerful organisation. Whatever the mess was made of Iraq and Afghanistan, the balance of power changed enormously. I don’t think that’s truly in Iran’s interests.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:48 pm

Keep well out of it.We owe the Yanks sfa .Our "special "relationship has created chaos for us with our homegrown fundamentalist loony fringe.We dont need another war blindly following Trump
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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Vino blanco » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:07 pm

Lest we forget the 1.4 Million American troops killed or injured in both World Wars.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by bfcjg » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:10 pm

British Airways now cancelling flights to Cairo, might be connected . These things soon get out of hand.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Elbarad » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:55 pm

Trying to figure why you're all convinced Trump wants a war with Iran. Just a few weeks ago people were complaining that he didn't do an air strike against Iran.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:03 pm

Stayingup wrote:Well, if the Iranians had spent the money they got from relaxing sanctions as part of the deal on their people instead of fermenting trouble by suppirting terrorist groups in the middle east and stopped enriching plutonium the USA might not have pulled out of the deal.
Make no mistake the Iranian rulers are a dangerous malicious lot.
I was like this once. I supported the second Iraq war just as unquestioningly as this, at the time. Except i knew the difference between uranium and plutonium.

In a few years, Stayingup, you're going to realise that actually while our enemies are indeed "a dangerous malicious lot", we are in fact not much different.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Stayingup » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:17 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I was like this once. I supported the second Iraq war just as unquestioningly as this, at the time. Except i knew the difference between uranium and plutonium.

In a few years, Stayingup, you're going to realise that actually while our enemies are indeed "a dangerous malicious lot", we are in fact not much different.
Great. I knew you would jump at Plutonium. But well done. IT. I actually get my information about Iran from Iranians living here and in France. They detest the regime. I have visited Iran and find that the people are both talented and polite. The regime has almost beggared the majority. Not quite like here is it?

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:23 pm

Stayingup wrote:Great. I knew you would jump at Plutonium. But well done. IT. I actually get my information about Iran from Iranians living here and in France. They detest the regime. I have visited Iran and find that the people are both talented and polite. The regime has almost beggared the majority. Not quite like here is it?
It's not just this one either. I remember having actual hope for the Iranians during the protests/uprising a few years before the Arab spring but when the video of the death of Neda wasn't enough for the rest of us to give much of a toss then i knew that they were on their own. And on their own wouldn't be enough against a government and military that has no problem hosing down protesters like that.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:51 pm

Shore claret wrote:I hope we keep well away, leave it to the yanks.

Why would we keep well away when British merchants are being seized, harassed and attacked?

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:03 pm

My late granddad was in the merchant navy. He’ll be spinning in his grave if there was talk of us abandoning folk like him (no British citizens I accept, but a British flag, that probably shouldn’t matter).

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Stayingup » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:07 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's not just this one either. I remember having actual hope for the Iranians during the protests/uprising a few years before the Arab spring but when the video of the death of Neda wasn't enough for the rest of us to give much of a toss then i knew that they were on their own. And on their own wouldn't be enough against a government and military that has no problem hosing down protesters like that.
Absolutely right IT. Saudi much different?

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:23 pm

Stayingup wrote:Absolutely right IT. Saudi much different?
Worse, but they're an ally so it's OK for them to do it because we're hypocrites.

Image

Of course, if our politicians call barbaric Islamic fundamentalists our "friends" no one bats an eye, because we're selling them arms. But if Corbyn does it everyone loses their minds.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Burnley Ace » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:19 pm

Let them keep it - Swedish owned and no UK citizens on board. Freeze all Iranian assets under anti terrorism, crime and security act and put money in escrow account.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by bfcjg » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:23 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Worse, but they're an ally so it's OK for them to do it because we're hypocrites.

Image

Of course, if our politicians call barbaric Islamic fundamentalists our "friends" no one bats an eye, because we're selling them arms. But if Corbyn does it everyone loses their minds.
As soon as we stop selling them arms Rusia, America, France, Germany China India, Turkey etc will however the workers at BAE will be more than compensated not only with the minimum redundancy they will get but the glowing warmth in their hearts that the liberal elite condescending sh1tes will for a period of time until the next bandwagon they can jump on spare them a thought as their homes are repossessed and skill base lost whilst they manufacture ploughs from recycled CNC lathes for the vegan co operatives who are rushing to get a crop in before Russia invades.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:30 am

bfcjg wrote:As soon as we stop selling them arms Rusia, America, France, Germany China India, Turkey etc will however the workers at BAE will be more than compensated not only with the minimum redundancy they will get but the glowing warmth in their hearts that the liberal elite condescending sh1tes will for a period of time until the next bandwagon they can jump on spare them a thought as their homes are repossessed and skill base lost whilst they manufacture ploughs from recycled CNC lathes for the vegan co operatives who are rushing to get a crop in before Russia invades.
Zero principles, then. Aside from profit, of course.

And people wonder why i think this country, and the values it claims to hold, is just a load of ********.

Why not sell to Iran, then? Or Pakistan (we probably are), or Syria, or literally any country?

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by bfcjg » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:03 am

'"Why not sell to Iran, then? Or Pakistan (we probably are), or Syria, or literally any country? "
Nobody forces countries to buy weapons. We choose to sell to who we want, I bet if you were a Russian citizen and stood in red square with a megaphone screaming don't sell weapons to Syria you would disappear.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Corky » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:24 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Was always going to be America's next conflict, they seem to like picking them in the Arab world.

As usual we are getting dragged into it.
by

Iranians aren't Arabs they're Persians.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Spijed » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:29 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Worse, but they're an ally so it's OK for them to do it because we're hypocrites.

Image

Of course, if our politicians call barbaric Islamic fundamentalists our "friends" no one bats an eye, because we're selling them arms. But if Corbyn does it everyone loses their minds.
That's just it. For some reason they way people are beheaded in Saudi Arabia is seen as being far less barbaric.

They stone people to death too.

Let's be clear here, the Saudi Arabian government are FAR more ruthless than Islamic State ever will be.
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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by taio » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:39 am

Spijed wrote:Let's be clear here, the Saudi Arabian government are FAR more ruthless than Islamic State ever will be.
I'd be interested to know how you can defend such ridiculousness. I particularly like FAR.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Spijed » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:48 am

taio wrote:I'd be interested to know how you can defend such ridiculousness. I particularly like FAR.
Why is it ridiculous?

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by taio » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:54 am

Spijed wrote:Why is it ridiculous?
Explain why they are FAR more ruthless

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Spijed » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:04 am

taio wrote:Explain why they are FAR more ruthless
Because they have got more powerful weapons at their disposal, such as warplanes.

And they have been given the green light to kill innocent civilians. They know that they are allowed to kill as many people as they want because of arms sales. The cold blooded killing of the children in the school bus in Yemen was a prime example of this.

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by taio » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:16 am

Spijed wrote:Because they have got more powerful weapons at their disposal, such as warplanes.

And they have been given the green light to kill innocent civilians. They know that they are allowed to kill as many people as they want because of arms sales. The cold blooded killing of the children in the school bus in Yemen was a prime example of this.
How does that make them far more ruthless? ISIS would obviously be far more ruthless if they had such military capability.

By the way ISIS kill children too..

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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by Long Time Lurker » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:33 am

In regard to the Nationalist perspective it isn't even our ship. Companies register ships under "flags of convenience" to lower operating costs, take advantage of less stringent regulations and benefit from financial perks.

We used to be the primary destination for registering ships from all over the world, but our place in the market is diminishing. Ships are increasingly being registered in places like Panama, Singapore, Liberia, The Marshall islands and Hong Kong. In a bit of a bizarre twist it would be perfectly possible to register a British owned and crewed ship in Iran and sail her under an Iranian flag.

The Stena Impero is actually a Swedish vessel that is crewed primarily by Indians and nationalities other than English.

It is fair to say that the ship is being operated by a Clyde based subsidiary of the Swedish owners, but that could amount to a single person in an office ( or simply the name of an English national on a piece of paper ) that was put in place to satisfy the registration requirements.

As to why Trump might strive to increase tensions a number of reasons could be put forward.

Iran has rich oil reserves. Stopping them from trading lowers supply and increases oil prices and trade opportunities for other big oil suppliers ( like America ).

If the outcome is a costly war oil prices rise even higher amidst market instability and a "regime change" would offer the potential for acquiring the oil assets of Iran.

Starting a War is a widely accepted political strategy for gaining votes prior to an election.

Wars are incredibly profitable for a select group of people / companies and incredibly costly for everyone else.

As to why a ship loosely associated with us was taken.

America has few commercial ships in the area.

We stuck our neck out and involved ourselves in this affair instead of letting America handle it.

Worst case scenario

We deal with a whole load of crap and become the focal point for increasing tensions, brought about by the provocative strategies of the Trump administration. America raises the "we are the good guy" flag, comes to our aid and conveniently ( for them ) kick off. Dumb move on the part of the Iranians.

Best case scenario

We recognise this as an inconvenient administration problem and put Tracy the intern from the legal department on it.

If things get a lot worse then we ask Sweden to send Sven to Iran with a tempting Smorgasbord of fish products.

Alternatively, we recognise that India is one of the biggest importers of Iranian goods and we happily pass the problem on to them, considering that 18 of their citizens are being held against their will.

tim_noone
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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by tim_noone » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:42 am

Long Time Lurker wrote:In regard to the Nationalist perspective it isn't even our ship. Companies register ships under "flags of convenience" to lower operating costs, take advantage of less stringent regulations and benefit from financial perks.

We used to be the primary destination for registering ships from all over the world, but our place in the market is diminishing. Ships are increasingly being registered in places like Panama, Singapore, Liberia, The Marshall islands and Hong Kong. In a bit of a bizarre twist it would be perfectly possible to register a British owned and crewed ship in Iran and sail her under an Iranian flag.

The Stena Impero is actually a Swedish vessel that is crewed primarily by Indians and nationalities other than English.

It is fair to say that the ship is being operated by a Clyde based subsidiary of the Swedish owners, but that could amount to a single person in an office ( or simply the name of an English national on a piece of paper ) that was put in place to satisfy the registration requirements.

As to why Trump might strive to increase tensions a number of reasons could be put forward.

Iran has rich oil reserves. Stopping them from trading lowers supply and increases oil prices and trade opportunities for other big oil suppliers ( like America ).

If the outcome is a costly war oil prices rise even higher amidst market instability and a "regime change" would offer the potential for acquiring the oil assets of Iran.

Starting a War is a widely accepted political strategy for gaining votes prior to an election.

Wars are incredibly profitable for a select group of people / companies and incredibly costly for everyone else.

As to why a ship loosely associated with us was taken.

America has few commercial ships in the area.

We stuck our neck out and involved ourselves in this affair instead of letting America handle it.

Worst case scenario

We deal with a whole load of crap and become the focal point for increasing tensions, brought about by the provocative strategies of the Trump administration. America raises the "we are the good guy" flag, comes to our aid and conveniently ( for them ) kick off. Dumb move on the part of the Iranians.

Best case scenario

We recognise this as an inconvenient administration problem and put Tracy the intern from the legal department on it.

If things get a lot worse then we ask Sweden to send Sven to Iran with a tempting Smorgasbord of fish products.

Alternatively, we recognise that India is one of the biggest importers of Iranian goods and we happily pass the problem on to them, considering that 18 of their citizens are being held against their will.
Just checked your post thought "will it be a couple of lines" :D you never disappoint.enjoy them Btw.the football in particular.

bfcjg
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Re: Please Mullah can we have our tanker back ?

Post by bfcjg » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:50 pm

Saudi worse then ISIS ? Really ?
https://gulfnews.com/opinion/op-eds/sau ... 1.62394698" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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