Poker

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FactualFrank
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Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:43 pm

I've recently got back into this and started playing at the local social club on Tuesdays, mixed with online. Many poker players on here?

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karatekid
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Re: Poker

Postby karatekid » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:44 pm

I bet there is ;)
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FactualFrank
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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:49 pm

karatekid wrote:I bet there is ;)


With the initials KK, you should have a go! :)

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WestMidsClaret
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Re: Poker

Postby WestMidsClaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:52 pm

Yep. I played online and in a league from 2007 to 2014. Now I only play in casino's.
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FactualFrank
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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:56 pm

WestMidsClaret wrote:Yep. I played online and in a league from 2007 to 2014. Now I only play in casino's.


Casinos are superb for poker, played in many. The downside to online is the speed. I've made a lot more money online as you can find the weaker opponents quicker - which is ultimately how you make the most money.

Which casinos have you played in?

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bfc-sparta
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Re: Poker

Postby bfc-sparta » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:01 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I've recently got back into this and started playing at the local social club on Tuesdays, mixed with online. Many poker players on here?


Which social club you play at? I've just got into poker recently,only played online for fun and not real money.

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FactualFrank
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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:03 pm

bfc-sparta wrote:Which social club you play at? I've just got into poker recently,only played online for fun and not real money.


One in Leeds. Which site do you play on?

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WestMidsClaret
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Re: Poker

Postby WestMidsClaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:06 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Casinos are superb for poker, played in many. The downside to online is the speed. I've made a lot more money online as you can find the weaker opponents quicker - which is ultimately how you make the most money.

Which casinos have you played in?


A lot :lol:

Dusk til dawn, most Genting and Grosvenor casino's in the West midlands, stoke, Cardiff, Plymouth, Leicester, casino mediterraneo and a few more.

I've made a lot more money playing in the casino's. Was a grind online back then.
Last edited by WestMidsClaret on Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poker

Postby bfc-sparta » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:06 pm

Ahhh rite

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FactualFrank
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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:15 pm

WestMidsClaret wrote:A lot :lol:

Dusk til dawn, most Genting and Grosvenor casino's in the West midlands, stoke, Cardiff, Plymouth, Leicester, casino mediterraneo and a few more.

I've made a lot more money playing in the casino's. Was a grind online back then.


I can understand why you like it so much. Especially, if you understand the implied odds. 99% of players I've played with have never even heard of it, nevermind understand it.

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WestMidsClaret
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Re: Poker

Postby WestMidsClaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:27 pm

Poker's probably easier to make money nowadays then it was. Too many just rock up thinking it's an easy game. I put a lot of time and effort in when I first started by watching the pro's/tournaments and reading books. The missus plays too and she's always asking me what I'd do in certain situations. Getting good players opinions can help too. You're always learning.
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FactualFrank
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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:35 pm

WestMidsClaret wrote:Poker's probably easier to make money nowadays then it was. Too many just rock up thinking it's an easy game. I put a lot of time and effort in when I first started by watching the pro's/tournaments and reading books. The missus plays too and she's always asking me what I'd do in certain situations. Getting good players opinions can help too. You're always learning.


You sound similar to me. I agree with you about always learning. I certainly win a lot more than lose, but you'll always have a Maniac or a Fish who comes on and keeps going All-in with a 72o. Then the flop comes and it'll be 77Q. They of course lose a lot more than they win, but bad beats can be so annoying - especially, when they don't acknowledge it!
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DustyBawls
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Re: Poker

Postby DustyBawls » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:37 pm

FactualFrank wrote:You sound similar to me. I agree with you about always learning. I certainly win a lot more than lose, but you'll always have a Maniac or a Fish who comes on and keeps going All-in with a 72o. Then the flop comes and it'll be 77Q. They of course lose a lot more than they win, but bad beats can be so annoying - especially, when they don't acknowledge it!


What is 'o' ?

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FactualFrank
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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:43 pm

DustyBawls wrote:What is 'o' ?


Offsuit. KQo is something like the King of Diamonds and Queen of Spades. KQs (suited) is like the King of Spades and Queen of Spades. 72o is the worst hand in poker, purely down to odds of getting the best hand.

To get a straight would mean a 6-5-4-3 coming down on the flop, turn and river. You also only have the 7 as a kicker for anything like a flush. If 4 of the same suit come down, you know one of the other players is likely to have a higher kicker, especially if they are betting or raising.

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Re: Poker

Postby Hibsclaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:43 pm

It’s a great game that you keep improving but never fully master. I’m happy when I get my chips in good no matter what the outcome. You can often get outdrawn by an idiot that doesn’t understand the odds or implied odds etc but you always want them at your table....
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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:48 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:It’s a great game that you keep improving but never fully master. I’m happy when I get my chips in good no matter what the outcome. You can often get outdrawn by an idiot that doesn’t understand the odds or implied odds etc but you always want them at your table....


Most players don't understand implied odds. Even players who know the hands and the grade of hands still don't know them. You can tell by how they play their hand and whether they call/raise bets.

One of the best things to do for those few who do understand them it to place a bet which mathematically puts the odds against them. Unless they can see your 'tells', they're calling on a bet they shouldn't be calling.

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Re: Poker

Postby Hibsclaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:54 pm

Absolutely. It’s good watching Negreanu’s Vlogs from the World Series. There’s a lot of guff there but he analyses some of the hands etc. There’s all sorts of stuff online these days but I play very regularly (mainly tournaments) and it is important to not get too down on yourself when you are getting bad results but losing on a 3 outer or worse.... Managing your way through a tournament is key to your success. Limiting the all ins at risk etc

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Re: Poker

Postby WestMidsClaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:03 pm

I used to live and breath poker. I still do but don't play as much as I did. I was at a casino nearly every night at one stage a few years ago. I'd watch all the wsop main events on YouTube starting from early 2000's up until whatever year it was. Then I'd watch the final table live, well as live as it could be. Think they used to have a 15 minute delay then they changed it to not showing the cards until after the hand has finished.

Picking up tells to me is one of the most important things. Reads give you so much information. I don't talk a lot at a table apart from when I'm in a big hand. Then the info I get is almost as important as the cards I have.
Last edited by WestMidsClaret on Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FactualFrank
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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:03 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:Absolutely. It’s good watching Negreanu’s Vlogs from the World Series. There’s a lot of guff there but he analyses some of the hands etc. There’s all sorts of stuff online these days but I play very regularly (mainly tournaments) and it is important to not get too down on yourself when you are getting bad results but losing on a 3 outer or worse.... Managing your way through a tournament is key to your success. Limiting the all ins at risk etc


I used to watch the Poker on Sky, but not sure if they show it now.

You mention losing on a 3-outer... they are crap odds anyway. You have around a 6% chance of your hand falling, so not sure why you'd be feeling bad from losing over it. If somebody is betting, it's likely they already have their hand.

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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:11 pm

WestMidsClaret wrote:I used to live and breath poker. I still do but don't play as much as I did. I was at a casino nearly every night at one stage a few years ago. I'd watch all the wsop main events on YouTube starting from early 2000's up until whatever year it was. Then I'd watch the final table live, well as live as it could be. Think they used to have a 15 minute delay then they changed it to not showing the cards until after the hand has finished.

Picking up tells to me is one of the most important things. Reads give you so much information. I don't talk a lot at a table apart from when I'm in a big hand. Then the info I get is almost as important as the cards I have.


Providing it doesn't screw your life up and you're not betting your house, I think Poker is brilliant. I know the % chance of any flop, turn or river, but you still have to calculate the implied odds as every game is different with differing amounts and predicted betting amounts, so it keeps the brain active, that's for sure.

I'd fancy wsop but it's a ridciulous buy-in.

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Re: Poker

Postby Hibsclaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:13 pm

I never feel bad when losing if I make the right play. It’s when you make a mistake that you feel bad. There is lots of variance in poker and you definitely need to run good in tournaments. However, you should only feel bad when u make a mistake.

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FactualFrank
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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:17 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:I never feel bad when losing if I make the right play. It’s when you make a mistake that you feel bad. There is lots of variance in poker and you definitely need to run good in tournaments. However, you should only feel bad when u make a mistake.


If you mean tournaments where once your chips are gone you leave the table - love it.
Have a table of 9-10 people with top 3 finish, and I personally often begin with survival mode - let the others leave the table from going all-in with a medium hand. Get to the final 3, win something, then start going for it.

It works. I would say 8-9 times out of 10 I reach the final 3 in a 9-person table. It's like kamikaze to begin with.

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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:19 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:I never feel bad when losing if I make the right play. It’s when you make a mistake that you feel bad. There is lots of variance in poker and you definitely need to run good in tournaments. However, you should only feel bad when u make a mistake.


And I agree with you about losing when you made the right play. If I bet on the correct odds and lose, there's nothing you can do. You made the correct decision it just didn't work out. You're looking for any card of a suit on the River to make a flush - most of the time it's worth the call unless they bet stupid.

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DustyBawls
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Re: Poker

Postby DustyBawls » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:25 pm

And a suited connecter?

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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:27 pm

A suited connector is just like a 76s. Such as a 7 of Hearts and a 6 of hearts.

If you're just behind the button, it's a medium hand - if nobody raises, it's normally worth calling.

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Re: Poker

Postby Hibsclaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:33 pm

Just keep learning is the way. I have 3 WSOP cashes so far and on 2 of the 3 cashes I have bust out on a bad beat so don’t feel bad about that, the other was a flip. You need to run good and definitely a mix of skill and luck is required.

One of them was just after the bubble with an average stack and pocket 6s. Flop was 6 k 2 rainbow. The big blind called my preflop raise with k9. I bet he check calls. The turn is a 9, he checks I push, he calls. River is another 9 for the bigger house. Just shy of 91% on the river and bust...was a bit narked about that one tbh.

Other times you can play all day and make the odd mistake that affects the whole tournament. Tournaments are largely who makes the least mistakes and running good.

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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:44 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:Just keep learning is the way. I have 3 WSOP cashes so far and on 2 of the 3 cashes I have bust out on a bad beat so don’t feel bad about that, the other was a flip. You need to run good and definitely a mix of skill and luck is required.

One of them was just after the bubble with an average stack and pocket 6s. Flop was 6 k 2 rainbow. The big blind called my preflop raise with k9. I bet he check calls. The turn is a 9, he checks I push, he calls. River is another 9 for the bigger house. Just shy of 91% on the river and bust...was a bit narked about that one tbh.

Other times you can play all day and make the odd mistake that affects the whole tournament. Tournaments are largely who makes the least mistakes and running good.


Yeah he'll have called as he had the highest pair (with the cards he could see).

I'd have probably gone all-in in hindsight, if it was heads-up, thinking he may have a King - which he'd have probably folded, thinking you had pocket Kings or a high kicker.

Then again, he may have been a beginner and gone for it anyway. You began with the better hand but the cards fell for him. I'd call him a lucky git and move on :D

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Re: Poker

Postby Hibsclaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:46 pm

I’m not pushing on a flop with a set. I pushed the turn when he had 2 pair. On a rainbow board like that there is very little beating you and no point pushing.

That’s a hand where you can’t do anything else. He made the mistake calling the turn with 9%. Sometimes the chips are going in.

If there are more players in the hand it may be a different story. That would depend on how many players and hopefully you get more action on the flop in order to push. You have to make money on the 1 in 7 times you flop a set from a pocket pair.
Last edited by Hibsclaret on Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Poker

Postby Imploding Turtle » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:48 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Yeah he'll have called as he had the highest pair (with the cards he could see).

I'd have probably gone all-in in hindsight, if it was heads-up, thinking he may have a King - which he'd have probably folded, thinking you had pocket Kings or a high kicker.

Then again, he may have been a beginner and gone for it anyway. You began with the better hand but the cards fell for him. I'd call him a lucky git and move on :D


Flop's way too dry to shove that spot. The only hands that definitely call are a King, KK, AA, and deuces, and you're going to get paid from those anyway. And you fold out any other hand that you can get value out of, and obviously you fold out his bluffs.

In fact K9 might not even call.
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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:51 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:I’m not pushing on a flop with a set. I pushed the turn when he had 2 pair. On a rainbow board like that there is very little beating you and no point pushing.

That’s a hand where you can’t do anything else. He made the mistake calling the turn with 9%. Sometimes the chips are going in


A rainbow board rules out the flushes, but two 9s came down - that straight away should raise a flag of full house. Quads... probably not, but still with high betting, it shouts out as full house.

You have to think about what he was thinking - he hadn't folded, so he's either majorly bluffing, or he has trips or full house. And he'd have higher trips than you, so I'd have been wary.

Unless you know their tells - you may have thought he was bluffing.

That's why I'd have gone all in - don't give him a chance to see the turn and river. You go all-in, he'll be thinking you have better than a KK hand, which is currently all he sees - the 9s haven't come yet.

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Re: Poker

Postby Hibsclaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:54 pm

The money went in on the turn. He couldn’t have a house. He had 2 pair and 9% equity when the push happened. There’s nothing I can do. He made the mistake and won the hand. The tells were pretty much irrelevant there.

There’s no way you go all in on that flop against 1 blind hand that has flatted. You are playing way too tight if you do.
Last edited by Hibsclaret on Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:55 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Flop's way too dry to shove that spot. The only hands that definitely call are a King, KK, AA, and deuces, and you're going to get paid from those anyway. And you fold out any other hand that you can get value out of, and obviously you fold out his bluffs.

In fact K9 might not even call.


He didn't have K9 - the opposite player had it, which hibs wouldn't know - "The big blind called my preflop raise with k9"

I assume that means the opposing player had the K9.

If Hibs had it, then that's different.

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Re: Poker

Postby Hibsclaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:57 pm

I had a set of 6’s and he had k9

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Re: Poker

Postby WestMidsClaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:58 pm

I'd never shove on a dry flop if I'd hit a set. You want someone with top pair crap kicker calling. You don't want them folding. You want their chips. If they hit runner runner to beat your hand there's bugger all you can do about it. You played the hand out how it should be played. You're just damned unlucky to lose.
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Re: Poker

Postby Imploding Turtle » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:00 pm

FactualFrank wrote:A rainbow board rules out the flushes, but two 9s came down - that straight away should raise a flag of full house. Quads... probably not, but still with high betting, it shouts out as full house.

You have to think about what he was thinking - he hadn't folded, so he's either majorly bluffing, or he has trips or full house. And he'd have higher trips than you, so I'd have been wary.

Unless you know their tells - you may have thought he was bluffing.

That's why I'd have gone all in - don't give him a chance to see the turn and river. You go all-in, he'll be thinking you have better than a KK hand, which is currently all he sees - the 9s haven't come yet.


He got it in with a set versus two pair on the turn. Villain was in the BB and called his pre-flop raise, no other callers. Hibs was in position. BB checks flop, Hibs c-bets, BB calls. So he's got a super wide range but he's hit a super dry flop. (He could have a PP depending on Hibs' open-raise position)

Turn goes check-shove-call, which is pretty standard since a lot of rivers are scary and the stack to pot ratio will be close to 1:1 by this point. Hand basically played itself.
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Re: Poker

Postby taio » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:03 pm

WestMidsClaret wrote:I'd never shove on a dry flop if I'd hit a set. You want someone with top pair crap kicker calling. You don't want them folding. You want their chips. If they hit runner runner to beat your hand there's bugger all you can do about it. You played the hand out how it should be played. You're just damned unlucky to lose.


Agree Hibs played it correctly and was just unlucky.
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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:06 pm

WestMidsClaret wrote:I'd never shove on a dry flop if I'd hit a set. You want someone with top pair crap kicker calling. You don't want them folding. You want their chips. If they hit runner runner to beat your hand there's bugger all you can do about it. You played the hand out how it should be played. You're just damned unlucky to lose.


I would consider for sure. You made the top 2 in a tourny - you're being paid. Go for it. All he'll do is fold with crap hands.
But we're all different in the world of Poker, I guess. Be pretty damn boring if we all made the same decisions.
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Re: Poker

Postby WestMidsClaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:07 pm

I see it a lot at casino's. Most people don't want to build pots. Their bet sizing is all wrong or they shove on the flop after hitting massively (depending on stack sizes and blinds etc). Too quick to take the hand down. They get all giddy and excited. There's a tell lol.
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Re: Poker

Postby Hibsclaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:08 pm

This was just post bubble of a series event. There was about 900 players left. Nowhere near top 2 (I wish). :o

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Re: Poker

Postby DustyBawls » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:09 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I would consider for sure. You made the top 2 in a tourny - you're being paid. Go for it. All he'll do is fold with crap hands.
But we're all different in the world of Poker, I guess. Be pretty damn boring if we all made the same decisions.


Did you play with Wilko in the Lancs event?

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Re: Poker

Postby Imploding Turtle » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:10 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I would consider for sure. You made the top 2 in a tourny - you're being paid. Go for it. All he'll do is fold with crap hands.
But we're all different in the world of Poker, I guess. Be pretty damn boring if we all made the same decisions.


Heads-up for the trophy is probably the least likely time you want to shove nutted hands on dry flops. What can they possibly call with?
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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:12 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:This was just post bubble of a series event. There was about 900 players left. Nowhere near top 2 (I wish). :o


I meant on the table. When it comes down to heads-up, an awful lot depends on luck - you play the hands, unless you see the tells. I stand by what I said, and win a lot. But everybody is different and play different ways.

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Re: Poker

Postby Devils_Advocate » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:13 pm

Are you sure you dont just play on those arcade style poker phone apps for pretend money FF?
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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:15 pm

DustyBawls wrote:Did you play with Wilko in the Lancs event?


If you mean the person I think you mean, then yeah - but moved over to Leeds.

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Re: Poker

Postby DustyBawls » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:17 pm

FactualFrank wrote:If you mean the person I think you mean, then yeah - but moved over to Leeds.


2007 I think?

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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:21 pm

Is it that long ago!? Jesus.

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Re: Poker

Postby Hibsclaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:22 pm

WestMidsClaret wrote:I see it a lot at casino's. Most people don't want to build pots. Their bet sizing is all wrong or they shove on the flop after hitting massively (depending on stack sizes and blinds etc). Too quick to take the hand down. They get all giddy and excited. There's a tell lol.


Poor bet sizing is one of the biggest tells there is.

Oh. And who knew a bad beat story could be this exciting... :o
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Re: Poker

Postby FactualFrank » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:31 pm

WestMidsClaret wrote:I see it a lot at casino's. Most people don't want to build pots. Their bet sizing is all wrong or they shove on the flop after hitting massively (depending on stack sizes and blinds etc). Too quick to take the hand down. They get all giddy and excited. There's a tell lol.


Casinos - absolutely. Just make sure you stand and watch a table for 5-10 minutes beforehand. You'll know where to sit and know what the table is like.

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Re: Poker

Postby DustyBawls » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:33 pm

Not learned a single thing reading this thread. You're all rubbish.
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Re: Poker

Postby Hibsclaret » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:35 pm

DustyBawls wrote:Not learned a single thing reading this thread. You're all rubbish.


I agree.

Anyone playing Goliath this year?


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