Boris

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:46 pm

At least he’s not negative and dreary. Just need to get behind him now. Of course there’s always people that won’t like him just because of where he went to school regardless of his capabilities.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:49 pm

Spijed wrote:I think it's now fairly obvious that if we leave without a deal it'll be the end of the UK as we know it. I suspect Boris does too.

I suppose if the Scots believe that leaving a political union is automatic financial suicide, they're bound to vote for it.

Pidgeon · Post by **Pidgeon** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:50 pm

Will upset the snowflakes so that’s a big plus.
Let’s hope he can deliver Brexit.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:51 pm

what a state we're in when a **** like this becomes our PM, 60 million people with this old etonian millionaire ponce at the helm.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:57 pm

Blackrod wrote:At least he’s not negative and dreary. Just need to get behind him now. Of course there’s always people that won’t like him just because of where he went to school regardless of his capabilities.

Capabilities, what like lying and being dishonest

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:58 pm

Blackrod wrote:At least he’s not negative and dreary. Just need to get behind him now. Of course there’s always people that won’t like him just because of where he went to school regardless of his capabilities.

Capabilities!? ‘Just need to get behind him’ he’s prime minister not a new signing ffs!!

Asbury Park · Post by **Asbury Park** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:01 pm

One big step closer to a Jeremy Corbyn premiership

UpTheClaretsFCBK · Post by **UpTheClaretsFCBK** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:05 pm

One step closer to the demise of the Conservative Party.

Absolutely loving it

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:13 pm

Feel quite positive. No bitching and moaning for me.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:14 pm

As long as he continues to say silly words and make silly noises when speaking everything will be fine.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:16 pm

I'm looking forward to continuing to drink clean water and eating Mars Bars

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:18 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:We dont have less to offer.
We are the 3rd largest economy in Europe.
We account for about a 5th of Europes exports.
They export more to Britsin, than they import.
We shove 39billion into their coffers.

They dont want to stop trading with us, and they dont want to lose that 39billion, because it leaves a hole they cannot fill. They cant take that 5th of trade and send it elsewhere, and germany and france cant replace the 39billion. We have lots of room for negotiations. If you cant understand that then.........

Apart from trading what are they offering us that we would lose.
A single army, we dont want it
Open borders, we dont want it
European Court of Justice, we dont want it
Tighter fiscal controls, we dont want it
Undemocratically elected leaders, we dont want it

Talking to people like you is like trying to explain basic concepts to a brick wall.
This level of wilful stupidity is why i gave up trying to help you people how you're wrong about some things. "They need us more than we need them" is still a core belief for you people, isn't it?

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:19 pm

Obviously no surprises today so the interesting thing for me will be to see how quickly his fanboys start to turn on him when he starts rowing back on all his promises. He knows as well as anyone what damage a no deal Brexit will do and he won't want that to be his legacy. The idea that it was his destiny to become PM was his only guiding principle - everything he's said about Brexit was just a vehicle for that ambition. Now he's there the bluster and bullshit crashes into the cold, hard reality that he's responsible for all the minute detail of what happens next and he'll be shown up for exactly what he is. He'll be squirming by September, delaying by October, calling a general election by November and (hopefully) out of a job by Christmas.

Asbury Park · Post by **Asbury Park** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:21 pm

Could Boris just drag his feet with parliament and take us out of the EU with no deal in October? Or is there some kind of mechanism to stop that catastrophe from happening?

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:24 pm

alwaysaclaret · Post by **alwaysaclaret** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:26 pm

Asbury Park wrote:Could Boris just drag his feet with parliament and take us out of the EU with no deal in October? Or is there some kind of mechanism to stop that catastrophe from happening?

There's a parliamentary process that will stop him but the problem is their all going on bloody holiday now so there's only 25 days left when they get back, exactly the same route practically that teresa went down, pathetic I say.!!!

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:28 pm

Asbury Park wrote:Could Boris just drag his feet with parliament and take us out of the EU with no deal in October? Or is there some kind of mechanism to stop that catastrophe from happening?

Catastrophe? Heaven help us if something bad happens, if leaving without a trade deal is catastrophe. I can see how you think it might be a bad thing, but why do you think it would be catastrophe? (Other than the BBC and Philip Hammond say so, but that's hardly a reason.)

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:32 pm

dsr wrote:Catastrophe? Heaven help us if something bad happens, if leaving without a trade deal is catastrophe. I can see how you think it might be a bad thing, but why do you think it would be catastrophe? (Other than the BBC and Philip Hammond say so, but that's hardly a reason.)

Because that's what the experts think. Some of us still value the opinions of experts. Not all of us can just pray, or "believe", or whatever faith-based bullshit it is you nutjobs want us to do to fix Brexit.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:33 pm

alwaysaclaret wrote:There's a parliamentary process that will stop him but the problem is their all going on bloody holiday now so there's only 25 days left when they get back, exactly the same route practically that teresa went down, pathetic I say.!!!

And by that stage, if they try and vote for something else (eg. revocation of Article 50), then Boris can treat it as a vote of confidence and resign as PM if he loses. Which means that Parliament would have to vote for a new PM, presumably a big coalition of Labour, SNP, Plaid Cymru, Liberal, Change UK, Independents, DUP Green, and as many rebel Tories as they can grap, and DUP if they can get them. The suggestion is that they should have another referendum where "Leave" is taken off the ballot paper, and we should be given the choice of "Remain" or "May's deal" (which isn't properly leave anyway). And then obviously we would have a general election because that coalition couldn't last, and that would of course be followed by another referendum with a fair question this time, and the whole thing would go on and on, which is what the Remainers want because they have never ceased to say how the uncertainty is damaging Britain's trade and therefore it's vital to keep on dithering till we get the "right" answer.

Or it might work out differently.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:34 pm

Blackrod wrote:At least he’s not negative and dreary. Just need to get behind him now. Of course there’s always people that won’t like him just because of where he went to school regardless of his capabilities.

I don't like him because he's a ****

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:35 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Because that's what the experts think. Some of us still value the opinions of experts. Not all of us can just pray, or "believe", or whatever faith-based bullshit it is you nutjobs want us to do to fix Brexit.

Of course you do. That's why you still believe George Osbourne's predictions even though they have been proved wrong - because he is an "expert".

But obviously, when your certainty in your own infallibility is such that you call people who disagree "nutjobs", you aren't going to be open minded, God forbid.

Brexit doesn't need fixing. It needs implementing.

Anyway, you didn't answer the question. Why does Ashbury Park think that it will be a catastrophe?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:38 pm

Asbury Park wrote:Could Boris just drag his feet with parliament and take us out of the EU with no deal in October?

Aye, prorogation, in the run-in to 31st October. He's said he won't prorogue Parliament, but that was before he became PM. He could always do a U-turn.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:41 pm

I reckon the odds on us leaving with a slightly rejigged version of May's deal is pretty high. It will be rejigged and rephrased and Johnson will present it with a great deal of bluster about what a good deal it is and the concessions he's obtained but it will be basically the same.

I don't think there's any chance of a no-deal Brexit. The commons don't want it and I don't think Johnson wants it.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:43 pm

dsr wrote:Of course they haven't said that. They wouldn't, would they. They're legally obliged to negotiate in good faith, so they wouldn't be stupid enough to say they aren't doing. Obviously the fact that they haven't said it is proof of nothing; but their actions tell the story.

The benefits of membership, as far as the UK is concerned. is free trade. The rest of the EU's activity - the parliament, the political union, the CAP and CFP, the mooted EU army, etc - that is not a benefit, and that's why they're willing to let us out of most of those. But free trade is the big benefit, and it is mutual. The total amount imported from and exported to the EU by the UK, is the same amount as the total exports and imports to the UK by the EU. Agreeing free trade would have a mutual benefit worth the same in absolute terms to both sides.

But, of course, the EU is bigger by a factor of about 4. So if this free trade doesn't happen, the proportionate loss to the UK is four times the loss to the EU. And, as Lancaster has frequently pointed out, the EU will use its power and size to do down its smaller neighbour. Mutual benefit doesn't come into it.

By far the most bellicose words in this issue have come from British Conservative MPs. Theresa May calling it "the brexit war room" and so on. From the EU side there hasn't been anything like that. And of course it's more than just trade. Fifty-five areas of co-operation, including policing, agriculture, science (many of which the UK plays a leading role); all of which end on Halloween. And as for our free trade deal with Europe, don't you think that will require us to pay the £39Billion agreed by May? And don't you think it'll put the EU courts (on which we'll no longer have membership) in charge of adjudicating on disputes? And what is most sad about all of this is we gave up free movement - something that still allowed us to control immigration into this country - and as a result we've lost the easiest free trade deal in history. Accept free movement and we could stay in the customs union and single market. The EU don't have to make any efforts to "punish" us because we have repeatedly shot ourselves in the feet.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:45 pm

martin_p wrote:Please tell me how I, as an individual, can get rid of Boris Johnson and the Tories. I live in a constituency with a Labour MP who I voted for at the last election.

This is indeed a fault within our Parliamentary system but the country can -collectively- get rid of governments. This has been done regularly when a government is unpopular and Boris will have to face the wider public vote probably sooner rather than later.

There is even some talk that he might be unseated as a MP entirely, though I doubt it.

All democracy systems are imperfect, however the EU system is not just 'imperfect'; it is fatally flawed. Why? Because it lacks the one thing that defines the word democracy. The British system, for all its imperfections does not. The British democratic system has demos.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:46 pm

Pidgeon wrote:Let’s hope he can deliver Brexit.

I think I'd trust Hermes more than Boris.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:52 pm

dsr wrote:Of course you do. That's why you still believe George Osbourne's predictions even though they have been proved wrong - because he is an "expert".

But obviously, when your certainty in your own infallibility is such that you call people who disagree "nutjobs", you aren't going to be open minded, God forbid.

Brexit doesn't need fixing. It needs implementing.

Anyway, you didn't answer the question. Why does Ashbury Park think that it will be a catastrophe?

And there it is again. The wilful lying to yourself and others about why i've called certain people a certain thing. You can't help yourself, can you? It's a compulsion. I call people who think we should just "believe" that Brexit will be a success "nutjobs", clearly because they think faith is all we need, and you, being the person you are, have to pretend that i'm calling them that because they disagree with me.

I'll make this crystal ******* clear to you. ANYONE who thinks that belief is a solution, to anything, is a nutjob. And a moron/idiot/imbecile etc. And it has nothing to do with whether they agree with me or not.

The overwhelming majority of experts think that Brexit will be a disaster. Any layman who refuses to listen to the vast majority of experts, on anything, is a ******* moron, and anyone who tries to dissuade people from listening to them based on nothing more than "oh, but an expert was wrong this one time" is a piece of **** that doesn't deserve the time of day. So take your anti-intellectual bullshit and go for a running jump, because the people who aren't wilfully stupid would like to actually talk about this massive problem we're facing.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:53 pm

Rowls wrote:This is indeed a fault within our Parliamentary system but the country can -collectively- get rid of governments. This has been done regularly when a government is unpopular and Boris will have to face the wider public vote probably sooner rather than later.

There is even some talk that he might be unseated as a MP entirely, though I doubt it.

All democracy systems are imperfect, however the EU system is not just 'imperfect'; it is fatally flawed. Why? Because it lacks the one thing that defines the word democracy. The British system, for all its imperfections does not. The British democratic system has demos.

Who can the electorate not remove within the EU?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:54 pm

Rowls wrote:This is indeed a fault within our Parliamentary system but the country can -collectively- get rid of governments. This has been done regularly when a government is unpopular and Boris will have to face the wider public vote probably sooner rather than later.

There is even some talk that he might be unseated as a MP entirely, though I doubt it.

All democracy systems are imperfect, however the EU system is not just 'imperfect'; it is fatally flawed. Why? Because it lacks the one thing that defines the word democracy. The British system, for all its imperfections does not. The British democratic system has demos.

What the **** are you wittering on about? It has 'demos'? What, demographics? Demonstrations? What the **** are you talking about?

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:55 pm

He is off again

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:55 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:He is off again

He's stalking again.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:56 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:He's stalking again.

Apologies I should have known you would have been acting like a bumbling idiot again on a thread about someone who has been in the news today.

Go and play out you weirdo

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:05 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:And there it is again. The wilful lying to yourself and others about why i've called certain people a certain thing. You can't help yourself, can you? It's a compulsion. I call people who think we should just "believe" that Brexit will be a success "nutjobs", clearly because they think faith is all we need, and you, being the person you are, have to pretend that i'm calling them that because they disagree with me.

I'll make this crystal ******* clear to you. ANYONE who thinks that belief is a solution, to anything, is a nutjob. And a moron/idiot/imbecile etc. And it has nothing to do with whether they agree with me or not.

The overwhelming majority of experts think that Brexit will be a disaster. Any layman who refuses to listen to the vast majority of experts, on anything, is a ******* moron, and anyone who tries to dissuade people from listening to them based on nothing more than "oh, but an expert was wrong this one time" is a piece of **** that doesn't deserve the time of day. So take your anti-intellectual bullshit and go for a running jump, because the people who aren't wilfully stupid would like to actually talk about this massive problem we're facing.

You have made it absolutely clear (i) that your obsession with being "right" causes you to lose all control and swear like a incontinent teenager when you are angry; and (ii) that you firmly believe that the experts are always right, whether it's on climate change and Brexit or whether it's just on things like thalidomide and beefburgers.

The experts have already been wrong about Brexit. They will be wrong again. Why is that? Because, contrary to your simple faith, the experts are not always right. (Especially when their position is based on a biased starting point.)

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:07 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:What the **** are you wittering on about? It has 'demos'? What, demographics? Demonstrations? What the **** are you talking about?

Rowls like this.

The stars are back in abundance and you haven't -presumably- even bothered to google what demos means.

I tip my hat to you sir, for your gumption at posting so brazenly whilst admitting you haven't even understood my point.

Well done.

10/10

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:09 pm

All hail our new head of state. What a state.
People for years have wished politics was more entertaining....

Fill your boots folks.

Be interesting to see the real Boris emerge now he’s got there.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:09 pm

Turtle's track record-

2010 UK general election- Turtle's choice lost

2014 Scots independence referendum - Turtle's choice lost

2015 - UK General election- Turtle's choice lost

2016 EU referendum- Turtle's choice lost

2016 USA presidential vote - Turtle's choice lost

2017 UK general election- Turtle's choice lost

2018 Brazilian Presidential election - Turtle's choice lost

2019 EU parliamentary election - Turtle's choice lost

2019 Boris Johnson becomes PM!

Never winning anything is just life's way of telling you that you suck........

HarryPottsDesk · Post by **HarryPottsDesk** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:11 pm

To say right-wing people are stupid seems so reductive that it must be wrong. But, yet again, the evidence for it on this forum is compelling.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:11 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Turtle's track record-

2010 UK general election- Turtle's choice lost

2014 Scots independence referendum - Turtle's choice lost

2015 - UK General election- Turtle's choice lost

2016 EU referendum- Turtle's choice lost

2016 USA presidential vote - Turtle's choice lost

2017 UK general election- Turtle's choice lost

2018 Brazilian Presidential election - Turtle's choice lost

2019 EU parliamentary election - Turtle's choice lost

2019 Boris Johnson becomes PM!

Never winning anything is just life's way of telling you that you suck........

And where have all those results got us? I'm not sure that set of results shows IT up tbh

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:14 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:And where have all those results got us? I'm not sure that set of results shows IT up tbh

Where have they got us?

You don't do democracy then?

Fair enough.

You considered North Korea?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:18 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:And where have all those results got us? I'm not sure that set of results shows IT up tbh

On a more serious note.

You ask, " where have all those results got us"

It's lead to a alarming increase in the use and frequency of stars in imploding Turtle's posts!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:24 pm

dsr wrote:You have made it absolutely clear (i) that your obsession with being "right" causes you to lose all control and swear like a incontinent teenager when you are angry; and (ii) that you firmly believe that the experts are always right, whether it's on climate change and Brexit or whether it's just on things like thalidomide and beefburgers.

The experts have already been wrong about Brexit. They will be wrong again. Why is that? Because, contrary to your simple faith, the experts are not always right. (Especially when their position is based on a biased starting point.)

(i)I swear when i have too little respect for either the person, or the post, i'm replying to. For someone like you you'll find I waste zero time using more respectful language. Maybe you should just "believe" that i'll gain respect for you so that you don't get upset by my asterisks in future.

(ii) I don't firmly believe that the experts are always right. That's another of your bullshit lies that you can't help yourself from spreading because you are a fundamentally dishonest person. This is why i have no respect for you. Not because you disagree with me so much. I don't care about that. The reason you get no respect from em is because you're always so full of ****. You just lie so ******* much. Everything you post is in bad faith. I say that i believe the overwhelming majority of experts and any layman who doesn't is a moron, and you pretend to yourself and others that that means i believe "the experts are always right".

Here you go, i'll set you a little task and we'll see if you're capable of pulling it off with any honesty whatsoever. You claim that the experts have already been proven wrong about Brexit. Obviously you're talking about being proven fundamentally wrong because surely not even you would consider a point of imprecision in a volatile scientific field like economics to, so why don't you explain to me just *how* the overwhelming majority of experts have been proven wrong already by Brexit. I wait with bated breath for your response.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:26 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:And where have all those results got us? I'm not sure that set of results shows IT up tbh

Some of them aren't even true. He keeps posting that same list, and no matter how many times i point out where he's wrong, he never changes it. Which tells you all you need to know about what kind of a "thinker" he is.

Sausage · Post by **Sausage** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:29 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:Except today we're getting an undemocratically elected leader.

Except that he was democratically elected by members of the Conservative Party. How else would you have liked the leader of the Conservative party to have been chosen? Or are you saying that whenever a prime minister is changed there should be a general election? Why not expand that to the leader of the opposition too? After all, that's a critical role in our parliamentary democracy. Perhaps we should have a general election when the chancellor of the exchequer is changed, or the speaker in the House of Commons.

It seems odd that few people can understand that a prime minister is no more elected to that position by the populace than the defence secretary, business secretary or home secretary is. In an election you vote for someone to represent your constituency. That's it. If you believe you should vote on the basis of who you want as your prime minister, you risk electing an idiot to represent you.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:30 pm

Rowls wrote:Rowls like this.

The stars are back in abundance and you haven't -presumably- even bothered to google what demos means.

I tip my hat to you sir, for your gumption at posting so brazenly whilst admitting you haven't even understood my point.

Well done.

10/10

Of course i googled it you daft ****. If i had found the answer I wouldn't be asking you. Are you going to tell the rest of us what it is?

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:36 pm

Sausage wrote: It seems odd that few people can understand that a prime minister is no more elected to that position by the populace than the defence secretary, business secretary or home secretary is. In an election you vote for someone to represent your constituency. That's it. If you believe you should vote on the basis of who you want as your prime minister, you risk electing an idiot to represent you.

Come on, you’re being a bit disingenuous there. Yes, technically what you say is true, but if people don’t vote based on who will become Prime Minister why is Johnson talking about defeating Corbyn (unless he intends to stand against him in Islington)? Why do people say they’ll never vote Labour while Corbyn is in charge? Why were the Tories worried that May had become an election liability?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:40 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Turtle's track record-

2010 UK general election- Turtle's choice lost (I voted for the winner)

2014 Scots independence referendum - Turtle's choice lost (My choice won)

2015 - UK General election- Turtle's choice lost (I voted for the winner)

2016 EU referendum- Turtle's choice lost

2016 USA presidential vote - Turtle's choice lost (She won by 3 million votes)

2017 UK general election- Turtle's choice lost (I voted for the winner)

2018 Brazilian Presidential election - Turtle's choice lost (I didn't express a choice)

2019 EU parliamentary election - Turtle's choice lost (My vote helped elect an MEP)

2019 Boris Johnson becomes PM! (I didn't have a choice)

Never winning anything is just life's way of telling you that you suck........

I'm going to bookmark this and just link it the next time you post this rubbish.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:43 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Where have they got us?

You don't do democracy then?

Fair enough.

You considered North Korea?

The results were democratically reached. No doubt about that. I just think in hindsight many might have voted otherwise given the benefit of good old 20/20 hindsight, but hey

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:51 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Of course i googled it you daft ****. If i had found the answer I wouldn't be asking you. Are you going to tell the rest of us what it is?

No

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:59 pm

Rowls: *says something stupid*

Others: wtf you talking about?

Rowls: How can you not know? Do you even Google?

Others: Please explain your opinion

Rowls wrote:No

-------------------

This is how it goes with people who only pretend to know what they're talking about. They can never explain why they think the things they think, because they know that any explanation will expose just how little thought has actually gone into forming that opinion.

Sausage · Post by **Sausage** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:02 pm

martin_p wrote:Come on, you’re being a bit disingenuous there. Yes, technically what you say is true, but if people don’t vote based on who will become Prime Minister why is Johnson talking about defeating Corbyn (unless he intends to stand against him in Islington)? Why do people say they’ll never vote Labour while Corbyn is in charge? Why were the Tories worried that May had become an election liability?

It can't be disingenuous if its technically true. I agree that it highlights one of the many flaws of our electoral system, namely that people mistakenly think a general election is to elect a prime minister rather than their own representative, and vote accordingly. For the record, I once voted Lib Dem despite thinking Nick Clegg was a bellend, purely because I like the candidate. I've also voted Labour for the same reason. And it's also the reason I won't vote Conservative this time around regardless of who the leader is, given my MP is Bob Neill and he's a pillock.