Boris

[Padiham Joe]

In light of Trump’s comments yesterday, how good was this prediction (from Bristol 2016)?

[Rick_Muller]

Or another way of looking at it , would be that, it actually took you longer than you thought it would, to find that video clip you'd been looking at which you genuinely believed was appropriate and funny.....

Oh the irony of this, you’re such a sad individual Ringo I genuinely hope you get some help with your mental affliction.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Glad somebody else pointed this out. Unreal lack of self-awareness.

You ok love ?

[aggi]

I think a Labour government or a Labour-led coalition government could keep the UK together with first a referendum on Proportional Representation with the promise of Labour backing for PR, and if PR loses then Scotland can have a second Indyref. The biggest problem Scotland has with Westminster is that they're repeatedly voting for left of centre politicians and not being represented in Westminster, and that's a result of the FPTP system. With a PR system then Scotland will be able to exert as much influence as its votes demand, every parliament, and i think that will satisfy enough Scottish voters to make any second Indyref a bigger win for the No campaign than last time.

But i don't see any way Scotland remains in the UK without a change in our electoral system, or a reversal of Brexit.

Obviously you're very pro-PR but is it that big an issue in Scotland?
Is their situation any different to the North-West or London? I imagine that the SNP aren't keen on it given how grossly over-represented they are due to FPTP.

[Colburn_Claret]

What you continually do is ignore the ill effects of a no deal exit for the average U.K. household, the sectors in which we already enjoy high levels of co-operation (55 areas), and our economy in general. Yes of course EU countries will be hit too, but what kind of pecuniary advantage do you think we’ll get out of leaving the threat of it on the table (and therefore having to go through the unnecessary expense of preparing for it)? What do you think we might ‘gain’ if the EU blinks first that will be worth the vast expense of preparing for a no deal, not to mention the ill will we will create by forcing EU countries to do the same? A tweak to the backstop? And what if they don’t blink, and we actually do crash out? Will you console yourself as you wait in a queue by the standpipe for your inadequate ration of water that we’ve finally taken back control, and kick your heels in the air at our independence? What will you say to people who were too poor to prepare and suffer? Or how would you feel about more criminals coming into the U.K. because we no longer share criminal intelligence as efficiently (or at all)?

If we take no deal off the table, we avoid all of this. At the end I don’t think it’ll matter, because our MPs are too conscientious to allow it to happen, but I think you’re being far too blasé about the consequences.

I'm not being blade, there are a set of circumstances, extreme circumstances, that would leave this country in the ****, but the chance of those circumstances occurring are minute.
You paint this bleak picture of people queueing for goods. Why?
The goods dont disappear. They are still being made. All it takes is fill in the right form, put it on a ferry and its here. The pessimism that remainers have spread seems to be contagious. There is nothing to fear but fear itself.
Businesses should have prepared themselves for a no deal Brexit by now, regardless. May's government should have done a lot more to help them in that preparation, but for the man in the street the changes will hardly be noticeable. You'll still clock on, clock off, get paid, live your life.
The last line is the money. We arent, or shouldnt be leaving for a pecuniary advantage we ate leaving to get our sovereignty back. In doing so, as in any other major changes, there will be winners and losers. There would be if we remain

[Siddo]

I'm not being blade, there are a set of circumstances, extreme circumstances, that would leave this country in the ****, but the chance of those circumstances occurring are minute.
You paint this bleak picture of people queueing for goods. Why?
The goods dont disappear. They are still being made. All it takes is fill in the right form, put it on a ferry and its here. The pessimism that remainers have spread seems to be contagious. There is nothing to fear but fear itself.
Businesses should have prepared themselves for a no deal Brexit by now, regardless. May's government should have done a lot more to help them in that preparation, but for the man in the street the changes will hardly be noticeable. You'll still clock on, clock off, get paid, live your life.
The last line is the money. We arent, or shouldnt be leaving for a pecuniary advantage we ate leaving to get our sovereignty back. In doing so, as in any other major changes, there will be winners and losers. There would be if we remain

I can see that you haven't studied the potential effects of a no deal Brexit. You are exactly the same as Johnson...just believe and we'll be ok, and if it doesn't seem ok just say it louder.

[Colburn_Claret]

Depending whose figures you use our exports to the EU are 45%-50% of our total exports. In comparison Germany's exports to the UK are ~ 7% of their exports and France is similar, even for Ireland it's only 12%. You're right that the EU exports a lot to us but if that ceased the pain would be spread across a lot of countries across a GDP something like 7 or 8 times larger.

I don't deny that it would be very damaging to them but it would be much more damaging to the UK and certainly wouldn't put us in a position of strength for negotiating a better deal than we have at the moment.

It isnt going to be spread over a lot of countries, because most of the countries in Europe are skint. It will fall almost totally on Germany and France, and their economies arent strong enough to fill it without causing major hurt on the home front. The yellow jerseys in France have already had enough. The German people think the new president of the EU is a waste of space, from the poor job she did in Germany. The anti EU feeling isnt only a British disease. Many people across Europe would love their own Brexit, for the same reasons that I want to leave. Carrying the burden of Britain leaving with no deal would only swell those numbers.

[martin_p]

It isnt going to be spread over a lot of countries, because most of the countries in Europe are skint. It will fall almost totally on Germany and France, and their economies arent strong enough to fill it without causing major hurt on the home front. The yellow jerseys in France have already had enough. The German people think the new president of the EU is a waste of space, from the poor job she did in Germany. The anti EU feeling isnt only a British disease. Many people across Europe would love their own Brexit, for the same reasons that I want to leave. Carrying the burden of Britain leaving with no deal would only swell those numbers.

Exports from the EU to the U.K. aren’t spread across a lot of countries?

[martin_p]

I can see that you haven't studied the potential effects of a no deal Brexit. You are exactly the same as Johnson...just believe and we'll be ok, and if it doesn't seem ok just say it louder.

Using positive mental attitude to solve the problems of Brexit was quite funny when people used to say it on here. Now it’s official government policy (and seemingly the only idea on Brexit) it’s stopped being funny!

[tim_noone]

Great to see the Absolute Bullsh!!t political news reports from The BBC....YAWN!!!

[aggi]

It isnt going to be spread over a lot of countries, because most of the countries in Europe are skint. It will fall almost totally on Germany and France, and their economies arent strong enough to fill it without causing major hurt on the home front. The yellow jerseys in France have already had enough. The German people think the new president of the EU is a waste of space, from the poor job she did in Germany. The anti EU feeling isnt only a British disease. Many people across Europe would love their own Brexit, for the same reasons that I want to leave. Carrying the burden of Britain leaving with no deal would only swell those numbers.

You keep saying that but the figures don't bear it out. There isn't any country who is hugely dependent on exports to the UK, as I've already said, for France and Germany the figure is at about 7%. The £39bn is about 0.2% of the EU's GDP. Even exports to the UK are only about 2% of the EU's GDP. They are big numbers but they aren't that big in the scheme of things.

I agree that it isn't all harmonious in the EU but there hasn't been a great deal of will shown at the polls in other countries for their own version of Brexit.

[RingoMcCartney]

Oh the irony of this, you’re such a sad individual Ringo I genuinely hope you get some help with your mental affliction.

Don't you fret about my well being . Stick to what you're apparently best at. Digging up weird video clips and posting them on a football message board.

[RingoMcCartney]

https://youtu.be/1_YUCqiBxQg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Swinson vows to reverse Brexit even if Britain votes for it a second time!

NEW Lib Dem boss Jo Swinson admitted on Tuesday that even if Britain voted for Brexit in a second referendum she would still campaign to reverse the decision!

Speaking to BBC News yesterday , newly elected Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson (or should that be Joanna Swanson?) revealed she would only accept the result of a second referendum if Remain won! If Leave won she would continue to work to block the result in Parliament. 

“Would you vote for [the result if Leave won] in Parliament?”

“No.”
So even if the People spoke twice, and The People voted to leave the EU TWICE, you would still oppose that!!!!?"

"Yes"

Totally takes apart the People’s Vote campaign’s pledge that a hypothetical Second Referendum would be the ‘final say’…

The pure brazen democracy denial of this woman!

Totally takes apart the People’s Vote campaign’s pledge that a hypothetical Second Referendum would be the ‘final say’…

NEW Lib-Dem leader Jo Swinson has ­accidentally blown apart the case for her second, “final say” Brexit referendum.

She wouldn’t honour that result either, if Leave won again. So it’s not a “final say”, until we vote Remain. Then it is.

And there, exposed for all to see, is the Remoaners’ warped view of democracy.

This is what former Fib antidemocrats party leader said -

On referendum night before the results had come in, Paddy Ashdown made a solemn promise to the British public:

“I will forgive no one who does not respect the sovereign voice of the British people once it has spoken, whether it is a majority of one per cent or 20 per cent.

When the British people have spoken you do what they command. Either you believe in democracy or you don’t

[Steve1956]

https://youtu.be/1_YUCqiBxQg


Swinson vows to reverse Brexit even if Britain votes for it a second time!

NEW Lib Dem boss Jo Swinson admitted on Tuesday that even if Britain voted for Brexit in a second referendum she would still campaign to reverse the decision!

Speaking to BBC News yesterday , newly elected Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson (or should that be Joanna Swanson?) revealed she would only accept the result of a second referendum if Remain won! If Leave won she would continue to work to block the result in Parliament. 

“Would you vote for [the result if Leave won] in Parliament?”

“No.”

"So even if the People voted to Leave twice, you wouldn't vote for it!?"

"No"

Totally takes apart the People’s Vote campaign’s pledge that a hypothetical Second Referendum would be the ‘final say’…

The pure brazen democracy denial of this woman!
She just shot straight to no1 in the prick list,bet she's there longer than Bryan Adams was
Totally takes apart the People’s Vote campaign’s pledge that a hypothetical Second Referendum would be the ‘final say’…

NEW Lib-Dem leader Jo Swinson has ­accidentally blown apart the case for her second, “final say” Brexit referendum.

She wouldn’t honour that result either, if Leave won again. So it’s not a “final say”, until we vote Remain. Then it is.

And there, exposed for all to see, is the Remoaners’ warped view of democracy.

This is what former Fib antidemocrats party leader said -

On referendum night before the results had come in, Paddy Ashdown made a solemn promise to the British public:

“I will forgive no one who does not respect the sovereign voice of the British people once it has spoken, whether it is a majority of one per cent or 20 per cent.

When the British people have spoken you do what they command. Either you believe in democracy or you don’t

She just shot straight to no1 in the prick list,she will be there longer than Bryan Adams was

[aggi]

https://youtu.be/1_YUCqiBxQg


Swinson vows to reverse Brexit even if Britain votes for it a second time!

NEW Lib Dem boss Jo Swinson admitted on Tuesday that even if Britain voted for Brexit in a second referendum she would still campaign to reverse the decision!

Speaking to BBC News yesterday , newly elected Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson (or should that be Joanna Swanson?) revealed she would only accept the result of a second referendum if Remain won! If Leave won she would continue to work to block the result in Parliament. 

“Would you vote for [the result if Leave won] in Parliament?”

“No.”

"So even if the People voted to Leave twice, you wouldn't vote for it!?"

"No"

Totally takes apart the People’s Vote campaign’s pledge that a hypothetical Second Referendum would be the ‘final say’…

The pure brazen democracy denial of this woman!

Totally takes apart the People’s Vote campaign’s pledge that a hypothetical Second Referendum would be the ‘final say’…

NEW Lib-Dem leader Jo Swinson has ­accidentally blown apart the case for her second, “final say” Brexit referendum.

She wouldn’t honour that result either, if Leave won again. So it’s not a “final say”, until we vote Remain. Then it is.

And there, exposed for all to see, is the Remoaners’ warped view of democracy.

This is what former Fib antidemocrats party leader said -

On referendum night before the results had come in, Paddy Ashdown made a solemn promise to the British public:

“I will forgive no one who does not respect the sovereign voice of the British people once it has spoken, whether it is a majority of one per cent or 20 per cent.

When the British people have spoken you do what they command. Either you believe in democracy or you don’t

You can't have it both ways. You can't complain about MPs not respecting their manifesto or representing their electorate if they don't vote leave and then complain about them respecting their manifesto and representing their electorate when they do what they say they're going to do.

[Rick_Muller]

Don't you fret about my well being . Stick to what you're apparently best at. Digging up weird video clips and posting them on a football message board.

didn't take much digging Ringo I just googled "RingoMcCartney dickwaving" and it was the first result, do I get a gold medal for being best at google...? have a nice day

[RingoMcCartney]

You can't have it both ways. You can't complain about MPs not respecting their manifesto or representing their electorate if they don't vote leave and then complain about them respecting their manifesto and representing their electorate when they do what they say they're going to do.

I expect that so called "Democrats" respect the democratically expressed wishes of the British people.

Democracy is precious and millions of British men and women have given their lives to protect and preserve it.

It depends on the willingness of those whose views are not the democratically expressed majority, to accept that democracy means they will occasionally be on the losing side. If they refuse to accept that simple fact, they cannot call themselves a Democrat.

Swinson is behaving like an over indulged only child who's parent never said "no".

It's a common trait with remoaners ......


On referendum night before the results had come in, Paddy Ashdown made a solemn promise to the British public:

“I will forgive no one who does not respect the sovereign voice of the British people once it has spoken, whether it is a majority of one per cent or 20 per cent.

When the British people have spoken you do what they command. Either you believe in democracy or you don’t"

[Steve1956]

image.jpeg (66.19 KiB) Viewed 1547 times

[RingoMcCartney]

didn't take much digging Ringo I just googled "RingoMcCartney dickwaving" and it was the first result, do I get a gold medal for being best at google...? have a nice day

The only gold medal you'd get would be for not growing up.

[tiger76]

Early opinions not favourable for Boris,a couple of snapshots.

YouGov polls show Johnson is 'deeply polarising figure' on Brexit
Professor Sir John Curtice

Polling expert

YouGov yesterday asked whether people had an favourable or unfavourable view of Mr Johnson - a question they also asked of Theresa May when she became prime minister three years ago.

When she became PM, 48% said they had a favourable view. For Boris Johnson, 31% said they had a favourable view compared to 58% who said unfavourable.

For some people he is definitely somebody they like - those people who support the Brexit Party and/or voted Leave.

But among those who voted Remain he is deeply unpopular - 86% have an unfavourable view of him.

He is a deeply polarising figure on the issue of Brexit and faces a substantial challenge if he wants to unify the country.

And if Boris is considering a cut and run election he might want to think again.

What would happen in the event of an early election?
Professor Sir John Curtice

Polling expert

If there was an early election, for the moment at least, the honest truth is we are looking at a deeply hung Parliament - one in which both Tory and Labour are on around 260-270 seats.

In any new Parliament, the Conservatives will be light on potential friends - only DUP or Brexit Party MPs.

Labour at least has the prospect, given where they stand on Brexit, of doing some deal with the SNP and/or the Lib Dems.

[Steve1956]

didn't take much digging Ringo I just googled "RingoMcCartney dickwaving" and it was the first result, do I get a gold medal for being best at google...? have a nice day

Rick! You will never beat that fella Bosscat,he's googling champion on here !

[Spijed]

I expect that so called "Democrats" respect the democratically expressed wishes of the British people.

Democracy is precious and millions of British men and women have given their lives to protect and preserve it.

It depends on the willingness of those whose views are not the democratically expressed majority, to accept that democracy means they will occasionally be on the losing side. If they refuse to accept that simple fact, they cannot call themselves a Democrat.

Swinson is behaving like an over indulged only child who's parent never said "no".

It's a common trait with remoaners ......

So you'd expect everyone in Scotland, including all the MP's to push through Brexit in both the UK & Scottish parliament, despite that vast majority of people in Scotland wanting to stay in the EU?

[RingoMcCartney]

So you'd expect everyone in Scotland, including all the MP's to push through Brexit in both the UK & Scottish parliament, despite that vast majority of people in Scotland wanting to stay in the EU?

The majority of Scots voted to remain .......

In the United Kingdom .

They voted in the 2016 referendum as part of the UK.

The UK voted to leave the EU.

On referendum night before the results had come in, Paddy Ashdown made a solemn promise to the British public:

“I will forgive no one who does not respect the sovereign voice of the British people once it has spoken, whether it is a majority of one per cent or 20 per cent.

When the British people have spoken you do what they command. Either you believe in democracy or you don’t"

[Spijed]

The majority of Scots voted to remain .......

In the United Kingdom .

They voted in the 2016 referendum as part of the UK.

The UK voted to leave the EU.

On referendum night before the results had come in, Paddy Ashdown made a solemn promise to the British public:

“I will forgive no one who does not respect the sovereign voice of the British people once it has spoken, whether it is a majority of one per cent or 20 per cent.

When the British people have spoken you do what they command. Either you believe in democracy or you don’t"

Aye, and you know full well that when Scotland voted to stay in the UK it was done on the premise that they would NEVER leave the EU!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Aye, and you know full well that when Scotland voted to stay in the UK it was done on the premise that they would NEVER leave the EU!

Is that the sole reason they stayed then?

If that's the case, why was the SNP manifesto still talking about another referendum if the mood was right even without brexit?

[Imploding Turtle]

Obviously you're very pro-PR but is it that big an issue in Scotland?
Is their situation any different to the North-West or London? I imagine that the SNP aren't keen on it given how grossly over-represented they are due to FPTP.

The SNP are pro-PR.

[deanothedino]

One big step closer to a Jeremy Corbyn premiership

As long as Corbyn is the leader of the Labour party, the leader of the Conservatives could be an actual rat and they'd still win.

[deanothedino]

It isnt going to be spread over a lot of countries, because most of the countries in Europe are skint. It will fall almost totally on Germany and France, and their economies arent strong enough to fill it without causing major hurt on the home front. The yellow jerseys in France have already had enough. The German people think the new president of the EU is a waste of space, from the poor job she did in Germany. The anti EU feeling isnt only a British disease. Many people across Europe would love their own Brexit, for the same reasons that I want to leave. Carrying the burden of Britain leaving with no deal would only swell those numbers.

Germany's economy is $1tr bigger than ours. Even if they were responsible for all of our EU trade it would barely scratch them.

[nil_desperandum]

As long as Corbyn is the leader of the Labour party, the leader of the Conservatives could be an actual rat and they'd still win.

I think it would be more correct to say that Labour won't win.
It doesn't matter who leads the Tories at present, all the evidence suggests that they would be fairly unlikely to get an overall majority - even with JC leading a rudderless, anti-semitic Labour Party.

[AndrewJB]

I'm not being blade, there are a set of circumstances, extreme circumstances, that would leave this country in the ****, but the chance of those circumstances occurring are minute.
You paint this bleak picture of people queueing for goods. Why?
The goods dont disappear. They are still being made. All it takes is fill in the right form, put it on a ferry and its here. The pessimism that remainers have spread seems to be contagious. There is nothing to fear but fear itself.
Businesses should have prepared themselves for a no deal Brexit by now, regardless. May's government should have done a lot more to help them in that preparation, but for the man in the street the changes will hardly be noticeable. You'll still clock on, clock off, get paid, live your life.
The last line is the money. We arent, or shouldnt be leaving for a pecuniary advantage we ate leaving to get our sovereignty back. In doing so, as in any other major changes, there will be winners and losers. There would be if we remain

If all you want is for us to take back the sovereignty we've pooled with other countries, then we can do that without having to (for example) leave the fifty five areas of co-operation. We can set out the positive things about our interaction with the EU (like the fifty-five areas, and free trade), and negotiate from there. We don't need to have the threat of a no deal. If you think we do, then tell us what advantage we might gain in negotiations that is worth the cost of having to prepare for it?

[Spijed]

I think it would be more correct to say that Labour won't win.
It doesn't matter who leads the Tories at present, all the evidence suggests that they would be fairly unlikely to get an overall majority - even with JC leading a rudderless, anti-semitic Labour Party.

And therein lies the conundrum for Boris as to whether he risks calling an early general election.

If he takes the risk and it ends up in the same result as it did for TM his dream of being PM is all but over after a few short weeks!

[Damo]

Crazy Carole Catlady is having another meltdown on twitter following today's appointments.
Personally I think Boris is putting a very good team together

[Murger]

Crazy Carole Catlady is having another meltdown on twitter following today's appointments.
Personally I think Boris is putting a very good team together

I think Boris is a bit of a dick, but anything that gets the cat lady and others frothing at the mouth can only be a good thing.

[Imploding Turtle]

I think Boris is a bit of a dick, but anything that gets the cat lady and others frothing at the mouth can only be a good thing.

This is the single stupidest reason to support someone. No wonder democracy is under threat when idiots value making people miserable more than actually achieving something good for themselves and others.

[aggi]

The SNP are pro-PR.

So they are. I'd become so used to political parties putting the party interests before anything else that I assumed they were all at it.

[TheFamilyCat]

And therein lies the conundrum for Boris as to whether he risks calling an early general election.

If he takes the risk and it ends up in the same result as it did for TM his dream of being PM is all but over after a few short weeks!

Isn’t that better for him in the long run than making an absolute arse of it?

[agreenwood]

I think Boris is a bit of a dick, but anything that gets the cat lady and others frothing at the mouth can only be a good thing.

Welcome to 2019. The year when people are willing to accept “a bit of a dick” as PM if it winds up journalists they don’t like.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Welcome to 2019. The year when people are willing to accept “a bit of a dick” as PM if it winds up journalists they don’t like.

Such a bizarre outlook to have on life!

[Colburn_Claret]

If all you want is for us to take back the sovereignty we've pooled with other countries, then we can do that without having to (for example) leave the fifty five areas of co-operation. We can set out the positive things about our interaction with the EU (like the fifty-five areas, and free trade), and negotiate from there. We don't need to have the threat of a no deal. If you think we do, then tell us what advantage we might gain in negotiations that is worth the cost of having to prepare for it?

Because although many of the 55 areas of co operation are for the good, there are still red lines that have to be set in stone. Open borders, our opt out options and not being under the rule of the ECJ, for a few. The problem with everything the EU does, for good, it comes with add ons that are bad. The add ons always lead to closer ties, and more of our authority, power, sovereignty call it what you like, going to Brussels. The closer you get to Brussels the harder it gets to break away, as the last 3 years have shown. This isnt an accident, it's always been their intention from day one to ensnare countries in so much red tape that to leave would seem too much of an issue. Its always been their intention to create this United States of Europe. Even though remainers still try to deny it.

[AndrewJB]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ive-leader" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The leave campaign had no more plans for leaving the European Union than a dog chasing a car has to drive it." - I like Gary Younge's writing. Whereas we could say that the people who got us into this mess now have to get us out of it, I still think it'll come down to parliament preventing a no deal exit that will achieve this.

[Imploding Turtle]

So they are. I'd become so used to political parties putting the party interests before anything else that I assumed they were all at it.

They're a good party. They actually want to do good for the people and not just corporations. People like to attack them with "Sturgeon looks like Jimmy Krankie" or "they're nationalists and all nationalists are bad", but it'a tough to argue against their policies without making yourself look silly which is why, I think, most of their critics don't.
If I lived in Scotland i'd be a member of their party.

[Murger]

Welcome to 2019. The year when people are willing to accept “a bit of a dick” as PM if it winds up journalists they don’t like.

We have to accept it, there's not much we can do about it til there's a General Election.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Isn’t that better for him in the long run than making an absolute arse of it?

There is no long run of Boris Johnson, he won't even make it to the end of the year. Yes, he will make an absolute arse of it, "it" being everything he does or tries to do.

That's what generally happens when you put a ridiculous, incompentent, lying idiot in charge.

This guy doesn't crash the car in slow motion, he crashes it full tilt into a bus-stop full of pensioners and schoolchildren while waving a kipper out the window.

Praise the lord we live in interesting times.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

We have to accept it, there's not much we can do about it til there's a General Election.

We can enjoy the show. Europe's favourite comedy, "Brexit" is about to really hit the heights of Pythonesque ridiculousness.

[AndrewJB]

Because although many of the 55 areas of co operation are for the good, there are still red lines that have to be set in stone. Open borders, our opt out options and not being under the rule of the ECJ, for a few. The problem with everything the EU does, for good, it comes with add ons that are bad. The add ons always lead to closer ties, and more of our authority, power, sovereignty call it what you like, going to Brussels. The closer you get to Brussels the harder it gets to break away, as the last 3 years have shown. This isnt an accident, it's always been their intention from day one to ensnare countries in so much red tape that to leave would seem too much of an issue. Its always been their intention to create this United States of Europe. Even though remainers still try to deny it.

Firstly the "issue" of ever closer union was something Cameron discussed with the EU in 2016, and something they recognised his government didn't want: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-35622105" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; So right there you've got what you want.

The way you characterise it though is very misleading. I think it's an entirely laudable thing to want an "ever closer union of the peoples of Europe" - when you also consider that the EU isn't out to make this a "one language, one religion, one culture" creation. And to say it's doing this with trickery - "ensnaring" countries - is rubbish. Also to suggest it's a one size fits all thing, that we have to accept every element of is not true. It's obviously a flexible thing, as evidenced by the fact we aren't part of Schengen, and have not taken on the Euro. Rather than simplistically saying it's all negative, there are probably ways in which closer integration might suit us, and ways it might not.

This still doesn't answer my question of how does keeping a no deal scenario (and all the expense, time, and effort that comes with preparing for it) give us an advantage in negotiations? As some people have already pointed out, we're likely to come off worse, but even if we didn't, and we instead caused more problems within the EU, how would that incline them to give us a more preferable trade deal? And on top of it all, we'd then be out of all of those areas of co-operation that you acknowledge we benefit from. Threatening and possibly ending up with no deal is just dumb path to go down.

[RingoMcCartney]

Aye, and you know full well that when Scotland voted to stay in the UK it was done on the premise that they would NEVER leave the EU!

Let Scotland leave the UK if it choses to do it democratically.

I haven't got a problem with that.

I laughed when Sturgeon whined about the Brexit Party turning up in Brussels taking a wage, yet campaigning to leave the very body that was paying them.

She didn't stop to think that's exactly what Ian Blackford and the SNP do and have been doing for years, when they're in Westminster!

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

[AndrewJB]

Let Scotland leave the UK if it choses to do it democratically.

I haven't got a problem with that.

I laughed when Sturgeon whined about the Brexit Party turning up in Brussels taking a wage, yet campaigning to leave the very body that was paying them.

She didn't stop to think that's exactly what Ian Blackford and the SNP do and have been doing for years, when they're in Westminster!

The SNP contribute a lot more positively in parliament than UKIP or the Brexit Party have in the EU parliament.

[RingoMcCartney]

The SNP contribute a lot more positively in parliament than UKIP or the Brexit Party have in the EU parliament.

Hardly objective are you Andrew?

My point stands.

The SNP are just the Westminster equivalent to the Brexit Party in Brussels , oh and Strasbourg. ( Costs millions , for a few days a year , so best give it a mention eh!?)

Picking up a wage from the body they don't want to be part of. Yet Sturgeon couldn't , or wouldn't, see it.

[Colburn_Claret]

Firstly the "issue" of ever closer union was something Cameron discussed with the EU in 2016, and something they recognised his government didn't want: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-35622105" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; So right there you've got what you want.

The way you characterise it though is very misleading. I think it's an entirely laudable thing to want an "ever closer union of the peoples of Europe" - when you also consider that the EU isn't out to make this a "one language, one religion, one culture" creation. And to say it's doing this with trickery - "ensnaring" countries - is rubbish. Also to suggest it's a one size fits all thing, that we have to accept every element of is not true. It's obviously a flexible thing, as evidenced by the fact we aren't part of Schengen, and have not taken on the Euro. Rather than simplistically saying it's all negative, there are probably ways in which closer integration might suit us, and ways it might not.

This still doesn't answer my question of how does keeping a no deal scenario (and all the expense, time, and effort that comes with preparing for it) give us an advantage in negotiations? As some people have already pointed out, we're likely to come off worse, but even if we didn't, and we instead caused more problems within the EU, how would that incline them to give us a more preferable trade deal? And on top of it all, we'd then be out of all of those areas of co-operation that you acknowledge we benefit from. Threatening and possibly ending up with no deal is just dumb path to go down.

If we are to leave we have no other option.
May's deal was a bad one, and was rejected. Remainers, and Corbyn have painted us into a corner where the only options are remain, or leave on a no deal. While they also reject a no deal. They believe the electorate are blind to this obvious attempt at reversing the largest single question vote this country's ever had.
A remainer was asked on the news this morning, If she got her way for a second referendum, and the country still voted leave, would she accept it. Her answer was No.
What part of democracy do you and people like her not get.
I can understand the difference of opinion, that's politics, I dont get the crying and scheming in an attempt to undermine a vote you lost.
I've said many times I dont want a no deal, but at the same time I'm resigned to the fact that due to circumstances outside Brexiteers control, we are left with no option but to take that path. I still believe a deal will be made, but it's going to be the rocky road instead of the smooth one.