Boris

[martin_p]

If we are to leave we have no other option.
May's deal was a bad one, and was rejected. Remainers, and Corbyn have painted us into a corner where the only options are remain, or leave on a no deal. While they also reject a no deal. They believe the electorate are blind to this obvious attempt at reversing the largest single question vote this country's ever had.
A remainer was asked on the news this morning, If she got her way for a second referendum, and the country still voted leave, would she accept it. Her answer was No.
What part of democracy do you and people like her not get.
I can understand the difference of opinion, that's politics, I dont get the crying and scheming in an attempt to undermine a vote you lost.
I've said many times I dont want a no deal, but at the same time I'm resigned to the fact that due to circumstances outside Brexiteers control, we are left with no option but to take that path. I still believe a deal will be made, but it's going to be the rocky road instead of the smooth one.

It’s as if the ERG don’t exist!

[RingoMcCartney]

If we are to leave we have no other option.
May's deal was a bad one, and was rejected. Remainers, and Corbyn have painted us into a corner where the only options are remain, or leave on a no deal. While they also reject a no deal. They believe the electorate are blind to this obvious attempt at reversing the largest single question vote this country's ever had.
A remainer was asked on the news this morning, If she got her way for a second referendum, and the country still voted leave, would she accept it. Her answer was No.
What part of democracy do you and people like her not get.
I can understand the difference of opinion, that's politics, I dont get the crying and scheming in an attempt to undermine a vote you lost.
I've said many times I dont want a no deal, but at the same time I'm resigned to the fact that due to circumstances outside Brexiteers control, we are left with no option but to take that path. I still believe a deal will be made, but it's going to be the rocky road instead of the smooth one.

https://youtu.be/1_YUCqiBxQg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lib Dem boss Jo Swinson admitted on Tuesday that even if Britain voted for Brexit in a second referendum she would still campaign to reverse the decision!

Speaking to BBC News yesterday , newly elected Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson (or should that be Joanna Swanson?) revealed she would only accept the result of a second referendum if Remain won! If Leave won she would continue to work to block the result in Parliament. 

“Would you vote for [the result if Leave won] in Parliament?”

“No.”

So even if the People spoke twice, and The People voted to leave the EU TWICE, you would still oppose that!!!!?"

"Yes"

The pure brazen democracy denial of this woman!

Totally takes apart the People’s Vote campaign’s pledge that a hypothetical Second Referendum would be the ‘final say’…

Lib-Dem leader Jo Swinson has ­accidentally blown apart the case for her second, “final say” Brexit referendum.

She wouldn’t honour that result either, if Leave won again. So it’s not a “final say”, until we vote Remain. Then it is.

And there, exposed for all to see, is the Remoaners’ warped view of democracy.

This is what former Fib antidemocrats party leader said -

On referendum night before the results had come in, Paddy Ashdown made a solemn promise to the British public:

“I will forgive no one who does not respect the sovereign voice of the British people once it has spoken, whether it is a majority of one per cent or 20 per cent.

When the British people have spoken you do what they command. Either you believe in democracy or you don’t"

[dsr]

It’s as if the ERG don’t exist!

The rejection of May's deal isn't down to the ERG, or at least not solely. Labour, Liberal, SNP, Plaid Cymru, DUP, Greens hated the deal too and all voted it down.

[martin_p]

The rejection of May's deal isn't down to the ERG, or at least not solely. Labour, Liberal, SNP, Plaid Cymru, DUP, Greens hated the deal too and all voted it down.

Tell that to Colburn_Claret! He seems to think it was entirely remainers to blame.

[AndrewJB]

If we are to leave we have no other option.
May's deal was a bad one, and was rejected. Remainers, and Corbyn have painted us into a corner where the only options are remain, or leave on a no deal. While they also reject a no deal. They believe the electorate are blind to this obvious attempt at reversing the largest single question vote this country's ever had.
A remainer was asked on the news this morning, If she got her way for a second referendum, and the country still voted leave, would she accept it. Her answer was No.
What part of democracy do you and people like her not get.
I can understand the difference of opinion, that's politics, I dont get the crying and scheming in an attempt to undermine a vote you lost.
I've said many times I dont want a no deal, but at the same time I'm resigned to the fact that due to circumstances outside Brexiteers control, we are left with no option but to take that path. I still believe a deal will be made, but it's going to be the rocky road instead of the smooth one.

"...circumstances outside brexiteer's control..." - unbelievable that you blame the current failure of brexit on everyone but brexiters. And equally astounding that you've resigned yourself to a brexit that could be a disaster for this country. But then a few people on your side have managed to interpret a yes or no vote as being a mandate for hard brexit - which it is most certainly not. Faced with this I'm not surprised that some Remain people are hoping the whole thing gets revoked, as in comparison with the "chopping your own balls off" brexit, I'd say it's a perfectly reasonable position to take.

[AndrewJB]

Hardly objective are you Andrew?

My point stands.

The SNP are just the Westminster equivalent to the Brexit Party in Brussels , oh and Strasbourg. ( Costs millions , for a few days a year , so best give it a mention eh!?)

Picking up a wage from the body they don't want to be part of. Yet Sturgeon couldn't , or wouldn't, see it.

My point stands too. One party has an unelected leader, with no manifesto, and spends its time sitting with fascist, Islamophobic, and anti-Semitic parties in the parliament, whereas the other is a real political party.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

My point stands too. One party has an unelected leader, with no manifesto, and spends its time sitting with fascist, Islamophobic, and anti-Semitic parties in the parliament, whereas the other is a real political party.

In regards to the unelected leader part, Sturgeon had the same complaint about May, along with other people, and then we ended up with a GE...
If people are going to have the same issue with Boris being unelected and not wanting to listen to what he says etc, I won't be overly surprised if we have yet another GE in the near future.

[Rick_Muller]

But one person didn't get it wrong

Various people said-

There'd be a stock market crash

A housing market crash

An immediate and protracted recession following any vote to Leave.

Seimans, the German engineering group would leave.

That 18 months after any vote to Leave, upto 850,000 would join the dole queue.

A emergency budget on the morning following any vote to Leave.

A "BREXODUS" of the brightest and most talented workers.

"Confidence in the UK economy would evaporate over night" Alistair Darling

The hundreds of thousands of financial jobs in the City of London would up sticks and move to Europe.

Nissan would Leave

This was all held up as evidence from experts, that a leave vote would be disastrous for the UK.

Then when none of it transpired , the excuse was that they were simply "predictions" or "forecasts"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 1563960729" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How are you feeling today Ringo...?

[rob63]

Let's have a look at some possible outcomes from the Johnson Premiership: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng ... -scenarios" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks Andrew, very interesting to those of us who don't regard politics as a black & white issue.

[AndrewJB]

In regards to the unelected leader part, Sturgeon had the same complaint about May, along with other people, and then we ended up with a GE...
If people are going to have the same issue with Boris being unelected and not wanting to listen to what he says etc, I won't be overly surprised if we have yet another GE in the near future.

I was referring to Farage as unelected leader of the Brexit Party. But I agree that we'll probably have a general election quite soon.

[Imploding Turtle]

Already being mocked.

“I look forward to alleviating Mr Johnson’s concerns regarding the imminent accession of Turkey to the EU, following the claims of the leave campaign, whilst explaining the EU has no rules on the packaging of kippers in the UK.” - Guy Verhofstadt.

[JohnMcGreal]

"...circumstances outside brexiteer's control..." - unbelievable that you blame the current failure of brexit on everyone but brexiters. And equally astounding that you've resigned yourself to a brexit that could be a disaster for this country.

It's absolutely pathetic.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Already being mocked.

“I look forward to alleviating Mr Johnson’s concerns regarding the imminent accession of Turkey to the EU, following the claims of the leave campaign, whilst explaining the EU has no rules on the packaging of kippers in the UK.” - Guy Verhofstadt.

Oh no, not guy verhofstadt!

It's over boris, time to resign

[Imploding Turtle]

My point stands too. One party has an unelected leader, with no manifesto, and spends its time sitting with fascist, Islamophobic, and anti-Semitic parties in the parliament, whereas the other is a real political party.

They're also deliberately concealing their funding and facilitating the ability of foreign and illegal funding to find their way into their coffers while claiming deniability. Because Farage is a Russian asset and his party a vessel for Russian influence.

[aggi]

I would say this is bad news for the Brexit Party. I reckon Boris will be able to take a lot of Farage's voters if we have a GE relatively soon. I wasn't expecting them to get more than a handful of seats but they may well have got a hefty number of votes, as it is I suspect they won't get either.

[dsr]

I would say this is bad news for the Brexit Party. I reckon Boris will be able to take a lot of Farage's voters if we have a GE relatively soon. I wasn't expecting them to get more than a handful of seats but they may well have got a hefty number of votes, as it is I suspect they won't get either.

If Boris delivers Brexit, then the Brexit party's job is done. I dare say Boris will be happy enough to make Farage US ambassador (like Churchill did with Halifax in 1940) because that will get him out of the way, and the Brexit party, like UKIP before it, is a one-man band and will disappear as long as its supporters are reasonably satisfied.

[rob63]

This will be the point I stop referring to him as 'Boris'. He's become far more dangerous now.

Boris is only his public persona, started by his school 'chums', his family call him Alex

[Imploding Turtle]

Hilarious.

Obama corrects some lies being made about him and America by the Leave campaign and Leavers scream blue murder over his interference in our democracy.
But Boris can appoint Farage to be the US ambassador because Trump tells him to and that'll be all fine and dandy.

[RingoMcCartney]

My point stands too. One party has an unelected leader, with no manifesto, and spends its time sitting with fascist, Islamophobic, and anti-Semitic parties in the parliament, whereas the other is a real political party.

I wasn't aware that the Brexit Party was in bed with the Tories and Corbyns Labour Party.

[aggi]

If Boris delivers Brexit, then the Brexit party's job is done. I dare say Boris will be happy enough to make Farage US ambassador (like Churchill did with Halifax in 1940) because that will get him out of the way, and the Brexit party, like UKIP before it, is a one-man band and will disappear as long as its supporters are reasonably satisfied.

I was more thinking before Brexit is delivered.

[Imploding Turtle]

I wasn't aware that the Brexit Party was in bed with the Tories and Corbyns Labour Party.

You mean "Johnson's Tory Party".

[Rick_Muller]

Experts&Ringo.jpg (64.82 KiB) Viewed 1685 times

[AndrewJB]

It's absolutely pathetic.

I have to wonder how they came up with that narrative.

Theresa May set out to negotiate with Brussels having some very strong red lines, which were put in place to appease the hard brexit crew within her party. Those red lines meant that we couldn't remain in the single market or customs union (because we weren't accepting free movement any more - despite the fact that within free movement we still have control over our borders in a meaningful way). During the negotiations, which were led by brexit supporting ministers, it became apparent that the red lines, meant that nothing more than a withdrawal agreement could be finished, and so a free trade agreement was put off for the future. The Northern Ireland border issue was not something invented by remain supporters, but there from the beginning, and something I don't recall advocates of leave ever addressing during the referendum campaign.

So apart from Philip Hammond as Chancellor, I don't think there were any remainer MPs in any positions of power sufficient to screw things up. Yes they all voted against May's bad deal (which was bad because her red lines prevented her from getting a good deal), but so did many of the brexiters.

If I've got this wrong or missed something out, please Leavers, let me know. But all in all it doesn't look as though remain MPs have had much to do with the chaos.

[RingoMcCartney]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 1563960729

How are you feeling today Ringo...?

Same as yesterday.

If you're trying to say that Nissan will leave the UK because we voted to Leave, Which was what lying remoaners said prior to the referendum, which did not happen. Then you clearly haven't read link you've provided!!!!

"New fears have been raised for UK car plant workers after reports that Nissan will cut 10,000 jobs globally – more than double the number previously announced – as it seeks to tackle tumbling profits."


A string of car makers have already shed staff and moved production overseas in response to Brexit uncertainty, plummeting sales of diesel-engine vehicles and a slowdown in the key market of China among other problems. "

Your desperate attempt to pin this on the 2016 referendum result is pathetic.

Now then which of these happened?

There'd be a stock market crash

A housing market crash

An immediate and protracted recession following any vote to Leave. 

Seimans, the German engineering group would leave.

That 18 months after any vote to Leave, upto 850,000 would join the dole queue. 

A emergency budget on the morning following any vote to Leave. 

A "BREXODUS" of the brightest and most talented workers.

"Confidence in the UK economy would evaporate over night" Alistair Darling

The hundreds of thousands of financial jobs in the City of London would up sticks and move to Europe. 

Nissan would Leave.

Maybe , rather than linking articles that absolutely don't disprove my point, you should stick to posting slightly disturbing and inappropriate video clips on a football message board.

[RingoMcCartney]

Experts&Ringo.jpg

And what irks you is that in a democracy, each one of us has the same and equal value vote. One.

And it's clearly a democracy that produces results that you will never accept.

I think you're a bit angry Rick aren't you!

[dsr]

I have to wonder how they came up with that narrative.

Theresa May set out to negotiate with Brussels having some very strong red lines, which were put in place to appease the hard brexit crew within her party. Those red lines meant that we couldn't remain in the single market or customs union (because we weren't accepting free movement any more - despite the fact that within free movement we still have control over our borders in a meaningful way). During the negotiations, which were led by brexit supporting ministers, it became apparent that the red lines, meant that nothing more than a withdrawal agreement could be finished, and so a free trade agreement was put off for the future. The Northern Ireland border issue was not something invented by remain supporters, but there from the beginning, and something I don't recall advocates of leave ever addressing during the referendum campaign.

So apart from some Philip Hammond as Chancellor, I don't think there were any remainer MPs in any positions of power sufficient to screw things up. Yes they all voted against May's bad deal (which was bad because her red lines prevented her from getting a good deal), but so did many of the brexiters.

If I've got this wrong or missed something out, please Leavers, let me know. But all in all it doesn't look as though remain MPs have had much to do with the chaos.

Re. the Northern Ireland situation, I don't recall the Remain side going on about it either. Is the implication that everybody knew it would be a problem but both sides decided to keep it quiet, or that only Leave realised it would be a problem and Remain didn't, or that no-one realised it would be a problem?

A hard border is absurd. (Every driven near Clones? The road crosses the border 4 times in 10 miles. We won't have four sets of double border gates on that road, I promise you.) Therefore the powers that be should have decided from the start that there wouldn't be a hard border, and got on with finding a solution. Which can be done, whatever the naysayers may claim.

[Imploding Turtle]

And what irks you is that in a democracy, each one of us has the same and equal value vote. One.

The total number of votes, and the value of that vote, are almost always not the same.

As proven by previous elections, if you vote for the Tories or for Labour then your vote will have more value than a vote for the Lib Dems.

[AndrewJB]

I wasn't aware that the Brexit Party was in bed with the Tories and Corbyns Labour Party.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... parliament" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Like flies to sh1t.

[RingoMcCartney]

It certainly looks like Johnson becoming PM really has upset the usual gaggle of UTC message board remoaners!

We're in the midst of a bit of a Brexiteer Boris induced communal tantrum!

[RingoMcCartney]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... parliament

Like flies to sh1t.

Anti semitism and Islamophobia

Labour and conservative .

[aggi]

I have to wonder how they came up with that narrative.

Theresa May set out to negotiate with Brussels having some very strong red lines, which were put in place to appease the hard brexit crew within her party. Those red lines meant that we couldn't remain in the single market or customs union (because we weren't accepting free movement any more - despite the fact that within free movement we still have control over our borders in a meaningful way). During the negotiations, which were led by brexit supporting ministers, it became apparent that the red lines, meant that nothing more than a withdrawal agreement could be finished, and so a free trade agreement was put off for the future. The Northern Ireland border issue was not something invented by remain supporters, but there from the beginning, and something I don't recall advocates of leave ever addressing during the referendum campaign.

So apart from Philip Hammond as Chancellor, I don't think there were any remainer MPs in any positions of power sufficient to screw things up. Yes they all voted against May's bad deal (which was bad because her red lines prevented her from getting a good deal), but so did many of the brexiters.

If I've got this wrong or missed something out, please Leavers, let me know. But all in all it doesn't look as though remain MPs have had much to do with the chaos.

It's because Brexit has somehow become a partisan sport, look at Ringo with all of his "We won, you lost" posts.

Trying to blame it all on the other side is like blaming a defeat on the ref or the other side cheating, you just don't want to accept that your side has done anything wrong.

Although I think on top of that a lot of people don't realise the implications of May's red lines and what it meant in terms of the kind of Brexit that would be delivered. If you believed the initial promises then chances are you won't be aware of the implications of those red lines because you already believe that a great deal where we hold all the cards is possible.

[RingoMcCartney]

It's because Brexit has somehow become a partisan sport, look at Ringo with all of his "We won, you lost" posts.

Trying to blame it all on the other side is like blaming a defeat on the ref or the other side cheating, you just don't want to accept that your side has done anything wrong.

Although I think on top of that a lot of people don't realise the implications of May's red lines and what it meant in terms of the kind of Brexit that would be delivered. If you believed the initial promises then chances are you won't be aware of the implications of those red lines because you already believe that a great deal where we hold all the cards is possible.

Democracy - it means sometimes you lose.

If you refuse to accept that, you are not a Democrat.

Or you're Jo Swinson!

[Colburn_Claret]

"...circumstances outside brexiteer's control..." - unbelievable that you blame the current failure of brexit on everyone but brexiters. And equally astounding that you've resigned yourself to a brexit that could be a disaster for this country. But then a few people on your side have managed to interpret a yes or no vote as being a mandate for hard brexit - which it is most certainly not. Faced with this I'm not surprised that some Remain people are hoping the whole thing gets revoked, as in comparison with the "chopping your own balls off" brexit, I'd say it's a perfectly reasonable position to take.

Brexit means Brexit, how could people who argued and fought on the doorsteps to leave the EU, accept a WA agreement that left us tied to Europe, still paying a hell of a lot of money into it, but with even less say over proceedings than we had before. Voting against it was a no brainer. On the other hand all those remainers had the opportunity to keep us tied to the EU. They could have accepted May's betrayal, but they voted against it, because party politics , and scoring points was more important to them.

You claim that a yes or no vote doesn't give a mandate for a hard Brexit. So why didn't they pose the question better in the original vote. Nobody complained about the wording of the question at the time. Only when they lost the vote did it suddenly become an issue. The people want to leave, so we should leave, end of.
How we left was up to the people in charge, they messed it up, that's why Boris has just been made PM.

I'm not getting into how we fare outside the EU, it's pointless as you've made your mind up. Only time will tell which of us was right.

[RingoMcCartney]

The total number of votes, and the value of that vote, are almost always not the same.

As proven by previous elections, if you vote for the Tories or for Labour then your vote will have more value than a vote for the Lib Dems.

In a referendum all votes are equal value. One person one. As it's part of democracy I expect you not to respect or accept it. Not bothered either way to be honest.

[Colburn_Claret]

It’s as if the ERG don’t exist!

What has it to do with ERG. The only way they could have ensured a Brexit was to vote for May's WA, and as I've already stated it was deal that broke all the red lines that Brexit promised.

[AndrewJB]

Re. the Northern Ireland situation, I don't recall the Remain side going on about it either. Is the implication that everybody knew it would be a problem but both sides decided to keep it quiet, or that only Leave realised it would be a problem and Remain didn't, or that no-one realised it would be a problem?

A hard border is absurd. (Every driven near Clones? The road crosses the border 4 times in 10 miles. We won't have four sets of double border gates on that road, I promise you.) Therefore the powers that be should have decided from the start that there wouldn't be a hard border, and got on with finding a solution. Which can be done, whatever the naysayers may claim.

I don't remember either side talking about it. One of the reasons for this is it was expected by both sides that some sort of free trade deal would be in place or that we'd remain in the customs union and single market. A contributing factor might also be that Northern Ireland issues just don't resonate on the mainland.

Okay - here's something I found: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ish-border" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Major and Blair talking about it weeks before the vote. I've tried to find Leave responses to that, but only found a remain website version of it (so all negative toward leave). https://infacts.org/remember-how-brexit ... a-problem/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Still makes interesting reading.

[AndrewJB]

Brexit means Brexit, how could people who argued and fought on the doorsteps to leave the EU, accept a WA agreement that left us tied to Europe, still paying a hell of a lot of money into it, but with even less say over proceedings than we had before. Voting against it was a no brainer. On the other hand all those remainers had the opportunity to keep us tied to the EU. They could have accepted May's betrayal, but they voted against it, because party politics , and scoring points was more important to them.

You claim that a yes or no vote doesn't give a mandate for a hard Brexit. So why didn't they pose the question better in the original vote. Nobody complained about the wording of the question at the time. Only when they lost the vote did it suddenly become an issue. The people want to leave, so we should leave, end of.
How we left was up to the people in charge, they messed it up, that's why Boris has just been made PM.

I'm not getting into how we fare outside the EU, it's pointless as you've made your mind up. Only time will tell which of us was right.

Remain supporting MPs voted down May's deal because it was a bad one. It was withdrawal only, and had no provisions for a trade deal other than a two year window. If it took her over two years just to agree a withdrawal agreement, then what hope for something far more complex?

What leave looked like should have been a conversation the whole country had after the referendum. The government tried to hijack it and keep everyone else out of the loop.

Again though - as I've shown - the failures can't be hung on the door of the remain camp.

[nil_desperandum]

What has it to do with ERG. The only way they could have ensured a Brexit was to vote for May's WA, and as I've already stated it was deal that broke all the red lines that Brexit promised.

Have you read it?, because actually it didn't. It may have blurred some of the minor ones, but the most sensitive areas for most people, (i.e. Customs Union, Single Market and Freedom of Movt red lines) were not breached.
If she'd been prepared to make some compromise on at least one of those, then the deal would have passed back in March.
[But she was controlled by the ERG and the DUP]

[aggi]

This was a little pointed

[northernpowerhouse]

Re. the Northern Ireland situation, I don't recall the Remain side going on about it either. Is the implication that everybody knew it would be a problem but both sides decided to keep it quiet, or that only Leave realised it would be a problem and Remain didn't, or that no-one realised it would be a problem

It's not about whether people realised it would be a problem or not, it's that Vote Leave specifically said it wouldn't be a problem. Theresa Villiers (leading Vote Leave figure and Northern Ireland secretary) promised a frictionless border after Brexit. Owen Paterson (another Vote Leave figure and ex-Northern Ireland secretary) said the same. Either they lied or they were too stupid to understand their brief.

A hard border is absurd. (Every driven near Clones? The road crosses the border 4 times in 10 miles. We won't have four sets of double border gates on that road, I promise you.) Therefore the powers that be should have decided from the start that there wouldn't be a hard border, and got on with finding a solution.

They did find a solution: the Irish backstop. The EU also found other solutions: a N.Ireland-only backstop or a Norway-style Brexit. The Brexiters rejected them all and don't have an alternative.

[Imploding Turtle]

I think the Brextremists should be really worried about an election before October 31st given how much of a liar Boris has proven to be because he can attract their votes by promising an extreme Brexit and then once elected to a 5-year term he will be able to do whatever he wants with Brexit.

[dsr]

It's not about whether people realised it would be a problem or not, it's that Vote Leave specifically said it wouldn't be a problem. Theresa Villiers (leading Vote Leave figure and Northern Ireland secretary) promised a frictionless border after Brexit. Owen Paterson (another Vote Leave figure and ex-Northern Ireland secretary) said the same. Either they lied or they were too stupid to understand their brief.



They did find a solution: the Irish backstop. The EU also found other solutions: a N.Ireland-only backstop or a Norway-style Brexit. The Brexiters rejected them all and don't have an alternative.

And it won't be a problem. Even under WTO rules, which do not specify a hard border, the problem of having a physical border is so insurmountable that a solution would be found. The basis of the paperwork on exports to Ireland is already in place; every export already has specific paperwork. The paperwork would be amended, and the way HMRC checks it would also be amended. There is no rule that says every import and export should be physically checked; there is no rule that says there must be random checks of imports and exports.

[AndrewJB]

And it won't be a problem. Even under WTO rules, which do not specify a hard border, the problem of having a physical border is so insurmountable that a solution would be found. The basis of the paperwork on exports to Ireland is already in place; every export already has specific paperwork. The paperwork would be amended, and the way HMRC checks it would also be amended. There is no rule that says every import and export should be physically checked; there is no rule that says there must be random checks of imports and exports.

If that's the case, then why do the extremists have an opposition to the backstop? As soon as the technology is put into place to implement the border, then that's the end of the backstop, right?

[dsr]

If that's the case, then why do the extremists have an opposition to the backstop? As soon as the technology is put into place to implement the border, then that's the end of the backstop, right?

For one thing, the "extremists" want to leave the EU now, not at some unspecified time later; for another, because the "extremists" don't think it right that a crucial part of UK foreign policy should be determined by a foreign power and the UK have no say in it, in perpetuity.

But to think that it's "extreme" to want an independent UK - that's how ridiculous it has become.

[aggi]

There are quite a few articles out there on the Norway-Sweden border and how it is potentially a model for the Irish border. The conclusion is generally that at the moment it can be pretty frictionless but not entirely, which probably won't meet the criteria for the Irish border. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41412561" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No-one expects every import and export to be physically checked but some will have to be if we're serious about setting our own tariffs, controlling our own borders, etc

The solution here for a lot of Brexiteers seems to be the same as No Deal, etc. It's all being blown out of proportion, we already have the technology, it won't happen in reality. They're all very short of nitty-gritty detail though.

[Rick_Muller]

found this cartoon funny...

Boris.jpg (68.76 KiB) Viewed 1515 times

[AndrewJB]

For one thing, the "extremists" want to leave the EU now, not at some unspecified time later; for another, because the "extremists" don't think it right that a crucial part of UK foreign policy should be determined by a foreign power and the UK have no say in it, in perpetuity.

But to think that it's "extreme" to want an independent UK - that's how ridiculous it has become.

We're already independent. Do you want us to also leave NATO and the UN because they also impede our freedom?

And we either have the technology as you indicated above, or we don't. The Northern Ireland Peace Agreement is important, and something we've signed up to. We can't just ignore it, so brexit has to be built around it.

And yes I think the term extreme is appropriate for a group of people who want that particular hard type of brexit (which wasn't on the ballot) so badly they're willing to turn their backs on a treaty we signed as a sovereign nation.

[nil_desperandum]

For one thing, the "extremists" want to leave the EU now, not at some unspecified time later; for another, because the "extremists" don't think it right that a crucial part of UK foreign policy should be determined by a foreign power and the UK have no say in it, in perpetuity.
.

That's the bit I don't get. Although theoretically the backstop could be for perpetuity, in reality if May's proposal had passed but we didn't like how things were going and we felt trapped by the backstop, then we could just walk away with no deal at any point in the future. (So no different to now in reality).
Ultimately, surely, we can walk away with no deal tomorrow or any day if it gets through the Commons?

[Bordeauxclaret]

Priti Vacant, Dominic Raab and Javid given top jobs.

[ClaretMoffitt]

This must be the most right wing government of my lifetime.

Priti Patel as home secretary, Boris as PM, Raab as foreign sec, Javid is a massive an upgrade of Hammond.

Loving it.

The lefties are in absolute meltdown on twitter, its literally like the EU referendum all over again.