Boris

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Imploding Turtle
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Re: Boris

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:29 pm

dsr wrote:The "good thing" is that the referendum result will finally be implemented, and it will benefit the people of this country because it will show that democracy is still alive and the government is there to serve the people, not vice versa.

Obviously I wanted us to leave the EU all along and IMO it will be good when we do. But there's an even bigger principle about democracy here. And even if I thought it was a stupid decision to leave the EU, I would still think it more important that the people be allowed to make stupid decisions and that no-one has the right to overturn the people's decision - because then, that's not democracy any more.

Nope. You don't believe in democracy at all. You argue against democracy when faced with the possibility that we have changed our mind. You whine like an abused dog any time someone points out that if a second referendum looks likely to show that we've changed our minds about leaving the EU, and if that is what we vote you want our government to ignore that result.

You're full of ****, and so is everyone else who goes on about "we must implement the result" against the will of the people in the event of a second vote. You know how lucky you got three years ago. You know that the win was stolen by corruption, criminality and lies, and you know that when the debate is based purely on the facts that you've got absolutely **** all to fight with. This is why you're scared shitless over a second vote, and it's why you come out with this nonsensical idea that we must implement a result that we no longer want to implement. You're the enemy of democracy, not a supporter of it.

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Re: Boris

Post by AndyClaret » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:35 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Nope. You don't believe in democracy at all. You argue against democracy when faced with the possibility that we have changed our mind. You whine like an abused dog any time someone points out that if a second referendum looks likely to show that we've changed our minds about leaving the EU, and if that is what we vote you want our government to ignore that result.

You're full of ****, and so is everyone else who goes on about "we must implement the result" against the will of the people in the event of a second vote. You know how lucky you got three years ago. You know that the win was stolen by corruption, criminality and lies, and you know that when the debate is based purely on the facts that you've got absolutely **** all to fight with. This is why you're scared shitless over a second vote, and it's why you come out with this nonsensical idea that we must implement a result that we no longer want to implement. You're the enemy of democracy, not a supporter of it.
"We have changed our minds" whose this we you speak of ?

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Re: Boris

Post by Winstonswhite » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:43 pm

Surely you can appreciate that it might be a lot of things but it can’t possibly be undemocratic to have another vote?

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Re: Boris

Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:05 pm

Can he get Steve Smith out? If he can I will get on his side.

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Re: Boris

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:07 pm

Even more unpopular than Brown's government when he was voted out.

Image

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Re: Boris

Post by Erasmus » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:36 pm

Dsr, I am sorry but that again amounts to nothing at all. Big loss for no gain. On the other thread, I pointed out that the purest form of democracy would be to have monthly referendums on ongoing policy implementation. This was how democracy was practised in ancient Athens when it was developed as a form of government. Obviously, we shouldn't do that because it is a wholly impractical system for a modern state, but if we were to hold a second referendum then that wouldn't be a betrayal of democracy but a step closer to democracy in its purer form.

And as it now appears that brexit is going to wreck our economy, it would seem that a second referendum would not only be a step towards that purer form of democracy it would also be a very practical measure to take if this wreckage were avoided.

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Re: Boris

Post by Damo » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:40 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Nope. You don't believe in democracy at all. You argue against democracy when faced with the possibility that we have changed our mind. You whine like an abused dog any time someone points out that if a second referendum looks likely to show that we've changed our minds about leaving the EU, and if that is what we vote you want our government to ignore that result.

You're full of ****, and so is everyone else who goes on about "we must implement the result" against the will of the people in the event of a second vote. You know how lucky you got three years ago. You know that the win was stolen by corruption, criminality and lies, and you know that when the debate is based purely on the facts that you've got absolutely **** all to fight with. This is why you're scared shitless over a second vote, and it's why you come out with this nonsensical idea that we must implement a result that we no longer want to implement. You're the enemy of democracy, not a supporter of it.
Hes off again

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Re: Boris

Post by Damo » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:49 pm

It looks like the people of NI are getting on board with the rest of us now.
Boris really is uniting the people

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Re: Boris

Post by Spijed » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:08 pm

Damo wrote:It looks like the people of NI are getting on board with the rest of us now.
Boris really is uniting the people
Uniting people?

I notice you fail to mention the hatred people have shown him in both Scotland and Wales!

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Re: Boris

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:14 pm

Spijed wrote:Uniting people?

I notice you fail to mention the hatred people have shown him in both Scotland and Wales!

Of course he didn't. That would prove how full of **** he is.

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Re: Boris

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:26 pm

He can't even "unit" his party to keep their own majority, and I'm expected to believe that after going to Scotland and getting booed so much he had to leave through the back door, and after getting booed in Wales, that he's uniting the country because Northern Ireland didn't tar and feather him. :lol:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 30576.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Boris

Post by nil_desperandum » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:34 pm

I think you're being unfair to Damo. When he spoke of uniting people he must have mean't uniting the whole of Ireland.
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Re: Boris

Post by tiger76 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:12 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Even more unpopular than Brown's government when he was voted out.

Image
And yet despite those dire numbers,the Conservatives are still out polling Labour,and Corbyn's personal ratings are tanking. :?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 03251.html

What telling is Corbyn's ambivalence on brexit is dragging his and Labour's numbers down,clearly a lot of potential Labour voters see the Lib Dems as a viable short-term alternative.

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Re: Boris

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:24 pm

tiger76 wrote:And yet despite those dire numbers,the Conservatives are still out polling Labour,and Corbyn's personal ratings are tanking. :?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 03251.html

What telling is Corbyn's ambivalence on brexit is dragging his and Labour's numbers down,clearly a lot of potential Labour voters see the Lib Dems as a viable short-term alternative.

If proof was ever needed that FPTP is not democratic in this country it would be a massively unpopular government like Boris' "winning" reelection because although the vast majority of the electorate despise his government, those people vote for a number of different parties.

The 2015 election was the worst election in our history, but the next one might manage to be even worse.

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Re: Boris

Post by tiger76 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:57 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:If proof was ever needed that FPTP is not democratic in this country it would be a massively unpopular government like Boris' "winning" reelection because although the vast majority of the electorate despise his government, those people vote for a number of different parties.

The 2015 election was the worst election in our history, but the next one might manage to be even worse.
Totally agree regarding FPTP,but that's the system we currently have,so until such times as a progressive government takes office,or there is a broad church of coalition parties that can enact meaningful electoral reform,we're stuck with the current outdated arrangements i'm afraid.

There is no incentive for either main party to rock the boat because they both disproportionately benefit in the vast majority of seats due to tactical voting.

It's no coincidence that elections which are fought on PR see a much lower vote share for both Labour and the Conservatives,and the Greens gain three or four fold,as do UKIP and lately the BP,because voters aren't forced to choose the least worst option in many cases.

There is talk of an electoral pact between the Lib Dems and other parties but whether this will continue post-brexit(if brexit happens) remains to be seen.

The last governing party before 2017 to pass 40% of vote share was Tony Blair's 2nd term in 2001,and that was barely,he only got 35% in 2005 and yet still achieved a comfortable majority,due to a split opposition.

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Re: Boris

Post by Siddo » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:11 pm

Just a reminder that 17.4 million people voted remain in 1975. Why is the 2016 referendum not classed as undemocratic?

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Re: Boris

Post by Burnley Ace » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:17 pm

The easiest way to settle this is to leave at midnight on the 31st Oct and then rejoin on exactly the same terms at 00:00:01 on the 1st Nov. The result of the referendum implemented, democracy upheld and Parliament is sovereign.

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Re: Boris

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:43 pm

tiger76 wrote:Totally agree regarding FPTP,but that's the system we currently have,so until such times as a progressive government takes office,or there is a broad church of coalition parties that can enact meaningful electoral reform,we're stuck with the current outdated arrangements i'm afraid.

There is no incentive for either main party to rock the boat because they both disproportionately benefit in the vast majority of seats due to tactical voting.

It's no coincidence that elections which are fought on PR see a much lower vote share for both Labour and the Conservatives,and the Greens gain three or four fold,as do UKIP and lately the BP,because voters aren't forced to choose the least worst option in many cases.

There is talk of an electoral pact between the Lib Dems and other parties but whether this will continue post-brexit(if brexit happens) remains to be seen.

The last governing party before 2017 to pass 40% of vote share was Tony Blair's 2nd term in 2001,and that was barely,he only got 35% in 2005 and yet still achieved a comfortable majority,due to a split opposition.
The individual MP elections being FPTP is even more stupid. 172 MPs were elected with a minority of the vote in 2017. A joke.

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Re: Boris

Post by dsr » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:46 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Nope. You don't believe in democracy at all. You argue against democracy when faced with the possibility that we have changed our mind. You whine like an abused dog any time someone points out that if a second referendum looks likely to show that we've changed our minds about leaving the EU, and if that is what we vote you want our government to ignore that result.

You're full of ****, and so is everyone else who goes on about "we must implement the result" against the will of the people in the event of a second vote. You know how lucky you got three years ago. You know that the win was stolen by corruption, criminality and lies, and you know that when the debate is based purely on the facts that you've got absolutely **** all to fight with. This is why you're scared shitless over a second vote, and it's why you come out with this nonsensical idea that we must implement a result that we no longer want to implement. You're the enemy of democracy, not a supporter of it.
Are you allowed out in public? Your swearing is definitely a problem. Have you ever tried to control yourself? Or are you a bit more temperate in speech than you are in writing?

You think the government can lie and deceive and do what it wants regardless of the vote, and you call that democracy as long as eventually they have another vote. You, presumably, would believe the government if they said they would implement the result this time. If the government fools you once, then shame on the government. Fool you twice, shame on you. If the government openly ays that they lied about their first promise but this time you can believe us, we're tellng the truth, why do you believe them? I didn't think you were a fan of Governments anyway. More of a libertarian.

I think democracy means giving the people what they voted for. You don't. If the government had said at the time that it would not implement the results of the referendum, but that it would dither and bicker and faff before deciding that the job was too hard and they wish they hadn't asked but will have another (skewed) referendum, then implement it if they felt like it, you might have had a case for calling that democracy.
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Re: Boris

Post by martin_p » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:53 pm

dsr wrote:Are you allowed out in public? Your swearing is definitely a problem. Have you ever tried to control yourself? Or are you a bit more temperate in speech than you are in writing?

You think the government can lie and deceive and do what it wants regardless of the vote, and you call that democracy as long as eventually they have another vote. You, presumably, would believe the government if they said they would implement the result this time. If the government fools you once, then shame on the government. Fool you twice, shame on you. If the government openly ays that they lied about their first promise but this time you can believe us, we're tellng the truth, why do you believe them? I didn't think you were a fan of Governments anyway. More of a libertarian.

I think democracy means giving the people what they voted for. You don't. If the government had said at the time that it would not implement the results of the referendum, but that it would dither and bicker and faff before deciding that the job was too hard and they wish they hadn't asked but will have another (skewed) referendum, then implement it if they felt like it, you might have had a case for calling that democracy.
Governments promise plenty they don’t deliver but no one gets on their high horse about democracy then.

The government have tried and failed to deliver the Brexit that was promised, the great deal for Britain. It either doesn’t exist or is impossible to achieve. So it looks like there’s only one way to leave the EU, but that’s a way that definitely wasn’t promised. The public needs the opportunity to say whether they want a Brexit that everyone admits (whether it he short or long term) will be damaging.

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Re: Boris

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:03 am

dsr wrote:Are you allowed out in public? Your swearing is definitely a problem. Have you ever tried to control yourself? Or are you a bit more temperate in speech than you are in writing?

You think the government can lie and deceive and do what it wants regardless of the vote, and you call that democracy as long as eventually they have another vote. You, presumably, would believe the government if they said they would implement the result this time. If the government fools you once, then shame on the government. Fool you twice, shame on you. If the government openly ays that they lied about their first promise but this time you can believe us, we're tellng the truth, why do you believe them? I didn't think you were a fan of Governments anyway. More of a libertarian.

I think democracy means giving the people what they voted for. You don't. If the government had said at the time that it would not implement the results of the referendum, but that it would dither and bicker and faff before deciding that the job was too hard and they wish they hadn't asked but will have another (skewed) referendum, then implement it if they felt like it, you might have had a case for calling that democracy.

Anyone else notice how much of this post is dsr just assuming and making things up things about me? See if you can count the number of times he actually engages in a point i've made and critiques it.

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Re: Boris

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:11 am

dsr wrote: I think democracy means giving the people what they voted for. You don't.
I assume you're basing this opinion on the fact that i support the government giving voters what they voted for, unless by way of a more recent vote we vote to not carry out the results of the 2016 referendum.

It's actually you who doesn't want to give people what they vote for, unless they vote for what you want. How do i know this? Because if we have another referendum and the result of that referendum is that we ignore the 2016 referendum, you want us to ignore the new referendum and carry out the result we specifically voted not to carry out.

You don't give a **** about democracy one bit. It's why you oppose a second referendum, it's why you oppose carrying out its result if it goes against you, it's why you oppose switching away from the Tory/Labour favoured FPTP. To people like you (yep, i used that term that triggers you lot so much) democracy isn't a tool to measure the will of the people, it's a means by which you lot want to keep power increasingly against the will of the people.

If you gave a **** about the will of the people you'd want a confirmatory vote, and you'd want proportional representation. You want neither.

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Re: Boris

Post by dsr » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:33 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I assume you're basing this opinion on the fact that i support the government giving voters what they voted for, unless by way of a more recent vote we vote to not carry out the results of the 2016 referendum.

It's actually you who doesn't want to give people what they vote for, unless they vote for what you want. How do i know this? Because if we have another referendum and the result of that referendum is that we ignore the 2016 referendum, you want us to ignore the new referendum and carry out the result we specifically voted not to carry out.

You don't give a **** about democracy one bit. It's why you oppose a second referendum, it's why you oppose carrying out its result if it goes against you, it's why you oppose switching away from the Tory/Labour favoured FPTP. To people like you (yep, i used that term that triggers you lot so much) democracy isn't a tool to measure the will of the people, it's a means by which you lot want to keep power increasingly against the will of the people.

If you gave a **** about the will of the people you'd want a confirmatory vote, and you'd want proportional representation. You want neither.
"Anyone else notice how much of this post is ************** just assuming and making things up things about me? See if you can count the number of times he actually engages in a point i've made and critiques it.

You really are so much in love with your own ego that you can't even see when you're making a fool of yourself.
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Re: Boris

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:35 am

dsr wrote:"Anyone else notice how much of this post is ************** just assuming and making things up things about me? See if you can count the number of times he actually engages in a point i've made and critiques it.

You really are so much in love with your own ego that you can't even see when you're making a fool of yourself.

I think anyone who get as triggered as you do by words you can't even read should perhaps not tell other people that they're the ones making a fool of themselves.

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Re: Boris

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:09 am

No ******* wonder Boris is talking about 20,000 extra police. We're gonna ******* need them.

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-faces-pot ... t-11775217" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Boris

Post by Damo » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:51 am

You can always count on remainers to put a negative slant on 20,000 extra police officers

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Re: Boris

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:56 am

No one's putting a negative slant on it.

But these 20k extra police is either because Brexit is going to be a disaster, or an admission that the last 9 years of austerity was bullshit and unnecessary. I'll let you decide which one it is. Or maybe it's both.
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Re: Boris

Post by HunterST_BFC » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:40 am

Bald Boris.
Fighting it the Trump way.

Watch this happening. It already is

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Re: Boris

Post by evensteadiereddie » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:24 am

Damo wrote:You can always count on remainers to put a negative slant on 20,000 extra police officers
Not a negative slant to point out that this is only, in essence, a reinstatement of the 20,000 officers cut by well, you know who, I hope.
Desperate Damo sinks yet again.

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Re: Boris

Post by dsr » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:52 am

Well, here's some discussion since that's what it's for.

Why would passenger throughput slow down? Does it take longer to show an EU passport at a border control in an EU country, than it does to show an EU passport at a border control in a non-EU country.

Why would there be food shortages? If imports are in a bottleneck because of different paperwork, which is more likely - that the government says "suck it up, losers, this is what you voted for" or that the government (as is already planned) has a tariff holiday and lets the goods through anyway? I think, bearing in mind that the government actually wants to win votes, that option two is a racing certainty.

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Re: Boris

Post by Greenmile » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:54 am

dsr wrote:Well, here's some discussion since that's what it's for.

Why would passenger throughput slow down? Does it take longer to show an EU passport at a border control in an EU country, than it does to show an EU passport at a border control in a non-EU country.

Why would there be food shortages? If imports are in a bottleneck because of different paperwork, which is more likely - that the government says "suck it up, losers, this is what you voted for" or that the government (as is already planned) has a tariff holiday and lets the goods through anyway? I think, bearing in mind that the government actually wants to win votes, that option two is a racing certainty.
Is this what “taking control of our borders” looks like nowadays, then?

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Re: Boris

Post by Tall Paul » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:22 am

dsr wrote:Well, here's some discussion since that's what it's for.

Why would passenger throughput slow down? Does it take longer to show an EU passport at a border control in an EU country, than it does to show an EU passport at a border control in a non-EU country.
Yes.
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Re: Boris

Post by martin_p » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:36 am

dsr wrote:Well, here's some discussion since that's what it's for.

Why would passenger throughput slow down? Does it take longer to show an EU passport at a border control in an EU country, than it does to show an EU passport at a border control in a non-EU country.

Why would there be food shortages? If imports are in a bottleneck because of different paperwork, which is more likely - that the government says "suck it up, losers, this is what you voted for" or that the government (as is already planned) has a tariff holiday and lets the goods through anyway? I think, bearing in mind that the government actually wants to win votes, that option two is a racing certainty.
At the very least they normally ask non-Eu nationals why they want to enter the U.K. Plus there’s possible visa checks and possibly other checks if you’re coming here for work or study. Even if this were just to add an average of ten seconds per check (and I suspect it’ll be longer) then that’s and extra minute to get six people through and about an extra 40 minutes to get an average sized plane full through.

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Re: Boris

Post by dsr » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:42 am

martin_p wrote:At the very least they normally ask non-Eu nationals why they want to enter the U.K. Plus there’s possible visa checks and possibly other checks if you’re coming here for work or study. Even if this were just to add an average of ten seconds per check (and I suspect it’ll be longer) then that’s and extra minute to get six people through and about an extra 40 minutes to get an average sized plane full through.
And what if they don't ask those questions? I doubt that Customs will suddenly assume that the terrorist threat from the EU will change just because we aren't in it; and I don't think the rules on studying/working in the UK for EU nationals will change on day 1, or that Customs will be asked to enforce them with a heavy hand.

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Re: Boris

Post by dsr » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:44 am

Greenmile wrote:Is this what “taking control of our borders” looks like nowadays, then?
You aren't the only Remainer who thought that "take control of our borders" meant that EU nationals couldn't come in, even on holiday. There will be no difference to who is allowed to come, and there will (at first, certainly and later, probably) be no visa requirement for EU nationals to come; the difference will be in what they are allowed to do when they get here.

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Re: Boris

Post by Greenmile » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:45 am

2016 - “we need to take control of our borders. Being in the EU prevents us from being able to do this.”

2019 - “**** it. Just wave everything and everyone through. It’ll be reyt.”

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Re: Boris

Post by martin_p » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:46 am

dsr wrote:And what if they don't ask those questions? I doubt that Customs will suddenly assume that the terrorist threat from the EU will change just because we aren't in it; and I don't think the rules on studying/working in the UK for EU nationals will change on day 1, or that Customs will be asked to enforce them with a heavy hand.
So taking back control of our borders is in fact not making any changes at all to our border controls then!

The rules will change on day 1 if we leave with no deal. Why do you think they’re suddenly splashing no deal preparation money on border officers if it won’t?

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Re: Boris

Post by Greenmile » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:47 am

dsr wrote:You aren't the only Remainer who thought that "take control of our borders" meant that EU nationals couldn't come in, even on holiday. There will be no difference to who is allowed to come, and there will (at first, certainly and later, probably) be no visa requirement for EU nationals to come; the difference will be in what they are allowed to do when they get here.
How do we control what they are allowed to do when they get here? Bear in mind that all these EU nationals are currently working for less than minimum wage (apparently) so they won’t be on the books.

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Re: Boris

Post by dsr » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:47 am

Greenmile wrote:2016 - “we need to take control of our borders. Being in the EU prevents us from being able to do this.”

2019 - “**** it. Just wave everything and everyone through. It’ll be reyt.”
But in the intervening three years, some remainers have managed to grasp what "take control of the borders" means.

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Re: Boris

Post by dsr » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:49 am

martin_p wrote:So taking back control of our borders is in fact not making any changes at all to our border controls then!

The rules will change on day 1 if we leave with no deal. Why do you think they’re suddenly splashing no deal preparation money on border officers if it won’t?
They don't need to make instant changes. The changes they need will be phased in to minimise disruption.

"Taking control of our borders" doesn't mean preventing ordinary visitors from coming to the UK. It never did. A lot of Remainers have never grasped that; you aren't alone.

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Re: Boris

Post by martin_p » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:52 am

dsr wrote:They don't need to make instant changes. The changes they need will be phased in to minimise disruption.

"Taking control of our borders" doesn't mean preventing ordinary visitors from coming to the UK. It never did. A lot of Remainers have never grasped that; you aren't alone.
I haven’t mentioned not letting anyone in once, neither has anyone else. You were saying getting through border control will be just as quick after Brexit, it’s highly likely it won’t. How do you ascertain what people are coming here to do if you don’t ask them? If it’s all going to be the same why have the government announced £344m spending on border and customs to ease the pain?

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Re: Boris

Post by Greenmile » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:54 am

dsr wrote:But in the intervening three years, some remainers have managed to grasp what "take control of the borders" means.
Yes. Apparently it means just letting everyone and everything into the UK without any checks at all. I don’t recall the Leave campaign framing it that way in 2016, though. That probably why us remainers are struggling to grasp the complexities of it all.

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Re: Boris

Post by bpgburn » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:02 am

I would imagine things will work very much along the same lines as travelling for work or leisure outside of the EU at present. I travel to USA and Canada as well as other none EU countries. If visas are required you get them in order and accepted before your journey, on arrival you are usually asked a few questions, what's your nature of work? where will you be staying? how long for yadda yadda? Then you're on your way, no long queues, no delays all very painless. I don't see why it will be any different here?

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Re: Boris

Post by martin_p » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:04 am

bpgburn wrote:I would imagine things will work very much along the same lines as travelling for work or leisure outside of the EU at present. I travel to USA and Canada as well as other none EU countries. If visas are required you get them in order and accepted before your journey, on arrival you are usually asked a few questions, what's your nature of work? where will you be staying? how long for yadda yadda? Then you're on your way, no long queues, no delays all very painless. I don't see why it will be any different here?
Because EU nationals don’t have to do that now. I’ve demonstrated above the impact of it taking an extra ten seconds per passenger (and I think that’s a conservative estimate) to get through border controls on a plane full of people.
Last edited by martin_p on Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Boris

Post by Tall Paul » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:05 am

bpgburn wrote:I would imagine things will work very much along the same lines as travelling for work or leisure outside of the EU at present. I travel to USA and Canada as well as other none EU countries. If visas are required you get them in order and accepted before your journey, on arrival you are usually asked a few questions, what's your nature of work? where will you be staying? how long for yadda yadda? Then you're on your way, no long queues, no delays all very painless. I don't see why it will be any different here?
No long queues at US Immigration? Really?

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Re: Boris

Post by aggi » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:15 am

bpgburn wrote:I would imagine things will work very much along the same lines as travelling for work or leisure outside of the EU at present. I travel to USA and Canada as well as other none EU countries. If visas are required you get them in order and accepted before your journey, on arrival you are usually asked a few questions, what's your nature of work? where will you be staying? how long for yadda yadda? Then you're on your way, no long queues, no delays all very painless. I don't see why it will be any different here?
In the US you still need fingerprints taking, customs form, etc. It's a lot quicker than it used to be but even on a good day it's probably ten times longer than going through passport control/customs in the EU.

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Re: Boris

Post by bpgburn » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:16 am

Tall Paul wrote:No long queues at US Immigration? Really?
No longer than you would expect with the volume of flights etc, my point was that they move freely with no long delays.

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Re: Boris

Post by aggi » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:17 am

I do like dsr's solution to any problem though "We just won't check anything, that will speed it all up and I'm sure that everyone will behave".
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Re: Boris

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:22 am

dsr wrote:They don't need to make instant changes. The changes they need will be phased in to minimise disruption.

"Taking control of our borders" doesn't mean preventing ordinary visitors from coming to the UK. It never did. A lot of Remainers have never grasped that; you aren't alone.
What did they mean by 'taking back control of our borders' in terms of leaving the EU?

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Re: Boris

Post by Greenmile » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:23 am

aggi wrote:I do like dsr's solution to any problem though "We just won't check anything, that will speed it all up and I'm sure that everyone will behave".

...and that’s what “taking control of our borders” meant all along apparently. It’s just that us remainers were too stupid to grasp it.

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