Central midfield

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:23 pm

Fantastic.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:23 pm

Its sunday night...who does medicals at 8.00 pm on sunday night?

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:24 pm

Nothing on here about it from what I can see

https://www.skysports.com/transfer-centre

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:24 pm

It's not true... has less than 300 followers.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:24 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Steve1956 if you are right... I'm more than happy to buy you a meal, drinks and take you home for the night.

What will we do when we are home?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:24 pm

ClaretAL wrote:Nothing on here about it from what I can see

https://www.skysports.com/transfer-centre

Somebody made it up.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:26 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Somebody made it up.

Does that mean your not taking me home? ....gutted!

Iloveyoubrady · Post by **Iloveyoubrady** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:29 pm

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:30 pm

Steve1956 wrote: Its sunday night...who does medicals at 8.00 pm on sunday night?

Eric pieters had his medical on a saturday night if you read that interview with him last week so there is every chance it could be done on a sunday night . I know thats a fake account im just saying no reason why it cant be done the medical

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:31 pm

Reecey1987 wrote:Eric pieters had his medical on a saturday night if you read that interview with him last week so there is every chance it could be done on a sunday night . I know thats a fake account im just saying no reason why it cant be done the medical

Righto!

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:32 pm

Steve1956 wrote:Righto!

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:34 pm

Steve1956 wrote:Does that mean your not taking me home? ....gutted!

I think twice in one week is a bit over the top?

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:35 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I think twice in one week is a bit over the top?

Lightweight

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:56 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I rate Wood a lot, think I've made that pretty obvious but they are chalk and cheese. Wood is more a target man and Gray is a forward running off the defence.

I'd love to see them upfront together but still think SD can see Wood/Vydra as a partnership.

How is Wood a target man? Struggling to see that myself.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:18 pm

warksclaret wrote:CM should have been on our radar since Defour got injured mid last season. There is no shortage of them and they are not all out of our price range. We have been in the PL for the fourth year and a good player would likely start most weeks-that's something most PL clubs cannot offer
We have a Director Of Football now and all the stats in the world-so sorry guys no excuses. We need to pull our finger out
We were lucky last year that we had Huudersfield Fulham and Cardiff in the PL. Trying to think who might be below us this season. Villa look strong and Sheff Utd will be no push overs. Norwich I am not sure about but they were the stand out team in the Championship
Lets hope we can pull some quality rabbits out the hat in the next 10 days-its not looking god from where I sit

Just out of interest when are you going to start a new thread about how the premier league has moved on but we haven't?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:19 pm

Rileybobs wrote:How is Wood a target man? Struggling to see that myself.

How is he not? Of course he's a bloody target man.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:25 pm

FactualFrank wrote:How is he not? Of course he's a bloody target man.

The balls played to Wood tend to be played into the channels for him to run onto, hence the criticism of him always being offside.

The ball is rarely played up to his head or chest and whilst he’s capable of doing it, holding the ball up with his back to goal isn’t a great strength of his.

We use him in a similar way to which we used Gray although they obviously have slightly different attributes. In any case, I wouldn’t describe Wood as a target man. Vokes was a target man.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:37 pm

Rileybobs wrote:The balls played to Wood tend to be played into the channels for him to run onto, hence the criticism of him always being offside.

The ball is rarely played up to his head or chest and whilst he’s capable of doing it, holding the ball up with his back to goal isn’t a great strength of his.

We use him in a similar way to which we used Gray although they obviously have slightly different attributes. In any case, I wouldn’t describe Wood as a target man. Vokes was a target man.

No. Sorry. I know you don't rate him, but to say he isn't a target man is just plain wrong. Each to their own.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:43 pm

FactualFrank wrote:No. Sorry. I know you don't rate him, but to say he isn't a target man is just plain wrong. Each to their own.

I do rate him, I always have. He’s our best striker and most proficient goalscorer, you must be mistaking me for another username, which you seem to be doing quite often.

If you could explain which of his attributes you think make him a target man I’d be happy to debate.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:02 am

FactualFrank wrote:Well - the alternative is quick and pacey - he aint that.
But that doesn't matter. He's strong and tall and is .. well.. the player you target.

I notice you've resolved to the cancerous waste of human skin that you are as opposed to admitting I'm right.

Stick with the debate.

Cancerous waste of human skin? Jeez, you really have it in for me for some really weird reason.

I wouldn’t admit that you’re right because I don’t think you are. Wood is tall, but I wouldn’t say particularly strong, but that doesn’t make him a target man. Cork is tall, is he a target man?

Do we aim long balls directly to Wood? Do we direct our goal kicks towards him? If he was a target man I’d expect us to, but we don’t. We generally play balls into the channel for him to run onto, that for me is not a target man. As I said above, Vokes was a target man, they are entirely different players.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:07 am

Rileybobs wrote:Cancerous waste of human skin? Jeez, you really have it in for me for some really weird reason.

I wouldn’t admit that you’re right because I don’t think you are. Wood is tall, but I wouldn’t say particularly strong, but that doesn’t make him a target man. Cork is tall, is he a target man?

Do we aim long balls directly to Wood? Do we direct our goal kicks towards him? If he was a target man I’d expect us to, but we don’t. We generally play balls into the channel for him to run onto, that for me is not a target man. As I said above, Vokes was a target man, they are entirely different players.

Do we aim long balls directly to Wood? - yes.
Do we direct our goal kicks towards him? - we try, so yes

We also aim for him anywhere from midfield.

And by the way - aiming for him down the channel is still a target man.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:21 am

FactualFrank wrote:Do we aim long balls directly to Wood? - yes.
Do we direct our goal kicks towards him? - we try, so yes

We also aim for him anywhere from midfield.

And by the way - aiming for him down the channel is still a target man.

How do you want to define a target man? We played balls into the channel for Andre Gray. Was he a target man? For me, a target man is Mitrovic, Lukaku, Carroll. Vokes fits into that category, he was a relatively static target that we aimed balls towards, Chris Wood is entirely different.

Btw, your instant resort to petty, personal insults when challenged about anything is showing you up.

Swizzlestick · Post by **Swizzlestick** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:23 am

FactualFrank wrote: I notice you've resolved to the cancerous waste of human skin that you are as opposed to admitting I'm right.

What on earth is wrong with you?

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:29 am

Taking this thread back to its original subject matter, there are 3 points that strike me.

Firstly, we're at that point where it becomes quite natural for supporters to undervalue what we have and want "better". It strikes me that we're in that place with Cork and Westwood. Westwood was arguably our best player last season (and the end of seasons awards reflect that), whilst Cork has been part of a midfield that achieved nearly 30 points in the second half of last season (outstanding for a team like Burnley), and which finished 7th the season before. I'm not completely sure why he's being written off on the basis of a poor first half of last season, rather than judged on the evidence of the other three halves he's had with us.

Secondly, one of the lessons that I took from the second half of last season was that our midfield unit is much more effective when we had more help in that department. Hendrick offered that for large parts of the second half of last season (no coincidence that the game I saw our midfield 2 struggle the most in was away at Everton, when Hendrick was rested). This season, we've got more options who can help us supplement the midfield:McNeil should increasingly be able to drift into the centre to add numbers, Hendrick obviously can - but there's also Rodriguez who can drop in to supplement the midfield. That will help Cork, Westwood or whoever else plays in the "2" look good.

Finally, I think everyone agrees that now it has become clear Defour is still nowhere near fit, we definitely need another midfielder - and it's something Dyche himself has acknowledged. We were evidently in the running for the lad from Genk (which went under the radar until he'd practically signed for Atalanta, just to show that what's in the media isn't comprehensive), we've been linked with Klitch at Leeds and so on. So perhaps everyone's getting a bit antsy about this a bit quickly.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:35 am

claretspice wrote:Taking this thread back to its original subject matter, there are 3 points that strike me.

Firstly, we're at that point where it becomes quite natural for supporters to undervalue what we have and want "better". It strikes me that we're in that place with Cork and Westwood. Westwood was arguably our best player last season (and the end of seasons awards reflect that), whilst Cork has been part of a midfield that achieved nearly 30 points in the second half of last season (outstanding for a team like Burnley), and which finished 7th the season before. I'm not completely sure why he's being written off on the basis of a poor first half of last season, rather than judged on the evidence of the other three halves he's had with us.

Secondly, one of the lessons that I took from the second half of last season was that our midfield unit is much more effective when we had more help in that department. Hendrick offered that for large parts of the second half of last season (no coincidence that the game I saw our midfield 2 struggle the most in was away at Everton, when Hendrick was rested). This season, we've got more options who can help us supplement the midfield:McNeil should increasingly be able to drift into the centre to add numbers, Hendrick obviously can - but there's also Rodriguez who can drop in to supplement the midfield. That will help Cork, Westwood or whoever else plays in the "2" look good.

Finally, I think everyone agrees that now it has become clear Defour is still nowhere near fit, we definitely need another midfielder - and it's something Dyche himself has acknowledged. We were evidently in the running for the lad from Genk (which went under the radar until he'd practically signed for Atalanta, just to show that what's in the media isn't comprehensive), we've been linked with Klitch at Leeds and so on. So perhaps everyone's getting a bit antsy about this a bit quickly.

You make some valid points but forget about what an injury to the said Westwood and/or Cork would do to us. That would leave us with Hendrick in the middle who has proven time again not up to the task in the middle of a 4-4-2 for us - he was far more effective on the right as you have highlighted.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:45 am

RVclaret wrote:You make some valid points but forget about what an injury to the said Westwood and/or Cork would do to us. That would leave us with Hendrick in the middle who has proven time again not up to the task in the middle of a 4-4-2 for us - he was far more effective on the right as you have highlighted.

I haven't forgotten about it - it's covered by my final point. We need, at the least, cover in there. It's just might be ok if it's back up, especially back up that has potential to improve into a starter, rather than someone who immediately demands to displace our established two.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:50 am

FactualFrank wrote:Well - the alternative is quick and pacey - he aint that.
But that doesn't matter. He's strong and tall and is .. well.. the player you target.

I notice you've resolved to the cancerous waste of human skin that you are as opposed to admitting I'm right.

Stick with the debate.

Frank ...that's a disgusting thing to call someone,I'd be apologising if I was you.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:54 am

Swizzlestick wrote:What on earth is wrong with you?

I don’t know, but I’m about to put a complaint in to the mods for personal abuse. I think Frank’s maybe having a Black Dog day.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:56 am

We don't necessarily need a better midfielder but we do need a midfielder who is younger and more athletic who can at least challenge for a place or provide cover for injuries. Whether it's small and pacey, tall and strong, or creative it doesn't matter but we do need something different.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:56 am

Lord Beamish wrote:I don’t know, but I’m about to put a complaint in to the mods for personal abuse. I think Frank’s maybe having a Black Dog day.

LB we all get black dog days but Frank has gone over the top with that one,and I like Frank to

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:06 am

Oh, and in no meaningful way is Chris Wood a Target Man. He’s mediocre at best with his back to goal.

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:07 am

claretspice wrote:I haven't forgotten about it - it's covered by my final point. We need, at the least, cover in there. It's just might be ok if it's back up, especially back up that has potential to improve into a starter, rather than someone who immediately demands to displace our established two.

We can’t keep signing “back-up” year after year, but as you say, at the the very least it needs to be someone who we were hopeful could transition into a starter within a year or so.

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:14 am

claretspice wrote:I haven't forgotten about it - it's covered by my final point. We need, at the least, cover in there. It's just might be ok if it's back up, especially back up that has potential to improve into a starter, rather than someone who immediately demands to displace our established two.

No we need someone better than we already have

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:15 am

BOYSIE31 wrote:No we need someone better than we already have

Poor lamb! You’re just destined to be disappointed, aren’t you?

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:19 am

Since getting relegated its no surprise that a key reason for continued progression is that we've improved the Midfield every summer. We got Joey in the Championship who was massive to us getting promoted, we then got Defour and Hendrick and finally the following year got Cork who alongside Defour was brilliant. Inbetween all that we also signed Westwood who up until last season was just a really good back up.

Last summer was the first time for three years we didn't improve the midfield and we dropped like a stone and struggled. Lets hope in the next week or so we revert to the behaviours that saw us unbelievably reach 7th and not the lacklustre approach of last summer

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:20 am

Lord Beamish wrote:Poor lamb! You’re just destined to be disappointed, aren’t you?

No but you might come May.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:22 am

BOYSIE31 wrote:No but you might come May.

Probably not; whatever the eventuality.

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:48 am

Jolly good pleased for you

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:15 am

BOYSIE31 wrote:Jolly good pleased for you

I don’t think you are. Paradoxically, I think you’ll only be truly happy when everyone else is as miserable as yourself.

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:22 am

Lord Beamish wrote:I don’t think you are. Paradoxically, I think you’ll only be truly happy when everyone else is as miserable as yourself.

OK then

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:12 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:Since getting relegated its no surprise that a key reason for continued progression is that we've improved the Midfield every summer. We got Joey in the Championship who was massive to us getting promoted, we then got Defour and Hendrick and finally the following year got Cork who alongside Defour was brilliant. Inbetween all that we also signed Westwood who up until last season was just a really good back up.

Last summer was the first time for three years we didn't improve the midfield and we dropped like a stone and struggled. Lets hope in the next week or so we revert to the behaviours that saw us unbelievably reach 7th and not the lacklustre approach of last summer

I said this the other day. You're quite right that we did a lot of strengthening in midfield either side of our last promotion. But it's much easier to improve from a low base. The higher your base level, the harder it is to find improvement, and harder still at value for money. It's like my gold - when I first got lessons, I improved rapidly and my handicap dropped as a consequence. Now I'm half decent, eeking out the improvements is much harder because I've less natural scope for development.

The idea that you need to marquee signing in midfield every year just to stand still is for the birds, really.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:24 am

Rileybobs wrote:The balls played to Wood tend to be played into the channels for him to run onto, hence the criticism of him always being offside.

The ball is rarely played up to his head or chest and whilst he’s capable of doing it, holding the ball up with his back to goal isn’t a great strength of his.

We use him in a similar way to which we used Gray although they obviously have slightly different attributes. In any case, I wouldn’t describe Wood as a target man. Vokes was a target man.

Yes you are right about that. Wood is not the typical Vokes type target man. He is more an off the shoulder tpye player.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:34 am

FactualFrank wrote:Right... so what are people's thoughts on Shackleton of Leeds?

I prefer Shackleton's of Chatburn
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... gDR-TayRVE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:43 am

claretspice wrote:I said this the other day. You're quite right that we did a lot of strengthening in midfield either side of our last promotion. But it's much easier to improve from a low base. The higher your base level, the harder it is to find improvement, and harder still at value for money. It's like my gold - when I first got lessons, I improved rapidly and my handicap dropped as a consequence. Now I'm half decent, eeking out the improvements is much harder because I've less natural scope for development.

The idea that you need to marquee signing in midfield every year just to stand still is for the birds, really.

I don't dispute that its harder and had we had a fully fit Defour alongside Cork and Westwood with Hendrick as 4th choice id agree. What we need to do is replace Defour with similar quality which should not be back up for Westwood and Cork but genuine competition that gives Dyche a real headache.

I know its not easy but I think its a fair expectation to have for a club that is now in its 4th year competing in the top league with a lot of good talented and experienced people running it

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:24 pm

claretspice wrote:I said this the other day. You're quite right that we did a lot of strengthening in midfield either side of our last promotion. But it's much easier to improve from a low base. The higher your base level, the harder it is to find improvement, and harder still at value for money. It's like my gold - when I first got lessons, I improved rapidly and my handicap dropped as a consequence. Now I'm half decent, eeking out the improvements is much harder because I've less natural scope for development.

The idea that you need to marquee signing in midfield every year just to stand still is for the birds, really.

Any year will do.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:46 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:I don't dispute that its harder and had we had a fully fit Defour alongside Cork and Westwood with Hendrick as 4th choice id agree. What we need to do is replace Defour with similar quality which should not be back up for Westwood and Cork but genuine competition that gives Dyche a real headache.

I know its not easy but I think its a fair expectation to have for a club that is now in its 4th year competing in the top league with a lot of good talented and experienced people running it

As usual, I think Hendrick gets an unfair rep - for me, he's one of the genuine options at our disposal for a central slot alongside either Cork or Westwood. But that's a side point - nobody is suggesting for a second we don't need a another midfield option given Defour's unavailability. That includes Dyche, who has freely acknowledged it in interviews and has bid for at least one midfielder that we know about - broadly of the profile you want.

But what we don't want is a Defour-quality player with Defour-level injury problems. Finding someone of that calibre who doesn't have those issues on our budget is a real challenge. It may mean that we have to compromise a bit and look to someone who isn't quite so ready made - and if that's the case, then given that Westwood and Cork are good, proven Premier League players, it's far from disastrous.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:47 pm

summitclaret wrote:Any year will do.

But as we've already established, last summer was the first summer since that following our first promotion when we haven't markedly improved our midfield options.

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:50 pm

summitclaret wrote:Any year will do.

Jason Donovan.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:35 pm

claretspice wrote:As usual, I think Hendrick gets an unfair rep - for me, he's one of the genuine options at our disposal for a central slot alongside either Cork or Westwood. But that's a side point - nobody is suggesting for a second we don't need a another midfield option given Defour's unavailability. That includes Dyche, who has freely acknowledged it in interviews and has bid for at least one midfielder that we know about - broadly of the profile you want.

But what we don't want is a Defour-quality player with Defour-level injury problems. Finding someone of that calibre who doesn't have those issues on our budget is a real challenge. It may mean that we have to compromise a bit and look to someone who isn't quite so ready made - and if that's the case, then given that Westwood and Cork are good, proven Premier League players, it's far from disastrous.

Sounds like we agree on the most of it but are in slight disagreement on a few key bits but no point going over it any more as I think we've both made our points fairly.

The only thing I object to is your comment on Hendrick as that is lazily implying I am one of those who give him an unfair rep. I was a massive advocate of the 4-5-1 we played it at the start of the 17/18 season and thought Hendrick was perfect for that role. Whilst Defour and Brady were fit and in form I much preferred having Hendrick playing behind Wood than having Barnes and Wood up top as I thought we played a lot better football

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:49 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Sounds like we agree on the most of it but are in slight disagreement on a few key bits but no point going over it any more as I think we've both made our points fairly.

The only thing I object to is your comment on Hendrick as that is lazily implying I am one of those who give him an unfair rep. I was a massive advocate of the 4-5-1 we played it at the start of the 17/18 season and thought Hendrick was perfect for that role. Whilst Defour and Brady were fit and in form I much preferred having Hendrick playing behind Wood than having Barnes and Wood up top as I thought we played a lot better football

That wasn't my intention regarding Hendrick, it was a general point although I did get the impression that you didn't see him as a genuine option in the middle of a 4-4-2 - I think he is, and that he's had some excellent games for us in that role. In my opinion we're looking for someone to supplement our existing 3 options, not our existing 2 options.