To resolve the conundrum.

Pope

Lowton
Tarkowski
Mee
Taylor

Cork
Rodriguez
Westwood

Wood
Barnes
McNeil

Rodriguez playing ahead of Cork and Westwood.
The front 3 dropping back, as necessary.

In the continued absence of Defour...

Does that put Wood at right wing then? I’m confused.

Sorry Ian not for me. McNeil is, supposedly, going to end up as a midfielder and JRod has played left but We’ll be going 4-4-2 again.

Unless Barnes/Rodriguez play on the left, and Dwight on the right there’s no practical way to shoehorn Wood, Barnes and Jay into the same side.

It’ll be 4-4-2 unless Dyche wants to go back to the 4-3-3 of early 17/18.

Pope

Lowton
Tarkowski
Mee
Taylor

Gudmundsson
Westwood
*NEW* (I would like to think)
McNeil

Wood
Barnes

I would hope we have enough flexibility to have horses for courses.
Bar the CM spot, which we still hope will be filled by a.n.other, we have so many options going forward, that some good players are going to sit on the bench. Jay and McNeil play a similar game, and position. I think Jay is better for now, but its the wrong time to bench McNeil, he needs to keep playing. If Dwight's destination is CM, he needs to bulk up considerably to provide what we need.
Jay is flexible enough to play the wing, or behind a front man front two, but you cant do that without exposing the midfield, and that is still our Achilles heel.
I hope, and expect, that against the better teams, where we know we wont control midfield, it will be 442 with Barnes and Wood up front and fill the middle. Against the weaker teams, we should go for it, especially at home, and play 433. Play Jay behind the front two, picked on the abilities or weaknesses of the opposition defenders, with Dwight and JBG on the wings.

The only downside to that is changing the team so much, other teams seem to be able to do it quite easily, but we've always seemed to be stronger when we play the same team week in week out.

Within ten minutes on UTC I see a poster suggesting David Jones should sign on and now Wood right wing

It can be more flexible than any of those selections, particularly if Jay plays.

It'll be written as 4-4-2, but it'll be something close to a 4-4-1-1, and even a 4-3-3 in possession with Jay dropping deep and potentially even leftish, to allow space for McNeil in particular but also whoever is on the opposite flank, to drift into central areas.

Vydra and jay up front

SGr wrote:Unless Barnes/Rodriguez play on the left, and Dwight on the right there’s no practical way to shoehorn Wood, Barnes and Jay into the same side.

It’ll be 4-4-2 unless Dyche wants to go back to the 4-3-3 of early 17/18.

Pope

Lowton
Tarkowski
Mee
Taylor

Gudmundsson
Westwood
*NEW* (I would like to think)
McNeil

Wood
Barnes

4-3-3 can be played with central strikers drifting out wide so its possible. What isn't possible really is fitting McNeil into that too. He can play central midfield but not sure it would work out playing 3 strikers together with him. You'd need to have some pretty robust central midfielders to cover.

I agree with what people have already said, I think Dyche tried to change the system and failed and he will be scared to do it again. Can't see us playing anything other than 442 apart from maybe away games when we have no chance.

But its how we have to play to get anything from games until we get more technically gifted players.

theroyaldyche wrote:Vydra and jay up front

I'd like to see that.
Dwight Gayle seemed to thrive last season paired up with Jay.
Vydra's a similar type of player to Gayle.
Could work.

We don't have a 'conundrum'.

But in light of the midfield crisis hysteria..........

Heaton

Lowton
Tarky
Long
Gibson
Mee
Taylor

Vydra
Wood
Barnes
Rodders

Try the line up for the last game of the season with the same players and you can almost bet your house that's what we'll start with against Southampton

I think very much as last year, ie 442. The goalie is intriguing-maybe Heaton. However I see Jay Rod playing up front with Wood or Barnes and dropping back particularly away. Form will dictate whether Wood or Barnes start-but this is the sort of competition we need in CM

Heaton or Pope

Bardsley Tarks Mee Taylor
McNeil (New)Westwood JBG
Jay with Barnes or Wood

superdimitri wrote:4-3-3 can be played with central strikers drifting out wide so its possible. What isn't possible really is fitting McNeil into that too. He can play central midfield but not sure it would work out playing 3 strikers together with him. You'd need to have some pretty robust central midfielders to cover.

I agree with what people have already said, I think Dyche tried to change the system and failed and he will be scared to do it again. Can't see us playing anything other than 442 apart from maybe away games when we have no chance.

But its how we have to play to get anything from games until we get more technically gifted players.

Dyche didn’t fail to change the system. He succeeded. Burnley played probably our best and most successful brand of football in recent times in the 4-3-3 we operated with up until Brady’s injury in 17/18. Once we lost Defour and Brady to injury, the change to 4-4-2 had to be done.

We could have moved back to it last year but the summer transfer window didn’t deliver the players we needed to do so. Whether Dyche never intended to sign a creative centre mid or whether we simply failed to do so, I can’t claim to know.

ClaretAndJew wrote:Try the line up for the last game of the season with the same players and you can almost bet your house that's what we'll start with against Southampton

You've just lost your house.

Rodders and Guddy will start.

Bin Ont Turf wrote:You've just lost your house.

Rodders and Guddy will start.

JBG for sure, but who’s Jay Rod starting over and why?

Woonderbah wrote:I'd like to see that.
Dwight Gayle seemed to thrive last season paired up with Jay.
Vydra's a similar type of player to Gayle.
Could work.

Pace is what you need in prem

Wood and barnes havent any

SGr wrote:JBG for sure, but who’s Jay Rod starting over and why?

Wood most likely, because he's a better footballer and has the movement and guile that is the perfect for our top goalscorer last season.

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Wood most likely, because he's a better footballer and has the movement and guile that is the perfect for our top goalscorer last season.

I’m afraid I must disagree. Chris Wood is Burnley’s best striker.

vs Top 6 teams away - 442

Pope
Lowton Tarkowski Mee Taylor
Gudmundsson NEW Westwood McNeil
Wood Barnes

vs Top 6 teams home - 4132

Pope
Lowton Tarkowski Mee Taylor
Westwood
Gudmundsson NEW McNeil
Jay Vydra


vs non Top 6 teams away - 442

Pope
Lowton Tarokwski Mee Taylor
Gudmundsson NEW Westwood McNeil
Jay Barnes


v non-Top 6 teams home - 433

Pope
Lowton Tarkowski Mee Taylor
Gudmundsson NEW Westwood
Jay McNeil
Vydra


59 points!

HiroshimaClaret wrote:vs Top 6 teams away - 442

Pope
Lowton Tarkowski Mee Taylor
Gudmundsson NEW Westwood McNeil
Wood Barnes

vs Top 6 teams home - 4132

Pope
Lowton Tarkowski Mee Taylor
Westwood
Gudmundsson NEW McNeil
Jay Vydra


vs non Top 6 teams away - 442

Pope
Lowton Tarokwski Mee Taylor
Gudmundsson NEW Westwood McNeil
Jay Barnes


v non-Top 6 teams home - 433

Pope
Lowton Tarkowski Mee Taylor
Gudmundsson NEW Westwood
Jay McNeil
Vydra


59 points!

Impressive how you’ve managed to include the player who has the best goal-game rate for us in the Premier League in just one of these sides.

I find it mental how badly Chris Wood has been underrated at least relatively by our fans since he signed.

SGr wrote:Dyche didn’t fail to change the system. He succeeded. Burnley played probably our best and most successful brand of football in recent times in the 4-3-3 we operated with up until Brady’s injury in 17/18. Once we lost Defour and Brady to injury, the change to 4-4-2 had to be done.

We could have moved back to it last year but the summer transfer window didn’t deliver the players we needed to do so. Whether Dyche never intended to sign a creative centre mid or whether we simply failed to do so, I can’t claim to know.

Last season it failed, I'd say its more relevant looking at more recent times than most successful times. We tried to play better football and ended up having to revert back to basics.
Also it wasn't a 4-3-3 at all but more a 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1..if you count Hendrick as attacking.

Might be different with a fit Defour.

won't matter what the issues are we will play 4-4-2 regardless with pretty much the same team every week, we must be the easiest team to scout in the world of football - makes our results even more impressive tbh

Vegas Claret wrote:won't matter what the issues are we will play 4-4-2 regardless with pretty much the same team every week, we must be the easiest team to scout in the world of football - makes our results even more impressive tbh

That is mainly because the same players in the same formation play in several different ways. It isn't a case of seeing the line up and saying that is how we will play. We press differently during games, we play different sorts of passes forward to the strikers (which can be long, direct or through the gaps for our not very quick but very mobile strikers!), our wingers can be pushed forward or required to do a solid defensive effort, our forwards can have one or t'other dropped deep or one pressing the centre defender and one running across the defensive line, our 2 central midfielders can both sit deep trying to break up the play in front of our back 4 or can effectively become part of a back 5 or 6 or even both press up to support the attackers.

superdimitri wrote:Last season it failed

Yes, because of the summer that preceded it. It didn’t have to, we just simply ended up lacking the required players.

Mate this is a politics forum, please clearly mark your posts as off-topic in the future.

SGr wrote:Dyche didn’t fail to change the system. He succeeded. Burnley played probably our best and most successful brand of football in recent times in the 4-3-3 we operated with up until Brady’s injury in 17/18. Once we lost Defour and Brady to injury, the change to 4-4-2 had to be done.

We could have moved back to it last year but the summer transfer window didn’t deliver the players we needed to do so. Whether Dyche never intended to sign a creative centre mid or whether we simply failed to do so, I can’t claim to know.

Hoorah! Someone gets it.

SGr wrote:Impressive how you’ve managed to include the player who has the best goal-game rate for us in the Premier League in just one of these sides.

Glad you`re impressed

SGr wrote:Impressive how you’ve managed to include the player who has the best goal-game rate for us in the Premier League in just one of these sides.

Can you state categorically, as it is the upcoming season, that in my hypothetical teams, the selected strikers would not have better goals per minutes played (or goal-game rate as you state) ratios than Wood?

Up to now most expect Pope will start in goal, Heaton a distant second, no mention of Hart. In one article I read, Dyche has hinted he’s decided who will start in goal. Considering Hart has most minutes in pre season games, and Dyche has been ‘bigging’ Hart up, the cats would firmly be among the pigeons if Hart were to start the season in goal. Or, maybe Dyche is putting Hart in the shop window for a move.

Food for thought?

SGr wrote:I’m afraid I must disagree. Chris Wood is Burnley’s best striker.

You could be right.

exilecanada wrote:Up to now most expect Pope will start in goal, Heaton a distant second, no mention of Hart. In one article I read, Dyche has hinted he’s decided who will start in goal. Considering Hart has most minutes in pre season games, and Dyche has been ‘bigging’ Hart up, the cats would firmly be among the pigeons if Hart were to start the season in goal. Or, maybe Dyche is putting Hart in the shop window for a move.

We have to get Heaton's signature with Pope not getting pre-season minutes. Heaton played the 90 v Wigan and started today, the lads will be getting used to him being there, team captain etc.
Will be madness to repeat the mistake of last season and start with Hart between the sticks having let a popular player go.

theroyaldyche wrote:Pace is what you need in prem

Wood and barnes havent any

Yet they still score double figures...

More than can be said about the likes of Gayle who's got pace to burn.
Most goals in a PL season for Gayle is 7 in 23 games...

I'd rather keep the immobile Wood and Barnes.

SGr wrote:Yes, because of the summer that preceded it. It didn’t have to, we just simply ended up lacking the required players.

I guess we will see but each game I've been too we have played noticeably better as 4-4-2.

I'd like us to be more expansive and play a different system, just don't believe Dyche will.

Premier league opener.
Hart
Lowton, Tarkowski, Mee, Taylor
JBG, Westwood, Hendrick or Cork, McNeil
Barnes, Wood

League / FA cup opener.
Pope
Bardsley, Long, Gibson, Pieters
Lennon, Westwood, Hendrick or Cork, Brady
Vyagra, JayRod

A sixth place finish and two cup finals, get in!