Heats

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# 1
Selby Claret
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Re: Heats

Postby Selby Claret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:36 am

Most people should remember Danny Ings' performances after his head was turned

The last thing I want is a keeper - regardless of status / history / abilities - staring wistfully into the distance as he runs downs his final year

Too important a position to have someone not 100% committed - I'm not suggesting that would be our Tom - but its still a risk

Hart has now had a full year and pre-season with Billy (in whom I trust) and - like previous posters say - if Pope's injury was anything more than a knock (did I read he's turned an ankle?) - then we wouldn't be entertaining this

Its not always about money - we have to remember that he has watched a colleague rise to the ranks of the World Cup squad - and who has signed a long term deal at the club. Maybe he just wants to play football and thinks his days between the sticks at Burnley are numbered - he did, after all, spend nearly a year behind Pope and Hart once injury free

If someone offered me more money, long(er) term job security and a good chance of playing every week, I think I'd take it
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# 2
Rick_Muller
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Re: Heats

Postby Rick_Muller » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:36 am

ClaretTony wrote:How do you stop it getting to this? It's been clear for some time that he didn't want to sign a new contract and you can't force him to. We could keep him for a further year, potentially against his wishes, or sell him. Not sure what the club can do here.

You've said it there CT - we keep him for another year, potentially against his wishes

I've said it before, Heaton should start the season as No 1, with Pope No 2 and Hart should be going. Pope is the future but should wait his turn, Heaton could go next season on a free. If Heaton doesn't like that, then as he's contracted to the club he can go at the end of the season for free and spend all season in the wilderness on gardening leave away from the first team squad with no chance of England call up. If he was faced with that option - he's not stupid enough to rock the boat.

For far to long the tail has wagged the dog in football, I would be making a stand.
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# 3
South West Claret.
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Re: Heats

Postby South West Claret. » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:36 am

alwaysaclaret wrote:Simply offer him the length of contract that villa are doing, I'm guessing they are offering 3 as opposed to our 2 years, Tom is a proven keeper and a very important member of the team, as was said earlier in the thread he is what binds the defence together and they are confident with him behind them, he's a very vocal captain that we should be keeping at all costs, he has at least 2 years in him, and would be a very able back up in he's 3rd year, massive mistake in my opinion. Yes pope is a great replacement but we're in exactly same position as last year, he's injured, so it wouldn't surprise me to be starting with Hart, massive mistake!!


Well put AaC I totally agree.

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Tall Paul
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Re: Heats

Postby Tall Paul » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:36 am

Reecey1987 wrote:Matter of opinion


Of course it is.

And the opinion of most of his managers in the last three seasons or so is that he's not good enough to play for them. It looks like nobody wants him now either or he'd surely be gone by now.

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Re: Heats

Postby Oshkoshclaret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:37 am

Dreadful news and terrible business.

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Rick_Muller
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Re: Heats

Postby Rick_Muller » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:38 am

Selby Claret wrote:Most people should remember Danny Ings' performances after his head was turned

The last thing I want is a keeper - regardless of status / history / abilities - staring wistfully into the distance as he runs downs his final year

Too important a position to have someone not 100% committed - I'm not suggesting that would be our Tom - but its still a risk

Hart has now had a full year and pre-season with Billy (in whom I trust) and - like previous posters say - if Pope's injury was anything more than a knock (did I read he's turned an ankle?) - then we wouldn't be entertaining this

Its not always about money - we have to remember that he has watched a colleague rise to the ranks of the World Cup squad - and who has signed a long term deal at the club. Maybe he just wants to play football and thinks his days between the sticks at Burnley are numbered - he did, after all, spend nearly a year behind Pope and Hart once injury free

If someone offered me more money, long(er) term job security and a good chance of playing every week, I think I'd take it


thats a fair assessment Selby, I still think it would be wrong to let him go to Villa though as he will gain them points.

# 7
Dougall
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Re: Heats

Postby Dougall » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:38 am

ClaretTony wrote:That is exactly how it doesn't work

It appears that many on here would disagree though, Tony ! :D

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Chuckypad
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Re: Heats

Postby Chuckypad » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:40 am

ClaretTony wrote:None whatsoever, but it's become clear recently through media speculation that he wasn't signing a new deal although Nixon hinted around a week ago that he might do.


Fair enough - Like I said earlier, I would have pushed the boat out to keep him here. Highest earner with a decent duration

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ewanrob
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Re: Heats

Postby ewanrob » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:40 am

I can only assume that Tom made his decision last year, not starting against Southampton hit him hard I believe. Then to be brought back in when it's all going wrong, you can kind of see why hes said...so much for loyalty...I'm off.

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Quicknick
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Re: Heats

Postby Quicknick » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:40 am

fatboy47 wrote:They may well have needed to sign a keeper...belt and braces etc....

But Hart ?...a big time keeper ..on massive money...all we needed was a few games cover

a big error of judgement , and Hart was always going to be an absolute white elephant...


White elephant? Hart was top of the ratings in the first half of the season.

# 11
Turftalkers mentor
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Re: Heats

Postby Turftalkers mentor » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:40 am

Without doubt if its only contract length that's the problem , then letting Tom leave is a monumental mistake

# 12
Devils_Advocate
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Re: Heats

Postby Devils_Advocate » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:40 am

Tall Paul wrote:I can and I did.

He used to be good, but he's been shite for years now.

Shite for years? You seemed to think he was a good player and a good signing only a year ago

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Bertiebeehead
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Re: Heats

Postby Bertiebeehead » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:42 am

If we sign no one else and start with Hart in goal I will literally **** my pants in rage.

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karatekid
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Re: Heats

Postby karatekid » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:42 am

Aston Villa are a bigger club than Burnley and will pay bigger wages. They are spending big and will have a great chance of being successful in the EPL. Maybe TH thinks that the move will also enhance his chances of getting back in the the England team for next years Euros.
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deanothedino
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Re: Heats

Postby deanothedino » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:43 am

Tall Paul wrote:It was slightly tongue in cheek, but we could have gone with Lindegaard for a bit or signed a keeper that isn't shite.

I'll didn't understand the signing at the time and I still don't.

You say for a bit but Heaton could have had a reoccurence (remember Charlie Austin just has to think of falling over for his shoulder to dislocate) and we could have been with Lindegaard for half a season.

Clearly most didn't think Hart was shite when he was cleaning up in the potm votes on here.
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Murger
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Re: Heats

Postby Murger » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:43 am

If he didn't want to be here, why has he playing in the friendlies?
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wilks_bfc
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Re: Heats

Postby wilks_bfc » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:44 am

Be absolutely gutting to lose Tom, but to sell him to a club that could be a relegation rival is even more so.

If we’d have known last night would have been his last game for us, would the attendance have been more or less?

# 18
karatekid
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Re: Heats

Postby karatekid » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:44 am

He is still being paid to work so he couldn't refuse to play.
Last edited by karatekid on Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

# 19
Tall Paul
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Re: Heats

Postby Tall Paul » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:45 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:Shite for years? You seemed to think he was a good player and a good signing only a year ago


Maybe I've changed my mind, it's allowed.

Pretty sure I said at the time that I didn't understand why we were signing him.

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ClaretTony
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Re: Heats

Postby ClaretTony » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:46 am

Chuckypad wrote:Fair enough - Like I said earlier, I would have pushed the boat out to keep him here. Highest earner with a decent duration


How do you know we haven't? Maybe we have pushed that boat out and maybe he's just decided it's time he wants to move on.

On a personal note, I don't want Tom Heaton to go. I actually think he's our best goalkeeper by some distance, but he deserves some respect and if he's decided he wants to move on then I think we should give him that respect.

I still hope it is not happening though.
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Firthy
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Re: Heats

Postby Firthy » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:46 am

Unless Pope is 110% fit then this would be madness and £10m a joke. You only have to look at the difference last season when Heaton replaced Hart. We can't afford another season with a first half like last year, we might not recover and we'll lose far more than £10m if that happens.

And that's without taking into considerartion what Heaton would give a possible relegation rival (and that's more than possible if Hart is in goal for us)

The club has to come first and if making Heaton see out his contract is best for the club then that's what we should do.
Last edited by Firthy on Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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# 22
Devils_Advocate
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Re: Heats

Postby Devils_Advocate » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:49 am

Hart should be fine as back up. Before Dyche trusted a young Pope we had Paul Robinson playing as our backup keeper and Hart is miles better today then he was then.

Also if Hart is happy as backup (big if) I think it will be brilliant for Pope to have someone with so much experience working with him day to day
Last edited by Devils_Advocate on Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

# 23
deanothedino
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Re: Heats

Postby deanothedino » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:51 am

Murger wrote:If he didn't want to be here, why has he playing in the friendlies?

Because he is a professional and was picked to play.

# 24
summitclaret
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Re: Heats

Postby summitclaret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:52 am

I want Tom to stay, but given our strength in goal and our glaring gap in cm, we should be far more concerned about the latter in terms of staying up.

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IanMcL
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Re: Heats

Postby IanMcL » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:52 am

Great shame but somehow inevitable.

Huge thank you and my very best wishes for a great season, other than the 10 you let in against the Clarets!

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joey13
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Re: Heats

Postby joey13 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:54 am

ClaretTony wrote:How do you stop it getting to this? It's been clear for some time that he didn't want to sign a new contract and you can't force him to. We could keep him for a further year, potentially against his wishes, or sell him. Not sure what the club can do here.

It’s so disappointing and possibly season defining

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Selby Claret
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Re: Heats

Postby Selby Claret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:59 am

Pope
Fulham 45 mins - 0
Crewe 90 mins - 1
Average 0.66 goals per game

Hart
Fulham 45 mins - 0
Port Vale 45 mins - 0
Fleetwood 90 mins - 0
Nice 45 mins - 1
Average 0.4 goals per game

Heaton
Port Vale 45 mins - 1
Wigan 90 mins - 2
Nice 45 mins - 0
Average 1.5 goals per game

Just saying........(tin hat chin strap tied) ;)
Last edited by Selby Claret on Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

# 28
tiger76
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Re: Heats

Postby tiger76 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:59 am

KRBFC wrote:Where is the money going? The Vokes sale covered Rodriguez. So we’ve spent less than 2 million this window. We keep getting these yearly cash windfalls, yet seemingly need to sell before buying. How? Are we gonna invest any of this money into the first 11 to help Dyche?



I seriously hope the money from the sale of Heats is going towards obtaining a top quality CM,if not then questions have to be asked,

It maybe that Tom wanted to move,which if true leaves the club with little option but to sell.

Hart starting the season worries me,it's vital we have a strong first half of the season,if we're in the bottom 3 at Xmas again,i don't think we'll have another 8 match unbeaten run.

The bigger danger is Dyche becomes frustrated at having one hand tied behind his back,he's a good manager,but he needs the tools to ensure we can be competitive in this league.

# 29
tarkys_ears
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Re: Heats

Postby tarkys_ears » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:59 am

Villa showing their intent...

Us showing ours...

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ClaretTony
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Re: Heats

Postby ClaretTony » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:01 am

Firthy wrote:The club has to come first and if making Heaton see out his contract is best for the club then that's what we should do.


And if this is happening then it seems those involved at the club, and that includes the manager, doesn't think it is best for the club.

# 31
Firthy
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Re: Heats

Postby Firthy » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:03 am

tarkys_ears wrote:Villa showing their intent...

Us showing ours...


Or lack of it.

# 32
tarkys_ears
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Re: Heats

Postby tarkys_ears » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:03 am

Villa showing how they conduct business...

Us showing how we conduct ours....

# 33
Tinribs
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Re: Heats

Postby Tinribs » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:03 am

Good business £8 million for a 33 yr old who won’t commit to a new contract.
Rather him go than Pope,Hart always going to be back up to either of them.
More than happy with Hart to deputise while pope gets fit.
He had a rough ride last year because as a team we were awful before Christmas and offered no protection at all.

# 34
beddie
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Re: Heats

Postby beddie » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:03 am

To be honest if he wants to go then the quicker we can get this done with Villa the better,it's a disruption that SD could do without.

# 35
WestMidsClaret
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Re: Heats

Postby WestMidsClaret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:05 am

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... eaton/amp/

Inevitable it looks like. Crap fee for us though IMO.
Last edited by WestMidsClaret on Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ClaretTony
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Re: Heats

Postby ClaretTony » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:05 am

Selby Claret wrote:Pope
Fulham 45 mins - 0
Crewe 90 mins - 1
Average 0.66 goals per game

Hart
Fulham 45 mins - 0
Port Vale 45 mins - 0
Fleetwood 90 mins - 0
Nice 45 mins - 1
Average 0.4 goals per game

Heaton
Port Vale 45 mins - 1
Wigan 90 mins - 2
Nice 45 mins - 0
Average 1.5 goals per game

Just saying........(tin hat chin strap tied) ;)


If we are going down that route

Accrington

Pope
Accrington 45 mins - 0

Tranmere
Hart 34 mins- 1
Heaton 45 mins - 2

# 37
Dyched
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Re: Heats

Postby Dyched » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:05 am

I’d like to understand way he’s been given so many pre season minutes knowing he’ll be leaving. Especially given the start we made with that clown in goal last season. You’d have thought Dyche would want Hart to learn what his job is. Oh well.

# 38
MACCA
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Re: Heats

Postby MACCA » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:07 am

Turftalkers mentor wrote:Without doubt if its only contract length that's the problem , then letting Tom leave is a monumental mistake


And maybe not the fact he wants 40-50k per week like Pope and Hart?

Its ok saying give him what he wants, but if that's 50k a week for 3 years its impossible finances for us. We can't carry 3 keepers in them terms.

Let's not forget he wont be as financially stable due to how, where and when both Tom and the club were when he signed.

He'd be foolish to turn down upto 50k a week for 3 years and a juicy signing on fee, itd probably be more than what hes earned combined in his career to date...

Dont just think about the club in this scenario, think about Tom too.

( not just aimed at you, but to the thread as a whole, just put it all on 1 post )

# 39
Tricky Trevor
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Re: Heats

Postby Tricky Trevor » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:11 am

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:Suicidal decision to let Heaton leave...If he won’t sign a new deal we make him stay this season until the end of the season...8 million is small change in comparison to the Premier League annual windfall...Deja Vu starting all over again...Joe Hart makes a few good saves but can’t get down to low shots and can’t collect crosses into the box because he is rooted to his line...Burnley bottom of the league...Suicide

Don’t lose your white stick and give your dog a biscuit at the mouth end. Compared to Nick Pope Tom is rooted to his line and Hart made some excellent saves low down. That’s why he won so many MoMs before the naysayers on here got into him. Hart has had 12 months working under Billy Mercer and has seen how our system works, he’ll be fine.

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Paddy1882
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Re: Heats

Postby Paddy1882 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:13 am

cried it in all summer how difficult it is in the market and then let a relegation rival so easily take your best keeper (IMO) and club captain away from you 10 days before the new season!!! Bonkers!! Not to mention any players we want to bring in now the clubs know we are richer in money terms and the agents know we’ve lost one of our top earners so can offer more wages to their client.... shot ourselves in the foot with this one!

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Re: Heats

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:13 am

Tricky Trevor wrote:Don’t lose your white stick and give your dog a biscuit at the mouth end. Compared to Nick Pope Tom is rooted to his line and Hart made some excellent saves low down. That’s why he won so many MoMs before the naysayers on here got into him. Hart has had 12 months working under Billy Mercer and has seen how our system works, he’ll be fine.


Yep as up to Boxing Day showed we’ll be fine with Hart in goal!!

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Re: Heats

Postby jedi_master » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:17 am

if Pope is even 75% fit, I would play him against Southampton, regardless of his non appearance in the majority of friendlies.

The defence needs that presence and someone claiming the high balls to get over Tom having left.

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tybfc
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Re: Heats

Postby tybfc » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:25 am

I can understand why people become depressed .

The thought of Hart in the nets again at the start of the season is enough to send anybody searching for the paracetamol bottle.
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KRBFC
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Re: Heats

Postby KRBFC » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:27 am

We keep saying we don’t need to sell but given our business (or lack of) It does appear the budget just isn’t available to Dyche without selling players first. Heaton gone, I expect Tark will follow if any interest is shown.

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Tall Paul
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Re: Heats

Postby Tall Paul » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:28 am

MACCA wrote:And maybe not the fact he wants 40-50k per week like Pope and Hart?

Its ok saying give him what he wants, but if that's 50k a week for 3 years its impossible finances for us. We can't carry 3 keepers in them terms.


Another reason why the signing of Hart was baffling.

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Wembley09
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Re: Heats

Postby Wembley09 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:29 am

Has he already gone? Just saw this on Sky Sports transfer center.

"The 33-year old England international, who was in the last year of his contract at Turf Moor, becomes Villa’s 12th signing of the summer.
Heaton started Burnley’s last two pre-season friendlies against Wigan and last night’s 6-1 win over Nice. He’s expected to travel to the Midlands today ahead of a medical."

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martin_p
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Re: Heats

Postby martin_p » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:35 am

Be sad to see him go, but players come and players go and life continues.

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Giftonsnoidea
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Re: Heats

Postby Giftonsnoidea » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:37 am

Absolute stupidity to sell after the start we had last year

# 49
KlyBfc
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Re: Heats

Postby KlyBfc » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:38 am

TH wants to play regular football (listen to the goalkeepers union podcast interview if you get chance) it’s his driving force. He doesn’t see any guarantees anymore at Burnley and at this stage of his career he wants to go and keep playing. He also didn’t want to stay to fight with Pope last summer or then with Hart and leading up to the January transfer window there was lots of talk of a move until getting back in the side. Also Our sides/managers mantra is built on competition, hunger and fight if he isn’t committing to that then it’s time for to him go, with a huge thanks.

To me keeping him against his wishes weakens what makes us strong (team unity etc). He was no doubt an excellent captain and leader on the pitch and off it when he was in the side. However you could question (rightly or wrongly) his leadership as club captain prior to Christmas and the form we were in especially when you look at the change in dime players as soon as he got back in.

Do we need that presence around for 12 months just to stop him joining Villa???

I’m a fan, I think he’d better than Hart and I’d love him to sign a new deal and stay but if he doesn’t want to then it’s right to sell and that’s for both us and for him
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Re: Heats

Postby LoveCurryPies » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:40 am

Should we be looking to sign Jack Butland or another young keeper?

£9million from Heaton sale and £500 from Hart sale, plus the £25million in the bank....we should have the necessary funds.


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