Heats

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Darnhill Claret
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Re: Heats

Post by Darnhill Claret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:58 am

So the second half of the season was all down to Tom replacing Joe was it? Nothing to do with Bardsley leading by example and getting stuck in. Nothing to do with the continued improvement by Charlie Taylor. Nothing to do with Westwood’s contribution in midfield. Nothing to do with the front two partnership of Wood and Barnes and nothing at all to do with the performances of Dwight McNeill.
Ok, i’ll try and remember that.
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Papabendi
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Re: Heats

Post by Papabendi » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:05 pm

would we be happier sacking Pope off?

RalphCoatesComb
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Re: Heats

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:05 pm

WHY OH WHY???

NOT HAPPY!!!

Leisure
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Re: Heats

Post by Leisure » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:06 pm

Six fingers wrote:The player that keeps us in the league gets sold great news
Keeps us in the league! Don't talk utter rubbish.

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Re: Heats

Post by ewanrob » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:07 pm

Tom, was barking at the defence all thru the 1st half last night...when they hardly had anything to defend. You really cannot afford to lose such a pivotal player like that, I'm sorry...but a massive blunder by Sean and the board.
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Re: Heats

Post by Rick_Muller » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:08 pm

Leisure wrote:Keeps us in the league! Don't talk utter rubbish.
it's all about opinions mate, and I'm afraid yours is wrong...

;)

BurnleyFC
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Re: Heats

Post by BurnleyFC » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:11 pm

Calm down lads, I've just seen Chrissy Pearce dancing away down Gawthorpe.

Firthy
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Re: Heats

Post by Firthy » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:11 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:Like it or not the introduction of Heaton stopped what was a terminal situation, been done to death on here
Which is why selling Heaton to a rival and keeping Hart is mind boggling especially if Pope isn't 100% fit :shock: :cry:
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Re: Heats

Post by RingoMcCartney » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:11 pm

Should've been Hart.

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Re: Heats

Post by Sausage » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:12 pm

I can't understand why anyone would blame Sean Dyche or the board for this. If you have a player in the last year of his contract who a) won't sign a new contract; and b) wants away, the only thing you can do is sell them for as much as you can. Heats departs with my best wishes for giving us six years of incredible goalkeeping.

No one is irreplaceable. Not even Tom Heaton.
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Swizzlestick
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Re: Heats

Post by Swizzlestick » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:14 pm

CombatClaret wrote:More baffling would have been starting last season with only one fit 3rd choice keeper (Lindegaard)
Heaton was on the bench for the first game of last season so he can’t have been that unfit.

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Re: Heats

Post by The Enclosure » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:15 pm

They could have made Tom an offer he couldnt refuse.Financially I mean.
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JaLL193
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Re: Heats

Post by JaLL193 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:22 pm

:( :( :( :( :(

Erasmus
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Re: Heats

Post by Erasmus » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:22 pm

Tom Heaton is coming to that age when players start to look around for a final contract and it seems likely that he would be offered a substantial wage increase by Villa that we can't match, for various reasons. So much of our success has been based on the mutual respect of club and players and we are maintaining that ethos by not forcing Heaton to miss out on a contract that would probably set him up for life.

Given the service he has given the club, it would be completely against the way we operate to force him to stay. And of course we also have Nick Pope here who showed himself to be an excellent replacement, almost as good as Heaton, in the season before last. All in all it is the right thing to do.

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Re: Heats

Post by BOYSIE31 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:26 pm

Looks like Peacock Farrell according to Nixon - getting serious now
Any good as heard he was poor from Leeds fans

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Re: Heats

Post by jedi_master » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:28 pm

Why are we so quick to be able to get a third choice goalkeeper in as seemingly a priority with Heaton going, but struggle so hard to get a legitimate challenger in central midfield?
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Firthy
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Re: Heats

Post by Firthy » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:28 pm

The Enclosure wrote:They could have made Tom an offer he couldnt refuse.Financially I mean.
Doesn't matter, he is still under contract for 12 months and with Pope not fit then Heaton starts and keeps his place and we sell at the end of the season. We don't need to sell so why take such a gamble with possibly our Premier League future :o :shock: :x

MACCA
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Re: Heats

Post by MACCA » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:28 pm

The Enclosure wrote:They could have made Tom an offer he couldnt refuse.Financially I mean.
Then the next players demands the same, then what?

Some people seem to be forgetting the club HAVE offered Tom a deal that the club feel is fair and fits into our structure.
Tim hasn't/ doesn't want to sign.
It's a simple as us now trying to get the best deal possible.

By letting him "rot in the reserves' or "dont sell to a rival at any price" means not only will we have an unhappy player on our hands, but we will be doing ourselves out if upto 12m ( wages saved included )

Our total income was 10m for the whole season not so long ago, 12m into the coffees now, could be the bit of extra finance needed to get in 1 or 2 needed/quality players.

rob63
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Re: Heats

Post by rob63 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:29 pm

Tall Paul wrote:It was slightly tongue in cheek, but we could have gone with Lindegaard for a bit or signed a keeper that isn't shite.

I'll didn't understand the signing at the time and I still don't.
Lindegard had a thigh strain at the time too, so it was Ledzgins or a youngster

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Re: Heats

Post by dougcollins » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:30 pm

Gone for £8m according to BBC.

Sausage
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Re: Heats

Post by Sausage » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:31 pm

Firthy wrote:Doesn't matter, he is still under contract for 12 months and with Pope not fit then Heaton starts and keeps his place and we sell at the end of the season. We don't need to sell so why take such a gamble with possibly our Premier League future :o :shock: :x
At the end of this season he leaves for nothing. Zero. Zilch.

Blackrod
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Re: Heats

Post by Blackrod » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:33 pm

Hopefully Garlick can now untie the purse strings so we can buy a quality midfielder. There’s a week to go.
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claretcarrot93
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Re: Heats

Post by claretcarrot93 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:34 pm

Sausage wrote:At the end of this season he leaves for nothing. Zero. Zilch.
But he could keep Villa up at our expense. So that zilch could have been worth 180 million. If he was going abroad or to a top 10 team, fair enough. Madness to strengthen a relegation rival for the sake of 8 million.
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Re: Heats

Post by Hibsclaret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:36 pm

Tom and Nick are both keepers that make minimal mistakes. Tom has been brilliant for us but, as others have said, when Nick signed the new deal the writing was on the wall.

2017/18 season was the perfect storm that got us to 7th but can anyone actually remember one mistake that Nick made that season. I would suggest the nearest thing to a mistake was the goal at Leicester which is arguable. You could say that Tom made more errors in one game, at Liverpool last season, than Nick made in a full season.

Unfortunately this has to happen and if Nick plays like 2017/18 we will be more than fine.

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Re: Heats

Post by Sausage » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:36 pm

claretcarrot93 wrote:But he could keep Villa up at our expense. So that zilch could have been worth 180 million. If he was going abroad or to a top 10 team, fair enough. Madness to strengthen a relegation rival for the sake of 8 million.
Except that Tom Heaton no longer wants to play for Burnley. If you insist he stays put, his head will be scrambled and he'll be a shambles on the pitch. A wantaway player should be nowhere near the first team.
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Re: Heats

Post by NickBFC » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:37 pm

I do feel a slight tinge of sadness, but we have to back the manager. If Heaton wants to go then there isn't a lot the club can do about it. All very well giving him a bumper pay rise, but others would follow suit. At his age and with 12 months left on his deal then £8m or whatever it is seems good value for us. Pope is clearly ready to start when he's fit and despite what a lot say on here, Joe Hart is no mug and whilst wearing a Burnley shirt should be supported by the fans. It's a chance for the club to look for a young, up and coming keeper IMO. I'm more disappointed about losing a good captain rather than the player.

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Re: Heats

Post by jrgbfc » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:37 pm

FactualFrank wrote:To be fair though, this has been discussed umpteen times, and the consensus with quite a few posters was that due to his poor organising of the defence, that caused him to face more shots. I'd like to see the stats though on shots faced with Heaton vs Hart.
I get that, but I don't really buy that argument tbh. We're talking about experienced, top flight defenders, not kids who are playing in their first under 10s match.

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Re: Heats

Post by claretcarrot93 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:37 pm

Sausage wrote:Except that Tom Heaton no longer wants to play for Burnley. If you insist he stays put, his head will be scrambled and he'll be a shambles on the pitch. A wantaway player should be nowhere near the first team.
But it still strengthens Villa. He is better off on our bench than that

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Re: Heats

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:39 pm

So Villa having already spent well over 100m are now going to be safe due to signing a goalkeeper ?

The board are probably regretting signing the other 11

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Re: Heats

Post by Rick_Muller » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:39 pm

Sausage wrote:At the end of this season he leaves for nothing. Zero. Zilch.
also at the end of the season we could be in a relegation scrap with Villa and they pick up points because they have Heaton and we dont - we go down and lose £120M - false economy using that as an argument
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Re: Heats

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:39 pm

Thanks for the last 5 or 6 years Tom. Great goalkeeper and club captain.
If he wants to leave for first team football then I'm glad the club have let him, he deserves it.

The fee is decent as we would go mad spending that much on a player of his age.

By the end of the season I was ready for Pope to come back in. Tom was doing alright but he never got to the heights Pope did for us.

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Re: Heats

Post by JohnDearyMe » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:41 pm

There's an awful lot riding on Pope's fitness for us now.

If we end up with Hart in goal we will be in big trouble. He is a keeper whose career is in terminal decline.
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Re: Heats

Post by jedi_master » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:42 pm

Blackrod wrote:Hopefully Garlick can now untie the purse strings so we can buy a quality midfielder. There’s a week to go.
That should be happening regardless with our lack of spending, TV Money, Vokes fee and the comparatively tiny spend by us this summer.

It should not be reliant on a sale.
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rob63
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Re: Heats

Post by rob63 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:43 pm

Selby Claret wrote:Pope
Fulham 45 mins - 0
Crewe 90 mins - 1
Average 0.66 goals per game

Hart
Fulham 45 mins - 0
Port Vale 45 mins - 0
Fleetwood 90 mins - 0
Nice 45 mins - 1
Average 0.4 goals per game

Heaton
Port Vale 45 mins - 1
Wigan 90 mins - 2
Nice 45 mins - 0
Average 1.5 goals per game

Just saying........(tin hat chin strap tied) ;)
You're a braver man than me! :lol: :lol:

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Re: Heats

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:44 pm

rob63 wrote:Lindegard had a thigh strain at the time too, so it was Ledzgins or a youngster
Then we could and should have gone with one of those options, or a loan.

It's all a bit captain hindsight, but it was a short term problem that required a short term solution. Signing Hart solved the short term problem, but created a long term one and this is the result of that.

I don't think SD and the board make many mistakes, but signing Hart was a big one imo.
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Re: Heats

Post by AndyClaret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:44 pm

Peacock Farrell is on according to nixon

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Re: Heats

Post by Sausage » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:46 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:also at the end of the season we could be in a relegation scrap with Villa and they pick up points because they have Heaton and we dont - we go down and lose £120M - false economy using that as an argument
There's a lot of crystal ball gazing going on here. It's equally possible that we could get relegated with Tom Heaton between the sticks - it happened in 2015 - and he leaves next summer for nothing.

If we insist that contracted players see out the last year of their contract we will ruin the ethos of the club. We sign players, hopefully improve them, and do not stand in their way when they want to move on. If we lose that ethos, we'll find it even harder to sign young talented players in future.
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Re: Heats

Post by AlargeClaret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:46 pm

It’s just what happens with keepers , look at Real Madrid bringing in Courtois for the brilliant Navas , simply as Navas is 32 a new No1 needs to be brought through , not unlike they did with the great Casilias. People getting all misty eyed over TH is ridiculous , he’s doing what’s best for his future as he approaches the final phase of his career .

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Re: Heats

Post by Firthy » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:46 pm

claretcarrot93 wrote:But he could keep Villa up at our expense. So that zilch could have been worth 180 million. If he was going abroad or to a top 10 team, fair enough. Madness to strengthen a relegation rival for the sake of 8 million.
Pretty much my point in a nutshell ;)
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The Enclosure
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Re: Heats

Post by The Enclosure » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:46 pm

Firthy wrote:Doesn't matter, he is still under contract for 12 months and with Pope not fit then Heaton starts and keeps his place and we sell at the end of the season. We don't need to sell so why take such a gamble with possibly our Premier League future :o :shock: :x
Think you misunderstood Firthy...I meant Burnley could have made him an offer he couldnt refuse to keep him.

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Re: Heats

Post by buzzclarets79 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:48 pm

5 or 6 years ago the board were getting pelters for signing a keeper on a free from a bottom half championship club that had conceded a hat full of goals.
That same player after a fantastic career at Burnley is now going to bring in around 10m to the club.
We have two still great keepers in Hart & Pope so the deal simply makes business sense.
Surely this must free up wages for that CM that everyone knows we need

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Re: Heats

Post by Dyched » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:48 pm

MACCA wrote:Then the next players demands the same, then what?

Some people seem to be forgetting the club HAVE offered Tom a deal that the club feel is fair and fits into our structure.
Tim hasn't/ doesn't want to sign.
It's a simple as us now trying to get the best deal possible.

By letting him "rot in the reserves' or "dont sell to a rival at any price" means not only will we have an unhappy player on our hands, but we will be doing ourselves out if upto 12m ( wages saved included )

Our total income was 10m for the whole season not so long ago, 12m into the coffees now, could be the bit of extra finance needed to get in 1 or 2 needed/quality players.
Doesn't work like that.

Fans always use that excuse, "Can't offer him that because x, y and z will want the same. They don't. Footballers aren't idiots. They'll know what Heaton has achieved here, how important he is for not only the team but the club in general. Do you seriously think the likes of say Wells, Vydra, McNeill would be knocking on Seans door asking for the same? Nah doesn't happen. Not here, Man Utd or Barcalona.

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Re: Heats

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:50 pm

Dyched wrote:Doesn't work like that.

Fans always use that excuse, "Can't offer him that because x, y and z will want the same. They don't. Footballers aren't idiots. They'll know what Heaton has achieved here, how important he is for not only the team but the club in general. Do you seriously think the likes of say Wells, Vydra, McNeill would be knocking on Seans door asking for the same? Nah doesn't happen. Not here, Man Utd or Barcalona.
Doesn't it?
I remember Terry or Lampard having a clause in their contracts meaning they were always the highest paid at the club.
Besides, it's the agents who start thinking about the commission they get from new and improved contracts.

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Re: Heats

Post by Firthy » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:50 pm

How can people say he's leaving for first team football. He would have got that here, with Pope's injuey problems he would have started and kept his place for the season IMO. It's purely financial and I can't blame him at his age and nearing the end of his career. I'm not disappointed in Heaton for going but I am disappointed in Burnley for allowing it when, as they claim, we don't need to sell.
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Dyched
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Re: Heats

Post by Dyched » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:54 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Doesn't it?
I remember Terry or Lampard having a clause in their contracts meaning they were always the highest paid at the club.
Besides, it's the agents who start thinking about the commission they get from new and improved contracts.
That's different though.

Had Terry/Lampard signed a contract as the wild spending started a contract which then changed as more and more world class players were signing makes sense.

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Re: Heats

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:55 pm

Dyched wrote:That's different though.

Had Terry/Lampard signed a contract as the wild spending started a contract which then changed as more and more world class players were signing makes sense.
You're saying that players don't want improved contracts if other players are paid a lot more.
If that was the case we'd still be giving the likes of Ben Mee £20k a week.

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Re: Heats

Post by Murger » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:58 pm

Why are we in such a rush to get in a 3rd choice keeper? Any money from Tom NEEDS to go towards another midfielder.
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Re: Heats

Post by tiger76 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:59 pm

MACCA wrote:Then the next players demands the same, then what?

Some people seem to be forgetting the club HAVE offered Tom a deal that the club feel is fair and fits into our structure.
Tim hasn't/ doesn't want to sign.
It's a simple as us now trying to get the best deal possible.

By letting him "rot in the reserves' or "dont sell to a rival at any price" means not only will we have an unhappy player on our hands, but we will be doing ourselves out if upto 12m ( wages saved included )

Our total income was 10m for the whole season not so long ago, 12m into the coffees now, could be the bit of extra finance needed to get in 1 or 2 needed/quality players.
On balance it's fair enough letting Tom go in the circumstances,£8m for a 33 year-old isn't to be sniffed at,i'll judge the board's actions after the window has shut,but if we don't sign at least one high quality CM by next Thursday,it's going to be a Winter of discontent i fear.
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Dyched
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Re: Heats

Post by Dyched » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:59 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:You're saying that players don't want improved contracts if other players are paid a lot more.
If that was the case we'd still be giving the likes of Ben Mee £20k a week.
The money has gone up in football, transfer fees etc, so players want a slice of that and improvement in contracts of course.

But offering the club captain who is a huge part of the club a big wage wouldn't start a chain reaction.

If we offered Wells a massive wage then that would of course.

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Re: Heats

Post by rob63 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:59 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:Looks like Peacock Farrell according to Nixon - getting serious now
Any good as heard he was poor from Leeds fans
He's the Joe Hart of Elland Rd according to which Leeds fan you listen to, apparently!
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