Heats

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Herts Clarets
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Re: Heats

Post by Herts Clarets » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:01 pm

buzzclarets79 wrote: Surely this must free up wages for that CM that everyone knows we need
Everyone it seems apart from the board and management at Burnley Football Club. I mean it's not as if we are going to get caught out by not strengthening the midfield and then suffering injuries when we are unable to sign a player, is it? You know, like when we failed to sign a back up for Marney, who was injured the very next game and led to Arfield trying to fill his position. And we can all remember how that season ended.....

Vino blanco
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Re: Heats

Post by Vino blanco » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:01 pm

A sad day for BFC and its supporters. If Hart starts in goal against Southampton, I will be p!ssed off to say the least.

GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Heats

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:02 pm

Dyched wrote:That's different though.

Had Terry/Lampard signed a contract as the wild spending started a contract which then changed as more and more world class players were signing makes sense.
You're saying that players don't want improved contracts if other players are paid a lot more.
If that was the case we'd still be giving the likes of Ben Mee £20k a week.

PutTheWheelieBinsOut
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Re: Heats

Post by PutTheWheelieBinsOut » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:03 pm

We desperately needed the 8M in the bank guys, whats the fuss, take a look at Bolton.....

PutTheWheelieBinsOut
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Re: Heats

Post by PutTheWheelieBinsOut » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:03 pm

We desperately needed the 8M in the bank guys, whats the fuss, take a look at Bolton.....

Firthy
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Re: Heats

Post by Firthy » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:03 pm

Murger wrote:Why are we in such a rush to get in a 3rd choice keeper? Any money from Tom NEEDS to go towards another midfielder.
This is the only positive to come from this. Hopefully it swells the coffers and frees up wages to allow us to sign one or two quality players.

Tall Paul
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Re: Heats

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:04 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:Looks like Peacock Farrell according to Nixon - getting serious now
Any good as heard he was poor from Leeds fans
A lot younger than Heaton, so bringing the age of the squad down. Isn't that what you keep saying we should be doing?
Murger wrote:Why are we in such a rush to get in a 3rd choice keeper? Any money from Tom NEEDS to go towards another midfielder.
Probably because our first choice is injured and second choice is shite.

Iloveyoubrady
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Re: Heats

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:04 pm

rob63 wrote:He's the Joe Hart of Elland Rd according to which Leeds fan you listen to, apparently!
Rubbish apparently

FactualFrank
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Re: Heats

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:06 pm

rob63 wrote:He's the Joe Hart of Elland Rd according to which Leeds fan you listen to, apparently!
Should have kept his place according to the ones I've asked, many who go on every home game. He's only young so could easily be another player on the conveyor belt. Only one friendly left though if he signs in time would hope he gets a chance.
Last edited by FactualFrank on Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dsr
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Re: Heats

Post by dsr » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:07 pm

Dyched wrote:Doesn't work like that.

Fans always use that excuse, "Can't offer him that because x, y and z will want the same. They don't. Footballers aren't idiots. They'll know what Heaton has achieved here, how important he is for not only the team but the club in general. Do you seriously think the likes of say Wells, Vydra, McNeill would be knocking on Seans door asking for the same? Nah doesn't happen. Not here, Man Utd or Barcalona.
If you think that Wells, Vydra, McNeil have the same status at the club as Heaton, then think again. A fair comparison would be that if Heaton gets a disproportionate pay rise, then Mee, Tarkowski, Barnes would be knocking at the manager's door demanding the same.

Dyched
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Re: Heats

Post by Dyched » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:11 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:You're saying that players don't want improved contracts if other players are paid a lot more.
If that was the case we'd still be giving the likes of Ben Mee £20k a week.

I'm talking about this Tom Heaton situation. He's a massive player for us. In the bracket of players like Aguero, Pogba, Salah, Kane are for their clubs.

What I'm saying is clubs offering huge wages to get those players to stay will NOT start other players demanding the same. That does not happen.

Obviously lesser players getting big wages will. Or if a club starts buying world class players.

An example of that is Man Utd in the early 2000's. The likes of Veron coming in of course Keane, Giggs, Beckham etc would want the same. But Chadwick wouldn't demand the same as those because that would be stupid.

Devils_Advocate
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Re: Heats

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:13 pm

Is Heaton worth £200k per week which is essentially what he will cost us if we turned down £8m and let him run out his contract out. When you add the fact that we have a Goalkeeper of Pope's quality to come in plus a player of Harts experience and quality to be backup then in my opinion that £200k weekly wage could be much better spent by adding a couple of quality outfield players with probably money left over to invest in a good young player or two
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Selby Claret
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Re: Heats

Post by Selby Claret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:16 pm

Leeds were top with BPF in goal - they then signed Casilla in January - dropped BPF, finished third and lost in the play offs (losing 10 out of their last 22)

For those using the Hart-Heaton method in their arguments - Peacock-Farrell must be a world beater........ ;)
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Blyclaret
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Re: Heats

Post by Blyclaret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:16 pm

Keane/Tarwowski
Austin/Ings
Vokes/Jay Rod
Heaton/ Pope.
Nothing to see here move on.
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dsr
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Re: Heats

Post by dsr » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:18 pm

Dyched wrote:I'm talking about this Tom Heaton situation. He's a massive player for us. In the bracket of players like Aguero, Pogba, Salah, Kane are for their clubs.

What I'm saying is clubs offering huge wages to get those players to stay will NOT start other players demanding the same. That does not happen.

Obviously lesser players getting big wages will. Or if a club starts buying world class players.

An example of that is Man Utd in the early 2000's. The likes of Veron coming in of course Keane, Giggs, Beckham etc would want the same. But Chadwick wouldn't demand the same as those because that would be stupid.
It does happen.

If, for example using random numbers, Burnley's senior players are told that this year's cap is £40k per week and no-one's getting more than that and new signings aren't getting more than that. So Heaton, Pope, Mee, Tarkowski, Westwood, Cork, Wood, Barnes, possibly one or two of the others as well, are on much of a muchness at £40k. And then Heaton is suddenly offered £60k. Do you say that none of the other top players would want any more? You don't think the abolition of the informal cap would upset anyone?

BOYSIE31
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Re: Heats

Post by BOYSIE31 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:18 pm

Tall Paul wrote:A lot younger than Heaton, so bringing the age of the squad down. Isn't that what you keep saying we should be doing?



Probably because our first choice is injured and second choice is shite.

yeah but only if he is any good - leeds fans call him butter fingers

MACCA
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Re: Heats

Post by MACCA » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:19 pm

Dyched wrote:Doesn't work like that.

Fans always use that excuse, "Can't offer him that because x, y and z will want the same. They don't. Footballers aren't idiots. They'll know what Heaton has achieved here, how important he is for not only the team but the club in general. Do you seriously think the likes of say Wells, Vydra, McNeill would be knocking on Seans door asking for the same? Nah doesn't happen. Not here, Man Utd or Barcalona.
Why use Wells , Vydra and McNeil as examples?

Look at what Tom has achieved here, look at the length he's been here, look at his contribution in games alone.
Those players cant bang in Sean's door, however when it comes to say Mee wanting a new deal, he can argue he deserves the same as the previous guy who's been "offered what he wanted" also any incoming players might think "I want what hes on".
We have a ceiling for a reason, no one goes above it. If you want more whilst here or ask for more before getting here, you wont be signing a deal.

In a similar tone, how would your boss react if you said I want the most wages in the company or I'm off.

bfcjg
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Re: Heats

Post by bfcjg » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:19 pm

This really does feel like a Martin Dobson moment.

Granny WeatherWax
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Re: Heats

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:20 pm

Absolute amateur from our club to let it get to this situation. He is arguably our most important player. The mind boggles.

Leisure
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Re: Heats

Post by Leisure » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:20 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:it's all about opinions mate, and I'm afraid yours is wrong...

;)
So all the other players had nothing to do with staying up? I'm sure that they'll be pleased to hear that!

Selby Claret
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Re: Heats

Post by Selby Claret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:21 pm

Blyclaret wrote:Keane/Tarwowski
Austin/Ings
Vokes/Jay Rod
Heaton/ Pope.
Nothing to see here move on.
I hope that 'Tarwowski' sticks

Claretmatt4
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Re: Heats

Post by Claretmatt4 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:21 pm

Losing Heaton isn't ideal but probably the right thing to do. Allowing him to go to Villa is absolutely mad.

Its conceivable that he makes saves which keep them up. It's conceivable that they stay up at our expense. For that reason alone we should refuse to sell him. If that makes him unhappy so be it. The risks are huge.

If it was to a mid table team or abroad I'd have no qualms. But why are we selling him to a relegation rival when we don't have to.

I have faith in Dyche and its not the first time I've questioned this kind of decision but I'm really struggling with this one.

Leisure
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Re: Heats

Post by Leisure » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:22 pm

Shows just how much our team captain wanted to stay and play for us! Not!

tarkys_ears
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Re: Heats

Post by tarkys_ears » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:22 pm

Vino blanco wrote:A sad day for BFC and its supporters. If Hart starts in goal against Southampton, I will be p!ssed off to say the least.
You'll be even more ****** off after 90 mins
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CombatClaret
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Re: Heats

Post by CombatClaret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:23 pm

What stage of grief are you at?

1) Denial and isolation
2) Anger
3) Bargaining
4) Depression
5) Acceptance
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Tall Paul
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Re: Heats

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:24 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:yeah but only if he is any good - leeds fans call him butter fingers
You want the moon on a stick.

GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Heats

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:25 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:yeah but only if he is any good - leeds fans call him butter fingers
Wood wasn't good enough for the PL apparently.
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dsr
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Re: Heats

Post by dsr » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:26 pm

Granny WeatherWax wrote:Absolute amateur from our club to let it get to this situation. He is arguably our most important player. The mind boggles.
Bearing in mind that he's only played 23 league games in the last two years, what are you saying the club should have done? Sold him two years ago, or given him a long contract with a big pay rise while he was injured, or forced him to sign a new contract that he doesn't want?

Darnhill Claret
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Re: Heats

Post by Darnhill Claret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:26 pm

If we were to lose one player from our main defenders I’m glad Tom was the sacrificial lamb, given his age, his contract situation and the fact that he has a very capable and much younger understudy who might well have been first choice anyway.

Claretmatt4
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Re: Heats

Post by Claretmatt4 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:27 pm

dsr wrote:Bearing in mind that he's only played 23 league games in the last two years, what are you saying the club should have done? Sold him two years ago, or given him a long contract with a big pay rise while he was injured, or forced him to sign a new contract that he doesn't want?
Literally anything other than allow him to go to a rival.

I'd rather Heaton was on the bench all season for us than starting for villa.

Dyched
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Re: Heats

Post by Dyched » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:28 pm

dsr wrote:It does happen.

If, for example using random numbers, Burnley's senior players are told that this year's cap is £40k per week and no-one's getting more than that and new signings aren't getting more than that. So Heaton, Pope, Mee, Tarkowski, Westwood, Cork, Wood, Barnes, possibly one or two of the others as well, are on much of a muchness at £40k. And then Heaton is suddenly offered £60k. Do you say that none of the other top players would want any more? You don't think the abolition of the informal cap would upset anyone?

If a club has a wage cap that possibly 10 players are at then they've given themselves massive problems.

I'd hope the club only offer 80/85% of what the actual cap is.

Mee aside those listed haven't achieved anyway near what Tom has here, plus the little fact he's club captain and made such a monumental impact last season.

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Re: Heats

Post by Foshiznik » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:29 pm

To quote an adage from the old boards: - "there's alot of weapon's grade drama-queenery on this board at the moment"
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Leisure
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Re: Heats

Post by Leisure » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:38 pm

Claretmatt4 wrote:
I'd rather Heaton was on the bench all season for us.
But maybe Tom isn't happy with that!

Claretmatt4
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Re: Heats

Post by Claretmatt4 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:39 pm

Leisure wrote:But maybe Tom isn't happy with that!
He's under contract, it doesn't really matter!

tarkys_ears
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Re: Heats

Post by tarkys_ears » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:41 pm

CombatClaret wrote:What stage of grief are you at?
1) Denial and isolation - "Joe Hart has a lot to give"
2) Anger - *After first game* F*CK JOE HART
3) Bargaining - "HE CAN GO AT XMAS ON A FREE FOR ME!"
4) Depression - "Oh why can't he just f*ck off?"
5) Acceptance - "Ah well, Championship is better anyway


Like that?

Selby Claret
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Re: Heats

Post by Selby Claret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:41 pm

Leisure wrote:But maybe Tom isn't happy with that!
It does feel like being the victim of a break-up where you don't want it to end but your girlfriend / boyfriend has decided to finish it!

We can beat our fists on the ground and tantrum all we like but if, ultimately, it's what Tom wants, then there's nothing can be done about it

Maybe its not us. it's him ;)
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dsr
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Re: Heats

Post by dsr » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:41 pm

Dyched wrote:If a club has a wage cap that possibly 10 players are at then they've given themselves massive problems.

I'd hope the club only offer 80/85% of what the actual cap is.

Mee aside those listed haven't achieved anyway near what Tom has here, plus the little fact he's club captain and made such a monumental impact last season.
Burnley do have massive problems. We're competing in a league where money is all and we're doing it with less money than anyone else playing. It's a massive problem that the current management have been able to solve so far, and I think the best way to keep solving the problems is to let the current management carry on the way they are.

Most of those listed are crucial players who have either recently signed or will soon be due for a new contract. Even if they're only on 85% of the cap, then when the cap goes up, so does 85% of it. Break the cap for one, and there will be a knock-on effect.

claretonthecoast1882
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Re: Heats

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:42 pm

Claretmatt4 wrote:He's under contract, it doesn't really matter!

Do you think Heaton deserves treating that way ? I am glad the manager and club has a bit more class and respect about themselves.
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tarkys_ears
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Re: Heats

Post by tarkys_ears » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:42 pm

Selby Claret wrote:It does feel like being the victim of a break-up where you don't want it to end but your girlfriend / boyfriend has decided to finish it!

We can beat our fists on the ground and tantrum all we like but if, ultimately, it's what Tom wants, then there's nothing can be done about it

Maybe its not us. it's him ;)
How do you know it's what he wants?

I can't imagine his first thought was "I want to go to villa no matter what" - It's just what its come to.

arise_sir_charge
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Re: Heats

Post by arise_sir_charge » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:43 pm

My only concern in all of this, is the suggestions within this thread that maybe we need the £8m to free up the purse strings for a midfielder. That simply cannot be right but if it was then serious questions need asking about the club.

For me it is thanks Tom, but we have a lad that got us to 7th in the Premier League and a bloke with 70 plus England caps as well as the chance, it seems, to sign an up and coming international keeper for Bill Mercer to work with.

Can't see the problem with any of that myself.
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JTClaret
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Re: Heats

Post by JTClaret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:44 pm

Sad to see him go. Mad to see him go to Villa.
But if he wasn't going to sign a contract what can the club really do.

Time will tell. Who'd have thought when we signed him we would have Joe Hart and an England squad goalkeeper and still be disappointed to see him go.

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Re: Heats

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:44 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:My only concern in all of this, is the suggestions within this thread that maybe we need the £8m to free up the purse strings for a midfielder. That simply cannot be right but if it was then serious questions need asking about the club.

For me it is thanks Tom, but we have a lad that got us to 7th in the Premier League and a bloke with 70 plus England caps as well as the chance, it seems, to sign an up and coming international keeper for Bill Mercer to work with.

Can't see the problem with any of that myself.

You can't use the words by someone on here as though they are from the club. Dyche has repeatedly said we don't have to sell anyone.

dsr
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Re: Heats

Post by dsr » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:45 pm

Claretmatt4 wrote:He's under contract, it doesn't really matter!
In a side built round team spirit, it might just matter if the captain isn't happy at the club.

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Re: Heats

Post by Selby Claret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:45 pm

tarkys_ears wrote:How do you know it's what he wants?

I can't imagine his first thought was "I want to go to villa no matter what" - It's just what its come to.
And there endeth most relationships!

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Re: Heats

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:47 pm

dsr wrote:Bearing in mind that he's only played 23 league games in the last two years, what are you saying the club should have done? Sold him two years ago, or given him a long contract with a big pay rise while he was injured, or forced him to sign a new contract that he doesn't want?
You mean like we did when we took the option to extend Defour's contract?

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Re: Heats

Post by ElectroClaret » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:50 pm

bfcjg wrote:This really does feel like a Martin Dobson moment.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Heats

Post by TVC15 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:05 pm

tarkys_ears wrote:How do you know it's what he wants?

I can't imagine his first thought was "I want to go to villa no matter what" - It's just what its come to.
Of course it’s what he wants.
Pay rise / big signing on fee (he’s never had one in his career to date)
Better and longer contract than we offered
New challenge
Playing in front of 40k fans
And maybe stuff that happened last season where he feels let down by Dyche.

He’s been the best goalkeeper we’ve ever had in my lifetime and one of my favourite players ever.
But Trippier was my favourite and he left
Danny Ings was brilliant - he left.
Keane was absolute class - he left.
Robbie Blake left
Glen Little left
Trevor Steven left
Etc etc

It’s what happens
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Re: Heats

Post by wilks_bfc » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:09 pm

At least the club don’t seem to be tweeting as much today so I’m not getting any “nervy notifications” :shock:

dsr
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Re: Heats

Post by dsr » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:11 pm

Granny WeatherWax wrote:You mean like we did when we took the option to extend Defour's contract?
There is a difference between the club being able to extend Dufour's contract and he doesn't have a say in it, and the club being able to offer Heaton a new contract but it's up to him whether he accepts.

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Re: Heats

Post by tarkys_ears » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:14 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Is Heaton worth £200k per week which is essentially what he will cost us if we turned down £8m and let him run out his contract out. When you add the fact that we have a Goalkeeper of Pope's quality to come in plus a player of Harts experience and quality to be backup then in my opinion that £200k weekly wage could be much better spent by adding a couple of quality outfield players with probably money left over to invest in a good young player or two
If Pope gets injured, it'll cost a lot more than that.

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