England v Australia 1st Ashes Test

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:20 pm

tiger76 wrote:Hope you enjoy your day,Qtt are you brave enough to experience the hollies stand?

We can bat well,whether we will bat well is a different matter,you feel Burns,Root and Stokes will have to bat until mid-afternoon,or even until after tea to give England a fighting chance of saving this test,and even if England do emerge with a fighting draw,the Aussies will see it as a moral victory at fortress Edgbaston.

Time for Bairstow and Moeen to stand up and be counted,they've offered little in this game so far.

Yeah, going in the Hollies stand. I don't know how busy the ground will be though.

From a spectators point of view even if just one of the batsman has a good innings it will be worth the admission money.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:29 pm

I wonder if our mindset might change if say we've lost just one wicket for 120-130 runs at lunch? Chasing around 260 runs in two sessions might be do-able thereafter, especially with 9 wickets intact.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:35 pm

Spijed wrote:I wonder if our mindset might change if say we've lost just one wicket for 120-130 runs at lunch? Chasing around 260 runs in two sessions might be do-able thereafter, especially with 9 wickets intact.

No because this is a test match. Even in the unlikely scenario that we bat brilliantly, there are no fielding restrictions and they won't be called for leg side "wides" unless they're really wide. So even if we get some momentum they can just start bowling wide of the leg stump into the footholes. It would be suicidal of us to go for it if they bowl defensively and have 6 or 7 men on the fence.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:03 am

If they bowl wide of the leg stump all day they rule out LBW and nearly all caught behinds straight away.

We need less than 4 an over on a dead pitch facing a good spinner and a moderate seam attack.

The batters are more than capable of picking up ones and twos along the ground all day long without danger of being caught. Simples.

I would hope tomorrow that we don't try to bat the day our for a draw and attempt to win the game.

It's a spectator sport and there will be plenty there to try and see us make a fist of it.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:38 am

tybfc wrote:If they bowl wide of the leg stump all day they rule out LBW and nearly all caught behinds straight away.
.

Wasn't referring to that, if you read the context of my post. I was on about how the Australians can bowl negatively and set the field right back in the last couple of hours should we end up with an outside chance of knocking the runs off.
Let's say - miraculously - we got to say 190 / 200 in the first 2 sessions with only 1 or 2 down. That would leave another 180 or so to win in the final session. Chasing say 6 an over for 30 overs is much more difficult than in an ODI since there are no fielding restrictions and umpires are more lenient on wides, short pitched deliveries etc. And this would be on a 5 day old pitch as well.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:57 am

Wonder how many times on commentary Isa Guha will refer to a "scrambled seam' or"cross seam" delivery?

It is as though somebody has reinvented or redesigned the cricket ball.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:04 am

I can’t see a nail biting finish today.

I think we will either survive comfortably or crumble under pressure from Lyon (like we did so many times against Warne) and be all over by tea.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:09 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Wasn't referring to that, if you read the context of my post. I was on about how the Australians can bowl negatively and set the field right back in the last couple of hours should we end up with an outside chance of knocking the runs off.
Let's say - miraculously - we got to say 190 / 200 in the first 2 sessions with only 1 or 2 down. That would leave another 180 or so to win in the final session. Chasing say 6 an over for 30 overs is much more difficult than in an ODI since there are no fielding restrictions and umpires are more lenient on wides, short pitched deliveries etc. And this would be on a 5 day old pitch as well.

England have no chance of winning this test,but a very good chance of saving it,i would happily see us 250/5 at stumps and easily batting out the day,then trying daft shots and being bowled out,if we can bat out the final day on a turning pitch against Lyon that'll build the batters confidence following on from the 1st innings.

There was a reason Paine batted on he wanted to take an England win out of the equation,now he's done that he can set attacking fields,and concede the odd boundary.

The current mentality seems to be there has to be a result either way,this is a result of too much white ball cricket,batting 4th on the 5th day your first priority is too not lose the game,this is a 5 match series remember.

From England's POV,the pitch is getting slower and slower,this makes it harder to score,but it should be easier to occupy the crease,which is all England have to do.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:57 am

These umpires are having absolute shockers.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:01 pm

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nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:02 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:These umpires are having absolute shockers.

Mainly Wilson to be fair. he's got 8 wrong now.
Really worrying if we run out of reviews and he's called upon to make crucial decisions in the final hour.
Memo to our batters: don't needlessly waste any reviews. We're gonna need them.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:18 pm

Jason Roy. Oh dear.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:21 pm

What a terrible choice of shot. That's Roy's issue, too run hungry to open IMO.
Boom or bust type of player.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:23 pm

Now which footy ref could we twin Wilson with?

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:31 pm

That was a (bad) one day shot from Roy. Therein lies the problem with him and a couple of others in this England test team.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:34 pm

Vino blanco wrote:That was a (bad) one day shot from Roy. Therein lies the problem with him and a couple of others in this England test team.

Only two others? Who are you excluding from the list?

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:34 pm

Vino blanco wrote:That was a (bad) one day shot from Roy. Therein lies the problem with him and a couple of others in this England test team.

Spot on. Who else is there though?

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:36 pm

I was trying to be nice to them.

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:52 pm

All over bar the shouting.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:52 pm

box_of_frogs wrote:Spot on. Who else is there though?

Where's Foakes?
Oh, and there's Root gone too. (He's not our Smith)

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:55 pm

Yeah, Foakes in (to keep) and move Bairstow up the order. Still a drama with our opening pair though IMHO.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:01 pm

Be over by tea at this rate,if we could have got to lunch 2 down,and Root still there,who knows,but Lyon will run through the left-handers now.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:03 pm

England batsmen yet again unable to play the situation. What the hell was Jason Roy playing at? 4 down now and the test is lost. Australia yesterday made 205 before their 4th wicket went down, England don't look like reaching that mark with all 11 batsmen.....

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:08 pm

Vino blanco wrote:That was a (bad) one day shot from Roy. Therein lies the problem with him and a couple of others in this England test team.

Absolutely right. Not even a good one day shot! There's getting on to the attack as best form of defence, but then there's suicidal!!

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:09 pm

I've said it before, this test batting line up can not play under pressure (plus they simply aren't good enough). We simply don't have a Ken Barrington, Geoff Boycott, Graham Gooch or Alistair Cooke etc. It will be interesting to see what the selectors do for the next test.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:12 pm

TBH the biggest issue isn't really the batting, even though right now it looks like it is. The issue is that Australia got far too many runs in both innings as our spinners all put together can't match the pressure Lyon can put on. He's the difference here.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:28 pm

The biggest issue is the batting. To be fair to Root, losing Anderson after 4 overs has had a massive impact on this match. Regarding our so called spinners, Moeen is simply not a test match spin bowler, I actually thought Denley bowled better than he did.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:09 pm

Going well since lunch - lost 3 wickets for 12, now 97/7

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:16 pm

Embarrassing, although playing with basically 9 doesnt help.

Bowling attack look clueless on how to get rid of Smith, almost to the point they wait for him to get himself out.

The batting is very suspect with arguably only Root and Stokes comfortable at test level. The others dont seem to be test players or simply just not good enough.

Will be extremely tough to win 1, never mind 3.

Hopefully Archer will help, but sure where they go from here in terms of top of the order.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:20 pm

Is this the result of One Day success? Not talking about this summer. But in general England have been shambolic in One Day cricket for years. As there been more focus put on that eg training of players, batsmen etc in more of a One Day mould than what is needed in Test?

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:30 pm

Woakes is going to get these, i’m having a tenner on it!

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:32 pm

It might be a blessing in disguise going down to a heavy defeat,which is inevitable now,the selectors will have to make changes.

I'd drop Bairstow definitely he's offered nothing in either innings.

The other decisions aren't as easy Mo's place must be in doubt,Leech seems the obvious call up.

The only England players who've performed to the required standard in this match are.

Burns-excellent hundred in the 1st innings.

Stokes-runs and wickets from your all-rounder,plus he's put his heart and soul into his game.

Broad-toiled manfully on a barren track in both innings.

Woakes-same as Stokes runs and wickets.

Root-get's pass mark's but he has to turn these starts into big scores.

It's hard to compete in a test match when half your side doesn't turn up.

A telling stat,Steve Smith 286 runs,Joe Root 85,200 run difference between the skipper's alone.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:35 pm

Steve Smith isn’t their skipper. Honest.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:45 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Steve Smith isn’t their skipper. Honest.

In name no but he's their inspiration,and i'm sure he's involved in a lot of decisions that are made.

Apparently he'll be reinstated captain in a year or so,once his ban is complete.

It's no coincidence that since he and Warner have returned the Aussie's brashness has also reappeared.

Credit to Moeen and Woakes at least they're fighting to the bitter end.

This test was close for 3 days,but the Australians have dominated ever since.

Amazing to recall they were 122-8 on day 1,and they're probably gonna win the match by over 200 runs.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:51 pm

The were also -60 for 3.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:53 pm

"Credit to Moeen"........????

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:54 pm

Lyon on a hat trick. We need a least a hundred from Jimmy.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:57 pm

What is the point in sending Anderson in when he’s injured?
They’ve already said batting in the first innings made it worse.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:58 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:The were also -60 for 3.

Are you sure?

edison · Post by **edison** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:02 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:What is the point in sending Anderson in when he’s injured?
They’ve already said batting in the first innings made it worse.

I wondered this too

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:05 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Root-get's pass mark's but he has to turn these starts into big scores.
.

I think that you might find quite a lot of disagreement there.
Personally I think he's had an absolute nightmare.
Firstly, 122-8 , and he goes all defensive, (that tactic against Siddle was probably where the game was won and lost, they should have been out for below 175.)
Added to that innumerable inexplicable bowling changes and field placings, and then yesterday. A bowler short and he hardly used Woakes, and ok Moeen's off-form but he should have bowled more overs rather than the 2 Joes.
I don't think he's got much right tbh.
He's not a good captain.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:10 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Are you sure?

No, thought they were about 30-3 (so 60 behind) but just checked, they were only 15 behind when they lost their third wicket.

Gunfury · Post by **Gunfury** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:17 pm

What an absolute come down from the World Cup win....different format I know but the 2 England sides are streets apart

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:20 pm

Gunfury wrote:What an absolute come down from the World Cup win....different format I know but the 2 England sides are streets apart

England were a shoe-in for the team of the year yet if they lose the series, and badly, it'll look a bit embarrassing.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:22 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:I think that you might find quite a lot of disagreement there.
Personally I think he's had an absolute nightmare.
Firstly, 122-8 , and he goes all defensive, (that tactic against Siddle was probably where the game was won and lost, they should have been out for below 175.)
Added to that innumerable inexplicable bowling changes and field placings, and then yesterday. A bowler short and he hardly used Woakes, and ok Moeen's off-form but he should have bowled more overs rather than the 2 Joes.
I don't think he's got much right tbh.
He's not a good captain.

Agree with most of that.
Just when you start thinking Joe's got the hang of this captaincy lark, he seems to have a huge brain fart.
We let them off the hook in that first innings, even taking into account losing Jimmy.
Given where we had them, Joe probably missed a few of his wise words as much as his bowling.
It was cricket criminality what we gave Siddle.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:22 pm

If Anderson thought he was fit enough to start you’d have to take his word for it.
That was a big blow, we could have rolled them over, and probably would have, in that first innings and it’s a different game.

The batting hasn’t really told us anything we don’t know. No real plans in place for the line up, Roy brought in a few weeks before, deciding Root is going to bat three the week before.
The lack of planning with the team is mirrored in the way they bat. If they have to dig in more often than not they just fold.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:24 pm

What a shambles. Aussies go on from 122-8in first to declare in second innings and still win by over 250. Thought Root was shocking as captain. Some of his choices were mystifying. He should play as a batsman but not as captain. Obviously Archer has to play and I would think Curran in place of Ali. At least Curran has some bottle. We might be World one day Champions but that was a stunningly weak performance. Not seen Stone play but he must be in the reckoning.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:26 pm

Who's good captain material?

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:30 pm

Spijed wrote:Who's good captain material?

Only Buttler from the current team but not sure he should even play the 5 day format.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:35 pm

If Bairstow isn't contributing any runs then we may as well give the gloves to Foakes or Buttler who are both far better wicket keepers. Him and Mooen Ali are being picked purely on their name at the minute.