Smart Meter

[Stayingup]

The smart meter and the android app my company supply is certainly saving me a lot of money and with smart radiator valves my energy costs have plummeted.
Check out octopus. Best energy company I've ever dealt with.

I will check out Octopus. I understand they are the only 'Which' recommended Company. Good to know that.

[Devils_Advocate]

Are the people installing these meters appropriately qualified? Gas Safe registered for gas and the equivalent for Electricity?

Yes

[Leisure]

Had new gas and electricity smart meters in for about 3 month now. The electricity usage for those 3 months this year are very similar to the same 3 months last year. However, whilst I'm not aware of any additional usage my gas reading for the last 3 months have been significantly (250%) higher than last year. I've spoken to my supplier who says that the readings must be correct. Anyone experienced anything similar?

[dougcollins]

You're not heating your neighbours are you? Perhaps the man with a van connected your meter to the wrong pipe.

[Devils_Advocate]

Had new gas and electricity smart meters in for about 3 month now. The electricity usage for those 3 months this year are very similar to the same 3 months last year. However, whilst I'm not aware of any additional usage my gas reading for the last 3 months have been significantly (250%) higher than last year. I've spoken to my supplier who says that the readings must be correct. Anyone experienced anything similar?

Best thing to do first is check the historical meter reads for your old meter and see if they were estimates. This is probably the biggest cause of billing issues within the utilities industry

[Bosscat]

Had new gas and electricity smart meters in for about 3 month now. The electricity usage for those 3 months this year are very similar to the same 3 months last year. However, whilst I'm not aware of any additional usage my gas reading for the last 3 months have been significantly (250%) higher than last year. I've spoken to my supplier who says that the readings must be correct. Anyone experienced anything similar?

Do you have a leak Leisure m8 ... because surely (its been warmer than usual at this time of year) you cannot be using 2.5 times the amount of gas.....

[FactualFrank]

Do you have a leak Leisure m8 ... because surely (its been warmer than usual at this time of year) you cannot be using 2.5 times the amount of gas.....

Maybe he's cooking more on the hob.

[Devils_Advocate]

Do you have a leak Leisure m8 ... because surely (its been warmer than usual at this time of year) you cannot be using 2.5 times the amount of gas.....

Wont be a leak as I think it would take around £1 worth of gas to blow a house up.

[standishclarets]

We keep being pestered to have a smart meter installed. First of all, I always take the meter readings myself at the end of each month and send them to the company. I like to know how much gas and electric we are using and seeing how it compares with last year or the year before.

When pestered, I always ask the same question - if its a smart meter will it tell us then how much energy each appliance is using. Oh, no - its not that smart!!

[Leisure]

You're not heating your neighbours are you? Perhaps the man with a van connected your meter to the wrong pipe.

Next door is empty.

[Leisure]

Best thing to do first is check the historical meter reads for your old meter and see if they were estimates. This is probably the biggest cause of billing issues within the utilities industry

I always sent in monthly reads.

[FactualFrank]

We keep being pestered to have a smart meter installed. First of all, I always take the meter readings myself at the end of each month and send them to the company. I like to know how much gas and electric we are using and seeing how it compares with last year or the year before.

When pestered, I always ask the same question - if its a smart meter will it tell us then how much energy each appliance is using. Oh, no - its not that smart!!

I guess you could possibly find out by turning everything off and turn them on, one at a time. Although never used a smart meter.

[Leisure]

Do you have a leak Leisure m8 ... because surely (its been warmer than usual at this time of year) you cannot be using 2.5 times the amount of gas.....

Not aware of a leak!

[Devils_Advocate]

I always sent in monthly reads.

Check with your supplier or on your old bills that they were used and if they were check the removal read of your old meter is correct and in line with those reads.

Beyond that im no further help but just to say it is highly unlikely to be anything to do with your meter be it Smart or Dumb but good luck!!

[TVC15]

You still on the same tariff Leisure ?
Just wondering whether they have moved you to a default / standard at the end of a deal ?

Though can’t imagine even if they did the difference would be so much

[Leisure]

You still on the same tariff Leisure ?
Just wondering whether they have moved you to a default / standard at the end of a deal ?

Though can’t imagine even if they did the difference would be so much

It’s the consumption figures which have increased significantly.

[Long Time Lurker]

A bloke comes round to read our meter. He seems like a nice bloke and I don't have the heart to put him out of a job.

The biggest beneficaries of Smart Meters are the electric companies. They have simply jumped on the eco bus to boost their own profits, much like the electric bulb companies. The greedy utility companies aren't the type to push something that only benefits consumers, but something that will benefit them at the expense of others is right up their street.

I don't need a Smart Meter, I don't see the value in them and I don't want one.

[FactualFrank]

A bloke comes round to read our meter. He seems like a nice bloke and I don't have the heart to put him out of a job.

The biggest beneficaries of Smart Meters are the electric companies. They have simply jumped on the eco bus to boost their own profits, much like the electric bulb companies. The greedy utility companies aren't the type to push something that only benefits consumers, but something that will benefit them at the expense of others is right up their street.

I don't need a Smart Meter, I don't see the value in them and I don't want one.

Something they learn by their customers having a smart meter - what times of day they are out.

So they can make extra by selling the data on to burglars

[basil6345789]

Do conventional meters, both electricity and gas, with age and wear, tend to "overcharge" or "undercharge"? I would have thought there would have been a legal requirements for suppliers to demonstrate periodic calibration/acuracy when using the readings to charge money.

[ClaretDiver]

Smart meters can be hacked quite easily evidently. A family member is a White Hat Hacker and has sworn he wull never have one!

[deanothedino]

We keep being pestered to have a smart meter installed. First of all, I always take the meter readings myself at the end of each month and send them to the company. I like to know how much gas and electric we are using and seeing how it compares with last year or the year before.

You'd still get to see that, just even more regularly without looking at the meter.

I'm sure some people just avoid getting one so they can have something to fight against.

[deanothedino]

A bloke comes round to read our meter. He seems like a nice bloke and I don't have the heart to put him out of a job.

The biggest beneficaries of Smart Meters are the electric companies. They have simply jumped on the eco bus to boost their own profits, much like the electric bulb companies. The greedy utility companies aren't the type to push something that only benefits consumers, but something that will benefit them at the expense of others is right up their street.

I don't need a Smart Meter, I don't see the value in them and I don't want one.

The other beneficaries are people who don't send a meter reading in every month as they'll no longer get estimated bills.

Do conventional meters, both electricity and gas, with age and wear, tend to "overcharge" or "undercharge"? I would have thought there would have been a legal requirements for suppliers to demonstrate periodic calibration/acuracy when using the readings to charge money.

That's why they have a certification period, and that's why you have to let them change a meter when that period is up. It isn't your meter, it is their meter.

[Devils_Advocate]

Smart meters can be hacked quite easily evidently. A family member is a White Hat Hacker and has sworn he wull never have one!

This is wrong. The readings on the meter work in just the same as the readings on a dumb meter and couldn't be changed remotely at all.

The data the meter sends to hub is secured to the same level of your personal banking data so whilst anything can be hacked it would be far from easy.

Just to add the suppler doesn't own or store your data that is captured through the meter. This is controlled by the industry regulators and government and you have to give consent for your supplier or any other company to access and use your data.

With the current Tory government I'm not sure it wouldn't be better off in the hands of the suppliers as they are probably a lot more honest and trustworthy

[mealdeal]

The other beneficaries are people who don't send a meter reading in every month as they'll no longer get estimated bills.

In general estimated bills are corrected - it might take some time admittedly but no one is being over-charged for the electricity or gas they use by an estimated bill - that all feeds into the misnomer that smart meters are somehow magically saving you money.

There are various reasons not to submit to having a smart meter, some very technical ones and some practical ones. Practically, they allow the energy companies to do two things; firstly, it allows they creation of peak usage tariffs, so companies could charge you more dynamically for power consumed during peak periods. That might suit some people, but equally it won't suit others, as always.

Secondly and my biggest beef is a traditional analogue meter (or a digital display version) measures the simple relationship between the current and voltage measuring 'real' power (kW). Smart meters have the facility to measure 'apparent' power, (kVA) which gets technical as it involves power factors and suchlike - but the short version is at the moment you consume an element of electricity (kVAR) which the power company can't easily charge for. With a smart meter, they can and will.

[Bullabill]

Smart meters give the supplier the ability to remotely disconnect individual properties. If overall supply volume becomes an issue for any reason (maybe the sun ain't shining or the wind blowing) they can terminate supply to residential properties in favour of say, hospitals or manufacturing industries.

[Devils_Advocate]

In general estimated bills are corrected - it might take some time admittedly but no one is being over-charged for the electricity or gas they use by an estimated bill - that all feeds into the misnomer that smart meters are somehow magically saving you money.

One of the biggest costs to energy suppliers is having people on the end of phone lines to help customers and deal with problems and enquires. This cost is ultimately passed on to all consumers through their bills.

Eradicating estimated reads will take out a massive % of customer enquires so even though it may get finally sorted by removing the problem in the first place everyone will benefit from cheaper bills.

[deanothedino]

There are various reasons not to submit to having a smart meter, some very technical ones and some practical ones.

And obviously there's the fact that ultimately you will one day have no choice.

[deanothedino]

In general estimated bills are corrected - it might take some time admittedly but no one is being over-charged for the electricity or gas they use by an estimated bill - that all feeds into the misnomer that smart meters are somehow magically saving you money.

I don't think I've ever stated that they save money, they save time though. Also, some people still pay off their bill each quarter. While being overcharged will be corrected, it may leave them short at the time and they may not be able to afford it. They'll then ring their provider and spend x minutes on the line using up the providers resources, which naturally have a cost attached.

[mealdeal]

I don't think I've ever stated that they save money, they save time though. Also, some people still pay off their bill each quarter. While being overcharged will be corrected, it may leave them short at the time and they may not be able to afford it. They'll then ring their provider and spend x minutes on the line using up the providers resources, which naturally have a cost attached.

I didn't say you said that, I said that the marketing campaign is based on that. They won't save money, they will cost people money and I've explained why but you've just skipped that bit.

[mealdeal]

Eradicating estimated reads will take out a massive % of customer enquires so even though it may get finally sorted by removing the problem in the first place everyone will benefit from cheaper bills.

No they won't and like Deano you've ignored the bottom of my post.

[Devils_Advocate]

No they won't and like Deano you've ignored the bottom of my post.

I was only addressing the first part of your post which I know to be incorrect and yes the price on your bills is impacted by the company's cost to serve and having to deal with calls around estimated bills does increase the cost to serve and raises the prices

[mealdeal]

I was only addressing the first part of your post which I know to be incorrect and yes the price on your bills is impacted by the company's cost to serve and having to deal with calls around estimated bills does increase the cost to serve and raises the prices

But you can't entirely ignore the bit that explains why smart meters will ultimately cost people more money, just because electricity suppliers might be able to pass on some cost savings in their business.

There are a lot of bull**** reasons people don't want smart meters and they are just that. However don't for one minute think that the roll out of smart meters is for the benefit of the consumer, because it isn't - a few crumbs might be dropped from the table, who knows - but the only reason for them is so that suppliers can absolutely maximise their income.

[Devils_Advocate]

But you can't entirely ignore the bit that explains why smart meters will ultimately cost people more money, just because electricity suppliers might be able to pass on some cost savings in their business.

There are a lot of bull**** reasons people don't want smart meters and they are just that. However don't for one minute think that the roll out of smart meters is for the benefit of the consumer, because it isn't - a few crumbs might be dropped from the table, who knows - but the only reason for them is so that suppliers can absolutely maximise their income.

Ok I wasn't tying to make a case either way whether Smart Meters cost people more money or not but I was just trying to counter misinformation and inaccuracies which your first paragraph had. If you want me to address the rest of your post I will.

I disagree with your second paragraph but the area is subjective and not factual so its just a matter of opinion. What I have seen (and I have worked on time of use projects) is that the problem the industry faces is that because electricity cannot be stored at off peak times we waste a lot of electricity. The strategy I have seen to get customer to change their behaviours and use more electricity at off peak times is to incentivise that use by offering lower rates and not by increasing the price at peak times. We have seen this for donkey's years through E7 and E10 meters with the use of night storage heaters for ele only properties. The Energy industry is on its knees and is super competitive so if a company bumped up the prices for peak times they would be blown out the water and plus the government has put limits on tariffs which will help stop this. Now who knows how things will be shaped in the future and its possible that company's could reverse this strategy but there are no signs I have seen of that happening so far

With your last paragraph I do not have the technical knowledge and understanding in this area so I don't feel I can offer any relevent or worthwhile opinion so I have stayed quiet

[mealdeal]

I disagree with your second paragraph but the area is subjective and not factual so its just a matter of opinion. What I have seen (and I have worked on time of use projects) is that the problem the industry faces is that because electricity cannot be stored at off peak times we waste a lot of electricity. The strategy I have seen to get customer to change their behaviours and use more electricity at off peak times is to incentivise that use by offering lower rates and not by increasing the price at peak times. We have seen this for donkey's years through E7 and E10 meters with the use of night storage heaters for ele only properties. The Energy industry is on its knees and is super competitive so if a company bumped up the prices for peak times they would be blown out the water and plus the government has put limits on tariffs which will help stop this. Now who knows how things will be shaped in the future and its possible that company's could reverse this strategy but there are no signs I have seen of that happening so far

Fair comments and you make a good point about E7 and E10, but these aren't dynamic charging tariffs. I would suggest though that the roll out of SMETS2 meters isn't complete enough for the more snidey facilities to be utilised. We will see in the next few years how these are implemented but I maintain it won't be for the good of consumers.

[deanothedino]

I didn't say you said that, I said that the marketing campaign is based on that. They won't save money, they will cost people money and I've explained why but you've just skipped that bit.

I've skipped it because I still haven't said that will save customer's any money...

[Devils_Advocate]

Fair comments and you make a good point about E7 and E10, but these aren't dynamic charging tariffs. I would suggest though that the roll out of SMETS2 meters isn't complete enough for the more snidey facilities to be utilised. We will see in the next few years how these are implemented but I maintain it won't be for the good of consumers.

Yep thats why I didn't address it initially cos it could go either way so its a wait and see. Just to clarify I dont think Company's will incentivise off peak hours for the good of the customer but more its what they may have to do to stay profitable and competitive.

Anyway its definitely one to keep an eye on

[durhamclaret]

It’s the consumption figures which have increased significantly.

Send that meter back Leisure and buy yourself a nice warm coat instead!

[BFCmaj]

Slightly different issue, but I teach guitar from home and when I play through my amplifier (which is directly beneath the cupboard that has the smart meter), I get GSM signal interference. This is the "dit ditty dit ditty dit" sound that used to come from mobiles phones, although most mobile phones don't do this now. I am fairly sure it is from the smart meter and although we've had the smart meter a couple of years, it only started just before Christmas and seems to happen daily from around 4pm.

[Leisure]

Had new gas and electricity smart meters in for about 3 month now. The electricity usage for those 3 months this year are very similar to the same 3 months last year. However, whilst I'm not aware of any additional usage my gas reading for the last 3 months have been significantly (250%) higher than last year. I've spoken to my supplier who says that the readings must be correct. Anyone experienced anything similar?

Issue sorted. The conversion rate for the new meter (metric) to kwh is different from the conversion rate for the previous Imperial meter. For Imperial units used you multiply by 2.83, then by 1.02264, then by 39.7 and then divide by 3.6 but to convert from metric units you don't use the 2.83 in the conversion. So for metric/smart meters the units usage will be 2.83 times higher than on an Imperial meter. Therefore, although my new meter was showing around 250% higher usage than last year on the old meter, when these units are converted the kwh usage is practically the same. Not sure why the person who I spoke to at Ovo didn't explain this to me!

[Devils_Advocate]

Issue sorted. The conversion rate for the new meter (metric) to kwh is different from the conversion rate for the previous Imperial meter. For Imperial units used you multiply by 2.83, then by 1.02264, then by 39.7 and then divide by 3.6 but to convert from metric units you don't use the 2.83 in the conversion. So for metric/smart meters the units usage will be 2.83 times higher than on an Imperial meter. Therefore, although my new meter was showing around 250% higher usage than last year on the old meter, when these units are converted the kwh usage is practically the same. Not sure why the person who I spoke to at Ovo didn't explain this to me!

Bloody hell Leisure, your meter must have been older than you!!! To be fair to Ovo you're probably the only customer they've ever had on an Imperial meter.