Smart Meter

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Leisure
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Smart Meter

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:47 pm

I've been contacted by my energy supplier saying that my meter's certification has expired and they want to now fit a smart meter. In the past when they've offered me one I've always refused, as I really don't see the benefits. (I'm perfectly capable of reading my meters and sending them the readings!). Does anyone know if this expired certification story is likely to be true or are they just trying to force me to get a smart meter? Also, what are people's opinions on smart meters?

claretblue
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by claretblue » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:49 pm

I just ignore letters and keep tellin' them no!

Think they have financial incentive from central government to replace as many as possible! :?

Bosscat
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Bosscat » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:56 pm

Leisure wrote:I've been contacted by my energy supplier saying that my meter's certification has expired and they want to now fit a smart meter. In the past when they've offered me one I've always refused, as I really don't see the benefits. (I'm perfectly capable of reading my meters and sending them the readings!). Does anyone know if this expired certification story is likely to be true or are they just trying to force me to get a smart meter? Also, what are people's opinions on smart meters?
Are you related to my Mrs :lol: :lol: :lol: ... you have basically said word for word what she says and thinks.

As claretblue says I think its down to central gov trying to get them installed....

Until they standardize we won't be going with one.
My m8 had one and when he changed supplier they had to replace the meter as it wasn't comparable to their systems......
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Fretters
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Fretters » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:00 pm

They're good, useful things to have, if only to stop you having to take manual readings and send them in. It's so much easier just letting the device do it for you. There's also the obvious benefit of seeing exactly how much you're spending too.

durhamclaret
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by durhamclaret » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:00 pm

I tell em no as well, also it's another possible way of you being tied to the energy company as I'm informed that it can be difficult to change suppliers in the future cos they don't want another companies smart meter. I personally don't see any benefit in changing.

Stayingup
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Stayingup » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:28 pm

Leisure wrote:I've been contacted by my energy supplier saying that my meter's certification has expired and they want to now fit a smart meter. In the past when they've offered me one I've always refused, as I really don't see the benefits. (I'm perfectly capable of reading my meters and sending them the readings!). Does anyone know if this expired certification story is likely to be true or are they just trying to force me to get a smart meter? Also, what are people's opinions on smart meters?
Read recently that even the second generation, which is we are at now, can be problematic. The first generation ones were a problem when switching supplier. The new ones', I am told, can have problems connecting up to wherever they connect to, to send in the information on usage. My supplier is asking me to install one. I asked them do they charge more for someone who dosent have one and they said no, so I didn't. But I am gloing to negotiate with them when the current is up later in the yaer.

Down_Rover
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Down_Rover » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:43 pm

It is just another intrusion by Big Brother.

Cant believe spending trillions installing these spyboxes can be more cost effective than employing men with vans.

lovebeingaclaret
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by lovebeingaclaret » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:55 pm

The smart meter and the android app my company supply is certainly saving me a lot of money and with smart radiator valves my energy costs have plummeted.
Check out octopus. Best energy company I've ever dealt with.

ClaretTony
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:58 pm

I got one a couple of years ago. I’d no idea how the display thing worked so phoned to ask. The advise I was given was to unplug it and shove it in a drawer. It’s never seen the light of day since.

South West Claret.
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by South West Claret. » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:59 pm

Leisure wrote:I've been contacted by my energy supplier saying that my meter's certification has expired and they want to now fit a smart meter. In the past when they've offered me one I've always refused, as I really don't see the benefits. (I'm perfectly capable of reading my meters and sending them the readings!). Does anyone know if this expired certification story is likely to be true or are they just trying to force me to get a smart meter? Also, what are people's opinions on smart meters?
Don't be conned by the utilities they have been bribed by this Government to try and convince householders all over the Country that they need one and that they will give you this and that.

Don't fall for it like many have.

Fretters
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Fretters » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:01 pm

lovebeingaclaret wrote:The smart meter and the android app my company supply is certainly saving me a lot of money and with smart radiator valves my energy costs have plummeted.
Check out octopus. Best energy company I've ever dealt with.
Agree with Octopus, I'm with them now and they are brilliant. On an unrelated note, if you sign up via this link we both get £50 ;) :lol: https://share.octopus.energy/super-lord-895" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Leisure
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:03 pm

lovebeingaclaret wrote:The smart meter and the android app my company supply is certainly saving me a lot of money and with smart radiator valves my energy costs have plummeted.
Check out octopus. Best energy company I've ever dealt with.
Just interested to know how it's actually saving you a lot of money?

Fretters
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Fretters » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:04 pm

Down_Rover wrote:It is just another intrusion by Big Brother.

Cant believe spending trillions installing these spyboxes can be more cost effective than employing men with vans.
You know it's a man with a van who installs it, right? And he comes to your house a grand total of once, as opposed to every month for the archaic metres.

As for spying - do you also think the earth is flat?

agreenwood
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by agreenwood » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:10 pm

Slightly off topic, but the biggest con going are the meter boxes.

When I moved into my house 15 years ago, both boxes were knackered and let in water. As the boxes (one above the other) are set into the external wall, I was told the supplies would need to be disconnected and meters would need to be removed before the boxes could be replaced. All fair enough, but I struggled to find anyone who would do the job. The regional contractors wouldn’t touch the meters and the energy suppliers wouldn’t touch the mains supplies.

Eventually I managed to get Northern Gas Network (Gas) and Northern Powergrid (Elec) to admit that they were the only ones who had the right licenses to do the work. Both wanted £750 for what they admitted would be a few hours work max – so £1500 to replace the two boxes.

Needless to say I continue to use gaffer tape to cover the holes and stop the meter box doors falling off.

ClaretTony
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:15 pm

agreenwood wrote:Slightly off topic, but the biggest con going are the meter boxes.

When I moved into my house 15 years ago, both boxes were knackered and let in water. As the boxes (one above the other) are set into the external wall, I was told the supplies would need to be disconnected and meters would need to be removed before the boxes could be replaced. All fair enough, but I struggled to find anyone who would do the job. The regional contractors wouldn’t touch the meters and the energy suppliers wouldn’t touch the mains supplies.

Eventually I managed to get Northern Gas Network (Gas) and Northern Powergrid (Elec) to admit that they were the only ones who had the right licenses to do the work. Both wanted £750 for what they admitted would be a few hours work max – so £1500 to replace the two boxes.

Needless to say I continue to use gaffer tape to cover the holes and stop the meter box doors falling off.
My gas meter box door has fallen off

karatekid
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by karatekid » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:19 pm

Down_Rover wrote:It is just another intrusion by Big Brother.

Cant believe spending trillions installing these spyboxes can be more cost effective than employing men with vans.
What are they spying on? If they (whoever they are)want to know how much gas and leccy I'm using then they only have to ask me or my supplier. Why would they want to know anyway? What could they gain from it?

South West Claret.
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by South West Claret. » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:22 pm

ClaretTony wrote:My gas meter box door has fallen off
Well put it back on again :D

tybfc
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by tybfc » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:25 pm

I get phoned constantly asking me to change to smart meters and they get the same response as PPI, Life Insurance, loft insulation phone calls and Jehovas Witness folk who come to my front door.

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Re: Smart Meter

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:29 pm

tybfc wrote:I get phoned constantly asking me to change to smart meters and they get the same response as PPI, Life Insurance, loft insulation phone calls and Jehovas Witness folk who come to my front door.
Spot on - and a lot of energy suppliers have tried to bully people into taking smart meters

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Re: Smart Meter

Post by deanothedino » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:31 pm

durhamclaret wrote:I tell em no as well, also it's another possible way of you being tied to the energy company as I'm informed that it can be difficult to change suppliers in the future cos they don't want another companies smart meter. I personally don't see any benefit in changing.
That's ********. It just means you may have to return to manually reading the meter
Leisure wrote:I've been contacted by my energy supplier saying that my meter's certification has expired and they want to now fit a smart meter. In the past when they've offered me one I've always refused, as I really don't see the benefits. (I'm perfectly capable of reading my meters and sending them the readings!). Does anyone know if this expired certification story is likely to be true or are they just trying to force me to get a smart meter? Also, what are people's opinions on smart meters?
It is a legal requirement for meters in the UK to be certified and a fixed expiry date is set when the meter is certified (between 10 and 25 years depending on the type I believe), so yes - you'll have to get it replaced and they'll likely only replace it with a smart meter.

As for opinion... it's a meter - can't get excited about it either way it tracks how much gas or electric you use just like the non-smart ones. The box ClaretTony refers to shoving in a drawer isn't the meter, it's just a display that can translate your usage into terms the layman can relate to.

ClaretTony
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:58 pm

deanothedino wrote:The box ClaretTony refers to shoving in a drawer isn't the meter, it's just a display that can translate your usage into terms the layman can relate to.
It is and it didn't work. No idea where it is now, might have even been thrown out when I was having some work done in the house.

tim_noone
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by tim_noone » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:59 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Don't be conned by the utilities they have been bribed by this Government to try and convince householders all over the Country that they need one and that they will give you this and that.

Don't fall for it like many have.
:D I Tend not to open the Door....it's Appointment only.

Leisure
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:21 pm

deanothedino wrote:That's ********. It just means you may have to return to manually reading the meter



It is a legal requirement for meters in the UK to be certified and a fixed expiry date is set when the meter is certified (between 10 and 25 years depending on the type I believe), so yes - you'll have to get it replaced and they'll likely only replace it with a smart meter.

As for opinion... it's a meter - can't get excited about it either way it tracks how much gas or electric you use just like the non-smart ones.
I'm perfectly capable of reading the meter monthly and submitting the figure online. How would so find out when the meter was certified and for how long? What are the implications of not agreeing to a meter change?

martin_p
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by martin_p » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:36 pm

If the government are giving me anything for free then I’m having it!

Fretters
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Fretters » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:55 pm

Leisure wrote:Just interested to know how it's actually saving you a lot of money?
Mine just made us more conscious of what we were spending really. I now know exactly what we're spending each day and it's made us more careful with leaving lights on, over-filling the kettle etc. (all basic common sense stuff, but when you have a screen showing the £s going up, it stops you getting lazy with it all.)

tim_noone
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by tim_noone » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:59 pm

martin_p wrote:If the government are giving me anything for free then I’m having it!
Only to Pay later... :roll:

tim_noone
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by tim_noone » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:05 pm

Leisure wrote:I'm perfectly capable of reading the meter monthly and submitting the figure online. How would so find out when the meter was certified and for how long? What are the implications of not agreeing to a meter change?
:lol: :lol: you only have one Life pete...enjoy it!
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Devils_Advocate
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:08 pm

The cost of moving all meters to Smart is being passed on to the consumer regardless of whether you allow them to install you a Smart meter. Infact the harder you make it for them the more it costs them and the more is passed on to customer bills so if your issue is about the hidden costs the best thing you could do is just let them come in and change it.

All meters have a lifespan and need to be replaced when it is coming to an end. The cheapest method to install a Smart meter is to do it at end of life as they would be changing the meter anyway. To change your meter just to make it Smart results in a stranding charge the supplier has to pay the meter owner as the meter still has life in it

The biggest benefit to the consumer is the eradication of estimated bills, especially around change of supply and change of tenancy. Again even if you provide readings a lot of customers dont and the result of estimated bills is customer debt and customer disputes and again this (huge) business cost ends up on all customers bills

Having a Smart meter does not impact your ability to change supply at all and once all customers are on the Industry shared Smart platform then things like changing supplier will be come much easier than it is today.

With regards any data from your meter the supplier is not allowed to share this with any other company (like a google for example) unless you give them explicit permission

Smart meters aren't this fancy thing to get excited for and aren't gonna change your lives but from an industry perspective when all meters are Smart the costs to serve in the utilities industry will reduce dramatically and this will lower bills or at least reduce the rate at which they are increasing.

My advice would be that it is really just a meter that makes things easier in a world that is needlessly complex and the best thing people could do is just let the company's change them with as little fuss as possible
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Sproggy
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Sproggy » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:09 pm

They collect usage information that the companies can monetise. It's for their benefit not yours.

Leisure
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:09 pm

Fretters wrote:Mine just made us more conscious of what we were spending really. I now know exactly what we're spending each day and it's made us more careful with leaving lights on, over-filling the kettle etc. (all basic common sense stuff, but when you have a screen showing the £s going up, it stops you getting lazy with it all.)
So you actually read the meter every day!

Devils_Advocate
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:10 pm

Sproggy wrote:They collect usage information that the companies can monetise. It's for their benefit not yours.
Nope you own that data and they have to have explicit permission from you to use it.

deanothedino
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by deanothedino » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:12 pm

Leisure wrote:I'm perfectly capable of reading the meter monthly and submitting the figure online. How would so find out when the meter was certified and for how long? What are the implications of not agreeing to a meter change?
Nobody said you weren't, which is exactly why switching suppliers when you have a smart meter isn't an issue. It just stops being smart, and reverts to being a normal meter with a digital screen.

There should be a sticker on your meter saying when it was certified. You can then find out in the The Meters (Certification) Regulations 1998 how long it would have been certified for

You can't not agree, the meter belongs to your energy company and if it is end-of-life then it needs to be changed. If you refuse I would imagine their only option is to cut off your supply. They may install a dumb meter if you request it or they may install a smart meter with the smart features disabled, you'd have to ask them.

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Re: Smart Meter

Post by deanothedino » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:16 pm

ClaretTony wrote:It is and it didn't work. No idea where it is now, might have even been thrown out when I was having some work done in the house.
Yep, they're mainly a gimmick.

Hipper
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Hipper » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:30 pm

ClaretTony wrote:My gas meter box door has fallen off
Some people hook them back on with cable ties. As I understand it, the meter box is your responsibility unless you can show that the Gas company damaged it.

Edit. Unless it's one of those with a horizontally opening door. There's film on youtube that shows how to repair them.

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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Sproggy » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:37 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Nope you own that data and they have to have explicit permission from you to use it.
There are ways to monetize it without selling it.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... ch-british" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Go look at Onzo's website.

Leisure
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:56 pm

Hipper wrote:Some people hook them back on with cable ties. As I understand it, the meter box is your responsibility unless you can show that the Gas company damaged it.

Edit. Unless it's one of those with a horizontally opening door. There's film on youtube that shows how to repair them.
Too late, Tony's thrown it out! :lol:

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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Darthlaw » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:05 pm

Had a smart meter installed when with British Gas about two years back. Came with one of those gadgets which allows you to see what energy is being used on a live basis, which was promptly chucked on a shelf in the basement.

Since, I’ve moved to Sainsbury’s energy as they were loads cheaper (yet supplied by British Gas) who still read the numbers remotely. moved again last year to Tonik energy. Which means I send in manual figures when they ask.

Can’t say it’s impacted either positively or negatively in the slightest.

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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Fretters » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:14 pm

Leisure wrote:So you actually read the meter every day!
It's not difficult, it's just on our kitchen top and I glance at it when near it! It shows gas and electric usage in pounds and pennies on the home screen.

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Re: Smart Meter

Post by spadesclaret » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:20 pm

We said, OK, come and fit a smart meter.

The man came and told us our signal wasn't strong enough, whatever that means, so no smart meter.

We are still being pestered to fit a smart meter. We just ignore. Somebody or something isn't very smart.

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Re: Smart Meter

Post by ClaretCliff » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:20 pm

The smart meter does not save electricity. In fact, it actually costs more electricity - that used to run the meter itself.

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Re: Smart Meter

Post by dougcollins » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:39 pm

Just keep refusing, they can't do anything.

I was sent a 'solicitor's letter' which got interesting, I threatened them with action and they offered me a payout.

Bonkers.

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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:15 pm

Sproggy wrote:There are ways to monetize it without selling it.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... ch-british" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Go look at Onzo's website.
Had a look and can't see anything. Looks like Onzo provide a tool for energy companies to better analyse the customer data they capture and tailor products to match customer needs. This goes on now anyhow but with Smart meters more insight is available. It sounds a positive to me that your energy company can try and match things like TOU tariffs and bundled products to your individual circumstances.

What is restricted is that the data cannot be used or sold to any 3rd party unless you consent.ive not been through the full website and have been out of the Smart game for 12 months so if things have changed and I've missed something I'd be genuinely interested for you to highlight where on their website this is

Rileybobs
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:06 pm

Weird how folk are so scared of change and progress. I can’t see how there are any negatives yet a number positives for all concerned. It’s the 21st century people, move with the times.

Fretters
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Fretters » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:24 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Weird how folk are so scared of change and progress. I can’t see how there are any negatives yet a number positives for all concerned. It’s the 21st century people, move with the times.
Lots of people round these parts still throw rocks at the moon.

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Re: Smart Meter

Post by South West Claret. » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm

People should know now that anything that begins with Smart is usually anything but.

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Re: Smart Meter

Post by dushanbe » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:32 pm

There are a few reasons to avoid having a smart meter, that I can see. Firstly it opens up the possibility of dynamic pricing in the future. So instead of having a flat rate unit cost for your electricity, providers could charge higher rates at peak times.

Secondly, smart meters have the ability to charge for ‘apparent power’, which is a significant cost that electricity companies currently have to stand as ordinary analogue meters can only read the relationship between voltage and current. It’s a technical subject but it means it’s worse for consumers.
Last edited by dushanbe on Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Paul Waine
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:33 pm

karatekid wrote:What are they spying on? If they (whoever they are)want to know how much gas and leccy I'm using then they only have to ask me or my supplier. Why would they want to know anyway? What could they gain from it?
Hi karatek, if you are inclined towards these sorts of things, then you gas/elec usage on a daily basis can tell someone when you are at home or when you are away - and your house is empty...

However, if you have alexa, as I understand it, the "box" will have already informed everyone of your absence...

I also understand that the "drugs squad" look for high elec usage to give them ideas about who is growing canabis....

Other than that, I wouldn't worry too much. :o

Chobulous
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Chobulous » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:36 am

Just a bit of info, the company that makes the vast majority of these meters is in the process of moving most of its production to Romania and the far east putting 300+ people out of work in Stockport and a shed load more in Peterborough. I was made redundant in Feb this year but luckily I had planned to retire anyway so I kept quiet and got a £20k retirement present, but a lot of others weren't so lucky.

Herts Clarets
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by Herts Clarets » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:13 am

Are the people installing these meters appropriately qualified? Gas Safe registered for gas and the equivalent for Electricity?

claretblue
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Re: Smart Meter

Post by claretblue » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:36 am

Chobulous wrote:so I kept quiet and got a £20k retirement present
I'll see you at the Twix counter on Saturday Chobulous! ;)

:D

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