BFC Profits

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ewanrob
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BFC Profits

Post by ewanrob » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:40 pm

Can anyone enlighten me what happens to the profits we make year on year...possibly 90 million in the last 4 years. This aint tied to the transfer market link or having a go at the board or any other agenda, I just wondered if that 90 million was sat in a bank somewhere getting 2% interest a year ?...

MACCA
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by MACCA » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:49 pm

Looks great if you ever want to sell, then the shareholders will receive great cash, great multiples on their initial outlay

If the club sold out for 100m, Mr Garkick would get around 50m. Not bad for someone who's worth is only 80m ( not in his bank )
Would mean hes nearly made as much in 6 years than he had in his lifetime, not bad for someone who hasn't actually put in any of his own money.

Great business man, and like most great business men money comes first, regardless of what football team you "support".

jtv
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by jtv » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:51 pm

MACCA wrote:......... not bad for someone who hasn't actually put in any of his own money..
Are you sure?

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:53 pm

MACCA wrote:not bad for someone who hasn't actually put in any of his own money
What do you think he used to buy his shareholding in the club - Scotch mist?
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MACCA
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by MACCA » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:54 pm

jtv wrote:Are you sure?

Look at the balance sheets since he took control.
There's no loans or cash injections from Mr Garkick...

He doesnt bank roll the club.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:55 pm

MACCA wrote:Look at the balance sheets since he took control.
There's no loans or cash injections from Mr Garkick...

He doesnt bank roll the club.
Can I ask again how you think he got his shares without putting money in?

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by MACCA » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:55 pm

ClaretTony wrote:What do you think he used to buy his shareholding in the club - Scotch mist?
Please read again.
the initial outlay bit, is what you seemed to have missed should i say "mist:

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:55 pm

Profit is not the same thing as cash.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by UpTheClaretsFCBK » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:56 pm

ClaretTony wrote:What do you think he used to buy his shareholding in the club - Scotch mist?
He purchased his shares off shareholders. He hasn’t actually invested any of his own money into developing the business.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:57 pm

MACCA wrote:Please read again.
the initial outlay bit, is what you seemed to have missed should i say "mist:
Then you can't say: "not bad for someone who hasn't actually put in any of his own money," because he quite simply has, and a hell of a lot more than anyone else.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by MACCA » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:57 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Profit is not the same thing as cash.
:o :roll:

Any other breaking news?

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by MACCA » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:58 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Then you can't say: "not bad for someone who hasn't actually put in any of his own money," because he quite simply has, and a hell of a lot more than anyone else.
Quite right, should have said after his initial outlay again to make it doubly clear.

He's laughing his c0ck off, and rightly so.
Great businessman, and long may he reign I say

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:58 pm

MACCA wrote::o :roll:

Any other breaking news?
The OP wondered if the profits were sitting in a bank account somewhere, giving the impression that he thought it was.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by joey13 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:00 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Then you can't say: "not bad for someone who hasn't actually put in any of his own money," because he quite simply has, and a hell of a lot more than anyone else.
And taken a hell of a lot more out in bonuses

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by TVC15 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:04 pm

joey13 wrote:And taken a hell of a lot more out in bonuses
Can you show me anywhere in the accounts where any of the directors has taken a salary, dividend, interest or as you put it “bonus”.

MACCA
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by MACCA » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:05 pm

Tall Paul wrote:The OP wondered if the profits were sitting in a bank account somewhere, giving the impression that he thought it was.
Ah yes I see, maybe my response was unwarranted, apologies.
Thought you were telling me something I were ( and presume most others ) aware of.

jtv
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by jtv » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:05 pm

joey13 wrote:And taken a hell of a lot more out in bonuses
Yes? How much?
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Rick_Muller » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:07 pm

you can tell the posters on here who dont understand finance, they think like my kids...

"but dad, you earn £30k/year, thats £2500/month - why cant you give me ONLY £200 for a pair of trainers..."

they dont get the fact that the £30k/year is subject to income tax/NI/pension etc; then I have to pay bills like mortgage/utilities/food etc; then there's running a car and the costs with that; then food; then after all that if I have any spare I might have some free for footy and the like. Yeah, of course son, here's £200 for some trainers...
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dsr
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by dsr » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:08 pm

ewanrob wrote:Can anyone enlighten me what happens to the profits we make year on year...possibly 90 million in the last 4 years. This aint tied to the transfer market link or having a go at the board or any other agenda, I just wondered if that 90 million was sat in a bank somewhere getting 2% interest a year ?...
It goes on transfer fees mostly. If we make £30m cash income and spend £30m on players, based on 4 year contracts, the accounts would show £22m profit but there wouldn't be any cash in the bank.

Back in the day, player purchases were written off in full in the accounts. This was a lot clearer and easier to understand, but doesn't fit the high-up accountants' view of accounts. Accounts, to them, must be logical to the nth degree, even if that makes them less clear. One of these days I might restate the accounts (in round numbers) based on the old way of doing things. I reckon it would be more helpful.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:09 pm

joey13 wrote:And taken a hell of a lot more out in bonuses
Has he really?

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:09 pm

I hope we haven't got 90 million in a bank

tim_noone
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by tim_noone » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:10 pm

jtv wrote:Yes? How much?
About 30 Bob a Week! :D
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Tall Paul
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:10 pm

dsr wrote:It goes on transfer fees mostly. If we make £30m cash income and spend £30m on players, based on 4 year contracts, the accounts would show £22m profit but there wouldn't be any cash in the bank.

Back in the day, player purchases were written off in full in the accounts. This was a lot clearer and easier to understand, but doesn't fit the high-up accountants' view of accounts. Accounts, to them, must be logical to the nth degree, even if that makes them less clear. One of these days I might restate the accounts (in round numbers) based on the old way of doing things. I reckon it would be more helpful.
Couldn't you just look at the cashflow statement instead?

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by TVC15 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:14 pm

Wow
Macca - I know you said that most people understand the difference between cash and profits - are you sure about this ? Do you ?
Based on what i’ve seen posted on this thread so far i’m not sure how many could understand how to get cash out of an ATM let alone read a set of accounts
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MACCA
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by MACCA » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:14 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:you can tell the posters on here who dont understand finance, they think like my kids...

"but dad, you earn £30k/year, thats £2500/month - why cant you give me ONLY £200 for a pair of trainers..."

they dont get the fact that the £30k/year is subject to income tax/NI/pension etc; then I have to pay bills like mortgage/utilities/food etc; then there's running a car and the costs with that; then food; then after all that if I have any spare I might have some free for footy and the like. Yeah, of course son, here's £200 for some trainers...
It is exactly like that.....

Or think of it like you not earning it, you get given it.
Bit tight of you to be given a big lump sum and keep squirreling it away hoping that one day you make 10 fold because you've saved someone else's money, to make yourself more money.
Looks good

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:16 pm

joey13 wrote:And taken a hell of a lot more out in bonuses
A bold statement and should be backed up with figures, evidence etc. Can you please show me?
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:19 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:I hope we haven't got 90 million in a bank
I'm certain we haven't

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by joey13 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:26 pm

Leisure wrote:A bold statement and should be backed up with figures, evidence etc. Can you please show me?
I see that has woken up the sycophants

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by TVC15 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:27 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I'm certain we haven't
Think it was about £30m in the Bank from memory in the last accounts - but as per above cash and profits are very different things

ewanrob
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by ewanrob » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:27 pm

Crikey, it was only a tentative enquiry...talking about takeovers to a mate in my office, I said I bet we are an attractive proposition what with no debt, some decent players and money in the bank.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:28 pm

joey13 wrote:I see that has woken up the sycophants
Maybe they wouldn’t be so sycophantic if you could provide some evidence to back up your claim.

Let me guess, Dean Hoyle told you.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by ewanrob » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:29 pm

TVC15 wrote:Think it was about £30m in the Bank from memory in the last accounts - but as per above cash and profits are very different things
30m Not bad for a current account, what do we have in the Building society
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:31 pm

Reading some replies on here, it is a a good job being self employed isn't suitable for everyone.

Some people are much safer being told what their wage will be each week.
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by SGr » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:33 pm

£24m in the bank was the figure Mike Garlick quoted a few months ago, believe it was confirmed by the release of the accounts.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by MACCA » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:50 pm

TVC15 wrote:Wow
Macca - I know you said that most people understand the difference between cash and profits - are you sure about this ? Do you ?
Based on what i’ve seen posted on this thread so far i’m not sure how many could understand how to get cash out of an ATM let alone read a set of accounts
Wow

You really think people dont understand how to get their cash out of a cash point?

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by MACCA » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:52 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Reading some replies on here, it is a a good job being self employed isn't suitable for everyone.

Some people are much safer being told what their wage will be each week.
I'm not even sure that's the safest way if they can't use a cash point.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by LeadBelly » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:53 pm

I see that has woken up the sycophants
Nothing to do with being sycophantic, it's almost incomprehensible that people can still insinuate that our directors haven't put money in/take out large benefits/bonuses.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by joey13 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:53 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Maybe they wouldn’t be so sycophantic if you could provide some evidence to back up your claim.

Let me guess, Dean Hoyle told you.
It was hardly a secret directors paid themselves a bonus on loans they made to the club

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Jel » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:58 pm

I have often thought about the amount of tax we pay. Not being an accountant or really understanding these issues, I may not have the right idea.
However if for example we would have a tax bill of say £10 million, would it not be better to spend more on the club, players or infrastructure. By reducing profit surely we will then give less to the taxman and have some benefits without it actually costing anything.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:00 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I'm certain we haven't
whatever we have it better not be in a bank with those epic interest rates !!!!

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:07 pm

joey13 wrote:It was hardly a secret directors paid themselves a bonus on loans they made to the club
Proof? Maybe you're getting bonus mixed up with interest.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by tim_noone » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:10 pm

Leisure wrote:Proof? Maybe you're getting bonus mixed up with interest.
You've enough on your plate sorting the Leccy out!

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by ewanrob » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:13 pm

ok, so what constitutes a profit.

Sky + commercial + season tickets + sponsorship = £130 million (guess)
Wages £65 million (guess)
other outgoings - Ground, training complex. N.I = £10 million
Players in 40 £ million incl wages
Player out £10 million

leaves £25 million, is that profit or cash in the bank...say we do the same 4 years running £100mm profit / cash in the bank


I'm clearly missing something & shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an ATM !!

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Rick_Muller » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:15 pm

ewanrob wrote:ok, so what constitutes a profit.

Sky + commercial + season tickets + sponsorship = £130 million (guess)
Wages £65 million (guess)
other outgoings - Ground, training complex. N.I = £10 million
Players in 40 £ million incl wages
Player out £10 million

leaves £25 million, is that profit or cash in the bank...say we do the same 4 years running £100mm profit / cash in the bank


I'm clearly missing something & shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an ATM !!
you're guessing and missing out other expenses. As stated above, we do have cash in the bank, but it's not £100M

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by TVC15 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:15 pm

joey13 wrote:It was hardly a secret directors paid themselves a bonus on loans they made to the club
No they didn’t - but hey ho don’t let the actual facts get in the way of your opinion....

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Bosscat » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:22 pm

joey13 wrote:It was hardly a secret directors paid themselves a bonus on loans they made to the club
Jesus and you accuse the Yanks of making up the Moon Landings ....
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by TVC15 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:22 pm

ewanrob wrote:ok, so what constitutes a profit.

Sky + commercial + season tickets + sponsorship = £130 million (guess)
Wages £65 million (guess)
other outgoings - Ground, training complex. N.I = £10 million
Players in 40 £ million incl wages
Player out £10 million

leaves £25 million, is that profit or cash in the bank...say we do the same 4 years running £100mm profit / cash in the bank


I'm clearly missing something & shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an ATM !!

You are missing quite a lot of things unfortunately.

It would be a very long answer to explain the difference between a balance sheet and a profit and loss account.

But cash in the bank is more about cash flow - if you got paid all the money owed to you and didn’t both paying any of the people you owe money to - you’d have a healthy cash bank balance...it doesn’t necessarily mean you are making a profit.
Your cash at the bank basically represents your cash flow position at that point in time. It doesn’t represent the value of your business as you may a lot more money than is owed to you.

Profit is in basic terms all your income less all your expenses - it’s more complicated than that in terms of net profit, gross profit, profit after tax, dividends etc but at the most basic level that’s what it is.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by joey13 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:22 pm

Leisure wrote:Proof? Maybe you're getting bonus mixed up with interest.
You mean a percentage determined by the very people who made the loans , ok then you call it interest , I call it bonus

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:23 pm

joey13 wrote:It was hardly a secret directors paid themselves a bonus on loans they made to the club
You’ve had well over an hour since you were asked for some evidence. I presume this is the best you can come up with?

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by joey13 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:24 pm

Bosscat wrote:Jesus and you accuse the Yanks of making up the Moon Landings ....
Very good , I like that , have you found any indestructible gold tin foil yet :lol:

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