BFC Profits

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joey13
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by joey13 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:27 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:You’ve had well over an hour since you were asked for some evidence. I presume this is the best you can come up with?
53 minutes actually, but then I have a life off this messageboard unlike some :lol:

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Bosscat » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:29 pm

joey13 wrote:Very good , I like that , have you found any indestructible gold tin foil yet :lol:
No... but it would make you a good hat to stop the voices that make you talk sh*t
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South West Claret.
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by South West Claret. » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:30 pm

They surely don't just leave the money on deposit do they where do they actually invest it to make more money, does anyone now here?

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by joey13 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:33 pm

Bosscat wrote:No... but it would make you a good hat to stop the voices that make you talk sh*t
No need for that
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Leisure
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:36 pm

joey13 wrote:You mean a percentage determined by the very people who made the loans , ok then you call it interest , I call it bonus
So you think that the Directors just decided what interest they wanted and then signed the agreement for both themselves and the club! Seeing as you seem to be in the know on this issue, please can you tell me what the interest rate was? Hopefully it was high enough to justify them lending the money with no guarantee of getting it back if the club went bust!

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:40 pm

joey13 wrote:53 minutes actually, but then I have a life off this messageboard unlike some :lol:
Calculating time is another of your weak areas then.
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by joey13 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:40 pm

Leisure wrote:So you think that the Directors just decided what interest they wanted and then signed the agreement for both themselves and the club! Seeing as you seem to be in the know on this issue, please can you tell me what the interest rate was? Hopefully it was high enough to justify them lending the money with no guarantee of getting it back if the club went bust!
Why not ask them , oh no sycophants don’t do that

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by joey13 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:43 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Calculating time is another of your weak areas then.
Original post 3.00pm , next post 3.53pm = 53 minutes
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by BOYSIE31 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:47 pm

Leisure wrote:A bold statement and should be backed up with figures, evidence etc. Can you please show me?
Do you have short memories when they all had loans against the club and took back a hell of a lot in interest - thought so

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:47 pm

joey13 wrote:Why not ask them , oh no sycophants don’t do that
Because you're making these statements/allegations and you should be able to back them up. Also, love to know just how you consider that I'm sycophantic? :lol:
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Clarets4me » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:50 pm

On the last published figures, Burnley FC had £ 34,412,000 ( close of business 30th June 2018 ) held in cash.

The accounts also confirm that neither the Chairman, or any Director received a salary or dividend in that year nor any that I can find going back to 2008/09.

During our spells in the Championship, various Directors have lent the Club funds at a usual rate of 6.5% p.a. From what I can determine, some of their associated Companies may have issued fixed rate loan notes to the Club at a rate of 5%, or alternatively, other loans were mentioned, secured on future revenues, at varying rates of between 10-11% p.a. These were repaid during the 2014/15 season, with mention of " Interest & Bonus " payments in that years accounts. From what I can see, there are have been no Directors loans etc, listed as outstanding since.

In summary, the Directors put in their own money when it was required, and received an interest rate higher than they would get at the Bank, but Burnley FC borrowed it at a lower rate than they could get commercially. They've now repaid the funds in full, a good deal for both parties.

Contrast this to Manchester United, which of course is a much bigger beast. In the last 13 years, they've paid out £786m in Interest on the money the Glazers borrowed to buy the Club, and since 2013, £ 75m in Director's fees, and a further £78m in Dividends to the shareholders ...

Food for thought ?
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:51 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:Do you have short memories when they all had loans against the club and took back a hell of a lot in interest - thought so
I wouldn't expect anyone to take the huge risk of lending a football club money without there being some incentive. btw just how much interest was it and how much did they lend?

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by creepingdeath » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:55 pm

Leisure wrote:Because you're making these statements/allegations and you should be able to back them up. Also, love to know just how you consider that I'm sycophantic? :lol:

It’s the new happy clapper
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:55 pm

joey13 wrote:Original post 3.00pm , next post 3.53pm = 53 minutes
Original post: 3.00
Time I pointed out you’d yet to provide any evidence: 4.23

I’ll let you work it out for yourself.

Oh, and it’s now nearly two hours.
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by paulatky » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:07 pm

Joey 13 the loans were subject to a commercial rate of interest” not a bonus”
If you said what you have said here on a Blackpool fans board you would now have a libel claim against you.
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aggi
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by aggi » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:17 pm

dsr wrote:It goes on transfer fees mostly. If we make £30m cash income and spend £30m on players, based on 4 year contracts, the accounts would show £22m profit but there wouldn't be any cash in the bank.

Back in the day, player purchases were written off in full in the accounts. This was a lot clearer and easier to understand, but doesn't fit the high-up accountants' view of accounts. Accounts, to them, must be logical to the nth degree, even if that makes them less clear. One of these days I might restate the accounts (in round numbers) based on the old way of doing things. I reckon it would be more helpful.
The vast majority of transfer deals are in instalments nowadays. Plenty are even on pretty long terms like four years.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Bosscat » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:18 pm

Leisure wrote:Because you're making these statements/allegations and you should be able to back them up. Also, love to know just how you consider that I'm sycophantic? :lol:
I think he doesn't quite understand what it means Leisure m8 :lol: :lol:

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Clarets4me » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:21 pm

Leisure wrote:I wouldn't expect anyone to take the huge risk of lending a football club money without there being some incentive. btw just how much interest was it and how much did they lend?
The " Directors and other Loans " were stated as £7,934,000 as at 30th June 2014, they stood at nil on 30th June 2015. Hence, we Know they were repaid during that season.

The June 2015 accounts list interest and bonus payments totalling £1,252,597, that were paid to 5 directors ...

Mike Garlick £ 476,989
John Ban. £ 299,536
Barry Kilby £ 193,554
Brian Nelson £ 33,358
Terry Crabb £ 249,160

What we don't know is how much each individual or their associated entities lent to the Club, and over how long. We also do not know what of the above 5 amounts consisted of interest, and how much was " bonus " ...

Frankly, at £ 1.25 m, I don't care either, considering what my club has achieved under this Board of Directors & Manager !

UTC !! :D
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by aggi » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:22 pm

Jel wrote:I have often thought about the amount of tax we pay. Not being an accountant or really understanding these issues, I may not have the right idea.
However if for example we would have a tax bill of say £10 million, would it not be better to spend more on the club, players or infrastructure. By reducing profit surely we will then give less to the taxman and have some benefits without it actually costing anything.
True. We paid a hefty tax bill last year due to our high profit.

However, it's quite clear that our current board aren't going to hugely subsidise us if we go down (personally I have no issue with that, I'm happy with us being self-financing and I'm not sure they have the funds to do so anyway). As such we need to build up a surplus for when we do go down which means recording large profits and having to pay the tax that comes with it.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by AndyClaret » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:40 pm

aggi wrote:True. We paid a hefty tax bill last year due to our high profit.

However, it's quite clear that our current board aren't going to hugely subsidise us if we go down (personally I have no issue with that, I'm happy with us being self-financing and I'm not sure they have the funds to do so anyway). As such we need to build up a surplus for when we do go down which means recording large profits and having to pay the tax that comes with it.
Paying tax is a waste of money, make small profit, pay no tax.
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Bosscat » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:42 pm

Clarets4me wrote:The " Directors and other Loans " were stated as £7,934,000 as at 30th June 2014, they stood at nil on 30th June 2015. Hence, we Know they were repaid during that season.

The June 2015 accounts list interest and bonus payments totalling £1,252,597, that were paid to 5 directors ...

Mike Garlick £ 476,989
John Ban. £ 299,536
Barry Kilby £ 193,554
Brian Nelson £ 33,358
Terry Crabb £ 249,160

What we don't know is how much each individual or their associated entities lent to the Club, and over how long. We also do not know what of the above 5 amounts consisted of interest, and how much was " bonus " ...

Frankly, at £ 1.25 m, I don't care either, considering what my club has achieved under this Board of Directors & Manager !

UTC !! :D
Cheap at 1/2 the price.

Look at other Northwest Clubs and see what a heap of pain they're are either in (or have been in)

Come on you Clarets

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by BOYSIE31 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:45 pm

Clarets4me wrote:The " Directors and other Loans " were stated as £7,934,000 as at 30th June 2014, they stood at nil on 30th June 2015. Hence, we Know they were repaid during that season.

The June 2015 accounts list interest and bonus payments totalling £1,252,597, that were paid to 5 directors ...

Mike Garlick £ 476,989
John Ban. £ 299,536
Barry Kilby £ 193,554
Brian Nelson £ 33,358
Terry Crabb £ 249,160

What we don't know is how much each individual or their associated entities lent to the Club, and over how long. We also do not know what of the above 5 amounts consisted of interest, and how much was " bonus " ...

Frankly, at £ 1.25 m, I don't care either, considering what my club has achieved under this Board of Directors & Manager !

UTC !! :D
I agree but don't go on about them all for the club - they all made an awful lot of money out of it - so tell me why did they need interest adding ??

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by jtv » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:47 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:I agree but don't go on about them all for the club - they all made an awful lot of money out of it - so tell me why did they need interest adding ??
Perhaps because you weren't around then to make the interest-free loans yourself?
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:47 pm

Bosscat wrote:I think he doesn't quite understand what it means Leisure m8 :lol: :lol:
Well I didn't either! :lol:
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:49 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:I agree but don't go on about them all for the club - they all made an awful lot of money out of it - so tell me why did they need interest adding ??
Can you tell me why interest shouldn't be added to a loan, especially loans which might not be repaid? How much did you offer to loan to the club?
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:55 pm

Clarets4me wrote:The " Directors and other Loans " were stated as £7,934,000 as at 30th June 2014, they stood at nil on 30th June 2015. Hence, we Know they were repaid during that season.

The June 2015 accounts list interest and bonus payments totalling £1,252,597, that were paid to 5 directors ...

Mike Garlick £ 476,989
John Ban. £ 299,536
Barry Kilby £ 193,554
Brian Nelson £ 33,358
Terry Crabb £ 249,160

What we don't know is how much each individual or their associated entities lent to the Club, and over how long. We also do not know what of the above 5 amounts consisted of interest, and how much was " bonus " ...

Frankly, at £ 1.25 m, I don't care either, considering what my club has achieved under this Board of Directors & Manager !

UTC !! :D

am I right in thinking that is accrued interest over the period of the loan - i.e. no payment taken whatsoever until we got to the prem

As to the OP - it has been apparent for a number of years that many on here don't understand the financials and especially the difference between book profit and actual cash - well done for asking and seeking to learn.

Some of the other stuff is up there with those who think the government should have no trouble finding money as they can just print some more! it is amazing how many times I have heard that in Burnley

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by mybloodisclaret » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:56 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:I agree but don't go on about them all for the club - they all made an awful lot of money out of it - so tell me why did they need interest adding ??
At a guess to compensate the risk of the loan?
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Winstonswhite » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:03 pm

Bloody hell we have this every year.

The directors are fantastic people, but after the initial purchase of shares and loans they made (which was paid back at a fantastic rate of interest), they’ve put no money into the club.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by IanMcL » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:17 pm

I thought all the profit was invested in powder and kept in a very large, dry cupboard, just in case it may one day be needed.
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:19 pm

Winstonswhite wrote:Bloody hell we have this every year.

The directors are fantastic people, but after the initial purchase of shares and loans they made (which was paid back at a fantastic rate of interest), they’ve put no money into the club.
What amount on money do you obviously feel that they should be putting in and why does the club need this money?

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by LoveCurryPies » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:23 pm

As a fan we should look at what the Club does with it’s money.

Buying Turf Moor back was massive.

Investing in Gawthorpe training facilities was a major investment and will benefit every single player.

The corner stands are currently being developed and will improve the match facilities for the wheel chair users and others.

The costs of buying players and their wages are considerable.

We are starting the fourth consecutive year in the Premier League. Personally I think given the size of the town, we should probably be a Championship Club. However, the size of the heart of the Club and the determination of players, manager, training staff, owners and board has resulted in us outperforming most peoples expectations.

The Club is recognised has financially sound, stable and with considerable resources for the future. So many clubs are not.

The season ticket prices have been held year after year, and we all benefit from that.

I’m guessing criticisms are because we haven’t made any massive signings. Personally I think we’ve got a pretty good team and united one.

Let’s look forward to Saturday!
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by creepingdeath » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:24 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:As a fan we should look at what the Club does with it’s money.

Buying Turf Moor back was massive.

Investing in Gawthorpe training facilities was a major investment and will benefit every single player.

The corner stands are currently being developed and will improve the match facilities for the wheel chair users and others.

The costs of buying players and their wages are considerable.

We are starting the fourth consecutive year in the Premier League. Personally I think given the size of the town, we should probably be a Championship Club. However, the size of the heart of the Club and the determination of players, manager, training staff, owners and board has resulted in us outperforming most peoples expectations.

The Club is recognised has financially sound, stable and with considerable resources for the future. So many clubs are not.

The season ticket prices have been held year after year, and we all benefit from that.

I’m guessing criticisms are because we haven’t made any massive signings. Personally I think we’ve got a pretty good team and united one.

Let’s look forward to Saturday!

Sycophantic happy clapper :lol:
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Clarets4me » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:29 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:I agree but don't go on about them all for the club - they all made an awful lot of money out of it - so tell me why did they need interest adding ??
They may be sitting on a " paper " profit, but they've made nothing until there's a sale of the Club. Selling shares in Burnley FC Holdings is not like selling 500 Lloyds Bank or United Utilities shares, you can't just go on-line and sell them .....

The level of interest you pay is usually dependent on the level of risk you represent to the lender, the rates the director's were paid were less than the rate that the Club would have obtained on the Commercial markets ... so no problem ...
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Clarets4me » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:32 pm

IanMcL wrote:I thought all the profit was invested in powder and kept in a very large, dry cupboard, just in case it may one day be needed.
Have you been reading your " Little Red book of Corbynomics " again, Ian ?? ;)

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by aggi » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:39 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Paying tax is a waste of money, make small profit, pay no tax.
Which is fine until we get relegated and have no money.
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:41 pm

Clarets4me wrote:They may be sitting on a " paper " profit, but they've made nothing until there's a sale of the Club. Selling shares in Burnley FC Holdings is not like selling 500 Lloyds Bank or United Utilities shares, you can't just go on-line and sell them .....

The level of interest you pay is usually dependent on the level of risk you represent to the lender, the rates the director's were paid were less than the rate that the Club would have obtained on the Commercial markets ... so no problem ...
Agree but it looks like it's still a problem to some people, who obviously appear to think that the Directors (who take no payment from the club for the work/time that they put in) should have been prepared to lend the club money, without any guarantee of getting repaid, and not apply any rate of interest on those loans. I'm surprised that they haven't objected to the loans actually having been repaid at all.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by joey13 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:46 pm

Do the directors even pay for season tickets?

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by No Ney Never » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:49 pm

ewanrob wrote:Can anyone enlighten me what happens to the profits we make year on year...possibly 90 million in the last 4 years. This aint tied to the transfer market link or having a go at the board or any other agenda, I just wondered if that 90 million was sat in a bank somewhere getting 2% interest a year ?...
Depends on which profits you are enquiring about; pre tax profit, post tax profit, operating profit, profit before player trading, profit after player trading, etc.?

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:49 pm

joey13 wrote:Do the directors even pay for season tickets?
Give it a rest!
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by joey13 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:51 pm

Leisure wrote:Give it a rest!
Why , you’re the one who thinks the sun shines out of their collective backsides
Do they or don’t they ?

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by No Ney Never » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:52 pm

joey13 wrote:Do the directors even pay for season tickets?
You've got to the point where people are wondering if you are on a wind up or a complete balloon. :?:
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by AndyClaret » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:53 pm

aggi wrote:Which is fine until we get relegated and have no money.
we have built up a nice little slush fund now.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by jtv » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:53 pm

joey13 wrote:Why , you’re the one who thinks the sun shines out of their collective backsides
Do they or don’t they ?
You can always become a director if its a free season ticket that you are after i guess.
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by TVC15 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:53 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Paying tax is a waste of money, make small profit, pay no tax.
How would you suggest we do that without increasing future operating costs ?
Clearly the reason we are deciding to build up our profit reserves is to mitigate the risk and impact of relegation. It’s ok building in relegation clauses into players contracts but as we have shown the last 2 times we got relegated we want to try and back the manager to go back up.

Whilst from the face of it I think we have room for manoeuvre to spend more than we are recently and i know Royboyclaret who is close to these things also does I accept that I do not know exactly what our cost position will be (mainly in terms of wages) if we got relegated.
Given the very high likelihood that we will be relegated I would hope that the prudence we are showing now benefits us when we go down - rather than what has happened with the mass player sell offs at the likes of Hull, Swansea and other clubs who did not accumulate the profit reserves we have.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Leisure » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:55 pm

joey13 wrote:Why , you’re the one who thinks the sun shines out of their collective backsides
Do they or don’t they ?
You do talk some bo**ocks! I've no idea. I would hope that they don't but if they do I hope that they pay for them out of the interest they got! :lol:
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Clarets4me
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Clarets4me » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:59 pm

joey13 wrote:Why , you’re the one who thinks the sun shines out of their collective backsides
Do they or don’t they ?
I suspect the Club doesn't charge them for season tickets, in return for them not charging the Club for their time and business expertise, in helping run it ! Seems fair !
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aggi
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by aggi » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:12 pm

AndyClaret wrote:we have built up a nice little slush fund now.
That's true, but we did that by recording high profits and incurring the tax that comes with it.

AndyClaret
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by AndyClaret » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:19 pm

aggi wrote:That's true, but we did that by recording high profits and incurring the tax that comes with it.
First few years were offset against previous years losses.

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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Damo » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:34 pm

I honestly dont know why anyone bothers to try and explain to some of these clowns.
Just ignore them and they will clear off tofacebook to make up nonsense with the clarets turf reprobates

*edit due to an offensive word, and not wanting to sound like an alcoholic, ex school teacher with high blood pressure
Last edited by Damo on Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Caballo
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Re: BFC Profits

Post by Caballo » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:01 pm

joey13 wrote:Do the directors even pay for season tickets?

F-ing brilliant, got to be the funniest thing I've read on here in an age. That's either world class trolling or you're a weapons grade bellend.

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