Three defenders on the bench Sat

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jojomk1
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Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby jojomk1 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:59 pm

And only one striker
Didn't see any news about Vydra being injured so presume this was another subtle way of SD pushing him out of the door
Still two weeks before the window finishes in some parts of europe, so foreign teams could still come in for him and we would then be left with only three recognised front men
Problem is, if one of the other strikers gets injured you would have thought he has to come into the match day squad and would he be willing to give his all to the cause?
If this situation continues would still like to see an extra midfielder (DD) on the bench rather than Long

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby jdrobbo » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:24 pm

If things were ‘sound’ with Vydra I have absolutely no doubt that the bench would’ve looked different in terms of the balance.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby Colburn_Claret » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:46 pm

It might be that Tarks wasnt 100%, he had sat out the previous game. I know its against our normal where anyone not 100% is out for 6 weeks :lol:

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby ClaretTony » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:01 pm

we were trying to pick the team and subs on Saturday and I said if we had 18 elsewhere there would be no sign of Vydra. Whatever the problem, seeing Wells get on rather than him in the two home friendlies suggested he won’t be featuring much if at all this season.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby jdrobbo » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:02 pm

Good point

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby jrgbfc » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:13 pm

Pretty sure naming 2 centre backs instead of Vydra was Dyche's not so subtle way of letting him know he won't feature this season. We should be looking to get him off the wage bill in January and give the lad a break.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby TheFamilyCat » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:28 pm

jrgbfc wrote:Pretty sure naming 2 centre backs instead of Vydra was Dyche's not so subtle way of letting him know he won't feature this season. We should be looking to get him off the wage bill in January and give the lad a break.


I hope SD wouldn’t resort to giving subtle hints. I’d like to think he’d be honest with the lad and tell him where he stands.
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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby South West Claret. » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:31 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:I hope SD wouldn’t resort to giving subtle hints. I’d like to think he’d be honest with the lad and tell him where he stands.


I agree this needs to come to some sort of conclusion for the player and the club.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby Dy1geo » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:38 pm

I said jokingly in another thread that Vydra could become our “Winston Bogarde” he must be on around £40,000 a week and quite simply put he holds the best hand. He could make it awkward and literally just go through the motions if he wanted too for the rest of his contract.
It is obvious he is not in Dyche’s plans and we will have to take the financial hit on him if he is prepared to leave, to enable Dyche to get a replacement this time he “wants”.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby FactualFrank » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:41 pm

jrgbfc wrote:Pretty sure naming 2 centre backs instead of Vydra was Dyche's not so subtle way of letting him know he won't feature this season. We should be looking to get him off the wage bill in January and give the lad a break.


Not sure about all season.

If he put a transfer request in, it's probably short term punishment, to remind him who's the boss. I think he'll make the bench soon though.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby jrgbfc » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:42 pm

I agree the current situation isn't good for anyone. Having an unhappy player around the squad can't be good and he's costing us between 30 and 40 grand a week in wages, that essentially we're just flushing down the toilet.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby jojomk1 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:11 pm

If he has put a transfer request in, it shows he wants to play football and is prepared to give up a good wage from BFC to do so (unlike Winston Bogarde)
We will probably never know who ultimately authorised this signing but the fact that we allow Wells to go out and still don't put him on the bench is a bit weird
Maybe SD is trying to show who is the boss but he needs to be careful this does not backfire on him if injuries take their toll early in the season.
Defour seems to get all the verbal/emotional support whilst not available and this guy is pretty much ostracised when wanting to play
So it seems

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby ksrclaret » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:17 pm

It needs resolving before the window shuts for foreign teams at the end of August. It's not good for the team to have a player with them who everyone knows isn't liked by the manager for whatever reason. It must create an awkwardness on the training ground and in the dressing room.

I do feel desperately sorry for the lad. I accept as fans we don't know what's gone on, but from the outside looking in he doesn't seem the 'bad apple' type who's trying form cliques in the dressing room. I can only assume the interviews Vydra gave earlier last season did not go down well with Dyche.

Whatever has gone on, the way he's been treated has been pretty poorly. Bringing him on at times last season with only stoppage time to go was not one of the good examples of Dyche's management.

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No Ney Never
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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby No Ney Never » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:17 pm

Is he simply not good enough or has he done something to pss Dyche off?

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MACCA
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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby MACCA » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:24 pm

No Ney Never wrote:Is he simply not good enough or has he done something to pss Dyche off?


The latter

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby ClaretAndJew » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:26 pm

You don't become the Championship top scorer then become crap the season later.

It's a strange state of affairs.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby ClaretTony » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:27 pm

No Ney Never wrote:Is he simply not good enough or has he done something to pss Dyche off?


From what I've seen of him I'd say it's that he's not good enough. A couple of decent cameos and a good performance against Huddersfield but nothing much else.

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Steve-Harpers-perm
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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:29 pm

MACCA wrote:The latter


Such as?

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby ksrclaret » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:32 pm

ClaretTony wrote:From what I've seen of him I'd say it's that he's not good enough. A couple of decent cameos and a good performance against Huddersfield but nothing much else.


Nahki Wells clearly wasn't good enough. Yet he was often found on the bench alongside another striker.

For Vydra to not even make the 18 anymore, there simply must be something else going on.

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Burnley1989
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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby Burnley1989 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:40 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Not sure about all season.

If he put a transfer request in, it's probably short term punishment, to remind him who's the boss. I think he'll make the bench soon though.



If he puts in a transfer request Im pretty sure he loses his signing on fee which is why very few players say in the open that they want to leave. Obviously the big name players just get the money back off their new club

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FCBurnley
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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby FCBurnley » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:40 pm

Once Drinkwater and Taylor are fit there is going to be a lot of tough competition to make the 18. Some good players are going to miss out. I think the inclusion of Long and Gibson were more due to a slight doubt on Tarks and having no obvious cover for Pieters

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby ClaretTony » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:41 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Nahki Wells clearly wasn't good enough. Yet he was often found on the bench alongside another striker.

For Vydra to not even make the 18 anymore, there simply must be something else going on.


I would suspect Vydra was on the bench much more often in his first season at Burnley than Wells was in his

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby ClaretTony » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:42 pm

FCBurnley wrote:Once Drinkwater and Taylor are fit there is going to be a lot of tough competition to make the 18. Some good players are going to miss out. I think the inclusion of Long and Gibson were more due to a slight doubt on Tarks and having no obvious cover for Pieters


I would think that potentially had something to do with it - Tarky was definitely a doubt.

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Leisure
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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby Leisure » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:17 pm

No Ney Never wrote:Is he simply not good enough or has he done something to pss Dyche off?


Posibly/probably both.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby IanMcL » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:26 pm

If I was him, I would be fed up and asking for game time.

Perhaps he will be off to Europe and a Euro striker in to replace him.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby jojomk1 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:27 pm

Where do we get a euro striker in when our window is shut?

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby KRBFC » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:28 pm

I think Vydra looks a decent player, offers us something different and hasn’t been given a real chance. Really strange signing for a lot of money, is he a Dyche signing? Did Dyche not manage him at Watford? I assume Dyche has seen him play before spending £10M on him?

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby jojomk1 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:40 pm

Given the role SD has within the club as a whole, I can't see this signing being done in the first place without his agreement. What did he see then which he clearly doesn't see now (due diligence applies to players as well as financials).
I get that all managers have fallouts with players and then want to move them on asap but finding buyers is not always easy (just look at Sanchez/ManUtd)
SD has certainly got most things right but the Vydra/Wells scenarios have cost the club well in excess of £20m (fees and wages) and we seem to have only three strikers now available to play

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby MACCA » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:44 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Such as?


Talks too much in the media about the manager and his team mates, and is a bit of a sulky character although the latter can happen if he feels he's not getting a fair crack at the whip.

Also he wasn't SD preferred option, so maybe that also is something to do with the lack of opportunities, and then the cycle all starts again.

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boatshed bill
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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby boatshed bill » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:03 pm

I think it's pretty obvious that whatever he might offer isn't what our manager wants. Bye bye ASAP

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:45 pm

Maybe he’s just not good enough for top flight football. Will be his second failed attempt.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby ClaretTony » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:51 pm

IanMcL wrote:If I was him, I would be fed up and asking for game time.

Perhaps he will be off to Europe and a Euro striker in to replace him.


He can go to Europe but we can’t replace him until the next window

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby Jakubclaret » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:55 pm

jojomk1 wrote:Where do we get a euro striker in when our window is shut?


Free agents/out of contract players.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby IanMcL » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:44 pm

Balotelli signed up yet?

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Spike
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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby Spike » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:29 pm

Dyche knows best

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Dark Cloud
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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby Dark Cloud » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:50 pm

I think we should fill our bench entirely with defenders, start as we mean to go on and and nail our colours firmly to the mast! :)

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby Roosterbooster » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:15 pm

I feel for Vydra. Clearly wants game time, and works his socks off (maybe even tries too hard) when he gets the chance. I imagine the situation started as a subtle nod from SD to the board that they should have offered more for J-Rod last season. And Vydra was the victim. He looked very, very good in the Championship, and its difficult to think of many who are that good, failing to make the step up. Bamford is the obvious one. But I dont think it is fair to criticise Vydra. His opportunities have been so slim, compared the the opportunities Wood got when he was absolutely awful for so, so long. The difference is, SD wanted Wood, he didn't want Vydra.
I'd like him to stay and play. But if he doesnt, I'd like him to get the chance elsewhere ASAP. Its not fair on him.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:26 pm

Has 1 player ever been in such demand to play as much as Vydra.

He isn't as good as Barnes, Wood or Jay. Why don't we have these constant threads for Kevin Long who has waited even longer than Vydra has for a chance, do we have to feel for Hendrick if he no longer gets a start ?

Think I will stick with Dyche's opinion of who plays

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:38 pm

Roosterbooster wrote:I feel for Vydra. Clearly wants game time, and works his socks off (maybe even tries too hard) when he gets the chance. I imagine the situation started as a subtle nod from SD to the board that they should have offered more for J-Rod last season. And Vydra was the victim. He looked very, very good in the Championship, and its difficult to think of many who are that good, failing to make the step up. Bamford is the obvious one. But I dont think it is fair to criticise Vydra. His opportunities have been so slim, compared the the opportunities Wood got when he was absolutely awful for so, so long. The difference is, SD wanted Wood, he didn't want Vydra.
I'd like him to stay and play. But if he doesnt, I'd like him to get the chance elsewhere ASAP. Its not fair on him.


As i posted up the thread this is his second attempt at making it in the top flight. He’s the 4th best out of our current 4 strikers.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby Hibsclaret » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:05 pm

I think people fail to grasp the reality of the level we play at now means there are obviously some examples of players disappearing through the cracks and essentially not getting a game.

You only have to look at the two sets of eleven players available to Dyche now and it is stronger than ever. The fact is that Vydra is our 4th best striker at the minute and as such he will not be playing very often.

As a premier league team you need a squad with at least two choices per position (or 4 choices for the 2 striker positions). People are quick to criticise the cost of the people not playing but they need to be here to cover for injuries and to push the first and second choices to get even better. Therefore, they may have cost but are adding value.

Unfortunately, 4th choice premier league strikers are 15m + these days. As an example, Barnes (as shown in the stats on the other thread) has figures in 2019 that match the 100m strikers in the premier league. You just have to trust that Dyche will continue to develop our players as he has succeeded with Mee, Tarkowski, Keane, Barnes, Wood, Westwood, Taylor, Lowton etc etc. and accept that the odd few will not make it.
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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby willsclarets » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:01 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:I hope SD wouldn’t resort to giving subtle hints. I’d like to think he’d be honest with the lad and tell him where he stands.


I have zero doubt vydra knows where he stands. However it looks to us, one of the defining principles of his management appears to be honesty and openness with his players. For whatever reason it hasn't worked out, and though it's not a public matter I'm sure SD would do right by him in terms of moving him on if it suited all parties.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby willsclarets » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:06 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Has 1 player ever been in such demand to play as much as Vydra.

He isn't as good as Barnes, Wood or Jay. Why don't we have these constant threads for Kevin Long who has waited even longer than Vydra has for a chance, do we have to feel for Hendrick if he no longer gets a start ?

Think I will stick with Dyche's opinion of who plays


I agree with the last bit but I don't think Vydra is shy of the raw ability to rival the likes of Barnes and Wood. It's speculation, but I don't think it would take much in terms of a lack willingness to adhere to the team ethic and values sd demands to see you fall out of the reckoning.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby beddie » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:18 pm

There is a risk with any player I guess when you buy them but I always felt both Wells and Vydra were panick buys. Just my opinion of course.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby Bullabill » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:04 am

I might have missed something here but why don't any of the journo's at the various press conferences ask Sean about it? Is it a taboo subject? Is there a directive that questions about the matter are not allowed?

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby SonofPog » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:44 am

"Has 1 player ever been in such demand to play as much as Vydra.

He isn't as good as Barnes, Wood or Jay. Why don't we have these constant threads for Kevin Long who has waited even longer than Vydra has for a chance"


It could be that with Vydra, he seems to be getting and has had less time / chances than his price and purchase would suggest, implying there's a problem or story involved, everyone knows Long is backup, he's a solid back up and has filled in when needed, he gets the amount of playing time in friendlies that would suggest he is a back up.

Vydra was bought when we were struggling, (We hardly set the world alight in 2018) , we spent a lot of money on him, we weren't much better in the first half of season, neither Barnes, Wood or Vokes looked like scoring, Vydra had the pace that we lacked, yet he still didn't get a game, he came on, did ok, got a goal, and was never seen again. New season and he's below Wells in the friendly rotation, so, do we have a 4th striker option, or not? current information suggests not, that he's persona non grata, This is brought to the forefront when we place 3 defenders on the bench instead of V. So its understandable that there's threads about him.

I'm just surprised we didn't move him on during the transfer window.

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dsr
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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby dsr » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:58 am

Roosterbooster wrote:I feel for Vydra. Clearly wants game time, and works his socks off (maybe even tries too hard) when he gets the chance. I imagine the situation started as a subtle nod from SD to the board that they should have offered more for J-Rod last season. And Vydra was the victim. He looked very, very good in the Championship, and its difficult to think of many who are that good, failing to make the step up. Bamford is the obvious one. But I dont think it is fair to criticise Vydra. His opportunities have been so slim, compared the the opportunities Wood got when he was absolutely awful for so, so long. The difference is, SD wanted Wood, he didn't want Vydra.
I'd like him to stay and play. But if he doesnt, I'd like him to get the chance elsewhere ASAP. Its not fair on him.

You really don't like Sean Dyche, do you.

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boatshed bill
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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby boatshed bill » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:36 am

SonofPog wrote:
I'm just surprised we didn't move him on during the transfer window.


Perhaps no club would take him. If he was so keen to leave you'd imagine his agent would have been trying very hard to sort out a move.

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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby Roosterbooster » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:04 pm

dsr wrote:You really don't like Sean Dyche, do you.

Why would you think that? I'm not necessarily blaming Dyche. He clearly didnt have Vydra as first choice target, and all I'm suggesting is that he is playing the long game with the board, but Vydra has unfortunately been caught in the crossfire

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dsr
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Re: Three defenders on the bench Sat

Postby dsr » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:50 pm

Roosterbooster wrote:Why would you think that? I'm not necessarily blaming Dyche. He clearly didnt have Vydra as first choice target, and all I'm suggesting is that he is playing the long game with the board, but Vydra has unfortunately been caught in the crossfire

You're accusing Dyche of not picking Vydra because he didn't want to sign him. Hence deliberately playing silly beggars with Vydra's career and with Burnley's Premier league status. That's a pretty strong accusation.


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