Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Post Reply
FactualFrank
Posts: 25445
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:46 am
Been Liked: 6930 times
Has Liked: 11660 times
Location: Leeds

Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:46 am

I've been looking at the next 3 league fixtures and these are the sort of games where, assuming Drinkwater will perform as well as we think he will (as in, good enough to replace Cork most likely), we could be doing with him.

Could we see him make the bench this weekend away to Arsenal and if he comes on and impresses, perhaps one more bench appearance vs Wolves before starting the Sunderland cup game and putting himself in the hat to start vs Liverpool? Or do you think SD will stick with Cork and Westwood until we lose a game?

Pearcey
Posts: 3376
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:59 pm
Been Liked: 1140 times
Has Liked: 1439 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by Pearcey » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:48 am

If fit then definitely. After that we need a dip in form from either Cork or Westwood.

summitclaret
Posts: 3891
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 826 times
Has Liked: 1307 times
Location: burnley

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by summitclaret » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:53 am

It will be odd if he is not on the bench on Saturday.

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by Spijed » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:10 am

FactualFrank wrote:I've been looking at the next 3 league fixtures and these are the sort of games where, assuming Drinkwater will perform as well as we think he will (as in, good enough to replace Cork most likely), we could be doing with him.

Could we see him make the bench this weekend away to Arsenal and if he comes on and impresses, perhaps one more bench appearance vs Wolves before starting the Sunderland cup game and putting himself in the hat to start vs Liverpool? Or do you think SD will stick with Cork and Westwood until we lose a game?
There's no point dropping Westwood or Cork when you win 3-0. It wouldn't make any sense.
These 2 users liked this post: tim_noone Bosscat

willsclarets
Posts: 1927
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:06 am
Been Liked: 680 times
Has Liked: 133 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by willsclarets » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:45 am

Spijed wrote:There's no point dropping Westwood or Cork when you win 3-0. It wouldn't make any sense.
I'm not saying either of them should be dropped, but it's never made sense to me that just because you win the same team must play the next match regardless of the opposition. I know SD likes continuity (and we're only on game 2!), but occasionally a bit more rotation during the season might be good even if we're doing well to keep things fresh. I've heard interviews with Sir Alex where he'd plan rotations for a game weeks away, which is great for players on the bench who can look forward to game time. Being a squad player at Burnley must be pretty grim.
These 2 users liked this post: BOYSIE31 Burnley1989

FactualFrank
Posts: 25445
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:46 am
Been Liked: 6930 times
Has Liked: 11660 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:55 am

willsclarets wrote:I'm not saying either of them should be dropped, but it's never made sense to me that just because you win the same team must play the next match regardless of the opposition. I know SD likes continuity (and we're only on game 2!), but occasionally a bit more rotation during the season might be good even if we're doing well to keep things fresh. I've heard interviews with Sir Alex where he'd plan rotations for a game weeks away, which is great for players on the bench who can look forward to game time. Being a squad player at Burnley must be pretty grim.
I think the game vs Sunderland is a good chance to give the squad players some starting minutes, especially with Liverpool up after that. I guess it's a balancing act though, with several variables to take into account.

ClaretTony
Posts: 67429
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
Been Liked: 32238 times
Has Liked: 5254 times
Location: Burnley
Contact:

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:59 am

willsclarets wrote:I'm not saying either of them should be dropped, but it's never made sense to me that just because you win the same team must play the next match regardless of the opposition. I know SD likes continuity (and we're only on game 2!), but occasionally a bit more rotation during the season might be good even if we're doing well to keep things fresh. I've heard interviews with Sir Alex where he'd plan rotations for a game weeks away, which is great for players on the bench who can look forward to game time. Being a squad player at Burnley must be pretty grim.
We did quite a bit of rotation in the first half of last season - we had a much more settled team in the second half of the season
These 2 users liked this post: tim_noone Spijed

Quickenthetempo
Posts: 17916
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:35 am
Been Liked: 3841 times
Has Liked: 2065 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:04 am

Has he played an U23 game or behind closed door friendly for us yet?

willsclarets
Posts: 1927
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:06 am
Been Liked: 680 times
Has Liked: 133 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by willsclarets » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:58 am

ClaretTony wrote:We did quite a bit of rotation in the first half of last season - we had a much more settled team in the second half of the season
The suggestion that we were pants for the first part of the season due to the idea of rotating squad players is nonsense. They were tired, we hadn't had a proper pre-season, the defence was a shadow of itself without Heaton alongside various other factors. A settled team is one, but you can have a settled team and make the odd change. I'm not suggesting wholesale changes every game, just that it's a useful thing across a season to keep people on their toes, hand out a rest where needed and give the opposition different problems.
This user liked this post: turfytopper

ClaretTony
Posts: 67429
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
Been Liked: 32238 times
Has Liked: 5254 times
Location: Burnley
Contact:

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:40 am

willsclarets wrote:The suggestion that we were pants for the first part of the season due to the idea of rotating squad players is nonsense
I didn't suggest that it was due to that - I was merely pointing out that when we did go in for squad rotation we didn't do very well. We were changing names, changing systems, even going to three at the back. With a settled team in the second half of the season we looked much, much better.
These 4 users liked this post: FactualFrank Holtyclaret Spijed Fretters

Jakubs Tash
Posts: 2587
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 pm
Been Liked: 672 times
Has Liked: 244 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by Jakubs Tash » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:05 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I've been looking at the next 3 league fixtures and these are the sort of games where, assuming Drinkwater will perform as well as we think he will (as in, good enough to replace Cork most likely), we could be doing with him.

Could we see him make the bench this weekend away to Arsenal and if he comes on and impresses, perhaps one more bench appearance vs Wolves before starting the Sunderland cup game and putting himself in the hat to start vs Liverpool? Or do you think SD will stick with Cork and Westwood until we lose a game?
I think Drinkwater will be on the bench this weekend. I could see Rodriguez coming in for Wood and playing left hand side with McNeil moving into a No.10 role. 4-5-1 come 4-3-3 formation. I think a midfield 3 of Cork, Westwood and Drinkwater would be a bit too samey.

Granny WeatherWax
Posts: 2785
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:20 pm
Been Liked: 711 times
Has Liked: 88 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:10 pm

you play your best players, needs to be integrated ASAP really whilst taking into consideration he isn't permanent etc
Last edited by Granny WeatherWax on Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FactualFrank
Posts: 25445
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:46 am
Been Liked: 6930 times
Has Liked: 11660 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:33 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote:I could see Rodriguez coming in for Wood and playing left hand side with McNeil moving into a No.10 role.
That is something I certainly cannot see. You'd get very good odds on that one happening.

I think it'll be the same starting line up with Drinkwater making the bench.
Lennon/Hendrick possibly in for JBG to do a more defensive job, but that would be very harsh on JBG.

BOYSIE31
Posts: 2357
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:46 pm
Been Liked: 264 times
Has Liked: 1111 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by BOYSIE31 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:36 pm

Hoping so yes

wilks_bfc
Posts: 11410
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 3170 times
Has Liked: 1848 times
Contact:

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by wilks_bfc » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:51 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote:I could see Rodriguez coming in for Wood and playing left hand side with McNeil moving into a No.10 role.

Why on earth would we play a natural left winger in a forwards role and a natural forward on the left wing?

FactualFrank
Posts: 25445
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:46 am
Been Liked: 6930 times
Has Liked: 11660 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:01 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:Why on earth would we play a natural left winger in a forwards role and a natural forward on the left wing?
I think some people play far too much Football/Championship Manager.
These 2 users liked this post: wilks_bfc Frenchclaret

Jakubs Tash
Posts: 2587
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 pm
Been Liked: 672 times
Has Liked: 244 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by Jakubs Tash » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:07 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:Why on earth would we play a natural left winger in a forwards role and a natural forward on the left wing?
You'll need to ask Sean Dyche. It's what he did v Nice....
This user liked this post: Padiham Joe

wilks_bfc
Posts: 11410
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 3170 times
Has Liked: 1848 times
Contact:

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by wilks_bfc » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:22 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote:You'll need to ask Sean Dyche. It's what he did v Nice....

He may well have done but there’s a bit of a difference in experimenting once in a pre season friendly and doing it in a league game

Jakubs Tash
Posts: 2587
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 pm
Been Liked: 672 times
Has Liked: 244 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by Jakubs Tash » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:46 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:He may well have done but there’s a bit of a difference in experimenting once in a pre season friendly and doing it in a league game
Fair enough.....just an opinion based on what I have seen and how I think Dyche sees Jay Rod's flexibility. Jay spent a lot of time playing left hand side at Southampton (and Burnley previously) and McNeil has played centrally for the u23's. It's an option if 4-5-1 is decided upon on rather than just predictably putting Hendrick as the No.10. If Jay played there it would be essentially 4-4-2 .

Vino blanco
Posts: 5345
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:42 pm
Been Liked: 1898 times
Has Liked: 1965 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by Vino blanco » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:50 pm

JT, if Dyche picks a team or attacking formation similar to what you are suggesting, I will buy you a Mars Bar as a gift.

Firthy
Posts: 4966
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:04 am
Been Liked: 1607 times
Has Liked: 275 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by Firthy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:55 pm

Against Arsenal it will be the same team and bench as the last game. Possibly Drinkwater on the bench instead of Long but would be no surprise if he isn't.
This user liked this post: Vino blanco

jurek
Posts: 1790
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:38 pm
Been Liked: 309 times
Has Liked: 3 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by jurek » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:59 pm

More than likely that Dyche will stick with
the starting line up from Saturday and shuffle around the subs
to include Drinkwater.

Unless he decides to change formation.
If so, he may start with Drinkwater.

I think the problem we have playing a 4-4-2 formation
is that we can be swamped or bypassed in central midfield
too easily and our two central midfielders need to be at their
very best to make that more difficult.
If one isn't (at his best) then we're in trouble and rely on
the defense too much and don't create enough up front.

If that happens at Arsenal then we're going to find it
difficult, in not impossible, to get a result.
They've got a pretty awesome front two/three
who, if given enough chances will score.


Be interesting to see what Dyche goes for.

summitclaret
Posts: 3891
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 826 times
Has Liked: 1307 times
Location: burnley

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by summitclaret » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:12 pm

I like JBG but i am expecting Hendrick to play as a narrow wide right on Saturday for obvious reasons.

Jakubs Tash
Posts: 2587
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 pm
Been Liked: 672 times
Has Liked: 244 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by Jakubs Tash » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:19 pm

Vino blanco wrote:JT, if Dyche picks a team or attacking formation similar to what you are suggesting, I will buy you a Mars Bar as a gift.
Thanks - I like a Mars Bar.

BTW, it's not 'that' attacking. Wood dropped to bring Rodriguez in and 5 across the middle.

FWIW I too think it's very likely it will be the same XI playing a 4-4-2. I also think it could be suicide away at Arsenal.

claretblue
Posts: 6410
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:36 pm
Been Liked: 1831 times
Has Liked: 961 times
Location: cloud 9 since Dyche appointed

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by claretblue » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:44 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Has he played an U23 game or behind closed door friendly for us yet?
there was a trialist who played 1st half only for the U23's yesterday...maybe Danny but unnamed

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30275
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10917 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:34 pm

there's a fair chance Arsenal will go 3 at the back now they have Luiz so we might have to pack our midfield, i'll be surprised if he isn't on the bench

claretspice
Posts: 5660
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:13 am
Been Liked: 2801 times
Has Liked: 138 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by claretspice » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:36 pm

I was surprised he wasn't on the bench on Saturday, but it may be that because he only joined on Thursday, he'd not actually joined up with the squad (likely spent Friday sorting his stuff out).

After a week of training, it'd be very odd if he wasn't on the bench as an option should we get an injury in midfield. You'd imagine one of the defenders - most likely Long - make way. Gibson covers the centre half spot, Bardsley the full back slots, and Drinkwater, Hendrick Lennon and Rodriguez would complete the bench.
This user liked this post: summitclaret

NL Claret
Posts: 2004
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:37 pm
Been Liked: 515 times
Has Liked: 209 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by NL Claret » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:44 pm

Not one to comment on this type of thread however what I do like amongst some of the replies is the flexibility within the squad. With Jay Rod it gives us quite a few options / formations to use rather than just 442.

ClaretAL
Posts: 2565
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 1044 times
Has Liked: 815 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by ClaretAL » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:01 pm

I dont understand everyone's hang up on 442, for me the formation evolves and changes on the moment where we might go 622 on defence and also 4123 on attack. they line up in 442 and move as 442 but change on the moment, which is down to the discipline Dyche has bread in to the team and the demand for Leg, Hearts, Minds.

boatshed bill
Posts: 15108
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3138 times
Has Liked: 6682 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:14 pm

It's difficult to guess who would be left off last weekend's bench to accomodate Drinkwater .

EarbyClaret
Posts: 1376
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:48 am
Been Liked: 498 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by EarbyClaret » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:52 pm

boatshed bill wrote:It's difficult to guess who would be left off last weekend's bench to accomodate Drinkwater .
Long - we only had two CBs on the bench because of injuries to Brady and Taylor coupled with whatever is going on with Vydra.

I'd be very surprised if there's any change to the starting 11 or the 4-4-2 formation however a better balanced bench gives us options to modify the shape if we need to - either to stifle Arsenal's CMs or, optimistically speaking, because we'll have something to defend.

boatshed bill
Posts: 15108
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3138 times
Has Liked: 6682 times

Re: Drinkwater - bench this weekend?

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:55 pm

EarbyClaret wrote:Long - we only had two CBs on the bench because of injuries to Brady and Taylor coupled with whatever is going on with Vydra.

I'd be very surprised if there's any change to the starting 11 or the 4-4-2 formation however a better balanced bench gives us options to modify the shape if we need to - either to stifle Arsenal's CMs or, optimistically speaking, because we'll have something to defend.
I agree on the starting 11 not changing. I guess you are right that KL is the most likely to step down.

Post Reply