DAVETHEVICAR wrote:Problem is we have no replacements in the batting department.
Surely Vince, Malan, Keaton Jennings,Duckett Ballance , Lythe etc have had numerous chances and are no better.
The Aussies have had Siddle playing red ball cricket in England before this Test Series whilst ours have not played any red ball cricket.

Wasn’t the back-to-back Ashes series because of the World Cup bring held in Australia and it not being possible to hold both in the same summer?

If that was so, why are we doing it?

TheFamilyCat wrote:Wasn’t the back-to-back Ashes series because of the World Cup bring held in Australia and it not being possible to hold both in the same summer?

If that was so, why are we doing it?

It's possible but the Aussies wanted to the economy to be boosted by them being spread out.

A big plus that they didn't have to shoe horn both in though. Our season has been chaotic for the Ashes.

We all know Joe denly is Ed Smith's favourite

Denly out. I'm shocked!!
However, (hope I'm proved right), good decision to promote Stokes to 5. He's been coming in too low. Hopefully Bairstow next.
Buttler should be at 7.

nil_desperandum wrote:Ok, for starters: Dom Sibley is 10, (yes 10 years younger than Denly). He's a better batter and can only improve.
Sam Curran would give us an extra bowling option, and will make more runs than Roy batting down the order, and the rest can all shift up a position. I've no problem with Woakes at 7 and Curran at 8.
Those 2 changes don't take much thinking about IMO.
And Foakes appears a better option behind the stumps than either Bairstow or Buttler

Curran is out for the season now sadly

Denly gone for a good looking 26,shades of Mark Ramprakash,promises lots and delivers little.

Burns gone for 29 now,advantage the baggy greens.

71-4,lead is only 79,another 100 and this could still be interesting.

England definitely can't afford any more falling tonight.

Bizarrely, batting so badly has actually made an England win a possible outcome - however unlikely that is.

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Curran is out for the season now sadly

What, in addition to his brother Tom??
That's incredible bad luck. Two in one day.

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Curran is out for the season now sadly

That's Tom Curran,i'm guessing the op is referring to Sam Curran,he's been unlucky to miss out,he's never let England down when called upon.

nil_desperandum wrote:What, in addition to his brother Tom??
That's incredible bad luck. Two in one day.

Have I got the wrong brother ha ha. Having a nightmare this week. Brains frazzled

tiger76 wrote:Denly gone for a good looking 26,shades of Mark Ramprakash,promises lots and delivers little.

Burns gone for 29 now,advantage the baggy greens.

71-4,lead is only 79,another 100 and this could still be interesting.

England definitely can't afford any more falling tonight.

Ramprakash really was an enigma....promised so so much but just never seemed to mentally be strong enough. Such a good player when he was on it

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Have I got the wrong brother ha ha. Having a nightmare this week. Brains frazzled

Sorry. My sarcasm was over the top, but yes I did refer to Sam by name in my post.
Like Foakes, he's never let us down.

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Ramprakash really was an enigma....promised so so much but just never seemed to mentally be strong enough. Such a good player when he was on it

You're right.
Ramprakash was one of the best English batters of his time at County level, but he just didn't seem to have the temperament for Test Match cricket.
A real enigma as yo usay.

96-4 at the close,could have been worse as Stokes was dropped twice,at least we're still in with a shout,and if the total's anywhere near 200 for them to chase,i'd fancy England to bowl the Aussies out,Smith apart their batting is as flimsy as ours,and it's not certain he'll be allowed to bat in the 4th innings,he'll be assessed by the docs in the morning,there is even a chance he won't be able to play in the 3rd test,but that'll be down to the medics to decide.

I think it’s pretty poor that Smith was deemed fit to return out to bat but then not fit enough to take the field. You shouldn’t take chances with head injuries like that.

nil_desperandum wrote:You're right.
Ramprakash was one of the best English batters of his time at County level, but he just didn't seem to have the temperament for Test Match cricket.
A real enigma as yo usay.

It's clearly just a mental thing with some players. Brilliant when playing in front of one man and his dog at county level but can't handle the pressure of international cricket.

Lord’s is an unpredictable ground.
To say we’ve lost almost two days through rain, we have an entire team out of form with the bat (Burns excepted), Steve Smith is defining himself as one of the most indefatigable batsmen in cricket history, we still have two impressive bowling attacks and the hope under the surface that we will come good. Tomorrow is a big day. Ashes cricket is brilliant sport.

“Smith apart, their batting is as flimsy as ours.”

Unfortunately Tiger, we can’t get Smith out, and I would fancy him to sort out any low-scoring run chase on his own.

Didn’t see much of yesterday’s play as I’m on holiday. Are we adopting tactics as when we had the same problem with Bradmam????

Rileybobs wrote:I think it’s pretty poor that Smith was deemed fit to return out to bat but then not fit enough to take the field. You shouldn’t take chances with head injuries like that.

He went to hospital for an X-ray on his arm.

box_of_frogs wrote:He went to hospital for an X-ray on his arm.

Yes, but it's the head injury that is the concern. It was almost identical to the Phil Hughes blow.
Anyway, his arm's not broken, but if he had been or is retrospectively deemed to have concussion then he not only misses the 2nd innings but the next test as well.

Bumble was on repeat yesterday when talking about any of the quicker bowlers "He's a big strapping lad, he's bowling at 90 miles per hour."

Raining in NW London at the moment and rain showers forecast up until past lunchtime. Any more time lost to rain and that will be it for this match sadly.

Rain is doing England no favours,unless England collapse when play starts,which with this bunch is possible,a draw is the only outcome i can see.

nil_desperandum wrote:Yes, but it's the head injury that is the concern. It was almost identical to the Phil Hughes blow.
Anyway, his arm's not broken, but if he had been or is retrospectively deemed to have concussion then he not only misses the 2nd innings but the next test as well.

Rumours that Smith won't be allowed to bat in the 2nd innings due to concussion,big blow for the Aussies not just in this game,which they should at least be able to draw,but also for Headingley,we'll see what the rest of their batters are made off if they can't rely on their talisman.

Play due to start at 12.10,and 88 overs left in the day,but i doubt we'll get them all in,i imagine this will end in a draw,but with Ashes cricket you can never be certain.

England don't want to chase the win and get rolled over,a draw in this test wouldn't be a bad result,and the series would be very much in the balance,but the Aussies go 2 up here and there's no chance of a comeback.

Smith confirmed to have "Delayed Concussion" and will not play in this test.

Also understand that there is a period of 6 days with no practice or play to allow for recovery, which puts him out of the next test too doesn't it? Or can he be substituted back in on day 3?

dandeclaret wrote:Smith confirmed to have "Delayed Concussion" and will not play in this test.

Also understand that there is a period of 6 days with no practice or play to allow for recovery, which puts him out of the next test too doesn't it? Or can he be substituted back in on day 3?

I’m not convinced it was “delayed” judging by his bizarre cameo when he came back out.

Bit shift towards England in the series with that news.

I don't know the protocols for delayed concussion,but all the noises coming from Cricket Australia,are that he's unlikely to play next week,i think the Phil Hughes tragedy is still fresh in many people's minds,and they will be ultra cautious.

The Aussies can field a replacement in this test due to the nature of the injury,and that player can bat and even bowl if they so desire,i doubt they'll bowl but another batter could be helpful to them if England are pushing for a victory.

They've opted for Marnus Labuschagne which may give us a guide to their selection for the next test,very decent replacement but he's no Steve Smith.mind you few are.

Wonder if England should try and score a rapid 120-130 runs and put Australia in mid-afternoon?

Spijed wrote:Wonder if England should try and score a rapid 120-130 runs and put Australia in mid-afternoon?

I’d like to see us have a bowl at them today, even if the win is out of reach. With Smith likely to be missing it would be good psychologically if we could get a few out cheaply.

Spijed wrote:Wonder if England should try and score a rapid 120-130 runs and put Australia in mid-afternoon?

IMO no when we're already one down.
Warner is due some runs and he scores very quickly.
Make sure we don't lose today, and it's a different game next week without Smith.
I can see the point of your question though

We also have batsmen out of form. If Stokes and Buttler can spend time in the middle, they may bat themselves back into a bit of form.

What sort of total would you think would be a good one to declare and put the Aussies in??

There is no suitable total / overs remaining mix. They defo won't want to be 2 down with 3 to play, so it will be safety first. They may bat for as long as they have wickets today.

I suppose you don't want Australia chasing anything less than 6 per over.

Anywhere near 250 with 40 overs remaining would put the game in our favour.

That is England scoring at just over 6 an over for the next 20 overs.... risking losing the test to get into a position where they are asking a team to bat for time for 40 overs.......

The draw is currently priced qt 96% likely on the betting markets.

Spijed wrote:I suppose you don't want Australia chasing anything less than 6 per over.

Anywhere near 250 with 40 overs remaining would put the game in our favour.

There is virtually zero chance of us bowling them out in 40 overs.

I wouldn't fancy this Aussie side to get 200 without Smith, but I can't see Root taking any kind of risk with an early declaration.

TheFamilyCat wrote:There is virtually zero chance of us bowling them out in 40 overs.

Even with Archer bowling and Australia without Smith?

I cant recall anyone making such an impression on an a debut Ashes test as Archer has. Everyone has only been saying how Smith is untouchable, will we ever get his wicket. Something like this can seriously damage a batters mental state. Everytime Smith plays us now he will be bricking facing Archer and our coaching staff know this. He could torture the Aussies for the next 10 years if he carries on developing.

Or Smith could come out fighting and bash Archer all over the ground next time they meet. For some reason I think Smith is that good it could be this one

dandeclaret wrote:We also have batsmen out of form. If Stokes and Buttler can spend time in the middle, they may bat themselves back into a bit of form.

It's a valid argument,i'm not sure how you can say Stokes is out of form,he's just scored his 2nd fifty in 3 Ashes innings,Buttler yes an hour or two this afternoon would do him the world of good,at least Bairstow made runs in the 1st dig,so hopefully that potent middle order is finding it's feet at last.

Even if this test limps to a draw,England will take far more positives than Australia.

Burns looked solid at the top of the order again.

Bairstow got a score finally.

And England bowled Australia out cheaply again,the worry for Australia is if you take Steve Smith's runs away from both 1st innings,they would be struggling to pass 150,assuming he does miss the 3rd test,someone else in their batting line-up is going to have to step up to the mark and be counted quite literally.

And Jofra has added a different dynamic to England's attack,genuine pace is rare these days,but this guy has it,and more crucially he knows how to use it.

Buttler gone after lunch for 31,3 for Cummins now,Stokes surviving an LBW review,the Aussies have burned all their reviews now,England have 2 in the bank if required.

165-5 lead of 173,i don't think England will feel totally secure yet,another good partnership,and the game will be safe,i doubt there will be enough overs left to force a result.

Be good from England's viewpoint to keep Lyon wicketless in this innings,a small moral victory if nothing else.

Hope we declare at c 230/240 or when Stokes gets to a ton, think we'll play it safe though and get another 25+ on top of that before we risk it.

Century for Stokes.

Have to declare now imo.

dandeclaret wrote:That is England scoring at just over 6 an over for the next 20 overs.... risking losing the test to get into a position where they are asking a team to bat for time for 40 overs.......

The draw is currently priced qt 96% likely on the betting markets.

England to win must be very tempting.

I had a bet on England to win before play started @14/1. 6/1 now with 1/8 the draw and 28/1 Australia.
2 or 3 quick wickets and no Smith will soon change the odds, fingers crossed.

This is going to be an interesting finish!

Warner gone early!

Good job our West Indian and Kiwi lads are doing the business for us

Crikey Khawaja gone now!!!

This could get interesting