City v Spurs

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Dyched
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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Dyched » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:47 pm

You can’t use your arms as an outfield player in football. So why the bloody hell should goals be given if it hits an arm deliberate or not. In hockey you can’t use your feet. It doesn't matter if you do 3000 kick ups and hit it in the top corner or it accidentally hits your leg.

The new rule is fantastic.

Ashingtonclaret46
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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:55 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:So you're upset because VAR did its job and ruled out a goal thanks to a handball?
No one needs to appeal it if VAR spots something that's happened to fast for the officials to see, that's kind of the point of it last time I checked.
Upset? About a game of football? Not at all. THe only thing that upset me about it was the way that Jesus harangued the onfield officials because of a decision not made by them. It would have been interesting to see him cautioned for his outburst, however, Michael Oliver used common sense ---or was he told not to issue a caution by the VAR operator?
You will soon have the game which you all desire. Enjoy it.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:59 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:Upset? About a game of football? Not at all. THe only thing that upset me about it was the way that Jesus harangued the onfield officials because of a decision not made by them. It would have been interesting to see him cautioned for his outburst, however, Michael Oliver used common sense ---or was he told not to issue a caution by the VAR operator?
You will soon have the game which you all desire. Enjoy it.
The game we all desire?

Yeah we've all really enjoyed watching Koscielny bundle the ball over the line against us these last couple of years to give Arsenal wins when he's either offside or using his hand.
We all enjoy watching officials favour the bigger teams, even when it's not games involving us.
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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:10 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:The game we all desire?

Yeah we've all really enjoyed watching Koscielny bundle the ball over the line against us these last couple of years to give Arsenal wins when he's either offside or using his hand.
We all enjoy watching officials favour the bigger teams, even when it's not games involving us.
Not to mention us being awarded a penalty when Vokes handled at Swansea or the winning goal against Leicester the other season when he controlled the ball with his hand.
Enjoy ---you will definitely get the game you desire but don't moan about any decision made against your team which is not covered by VAR ---it's only a game.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:34 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:Forget it --players and fans never appeal for anything so it is totally irrelevant to expect that they woud start now.
I hold my hand up and look forward to many quiet games in the future and I also look forward to no players ever approaching the match officials over any decision ---appealing ---don't bother me now --it's not allowed.
I don’t understand the point that you’re trying to make. Players and fans alike appeal for decisions, they did before VAR and they will continue to do with it. But fans, players and referees don’t have a clear view of every incident in a game. A Manchester City player today handled the ball and it led to a goal. It didn’t seem like a significant proportion of the players saw the incident but that doesn’t mean that it didn’t occur.

Did many players or fans appeal for Barnes’ offside that led to Wood’s goal being chalked off last weekend out of interest?

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:21 am

Rileybobs wrote:Did many players or fans appeal for Barnes’ offside that led to Wood’s goal being chalked off last weekend out of interest?
That was a slightly different issue because the goal was never given. Plenty of fans hoped that VAR would overturn the ref's decision to disallow it, but you wouldn't really say they were "appealing".

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:41 am

dsr wrote:That was a slightly different issue because the goal was never given. Plenty of fans hoped that VAR would overturn the ref's decision to disallow it, but you wouldn't really say they were "appealing".
Yes different issue for sure, but nobody thought that Barnes was offside other than the ref’s assistant. My point being that just because players or fans don’t appeal doesn’t mean that an incident hasn’t occurred.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:51 am

Rileybobs wrote:Yes different issue for sure, but nobody thought that Barnes was offside other than the ref’s assistant. My point being that just because players or fans don’t appeal doesn’t mean that an incident hasn’t occurred.
I see. Yes, that's true.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by CFS » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:06 am

AshevilleNCClaret wrote:Wow...
US sports have been using some sort of video replay for years, so I'm used to things being shown on video.... tight call but looks like they are really going by the book for VAR.
By the book? VAR missed a blatant push in the first half which should of been a pen to city.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Shore claret » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:32 am

If any ball that bits the hand is a handball how come when Murray for Brighton blocked a free kick with his arm no penalty was given?

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Sproggy » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:46 am

There are different handball rules for attackers and defenders.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:49 am

Shore claret wrote:If any ball that bits the hand is a handball how come when Murray for Brighton blocked a free kick with his arm no penalty was given?
Because any ball that hits the hand isn't a handball.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Shore claret » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:16 am

I'm really confused now
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Re: City v Spurs

Post by tiger76 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:19 am

CFS wrote:By the book? VAR missed a blatant push in the first half which should of been a pen to city.
How the on field officials missed that shove was weird,let alone the VAR ref,it was so obvious.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by tiger76 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:27 am

Shore claret wrote:I'm really confused now
You're not the only one that's :? even Lloris was baffled by the decision.

I thought the concept of VAR was to clear up any debate,if anything it's increased discussion.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Spijed » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:31 am

Sproggy wrote:There are different handball rules for attackers and defenders.
That's it.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:56 am

Shore claret wrote:I'm really confused now
Read this

It's really not that complicated.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Rick_Muller » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:01 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Read this

It's really not that complicated.
So going off what was stated there, Ben Mee shouldn’t have been penalised yesterday.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by tiger76 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:19 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:So going off what was stated there, Ben Mee shouldn’t have been penalised yesterday.
Ben was definitely trying to get his arm out of the way,i think it was a harsh free-kick,but once the calls been made we should have defended much better,even Sean admitted that in his post-match interview.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Hibsclaret » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:49 pm

On the subject of VAR absolutely no idea why City didn’t get a pen in the first half. It was blatant holding in the box and a definite pen. Surely this is the sort of decision it has been brought in for. Viewing that on the screen I can’t see how they can’t award a pen.

If it is dependent upon the ref referring something and if he didn’t see it why would he refer it. Surely the people watching the screens can send the ref a message to stop the game while they check.....

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:08 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:So going off what was stated there, Ben Mee shouldn’t have been penalised yesterday.
Agreed.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:47 pm

So everyone accepts the goal was correctly ruled out as per the current laws?
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Re: City v Spurs

Post by nil_desperandum » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:56 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Yes different issue for sure, but nobody thought that Barnes was offside other than the ref’s assistant. .
Sorry if this comes across as me being a bit of a smart arse, but the guys either side of me, (along with me), correctly called the Barnes offside as soon as the defender slipped.
That being the case I'm pretty sure that others who were bang in line in either the Bob Lord (as we were) or on the Longside opposite also spotted it or at least questioned it.
The assistant flagged immediately and we were in no doubt that VAR would support him.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Greeny » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:37 pm

Don’t know what all the fuss is about. All we wanted was that the rules were applied to ensure the big boys didn’t get all the favourable decisions. VAR proved its worth at The Emirates yesterday when Arsenal’s customary offside/handball goal against us was correctly chalked off. As for sh*tty City, the spoilt brats in sky blue and their obnoxious Catalan Colin of a Manager get all chirpy as usual when they don’t get their usual dodgy decisions in their favour.
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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:40 pm

To be fair Arsenal’s had already been ruled out.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by yorkyclaret » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:56 pm

But would he have flagged if there was no VAR?

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:16 pm

All three officials were spot on yesterday with all their decisions and, as Bordeaux said, the flag had already gone up before it was reviewed. Likewise, there was no flag for the Ashley Barnes goal which was reviewed and stood. Technically VAR was redundant in our game yesterday because the officials were excellent

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:29 pm

yorkyclaret wrote:But would he have flagged if there was no VAR?
I would have thought so.
As far as I’m aware they are still going with what they believe are correct at the time.
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Re: City v Spurs

Post by yorkyclaret » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:50 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:I would have thought so.
As far as I’m aware they are still going with what they believe are correct at the time.
So you don't believe we have had big/rich club bias all these years?

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:54 pm

yorkyclaret wrote:So you don't believe we have had big/rich club bias all these years?
Yes I believe we have.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Roosterbooster » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:53 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:I’m not a fan of VAR. but ultimately the players know the rules and everyone voted for it.

The handball rule makes sense too. Because there is no grey area. Handballs handball. Intentional or otherwise. And it’s the best rule you can have because it’s not subjective.
Objectivity doesn't necessarily equate to fairness though

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:00 pm

Roosterbooster wrote:Objectivity doesn't necessarily equate to fairness though
But more fair than the opposite.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Wokingclaret » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:02 pm

VAR should not be checking every goal.

There should be an appeal system like Cricket, 2 appeals per match but you lose them if you abuse them

City could have appealed the Pen for example

The hand ball rule is terrible, and therefore not good for Ben Mee, as his arms attract the ball like a magnet

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:08 pm

Wokingclaret wrote:VAR should not be checking every goal.

There should be an appeal system like Cricket, 2 appeals per match but you lose them if you abuse them

City could have appealed the Pen for example

The hand ball rule is terrible, and therefore not good for Ben Mee, as his arms attract the ball like a magnet
With 2 appeals per match every goal would be appealed. I don’t understand why people think that this would be a good solution. 2 game weeks in and VAR has been fairly unobtrusive. We’d have had 80 VAR reviews by now, many spurious, with your idea.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Wokingclaret » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:12 pm

No way because they would lose appeals

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:14 pm

Wokingclaret wrote:No way because they would lose appeals
Who cares about losing appeals? Burnley would have appealed both of Arsenal’s goals on the off chance that something was amiss in the build up. What else would teams be banking the appeals up for?

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Wokingclaret » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:23 pm

So a good first goal and we are left with one.
Then have one appeal. Every goal should not be checked unless there is a valid reason

Just my opinion Rileybobs

VAR has been obtrusive because we are waiting to hear if is a goal is good or not

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:29 pm

Wokingclaret wrote:So a good first goal and we are left with one.
Then have one appeal. Every goal should not be checked unless there is a valid reason

Just my opinion Rileybobs

VAR has been obtrusive because we are waiting to hear if is a goal is good or not
We are left with one appeal so we would appeal the second goal with approximately 30 minutes left in the game and practically nothing to lose.

I know it’s your opinion, perfectly fine, I’m just challenging it. If a team gets two appeals they will appeal for the first two goals that they concede in the hope of a phantom hand ball or marginal offside in the build up. That would be far more intrusive to the game than what we have seen in the opening two weeks of the PL season.

And this is coming from someone who is opposed entirely to VAR but is surprised by how well it has been integrated into the PL when you compare what a mess it made of the World Cup.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:35 pm

With goals being so important in a game of football when one happens it is important to take a minute (about 20% as long as it takes Arsenal players to go from being tackled to restarting play) to confirm that the goal was in fact a good goal.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Wokingclaret » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:39 pm

OK, but you are forgetting any other appeals for pens and possible red card

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:43 pm

Wokingclaret wrote:OK, but you are forgetting any other appeals for pens and possible red card
Each team would use both appeals per game, and more often than not they would be used for the sake of it. So every game now has 4 VAR reviews. Have any games this season had 4 VAR reviews yet? Maybe some have but the average is less, so your idea causes more problems than it solves.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by tim_noone » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:46 pm

It worked in our favour yesterday.....going in at Half time Losing 2...1 would have been Curtains. :shock:

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Rick_Muller » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:49 pm

Why 2 appeals, one appeal per game should suffice, and only the captain can appeal, and within a specified time limit - say 20 seconds of the goal/event they want to appeal to VAR for. If they’re right they keep their appeal, if they’re wrong, that’s it no more in the game. Captains would have to be certain that there is an issue to make it worthwhile, and be specific about what it is they’re appealing against, frivolous appeals could potentially be punished after so many in a season, perhaps.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:03 am

Rick_Muller wrote:Why 2 appeals, one appeal per game should suffice, and only the captain can appeal, and within a specified time limit - say 20 seconds of the goal/event they want to appeal to VAR for. If they’re right they keep their appeal, if they’re wrong, that’s it no more in the game. Captains would have to be certain that there is an issue to make it worthwhile, and be specific about what it is they’re appealing against, frivolous appeals could potentially be punished after so many in a season, perhaps.
Again though, how is this better than the system that’s been implemented? Putting VAR reviews into the hand of the players is open to abuse. In addition, the technology has been introduced to get as many correct decisions as possible. Having one review per team really won’t lead to this outcome.

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Rick_Muller » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:04 am

Rileybobs wrote:Again though, how is this better than the system that’s been implemented? Putting VAR reviews into the hand of the players is open to abuse. In addition, the technology has been introduced to get as many correct decisions as possible. Having one review per team really won’t lead to this outcome.
Imo it’s a good compromise between stopping every goal for a review and having unjust decisions

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Re: City v Spurs

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:11 am

Rick_Muller wrote:Imo it’s a good compromise between stopping every goal for a review and having unjust decisions
Not every goal gets stopped for a review though.

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