Barnes - an Apology

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:17 am

Not sure this warrants a thread but i couldn't think where else to put it. I have in the past (and as recently as the last 12 months or less) criticised Ashley Barnes as not being good enough for either the PL or us - I rated him as a good third choice striker at best and said I doubted his skill and said many times he is all bluster and physicality.

I WAS WRONG.

I will always admit to being wrong and/or mistaken and in the case of Barnes I most definitely was. It has taken him a little while to find his feet in the PL but he is now. I believe, the real deal. 3 in 2 and a great second half to last season says it all, and I read over the weekend somewhere (not sure where exactly) that in 2019 only Mane and Jesus have actually scored more PL goals (and he's only just behind them). That is quite astonishing.

I never thought I'd be saying this but I am glad I am, but the battle for the strikers role is now between Wood and Jay-Rod, it has to be as Barnes must now be a shoe in for every game.

So happy to be wrong.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:21 am

It's easy to praise when he's scoring.

Come back and do it when he's having a barren spell.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:23 am

Let’s himself down with silly diving and fouling. Our last chance on Saturday and he decides to pull down a defender and gives a freekick away? Why?

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:27 am

houseboy wrote:Not sure this warrants a thread but i couldn't think where else to put it. I have in the past (and as recently as the last 12 months or less) criticised Ashley Barnes as not being good enough for either the PL or us - I rated him as a good third choice striker at best and said I doubted his skill and said many times he is all bluster and physicality.

I WAS WRONG.

I will always admit to being wrong and/or mistaken and in the case of Barnes I most definitely was. It has taken him a little while to find his feet in the PL but he is now. I believe, the real deal. 3 in 2 and a great second half to last season says it all, and I read over the weekend somewhere (not sure where exactly) that in 2019 only Mane and Jesus have actually scored more PL goals (and he's only just behind them). That is quite astonishing.

I never thought I'd be saying this but I am glad I am, but the battle for the strikers role is now between Wood and Jay-Rod, it has to be as Barnes must now be a shoe in for every game.

So happy to be wrong.

You are forgiven house m8
Although it was a difficult decision ... but after consulting our legal team all charges against you for being a Barnesophobe are dropped.

Just think on though because any future relapse and the full force of the powers that be will be after you

Hey m8 we all have a go at certain players one time or another... Gordaleman and Nick Pope 2 seasons ago and he grudgingly had to concede when we finished 7th.
Even now he is having digs with the Tom Heaton comparisons....

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:33 am

Fair play for admitting you were wrong but it’s all about opinions and i’m guessing there will be some fans who still think he’s not good enough
Would be interesting to see why the OP has changed his mind
Is it because you’ve seen a few stats you weren’t aware of ? Or is it because he’s started the season well and getting a lot of media attention ?
I don’t really see much difference in the way Barnes is playing. He’s always struck a quality ball - he hits it early and has got great technique...look as far back at his days at Brighton and you can see plenty of screamers he scored.
His other obvious quality is the torrid time he gives a lot of centre backs - again he’s always had that but I think he has just got cleverer in the way he uses it as he has got more experience.
Been a great player for Dyche - very reliable and honest and it’s clear he’s a big influence in the dressing room. Like most strikers he’s going to have lean spells but you can tell he hates being out of the team and if he is dropped he has always done his best to fight his way back into the team.
Fans favourite because of his attitude on the pitch and how grounded he seems off it.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:44 am

How can you define as to whether a player is good enough for the Premier league or not?

Does a striker, for example, have to score a certain number of goals in a season to be considered good enough at this level?

What is the criteria for any player?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:50 am

Dyched wrote:Let’s himself down with silly diving and fouling. Our last chance on Saturday and he decides to pull down a defender and gives a freekick away? Why?

I was really annoyed at that. As that's the Barnes of old. And the Barnes that wasn't scoring enough or contributing enough generally.

When he puts that energy into playing the game (with his own edge) he is almost unstoppable at times.

Cost us an opportunity and could've got himself two yellows during that.

However that has almost disappeared form his game and he is a key player.

One of main reasons we struggled last season was down to the partnership between Wood and Barnes being disrupted. They have to start together when both fit and available.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:19 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:I was really annoyed at that. As that's the Barnes of old. And the Barnes that wasn't scoring enough or contributing enough generally.

When he puts that energy into playing the game (with his own edge) he is almost unstoppable at times.

Cost us an opportunity and could've got himself two yellows during that.

However that has almost disappeared form his game and he is a key player.

One of main reasons we struggled last season was down to the partnership between Wood and Barnes being disrupted. They have to start together when both fit and available.

I agree with that. His improvement over the last 18 months or so as been incredible.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:22 pm

houseboy wrote:Not sure this warrants a thread but i couldn't think where else to put it. I have in the past (and as recently as the last 12 months or less) criticised Ashley Barnes as not being good enough for either the PL or us - I rated him as a good third choice striker at best and said I doubted his skill and said many times he is all bluster and physicality.

I WAS WRONG.

I will always admit to being wrong and/or mistaken and in the case of Barnes I most definitely was. It has taken him a little while to find his feet in the PL but he is now. I believe, the real deal. 3 in 2 and a great second half to last season says it all, and I read over the weekend somewhere (not sure where exactly) that in 2019 only Mane and Jesus have actually scored more PL goals (and he's only just behind them). That is quite astonishing.

I never thought I'd be saying this but I am glad I am, but the battle for the strikers role is now between Wood and Jay-Rod, it has to be as Barnes must now be a shoe in for every game.

So happy to be wrong.

It takes something to admit that so it's a well done from me HB.

COBBLE · Post by **COBBLE** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:22 pm

When (or if) Drinkwater gets in the team I think the dynamics may change again in Chris Wood's favour as DD releases the through ball earlier.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:23 pm

I have always liked him.
Uses his strength to unsettle defender and then goes down easily when the defender is not expecting it and gets us free kicks in good positions.

He has become a nightmare to play against and teams don’t like him.

theroyaldyche · Post by **theroyaldyche** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:26 pm

Id be happy if jay never got a game if barnes and wood do the biz every game

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:26 pm

When we first brought Ashley to the Club, he was very much a Marmite figure.

Many have given him stick, and some still do.

When he's on song, there is no-one like him but, as Dyched points out, he lets himself down with silly falling over and niggly fouls.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:33 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:It's easy to praise when he's scoring.

Come back and do it when he's having a barren spell.

I thought long and hard about exactly that but he has started the season where he left off last season. Sometimes it takes a while for something to 'click' and I think that is true of Barnes. Yes he IS bluster and physicality, it's part of his game but somehow he seems to have learned more. His first control and finish against Southampton even had MOTD purring. Is he Sala or Jesus or Aguero - definitely not but he is something a bit special to us I think.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:34 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:It's easy to praise when he's scoring.

Come back and do it when he's having a barren spell.

Barnes brings far more than goals

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:36 pm

Bosscat wrote:You are forgiven house m8
Although it was a difficult decision ... but after consulting our legal team all charges against you for being a Barnesophobe are dropped.

Just think on though because any future relapse and the full force of the powers that be will be after you

Hey m8 we all have a go at certain players one time or another... Gordaleman and Nick Pope 2 seasons ago and he grudgingly had to concede when we finished 7th.
Even now he is having digs with the Tom Heaton comparisons....

I'm gonna be careful mate - don't want to be dragged of to room 101.

Right about Gordy - he just wouldn't let it go about Pope would he. So funny.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:45 pm

TVC15 wrote:Fair play for admitting you were wrong but it’s all about opinions and i’m guessing there will be some fans who still think he’s not good enough
Would be interesting to see why the OP has changed his mind
Is it because you’ve seen a few stats you weren’t aware of ? Or is it because he’s started the season well and getting a lot of media attention ?
I don’t really see much difference in the way Barnes is playing. He’s always struck a quality ball - he hits it early and has got great technique...look as far back at his days at Brighton and you can see plenty of screamers he scored.
His other obvious quality is the torrid time he gives a lot of centre backs - again he’s always had that but I think he has just got cleverer in the way he uses it as he has got more experience.
Been a great player for Dyche - very reliable and honest and it’s clear he’s a big influence in the dressing room. Like most strikers he’s going to have lean spells but you can tell he hates being out of the team and if he is dropped he has always done his best to fight his way back into the team.
Fans favourite because of his attitude on the pitch and how grounded he seems off it.

The stats are a factor mate (the comparison with Mane and Jesus were particularly interesting) but it's more than that. His physical presence was always a threat but I doubted his actual skill as a striker but I have seen things in the last few months that have made me think again. The PL is a tough league for a striker because you get so few chances and I do think he was lacking in part of his game in that sense (he needed too many chances) but he has become more clinical of late and that I believe is something he has learned, maybe when playing against the real top quality in the PL, maybe watching their game, I don't know, but something has definitely changed in him. As someone has fairly pointed out though he has a tendency to 'play the game' which makes me wonder about what Dyche may say to him considering he was banging on again (and rightly so) about 'cheats' in the game this weekend. All-in-all though Barnes has improved immeasurably.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:54 pm

Spijed wrote:How can you define as to whether a player is good enough for the Premier league or not?

Does a striker, for example, have to score a certain number of goals in a season to be considered good enough at this level?

What is the criteria for any player?

I would say a striker HAS to score goals yes - what else would he be there for? It is possibly easier to measure a strikers 'worth' in the PL than any other position (except maybe goalies). Midfield players can be brilliant and never score and even more so defenders, they do a completely different job but a striker has really one job to do and that is to bang the ball in the net, otherwise what is he? A forward playing midfielder? Yes he can run off the ball and take defenders with him to create openings but his primary function is to score.

I get what you mean about the difficulty in saying who is good enough or not but I think it can definitely be said that if a striker isn't scoring and failing to do so on a regular basis then you have to question his ability at that level, whatever level that be not just the PL.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:24 pm

Barnes has played well for us for ages. It can't just be recent games that's made you have a change of heart, surely.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:26 pm

I was one who thought he needed chopping in for someone else last year I think it was.

I've never gobbed off like some did on here though and there are a few who'll never admit they were wrong about him though.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:28 pm

Spijed wrote:How can you define as to whether a player is good enough for the Premier league or not?

Does a striker, for example, have to score a certain number of goals in a season to be considered good enough at this level?

What is the criteria for any player?

They were chatting on the radio the other day about Barnes and it was pointed out that there are a significant number of PL 'Strikers' who just don't score many goals, whereas Barnes' strike rate has improved each season.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:35 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:They were chatting on the radio the other day about Barnes and it was pointed out that there are a significant number of PL 'Strikers' who just don't score many goals, whereas Barnes' strike rate has improved each season.

He's a pain in the backside and defenders don't like playing against him. Plenty still knock Wood, but I think they work very well together.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:38 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Barnes has played well for us for ages. It can't just be recent games that's made you have a change of heart, surely.

Just this year really yes. All I saw, perhaps wrongly, before that was a great big in-your-face bullying type who threw himself around a lot. I'm not saying I was right (obviously I wasn't) but I just didn't see it. Or it is as I say maybe he has grown into the PL, plaYERS DO LEARN AND THE pl IS A MASSIVE LEARNING CURVE.

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:54 pm

Can someone post this thread on the existing Brighton one just to rub it in a bit more?

jollyjack · Post by **jollyjack** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:56 pm

Whilst certainly not the best player ever in Claret and Blue, he's surely the best value for money player in our team since the 1960s.....

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:02 pm

I think Barnes is the one player you would notice most if he wasn't there.
The team just wouldn't be the same.

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:06 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:I was really annoyed at that. As that's the Barnes of old. And the Barnes that wasn't scoring enough or contributing enough generally.

When he puts that energy into playing the game (with his own edge) he is almost unstoppable at times.

Cost us an opportunity and could've got himself two yellows during that.

However that has almost disappeared form his game and he is a key player.

One of main reasons we struggled last season was down to the partnership between Wood and Barnes being disrupted. They have to start together when both fit and available.

I dvr'd it. Definitely gets blocked off by the midfielder. Never a foul by Barnes. But I can see why Dean could think so out of the corner of his eye

Conroy92 · Post by **Conroy92** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:30 pm

The opposite for me in a way- I'd like to apologise about Wood. I think in the past 6 months he has improved tremendously. The timings of runs have become better, he is working the channel from time to time and I have got to say, he is getting across the pitch and closing better. I was critical of all the above last season but he looks to be a more completed player than before. Still work to be done but I must admit Barnes and Wood are looking a strong front two at the minute.
Thanks houseboy for leading the way.

SussexDon1inIreland · Post by **SussexDon1inIreland** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:51 pm

Always has been my favourite Claret of recent times (Ben Mee 2nd)

The posts above criticising Ash for the foul at the end should watch it again
Their defender did the foul
Watch it again
Why do you think ash was so furious we should have had a FK
Sean Dyche in his press interview after the match was asked about by a journalist hoping to get SD to say yes it was a dive said ‘ no I have seen it again and their player did the foul’

UTC

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:49 pm

Ashley Barnes has now had more shots and more shots on target than any other player in the premier league.
Great start to the season for him.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:52 pm

chekhov wrote:Ashley Barnes has now had more shots and more shots on target than any other player in the premier league.
Great start to the season for him.

Both shots AND shots on target? Crikey. Impressive stat/fact.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:52 pm

Correction: actually Pukki has had 9 on target to Ashley's 8 (from BBC )

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