Wolves v Man Utd
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
since when is a shoulder handball ?
Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Exactly ......ClaretTony wrote:To get to four pens in the Premier League you have to go back to Feb 2017, Gray at Swansea.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Strangely the Swansea pen, which was an awful decision from Taylor, was our fifth of six in 2016/17 but then none in 2017/18 and only two last season.Bosscat wrote:Exactly ......
Re: Wolves v Man Utd
But fans will stop celebrating altogether as they won't be sure if a goal is going to be given or not.Dyched wrote:Yeah lets start giving illegal goals so fans can celebrate.
That will kill football!
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Not quite an £85 million back pass from Maguire, there.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
I didn't see the game, are Wolves any good in the air at the back? do you think we can capitalise on any weaknesses there?
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Wolves are good all over the pitch, will be a seriously tough game for every team that goes to Wolves for sure never mind us ! A lot will depend on what team they field on Thursday away in TorinoSouth West Claret. wrote:I didn't see the game, are Wolves any good in the air at the back? do you think we can capitalise on any weaknesses there?
Re: Wolves v Man Utd
For all their good players they were very poor when we won 2-0 at the end of last season.
Re: Wolves v Man Utd
If the correct decisions get made then fans celebrating or not really doesn’t matter.Spijed wrote:But fans will stop celebrating altogether as they won't be sure if a goal is going to be given or not.
That will kill football!
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Don't base a team on one performance, they are a seriously good side.Spijed wrote:For all their good players they were very poor when we won 2-0 at the end of last season.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
They fielded a nearly 2nd XI v Pyunik but now so close I can see them starting a stronger side.Vegas Claret wrote:Wolves are good all over the pitch, will be a seriously tough game for every team that goes to Wolves for sure never mind us ! A lot will depend on what team they field on Thursday away in Torino
Doherty came off injured tonight, but Traoré looked well up for it.
I can see us grinding out a result though, play on their fatigue and make it a tough game.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
So when do you suggest they play? It was the same for us last year.IanMcL wrote:All the help built in for the big clubs and yet Wolves are playing Monday, Thursday in Turin and then Sunday against the best. That seems ludicrous and unfair.
Do you think their league game against us should be postponed till later in the season to help them with their Europa Cup campaign?
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
This is the club who opted to go and play in China just days before a Europa League tie.IanMcL wrote:All the help built in for the big clubs and yet Wolves are playing Monday, Thursday in Turin and then Sunday against the best. That seems ludicrous and unfair.
And I'm not so sure we offer any help to any clubs playing in Europe.
Re: Wolves v Man Utd
The way their manager has been talking they're in the Europa to win it, with a tough game like Torino I think they'll be fielding a strong side out in Italy.Vegas Claret wrote:Wolves are good all over the pitch, will be a seriously tough game for every team that goes to Wolves for sure never mind us ! A lot will depend on what team they field on Thursday away in Torino
Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Of course it does. What's the point of even going to a game if there is no emotion?Dyched wrote:If the correct decisions get made then fans celebrating or not really doesn’t matter.
Imagine om future if fans and players just stand in silence waiting for a VAR check to confirm/deny a goal.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Fans come second imo.Spijed wrote:Of course it does. What's the point of even going to a game if there is no emotion?
Imagine om future if fans and players just stand in silence waiting for a VAR check to confirm/deny a goal.
The correct football decisions come first. Regardless of what fans think. For players to train all week to be done over by poor refereeing and then ignore the technology whats available is silly. There is too much riding on games to not use VAR. It’s not great I admit at the minute but with time it will improve and make the game better.
I don’t agree with it “killing the game”. That is a stupid stupid comment. Had VAR stopped Argentina celebrating when Maradona punched one in all those years ago? Would that have “killed the game” Or Henry handling the ball back in play to score? No.
Re: Wolves v Man Utd
1) How will VAR improve when penalty decisions are still subjective (Rodri v Spurs)?Dyched wrote:Fans come second imo.
The correct football decisions come first. Regardless of what fans think. For players to train all week to be done over by poor refereeing and then ignore the technology whats available is silly. There is too much riding on games to not use VAR. It’s not great I admit at the minute but with time it will improve and make the game better.
I don’t agree with it “killing the game”. That is a stupid stupid comment. Had VAR stopped Argentina celebrating when Maradona punched one in all those years ago? Would that have “killed the game” Or Henry handling the ball back in play to score? No.
2) The biggest part of football is the enjoyment of scoring a goal. How can fans enjoy magic moments (Barnes v Palace, for example) if there is some doubt over whether it will count.
Within a couple of seasons goal celebrations will be no more.
And when that happens, whats the point of even turning up?
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
football has been around for well over a hundred years, every game you have seen , either being there, or on TV all your great memories and talking points were pre VAR.
Now it is here it seems awkward and far too clinical. Just how much analysis do we crave? football was fine before this, who exactly wanted this technology introducing ?
I doubt anybody expected the euphoria of a goal to instantly be reduced to a silent crowd awaiting a big screen confirmation after what feels like an eternity.
Now it is here it seems awkward and far too clinical. Just how much analysis do we crave? football was fine before this, who exactly wanted this technology introducing ?
I doubt anybody expected the euphoria of a goal to instantly be reduced to a silent crowd awaiting a big screen confirmation after what feels like an eternity.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
I think Wolves, Everton and Leicester will all be quietly fancying their chances of breaking into the top 6 ahead of Chelsea this season.
Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Wile E Coyote wrote:football has been around for well over a hundred years, every game you have seen , either being there, or on TV all your great memories and talking points were pre VAR.
Now it is here it seems awkward and far too clinical. Just how much analysis do we crave? football was fine before this, who exactly wanted this technology introducing ?
I doubt anybody expected the euphoria of a goal to instantly be reduced to a silent crowd awaiting a big screen confirmation after what feels like an eternity.
Fine without it? Really?
Lampard vs Germany
Maradona vs England
Henry vs France
Just a few instances which would/could have changed the course of football history. If the correct decision had been made.
Re: Wolves v Man Utd
1) The ref/officials will have loads of different camera angles to make a decision. The ref was actually looking at the main pack of players and it was impossible for him to make a decision.Spijed wrote:1) How will VAR improve when penalty decisions are still subjective (Rodri v Spurs)?
2) The biggest part of football is the enjoyment of scoring a goal. How can fans enjoy magic moments (Barnes v Palace, for example) if there is some doubt over whether it will count.
Within a couple of seasons goal celebrations will be no more.
And when that happens, whats the point of even turning up?
2) As fans yes. As players possibly yes too. But if the players get to walk off the pitch with the correct decisions made then that is all that matters.
Fans are ooking at it purely from their pov. Like football belongs to them. That football is only about fans. It’s a professional sport that professional athletes compete at a very high level where simple decisions are being called wrong and costing teams massively. Whatever technology there is to help it must be used to help.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Lampard’s goal counting would have made no difference,Germany were streets ahead of us.Dyched wrote:Fine without it? Really?
Lampard vs Germany
Maradona vs England
Henry vs France
Just a few instances which would/could have changed the course of football history. If the correct decision had been made.
Maradonna didn’t need need VAR just a linesman and referee fit for purpose.
Henry was cheating. France should have been expelled, as an example.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Dyched wrote:Fine without it? Really?
Lampard vs Germany
Maradona vs England
Henry vs France
Just a few instances which would/could have changed the course of football history. If the correct decision had been made.
I don't think it would have made any difference at Agincourt, we still would have won.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
thousands of games got you hooked on football, you accepted the officials decisions, because that was football. Harking back to a few key english games is irrelevantDyched wrote:Fine without it? Really?
Lampard vs Germany
Maradona vs England
Henry vs France
Just a few instances which would/could have changed the course of football history. If the correct decision had been made.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Dyched wrote:Fans come second imo.
The correct football decisions come first. Regardless of what fans think. For players to train all week to be done over by poor refereeing and then ignore the technology whats available is silly. There is too much riding on games to not use VAR. It’s not great I admit at the minute but with time it will improve and make the game better.
I don’t agree with it “killing the game”. That is a stupid stupid comment. Had VAR stopped Argentina celebrating when Maradona punched one in all those years ago? Would that have “killed the game” Or Henry handling the ball back in play to score? No.
In Australia we’ve had VAR 2 years now. The game is slowly dying. 3 years ago the game was making big in roads into AFL & Rugby League territory. VAR arrived and the first year there were that many mistakes made, the decisions got slower and slower. For me I stopped going to games and started watching on tv. But it go worse, and slower. I don’t even watch on tv anymore. VAR will not improve the quality of the game, it won’t improve the match day experience. The saddest part is, it only improves the couch sitting fans viewing, and gives the pundits something else to talk about.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
If you're going to reference significant events in world football history,surely you have to bring up 1966,and England's debatable 3rd goal,arguably the most famous controversy ever in the game.
VAR has got most calls right so far,but even with VAR they're has been an obvious penalty for Man City missed,and other decisions which make you raise your eyes.
On balance i think the introduction of VAR will benefit the less fashionable PL teams,so it should assist Burnley by and large,but the major issue is the lack of communication with the fans in the stadiums,the armchair fans can see the replays from several different angles,and also have the commentators to explain the thought process behind the final decision,for the fans in the ground they sometimes don't even know why a goal has been disallowed.
VAR has got most calls right so far,but even with VAR they're has been an obvious penalty for Man City missed,and other decisions which make you raise your eyes.
On balance i think the introduction of VAR will benefit the less fashionable PL teams,so it should assist Burnley by and large,but the major issue is the lack of communication with the fans in the stadiums,the armchair fans can see the replays from several different angles,and also have the commentators to explain the thought process behind the final decision,for the fans in the ground they sometimes don't even know why a goal has been disallowed.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
I bet it doesn'ttiger76 wrote:On balance i think the introduction of VAR will benefit the less fashionable PL teams,so it should assist Burnley by and large
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
You old cynicClaretTony wrote:I bet it doesn't
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Old maybe, a realist yes.tiger76 wrote:You old cynic
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
To quote Mitchell and WebbDyched wrote:Fine without it? Really?
Lampard vs Germany
Maradona vs England
Henry vs France
Just a few instances which would/could have changed the course of football history. If the correct decision had been made.
"It will never truly be decided who has won the football"
So I'd rather enjoy it in the moment than pine about a few famous mistakes.
Striving for the perfectly adjudicated game will rob football of it's soul.
Re: Wolves v Man Utd
There are two big things wrong with VAR.
1. It has changed the offside rule. Last year you could have looked at Wolves' goal, seen in two seconds that the players were level, and played on. This year, the rule has changed. There is no such thing as level, and it has become literally impossible for a linesman to judge close offsides. There is no way a lineman can compare one man's shoulder with another man's boot. They need to go back to the rule of level being onside, and level meaning as seen in normal vision, so that VAR can be used just to correct mistakes, rather than to male fine judgements that have become impossible for refs.
2. VAR should only be used for clear and obvious errors. They say that is what they use it for, but they are lying to themselves. IMO a VAR decision should only be overruled if it is beyond doubt - so much so that the majority of the fans of the team that it goes against will see it is fair enough. If the VAR reversal leads to further arguments and discussion, then they shouldn't have reversed it.
(They could also abolish the fingernail handball rule in the penalty area while they're at it. Blatant goals like Arsenal's against us, or Vokes' against Leicester, are already covered by the new "body shape" rule without adding the "no goal from the hand" rule.)
1. It has changed the offside rule. Last year you could have looked at Wolves' goal, seen in two seconds that the players were level, and played on. This year, the rule has changed. There is no such thing as level, and it has become literally impossible for a linesman to judge close offsides. There is no way a lineman can compare one man's shoulder with another man's boot. They need to go back to the rule of level being onside, and level meaning as seen in normal vision, so that VAR can be used just to correct mistakes, rather than to male fine judgements that have become impossible for refs.
2. VAR should only be used for clear and obvious errors. They say that is what they use it for, but they are lying to themselves. IMO a VAR decision should only be overruled if it is beyond doubt - so much so that the majority of the fans of the team that it goes against will see it is fair enough. If the VAR reversal leads to further arguments and discussion, then they shouldn't have reversed it.
(They could also abolish the fingernail handball rule in the penalty area while they're at it. Blatant goals like Arsenal's against us, or Vokes' against Leicester, are already covered by the new "body shape" rule without adding the "no goal from the hand" rule.)
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
I'll say it again, only works if each team can "challenge" a decision that they feel is wrong. Would Manure have challenged that goal for being offside? I don't think so. Would Wolves have challenged the penalty - doubtful. Would Spurs have challenged Citeh's "winning" goal? Again - no. Game moves along and ref is in charge.
Unless it is obvious to everyone except the Ref, (who, again, IS in charge, on the pitch) that there has been a "clear and obvious" mistake - play the game
Unless it is obvious to everyone except the Ref, (who, again, IS in charge, on the pitch) that there has been a "clear and obvious" mistake - play the game
Re: Wolves v Man Utd
For all those whingeing about VAR it's the constant whingeing and sniping at officials by managers that has brought us to this point.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Who is the dodgy Brummie commentator?What he knows about football would fit on the head of a pin.
Wolves were disjointed and Manure are long way off a top 6 side.
Linguard was awful .Maguire is shaky at times and the praise he got from the commemators is not a true reflection of his actual ability.
Ben Mee and Tarks are much better defenders
Wolves were disjointed and Manure are long way off a top 6 side.
Linguard was awful .Maguire is shaky at times and the praise he got from the commemators is not a true reflection of his actual ability.
Ben Mee and Tarks are much better defenders
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Don’t they have VAR in Rugby League in Australia?RammyClaret61 wrote:In Australia we’ve had VAR 2 years now. The game is slowly dying. 3 years ago the game was making big in roads into AFL & Rugby League territory. VAR arrived and the first year there were that many mistakes made, the decisions got slower and slower. For me I stopped going to games and started watching on tv. But it go worse, and slower. I don’t even watch on tv anymore. VAR will not improve the quality of the game, it won’t improve the match day experience. The saddest part is, it only improves the couch sitting fans viewing, and gives the pundits something else to talk about.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
. laughs at this moronic statement.Woodleyclaret wrote: Ben Mee and Tarks are much better defenders
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
VAR could be ok if the rules changed, but the current application of it will ruin the game for most of us, and will most likely favour the bigger teams.
Pretty simple. Make it similar to cricket.
Each team has one (possibly 2) reviews per 90 minutes. They should be used only for clear and obvious errors. If you use your review and you're correct then you retain it, but if you're wrong you lose it.
This would mean that they wouldn't normally risk losing it frivolously until we reached the last few minutes of a game.
Someone above referenced Lampard's goal. I don't see how this is relevant. Has anyone suggested that we should abolish goal-line technology? It's clearly a good thing and is decided correctly within seconds with no interruption to the game.
Pretty simple. Make it similar to cricket.
Each team has one (possibly 2) reviews per 90 minutes. They should be used only for clear and obvious errors. If you use your review and you're correct then you retain it, but if you're wrong you lose it.
This would mean that they wouldn't normally risk losing it frivolously until we reached the last few minutes of a game.
Someone above referenced Lampard's goal. I don't see how this is relevant. Has anyone suggested that we should abolish goal-line technology? It's clearly a good thing and is decided correctly within seconds with no interruption to the game.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
How is that relevant? They have it in cricket and tennis as well. They're totally different sports.scouseclaret wrote:Don’t they have VAR in Rugby League in Australia?
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Totally agree but the fans are as bad. I bet a lot of those whinging about VAR are ones who like Dyche have constantly whinged and blamed refs for our own teams failings.jrgbfc wrote:For all those whingeing about VAR it's the constant whingeing and sniping at officials by managers that has brought us to this point.
You reap what you sow in this life and in this case unfortunately its VAR
Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Im hoping it makes it a level playing field all round and that can only be good for us as anyone outside the top 6 did not get the vital decisions in my opinion.ClaretTony wrote:I bet it doesn't
Re: Wolves v Man Utd
dandeclaret wrote:Imagine if you could have just celebrated that goal properly - an amazing, brilliant goal, rather than having all excitement sucked out of it.
The Wolves fans said it best....
"F*ck VAR, F*ck VAR" and repeat.
If you score celebrate and if its given carry on - if ruled out stop simples.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Because Rammy was suggesting that VAR was responsible for turning Aussie fans away from football and back towards AFL and RL. I don’t see any qualitative difference between checking a try and checking a goal, and they seem to have made it work on RL.nil_desperandum wrote:How is that relevant? They have it in cricket and tennis as well. They're totally different sports.
Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Saturday is a longer break to Thursday.nil_desperandum wrote:So when do you suggest they play? It was the same for us last year.
Do you think their league game against us should be postponed till later in the season to help them with their Europa Cup campaign?
Thursday to Sunday, is unavoidable.
Mon-Thurs-Sun is unnecessary.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd
Soul? You’re having a laugh, what soul? This isn’t the manager taking the kits home to wash whilst the leading goalscorer cleans the bogs. This is top level football and decisions being wrong and costing teams. There is too much at stake here.CombatClaret wrote:To quote Mitchell and Webb
"It will never truly be decided who has won the football"
So I'd rather enjoy it in the moment than pine about a few famous mistakes.
Striving for the perfectly adjudicated game will rob football of it's soul.