Wolves v Man Utd

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Vegas Claret
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:42 pm

since when is a shoulder handball ?

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Bosscat » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:43 pm

ClaretTony wrote:To get to four pens in the Premier League you have to go back to Feb 2017, Gray at Swansea.
Exactly ......

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:45 pm

Bosscat wrote:Exactly ......
Strangely the Swansea pen, which was an awful decision from Taylor, was our fifth of six in 2016/17 but then none in 2017/18 and only two last season.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Spijed » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:45 pm

Dyched wrote:Yeah lets start giving illegal goals so fans can celebrate.
But fans will stop celebrating altogether as they won't be sure if a goal is going to be given or not.

That will kill football!
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by ElectroClaret » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:47 pm

Not quite an £85 million back pass from Maguire, there. 8-)

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by South West Claret. » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:58 pm

I didn't see the game, are Wolves any good in the air at the back? do you think we can capitalise on any weaknesses there?

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:04 pm

South West Claret. wrote:I didn't see the game, are Wolves any good in the air at the back? do you think we can capitalise on any weaknesses there?
Wolves are good all over the pitch, will be a seriously tough game for every team that goes to Wolves for sure never mind us ! A lot will depend on what team they field on Thursday away in Torino

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Spijed » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:07 pm

For all their good players they were very poor when we won 2-0 at the end of last season.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Dyched » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:08 pm

Spijed wrote:But fans will stop celebrating altogether as they won't be sure if a goal is going to be given or not.

That will kill football!
If the correct decisions get made then fans celebrating or not really doesn’t matter.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:10 pm

Spijed wrote:For all their good players they were very poor when we won 2-0 at the end of last season.
Don't base a team on one performance, they are a seriously good side.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by CombatClaret » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:10 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:Wolves are good all over the pitch, will be a seriously tough game for every team that goes to Wolves for sure never mind us ! A lot will depend on what team they field on Thursday away in Torino
They fielded a nearly 2nd XI v Pyunik but now so close I can see them starting a stronger side.
Doherty came off injured tonight, but Traoré looked well up for it.

I can see us grinding out a result though, play on their fatigue and make it a tough game.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by nil_desperandum » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:12 pm

IanMcL wrote:All the help built in for the big clubs and yet Wolves are playing Monday, Thursday in Turin and then Sunday against the best. That seems ludicrous and unfair.
So when do you suggest they play? It was the same for us last year.
Do you think their league game against us should be postponed till later in the season to help them with their Europa Cup campaign?

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:18 pm

IanMcL wrote:All the help built in for the big clubs and yet Wolves are playing Monday, Thursday in Turin and then Sunday against the best. That seems ludicrous and unfair.
This is the club who opted to go and play in China just days before a Europa League tie.

And I'm not so sure we offer any help to any clubs playing in Europe.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by jrgbfc » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:20 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:Wolves are good all over the pitch, will be a seriously tough game for every team that goes to Wolves for sure never mind us ! A lot will depend on what team they field on Thursday away in Torino
The way their manager has been talking they're in the Europa to win it, with a tough game like Torino I think they'll be fielding a strong side out in Italy.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Spijed » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:24 pm

Dyched wrote:If the correct decisions get made then fans celebrating or not really doesn’t matter.
Of course it does. What's the point of even going to a game if there is no emotion?

Imagine om future if fans and players just stand in silence waiting for a VAR check to confirm/deny a goal.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Dyched » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:34 pm

Spijed wrote:Of course it does. What's the point of even going to a game if there is no emotion?

Imagine om future if fans and players just stand in silence waiting for a VAR check to confirm/deny a goal.
Fans come second imo.

The correct football decisions come first. Regardless of what fans think. For players to train all week to be done over by poor refereeing and then ignore the technology whats available is silly. There is too much riding on games to not use VAR. It’s not great I admit at the minute but with time it will improve and make the game better.

I don’t agree with it “killing the game”. That is a stupid stupid comment. Had VAR stopped Argentina celebrating when Maradona punched one in all those years ago? Would that have “killed the game” Or Henry handling the ball back in play to score? No.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Spijed » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:45 pm

Dyched wrote:Fans come second imo.

The correct football decisions come first. Regardless of what fans think. For players to train all week to be done over by poor refereeing and then ignore the technology whats available is silly. There is too much riding on games to not use VAR. It’s not great I admit at the minute but with time it will improve and make the game better.

I don’t agree with it “killing the game”. That is a stupid stupid comment. Had VAR stopped Argentina celebrating when Maradona punched one in all those years ago? Would that have “killed the game” Or Henry handling the ball back in play to score? No.
1) How will VAR improve when penalty decisions are still subjective (Rodri v Spurs)?

2) The biggest part of football is the enjoyment of scoring a goal. How can fans enjoy magic moments (Barnes v Palace, for example) if there is some doubt over whether it will count.

Within a couple of seasons goal celebrations will be no more.

And when that happens, whats the point of even turning up?

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Wile E Coyote » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:49 pm

football has been around for well over a hundred years, every game you have seen , either being there, or on TV all your great memories and talking points were pre VAR.
Now it is here it seems awkward and far too clinical. Just how much analysis do we crave? football was fine before this, who exactly wanted this technology introducing ?
I doubt anybody expected the euphoria of a goal to instantly be reduced to a silent crowd awaiting a big screen confirmation after what feels like an eternity.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by jrgbfc » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:51 pm

I think Wolves, Everton and Leicester will all be quietly fancying their chances of breaking into the top 6 ahead of Chelsea this season.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Dyched » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:09 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:football has been around for well over a hundred years, every game you have seen , either being there, or on TV all your great memories and talking points were pre VAR.
Now it is here it seems awkward and far too clinical. Just how much analysis do we crave? football was fine before this, who exactly wanted this technology introducing ?
I doubt anybody expected the euphoria of a goal to instantly be reduced to a silent crowd awaiting a big screen confirmation after what feels like an eternity.


Fine without it? Really?

Lampard vs Germany
Maradona vs England
Henry vs France

Just a few instances which would/could have changed the course of football history. If the correct decision had been made.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Dyched » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:15 pm

Spijed wrote:1) How will VAR improve when penalty decisions are still subjective (Rodri v Spurs)?

2) The biggest part of football is the enjoyment of scoring a goal. How can fans enjoy magic moments (Barnes v Palace, for example) if there is some doubt over whether it will count.

Within a couple of seasons goal celebrations will be no more.

And when that happens, whats the point of even turning up?
1) The ref/officials will have loads of different camera angles to make a decision. The ref was actually looking at the main pack of players and it was impossible for him to make a decision.

2) As fans yes. As players possibly yes too. But if the players get to walk off the pitch with the correct decisions made then that is all that matters.

Fans are ooking at it purely from their pov. Like football belongs to them. That football is only about fans. It’s a professional sport that professional athletes compete at a very high level where simple decisions are being called wrong and costing teams massively. Whatever technology there is to help it must be used to help.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:17 pm

Dyched wrote:Fine without it? Really?

Lampard vs Germany
Maradona vs England
Henry vs France

Just a few instances which would/could have changed the course of football history. If the correct decision had been made.
Lampard’s goal counting would have made no difference,Germany were streets ahead of us.
Maradonna didn’t need need VAR just a linesman and referee fit for purpose.
Henry was cheating. France should have been expelled, as an example.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by ClaretLoup » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:23 pm

Dyched wrote:Fine without it? Really?

Lampard vs Germany
Maradona vs England
Henry vs France

Just a few instances which would/could have changed the course of football history. If the correct decision had been made.

I don't think it would have made any difference at Agincourt, we still would have won.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Wile E Coyote » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:27 pm

Dyched wrote:Fine without it? Really?

Lampard vs Germany
Maradona vs England
Henry vs France

Just a few instances which would/could have changed the course of football history. If the correct decision had been made.
thousands of games got you hooked on football, you accepted the officials decisions, because that was football. Harking back to a few key english games is irrelevant
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by RammyClaret61 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:42 pm

Dyched wrote:Fans come second imo.

The correct football decisions come first. Regardless of what fans think. For players to train all week to be done over by poor refereeing and then ignore the technology whats available is silly. There is too much riding on games to not use VAR. It’s not great I admit at the minute but with time it will improve and make the game better.

I don’t agree with it “killing the game”. That is a stupid stupid comment. Had VAR stopped Argentina celebrating when Maradona punched one in all those years ago? Would that have “killed the game” Or Henry handling the ball back in play to score? No.

In Australia we’ve had VAR 2 years now. The game is slowly dying. 3 years ago the game was making big in roads into AFL & Rugby League territory. VAR arrived and the first year there were that many mistakes made, the decisions got slower and slower. For me I stopped going to games and started watching on tv. But it go worse, and slower. I don’t even watch on tv anymore. VAR will not improve the quality of the game, it won’t improve the match day experience. The saddest part is, it only improves the couch sitting fans viewing, and gives the pundits something else to talk about.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by tiger76 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:51 pm

If you're going to reference significant events in world football history,surely you have to bring up 1966,and England's debatable 3rd goal,arguably the most famous controversy ever in the game.

VAR has got most calls right so far,but even with VAR they're has been an obvious penalty for Man City missed,and other decisions which make you raise your eyes.

On balance i think the introduction of VAR will benefit the less fashionable PL teams,so it should assist Burnley by and large,but the major issue is the lack of communication with the fans in the stadiums,the armchair fans can see the replays from several different angles,and also have the commentators to explain the thought process behind the final decision,for the fans in the ground they sometimes don't even know why a goal has been disallowed.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:56 pm

tiger76 wrote:On balance i think the introduction of VAR will benefit the less fashionable PL teams,so it should assist Burnley by and large
I bet it doesn't
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by tiger76 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:02 am

ClaretTony wrote:I bet it doesn't
You old cynic :lol:

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:04 am

tiger76 wrote:You old cynic :lol:
Old maybe, a realist yes. :D

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by CombatClaret » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:25 am

Dyched wrote:Fine without it? Really?

Lampard vs Germany
Maradona vs England
Henry vs France

Just a few instances which would/could have changed the course of football history. If the correct decision had been made.
To quote Mitchell and Webb

"It will never truly be decided who has won the football"

So I'd rather enjoy it in the moment than pine about a few famous mistakes.
Striving for the perfectly adjudicated game will rob football of it's soul.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by dsr » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:05 am

There are two big things wrong with VAR.

1. It has changed the offside rule. Last year you could have looked at Wolves' goal, seen in two seconds that the players were level, and played on. This year, the rule has changed. There is no such thing as level, and it has become literally impossible for a linesman to judge close offsides. There is no way a lineman can compare one man's shoulder with another man's boot. They need to go back to the rule of level being onside, and level meaning as seen in normal vision, so that VAR can be used just to correct mistakes, rather than to male fine judgements that have become impossible for refs.

2. VAR should only be used for clear and obvious errors. They say that is what they use it for, but they are lying to themselves. IMO a VAR decision should only be overruled if it is beyond doubt - so much so that the majority of the fans of the team that it goes against will see it is fair enough. If the VAR reversal leads to further arguments and discussion, then they shouldn't have reversed it.

(They could also abolish the fingernail handball rule in the penalty area while they're at it. Blatant goals like Arsenal's against us, or Vokes' against Leicester, are already covered by the new "body shape" rule without adding the "no goal from the hand" rule.)
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Lord_Bob » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:15 am

I'll say it again, only works if each team can "challenge" a decision that they feel is wrong. Would Manure have challenged that goal for being offside? I don't think so. Would Wolves have challenged the penalty - doubtful. Would Spurs have challenged Citeh's "winning" goal? Again - no. Game moves along and ref is in charge.

Unless it is obvious to everyone except the Ref, (who, again, IS in charge, on the pitch) that there has been a "clear and obvious" mistake - play the game

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by jrgbfc » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:12 am

For all those whingeing about VAR it's the constant whingeing and sniping at officials by managers that has brought us to this point.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Woodleyclaret » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:32 am

Who is the dodgy Brummie commentator?What he knows about football would fit on the head of a pin.
Wolves were disjointed and Manure are long way off a top 6 side.
Linguard was awful .Maguire is shaky at times and the praise he got from the commemators is not a true reflection of his actual ability.
Ben Mee and Tarks are much better defenders

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by scouseclaret » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:32 am

RammyClaret61 wrote:In Australia we’ve had VAR 2 years now. The game is slowly dying. 3 years ago the game was making big in roads into AFL & Rugby League territory. VAR arrived and the first year there were that many mistakes made, the decisions got slower and slower. For me I stopped going to games and started watching on tv. But it go worse, and slower. I don’t even watch on tv anymore. VAR will not improve the quality of the game, it won’t improve the match day experience. The saddest part is, it only improves the couch sitting fans viewing, and gives the pundits something else to talk about.
Don’t they have VAR in Rugby League in Australia?

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Jeremy_Bentham » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:47 am

Woodleyclaret wrote: Ben Mee and Tarks are much better defenders
. laughs at this moronic statement.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by nil_desperandum » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:25 am

VAR could be ok if the rules changed, but the current application of it will ruin the game for most of us, and will most likely favour the bigger teams.
Pretty simple. Make it similar to cricket.
Each team has one (possibly 2) reviews per 90 minutes. They should be used only for clear and obvious errors. If you use your review and you're correct then you retain it, but if you're wrong you lose it.
This would mean that they wouldn't normally risk losing it frivolously until we reached the last few minutes of a game.
Someone above referenced Lampard's goal. I don't see how this is relevant. Has anyone suggested that we should abolish goal-line technology? It's clearly a good thing and is decided correctly within seconds with no interruption to the game.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by nil_desperandum » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:26 am

scouseclaret wrote:Don’t they have VAR in Rugby League in Australia?
How is that relevant? They have it in cricket and tennis as well. They're totally different sports.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:44 am

jrgbfc wrote:For all those whingeing about VAR it's the constant whingeing and sniping at officials by managers that has brought us to this point.
Totally agree but the fans are as bad. I bet a lot of those whinging about VAR are ones who like Dyche have constantly whinged and blamed refs for our own teams failings.

You reap what you sow in this life and in this case unfortunately its VAR

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by BOYSIE31 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:52 am

ClaretTony wrote:I bet it doesn't
Im hoping it makes it a level playing field all round and that can only be good for us as anyone outside the top 6 did not get the vital decisions in my opinion.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by BOYSIE31 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:55 am

dandeclaret wrote:Imagine if you could have just celebrated that goal properly - an amazing, brilliant goal, rather than having all excitement sucked out of it.

The Wolves fans said it best....

"F*ck VAR, F*ck VAR" and repeat.

If you score celebrate and if its given carry on - if ruled out stop simples.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by scouseclaret » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:05 am

nil_desperandum wrote:How is that relevant? They have it in cricket and tennis as well. They're totally different sports.
Because Rammy was suggesting that VAR was responsible for turning Aussie fans away from football and back towards AFL and RL. I don’t see any qualitative difference between checking a try and checking a goal, and they seem to have made it work on RL.

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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by IanMcL » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:14 am

nil_desperandum wrote:So when do you suggest they play? It was the same for us last year.
Do you think their league game against us should be postponed till later in the season to help them with their Europa Cup campaign?
Saturday is a longer break to Thursday.
Thursday to Sunday, is unavoidable.
Mon-Thurs-Sun is unnecessary.
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Re: Wolves v Man Utd

Post by Dyched » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:20 am

CombatClaret wrote:To quote Mitchell and Webb

"It will never truly be decided who has won the football"

So I'd rather enjoy it in the moment than pine about a few famous mistakes.
Striving for the perfectly adjudicated game will rob football of it's soul.
Soul? You’re having a laugh, what soul? This isn’t the manager taking the kits home to wash whilst the leading goalscorer cleans the bogs. This is top level football and decisions being wrong and costing teams. There is too much at stake here.

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