England v Australia 3rd Ashes Test

IWOODLOVETT · Post by **IWOODLOVETT** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:23 pm

Bairstow to open with Burns, Foakes to keep wicket, Roy orButtler in middle order, Woakes to make way for Jimmy (but only if 100% match fit

dandeclaret · Post by **dandeclaret** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:30 pm

Spijed wrote:On the BBC commentary they had a damning stat regarding Roy that apparently he's never batted for over 3.5 hours in an innings in his entire career.

How can you ever expect a team to build an innings when your opening batsman is more interested in slogging every ball for a four or six as opposed to occupying the crease?

When has Roy been out slogging in this series? When has he tried to hit balls for 4 or 6? He isn’t a 4 day opener, but, in the absence of other suitable players, he was tried with the hope it would work in an adam Gilchrist way. It hasn’t yet, but let’s not pretend that’s because he’s been slogging.

Your cricket posts over the years have always been strange (Shane Wayne can’t be world class cos he wouldn’t be recognised walking down the street in China a personal favourite) but these latest ones make very little sense.

WadingInDeeper · Post by **WadingInDeeper** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:36 pm

Determined batting from root and stokes, change in tempo from Barstow when it was needed, that final 30mins or so from stokes which looked to demoralize the Aussies and leach doing exactly what was needed, excellent end to a test match.

Add in the aussies dropped catch, missed run out, throwing to the wrong end, and bowlers looking to have run out of ideas to stokes just made it better.

dandeclaret · Post by **dandeclaret** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:38 pm

The only depressing thing about the weekend, is that at the age of 42, I’ve now been to the best sporting occasion I will ever go to.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:43 pm

dandeclaret wrote:(Shane Wayne can’t be world class cos he wouldn’t be recognised walking down the street in China a personal favourite) but these latest ones make very little sense.

When have I ever said that?

Have you been taking drugs?

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:07 pm

I think it was said on commentary that this was the first time in over 130 years that a team had been dismissed for less than 70 on first innings and then gone on to win the Test match.

An Australian journalist wrote that greater than the humiliation of being bowled out for 67 was the humiliation of then losing to the team that had been bowled out for 67.

Fantastic win by England and the Series is still alive with all to play for.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:38 pm

dandeclaret wrote:When has Roy been out slogging in this series? When has he tried to hit balls for 4 or 6?

2nd innings of the first test.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:42 pm

Spijed wrote:When have I ever said that?

Have you been taking drugs?

Someone said it on the old board.

Not 100% sure it was you mind.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:59 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Someone said it on the old board.

Not 100% sure it was you mind.

Oh dear ----you had better ask for VAR to sort it out ---mistaken identity is one of its fortes

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:11 pm

Personally felt with that LBW against Stokes that his Stokes movement helped him. Because his trailing leg was so wide of the wickets a moment after the ball struck him. I think as the umpire looked at it he saw Stokes leg well wide off the stumps and adjudged the contact to have been at that moment. Not a second before when his leg was in front of the wicket.

The only reason the standard of umpiring has got worse is because of video playbacks and continiously replaying and slowing the action down. I bet if you went back 20, 30 years the same amount of wrong calls would still have been made.

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:28 pm

I think if you look at the lbw closely it flicks off stokes front pad which creates the deviation taking it on to his back leg I think without that it is slipping down leg with the angle. So not sure it was the howler some are saying it was . That said if it had been reviewed on the day it would’ve been given out. some days you need and deserve a bit of luck Sunday was Stokes turn.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:01 pm

What Glenn McGrath said on his review of the match. "Over the course of the full match Australia deserved to win, but it was taken away from them and it will hurt them."

Did they really deserve to win, I wonder what criteria he used to come up with that nugget. Surely England deserved to win because of the heroics of Stokes and Leach. I do agree they should have won but I wouldn't say they deserved to win, It's as if he thinks they have a divine right to win.

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:07 pm

Purely and simply cheating Australia moaning once again!

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:08 pm

Spijed wrote:Like with VAR, as soon as you bring in technology the standard of referees and umpires will go down as they expect that a review will make the correct decision anyway.

Don’t think that’s the case at all in cricket. Generally the standard of umpires at the top level is outstanding.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:11 pm

Firthy wrote:What Glenn McGrath said on his review of the match. "Over the course of the full match Australia deserved to win, but it was taken away from them and it will hurt them."

Did they really deserve to win, I wonder what criteria he used to come up with that nugget. Surely England deserved to win because of the heroics of Stokes and Leach. I do agree they should have won but I wouldn't say they deserved to win, It's as if he thinks they have a divine right to win.

Have you never come off a Burnley game when we've absolutely battered the other team but drew or lost thinking we deserved to win that? Plenty of Burnley fans thought we deserved to beat Wolves have you got a problem with them?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:15 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Don’t think that’s the case at all in cricket. Generally the standard of umpires at the top level is outstanding.

Some very poor LBW decisions recently though, especially from Joel Wilson.

Flying Without Ings · Post by **Flying Without Ings** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:26 pm

My first taste of test match cricket was going to day 4 on Sunday. No point going again as that day will never be topped.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:26 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Have you never come off a Burnley game when we've absolutely battered the other team but drew or lost thinking we deserved to win that? Plenty of Burnley fans thought we deserved to beat Wolves have you got a problem with them?

No comparison. Burnley did deserve to win but didn't because of a dubious penalty. Australia weren't the better team for most of the match and didb't batter us. Admitedly they had one really good day where they bowled us out for a low score but neither of their innings were great and you could say we battered them in our 2nd innings so we deserved the win.

Ric_C · Post by **Ric_C** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:55 pm

Got tickets for day 4 at Old Trafford.

Was seriously narked off when we were 67 all out, would totally have ruined the O/T test. But now, game on

Plenty of discussions to be had though:

Do you change a winning team?
Sam Curran - Has the X factor. Is he worth a shot?
Ollie Pope? - Must be given a chance
Foakes- Our best wicket keeper batsmen needs to play
Jimmy - Do we risk him? I'd say yes as I think this is the best chance we have of getting Smith out.
Roy - does he miss out, or does he drop down the order?
Root - Play him at 4 where he is most comfortable? Don't think we can due to a dearth of top order batsmen.
Buttler needs a rest

So I'd go with:

1. Burns
2. Denly or Bairstow
3. Root
4. Stokes
5. Roy
6. Pope
7. Foakes
8. Archer
9. Broad
10. Anderson or Woakes
11. Leach

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:06 pm

Spijed wrote:Some very poor LBW decisions recently though, especially from Joel Wilson.

Can't pick out individual decisions by one umpire, generally the quality of umpiring is outstanding.

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:11 pm

Curran has had some handy runs but his bowling doesn’t look good enough for me. Not tall enough, not quick enough.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:30 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Can't pick out individual decisions by one umpire, generally the quality of umpiring is outstanding.

That's correct but Wilson has been woeful this series.
In the 1st test there were a record 10 decisions overturned and 8 of them were errors by Wilson. All umpires get marginal decisions wrong at times, but he's been getting some fairly straightforward ones badly wrong.
( He was only 3rd Umpire at Lords, and made further errors at Headingley)

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:34 pm

Ric_C wrote:
1. Burns
2. Denly or Bairstow
3. Root
4. Stokes
5. Roy
6. Pope
7. Foakes
8. Archer
9. Broad
10. Anderson or Woakes
11. Leach

A bit odd I think that you'd select Roy at 5 and consider omitting Bairstow, who overall has a good batting record at No. 5 or 6.
Why would Roy's technique be any better at 5 than it is when he's opening?. If you're going to have a "one day" player in the middle order then you may as well stick with Buttler who has at least played some long innings in the past.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:34 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:That's correct but Wilson has been woeful this series.
In the 1st test there were a record 10 decisions overturned and 8 of them were errors by Wilson. All umpires get marginal decisions wrong at times, but he's been getting some fairly straightforward ones badly wrong.
( He was only 3rd Umpire at Lords, and made further errors at Headingley)

Agree with that, he's like the Jon Moss of test umpiring is Wilson, but there are some outstanding ones to go alongside him.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:35 pm

"can't pick out individual decisions by one umpire, generally the quality of umpiring is outstanding"

The numbers paint a completely different picture. By lunch on the final day of the Leeds Test, the players had reviewed Wilson's decisions on 12 occasions, 8 were overturned and 4 struck down. Aleem Dar faired only marginally better. Those figures do not reflect "outstanding umpiring" which in the 3rd Test was littered with mistakes.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:37 pm

kentonclaret wrote:"can't pick out individual decisions by one umpire, generally the quality of umpiring is outstanding"

The numbers paint a completely different picture. By lunch on the final day of the Leeds Test, the players had reviewed Wilson's decisions on 12 occasions, 8 were overturned and 4 struck down. Aleem Dar faired only marginally better. Those figures do not reflect "outstanding umpiring" which in the 3rd Test was littered with mistakes.

As I said, I wasn't picking out individual umpires or individual matches, but generally the standard of test umpiring.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:45 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Agree with that, he's like the Jon Moss of test umpiring is Wilson, but there are some outstanding ones to go alongside him.

Now there's a question for you. How do some referees and umpires who make so many mistakes on a regular basis still manage to officiate at the highest level?

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:11 pm

My team assuming no injuries would be
Burns
Denly
Root
Stokes
Bairstow wk
Roy
Pope
Archer
Leach
Broad
Anderson ( Woakes if Jimmy unfit and would bat 8)

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:32 pm

Anderson out of the series.

That injury has been really badly managed.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:35 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Anderson out of the series.

That injury has been really badly managed.

Sadly, probably nearing the end of his test career as well.

Burnley1989 · Post by **Burnley1989** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:35 pm

luckily I don't think its the bowling department we are struggling in, both teams are very strong in that department.

You'll always miss a Jimmy though and I suspect this would have been his last Ashes anyway

Flying Without Ings · Post by **Flying Without Ings** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:59 pm

Arise Sir Jof

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:00 pm

I would not be at all surprised for Australia if Paine makes way for Alex Carey who has been in superb form with the bat for Sussex. His current spell with Sussex cut short so that he could keep wicket against Derbyshire.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:12 pm

kentonclaret wrote:I would not be at all surprised for Australia if Paine makes way for Alex Carey who has been in superb form with the bat for Sussex. His current spell with Sussex cut short so that he could keep wicket against Derbyshire.

Surely they can't drop the captain though? I was thinking earlier with Paine playing they're essentially a man down he offers so little with the bat.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:17 pm

The Aussies can be ruthless when it comes to selection and Paine took a lot of the flak that was flying around over a number of tactical decisions and also dodgy referrals.

Not saying it's a "done deal" by any means just saying "don't be surprised".

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:47 pm

I suspect we have seen the last of Jimmy in test cricket. Pity as I was hoping he would get to 600 wickets but at 37 he has had a remarkable career for a fast bowler.
I wonder if this is a similar problem to Defour?

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:00 pm

This Critchley bloke needs to come in, just got Smith out in the tour game at Derby!

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:01 pm

jrgbfc wrote:Surely they can't drop the captain though? I was thinking earlier with Paine playing they're essentially a man down he offers so little with the bat.

Smith was always going to step back into the captaincy at some point. Wonder if it is too soon for that still.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:35 pm

kentonclaret wrote:The Aussies can be ruthless when it comes to selection and Paine took a lot of the flak that was flying around over a number of tactical decisions and also dodgy referrals.

Not saying it's a "done deal" by any means just saying "don't be surprised".

It seemed as though Smith was doing a lot of the captaining in the first 2 Tests anyway! Yeah Paine cost the Aussies big time at Headingley wasting that stupid review.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:46 pm

Have a bad feeling about this test in that the Aussies will want revenge. Will be a great shame were they to win thus putting us back to square one.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:46 pm

They may well stick with Paine, but just seemed odd to cut short Alex Carey's loan spell at Sussex where he had been scoring lots of runs just so that he could keep wicket in a friendly match against Derbyshire. Wade could have kept wicket in that match if Paine needed a rest.

A lot more exciting cricket to come in this Series weather permitting of course.