• How long will we accept this?

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:01 pm**

First and foremost we are in a great position. Healthy off the field and generally each year doing well in the league.

And yes. There are plenty of Bolton and Burys.

But there will come a time where taking one of these cups seriously will be a must. It’s beyond frustrating now the contempt with which we continue to show any cup we enter.

Sport and competition is about winning things. Not balance sheets. Not aiming for 17th.

Dyches legacy at Burnley is cemented forever. But he could become a legend beyond any of his wildest dreams if we win a cup. And that includes the league cup.

This competition ends before spring has started. It’s a short competition. With a great chance of progressing to a final. And it’s a great opportunity for us to win silverware.

But year after year we are knocked out by teams way below us in the league.

As most of course I’m happy with the squad and the league performance. But people paid a lot of money and some travelled a long way tonight to watch that. To me it’s very disappointing that we don’t want to compete. And one of the reasons the bury and Bolton’s find themselves in the mess they are. Everyone’s aim is seemingly the money. And chasing that premier league cash cow. At the expense of actual success.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:02 pm**

Could not agree more, but I don't see it changing and that is purely down to money.

I don't want to think we throw these competitions, but I would be very, very interested to see with what intensity we train towards the cup fixtures, and how Dyche carries out his pre-match briefing compared to a league game.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:03 pm**

If we don't beat Liverpool on Saturday, sack him.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:03 pm**

Success is keeping in the Premier League not getting to last 4 of a cup

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:04 pm**

For as long as we stay in the Premier League.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:05 pm**

Like I said last season, if we finish 17th, post profits, the books look great, and freeze season tickets AGAIN, then everyone it seems is happy ( or told they should be )

That's they way it's going to be.
We've been told so several times by both the chairman and manager. So if they CBA , then neither can I unless it suits me.

I'm genuinely surprised why people keep going on then moaning about it ( not that you are, just in general )

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:05 pm**

Till the cows come home.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:05 pm**

I attended tonight but really can't be arsed with any of the cup competitions. For me the Premier league is the be all and end all.
We have our cup finals every time we play a premier league game

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:06 pm**

cricketfieldclarets wrote:First and foremost we are in a great position. Healthy off the field and generally each year doing well in the league.

And yes. There are plenty of Bolton and Burys.

But there will come a time where taking one of these cups seriously will be a must. It’s beyond frustrating now the contempt with which we continue to show any cup we enter.

Sport and competition is about winning things. Not balance sheets. Not aiming for 17th.

Dyches legacy at Burnley is cemented forever. But he could become a legend beyond any of his wildest dreams if we win a cup. And that includes the league cup.

This competition ends before spring has started. It’s a short competition. With a great chance of progressing to a final. And it’s a great opportunity for us to win silverware.

But year after year we are knocked out by teams way below us in the league.

As most of course I’m happy with the squad and the league performance. But people paid a lot of money and some travelled a long way tonight to watch that. To me it’s very disappointing that we don’t want to compete. And one of the reasons the bury and Bolton’s find themselves in the mess they are. Everyone’s aim is seemingly the money. And chasing that premier league cash cow. At the expense of actual success.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:06 pm**

I agree completely. I always thought I'd hate to support one of those clubs in the Prem who had no ambition other than finishing 17th every year and banking more TV money. Now it seems that's what we've become. It's hard to get excited by the prospect of a relegation battle every year.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:06 pm**

The attitude to cup games is the one thing that I really dislike about the Dyche era.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:07 pm**

Can't argue with that post

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:08 pm**

I expect all the training and tactics this week have been focused on the Liverpool game. This has been used as a fitness game for players not in the starting eleven. I don’t think it has been given much thought or serious preparation now but just an assumption that they should be good enough. No pressure from above as the board are more interested in the PL.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:08 pm**

That XI should have been good enough to beat a League One team

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:09 pm**

MACCA wrote:Like I said last season, if we finish 17th, post profits, the books look great, and freeze season tickets AGAIN, then everyone it seems is happy ( or told they should be )

That's they way it's going to be.
We've been told so several times by both the chairman and manager. So if they CBA , then neither can I unless it suits me.

I'm genuinely surprised why people keep going on then moaning about it ( not that you are, just in general )

Completely agree.

And tonight was the first cup game I’ve missed in as long as I can remember. Purely because if they can’t be arsed neither can I.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:10 pm**

ZizkovClaret wrote:That XI should have been good enough to beat a League One team

A league 1 team that made 8 changes.

It was their 2nd string too

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:11 pm**

ZizkovClaret wrote:That XI should have been good enough to beat a League One team

A league one team who made 8 changes as well.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:13 pm**

That thought process is a good part of the reason that, for the first time in twenty years, I'm not a ST holder and am unlikely to attend even a handful of matches this season.
Perhaps you can perpetually find people who believe that it's a "cup final" every time we play Watford or Bournemouth. But I'm not sure.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:13 pm**

Our supporters’ attitudes to cups and the 17th position in the Premier League are a generational thing. A lot of people would be happy with 17th and first round cup exits till the end of time.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:15 pm**

DAVETHEVICAR wrote:Success is keeping in the Premier League not getting to last 4 of a cup

Why can't we do both,we meekly went out to a 2nd string League 1 team tonight,at some point in the next few years we're likely to be relegated anyway that's just reality,surely we should try and go further in the cups,we might not win one but it creates excitement for the fans,Swansea have won the League Cup in recent times,and i don't believe their squad was any better than our current bunch.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:18 pm**

It's a difficult one, but I have to admit I cared more about us beating Southampton than Sunderland tonight. And I'm old as well.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:18 pm**

DAVETHEVICAR wrote:Success is keeping in the Premier League not getting to last 4 of a cup

Getting to the final would be 6 extra games.

Playing in the championship is 8 extra games. We went 6 months unbeaten in that league. We got promoted from it the time we got to the semi of this cup.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:18 pm**

For as long as we’re in the Premier League, in reality.

If we had 30 points by Christmas, I’m convinced we’d have a do at the FA Cup. Indeed, we would have the season we finished 7th but we ended up getting drawn away at Man City.

The League Cup will never ever be a priority for Dyche, in my opinion.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:20 pm**

Erasmus wrote:It's a difficult one, but I have to admit I cared more about us beating Southampton than Sunderland tonight. And I'm old as well.

That’s fair comment. But I’ve no doubt that that’s in part due to the contempt we treat this and every cup.

Let’s put it this way.

Let’s say the Southampton game was in March. And we were 4 points above the drop zone. And the Sunderland game was the semi final the same week.

What would you genuinely feel in that case about each game!?

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:20 pm**

I sympathise with the changes because we play Liverpool in 3 days who do not have a game this week.

But he has by far the worst record in our history in cups, certainly relative to League position.

I strongly suspect the team subconsciously cannot get up for it because they feel the manager would prefer us to lose. It is my suspicion. It disrupts all the planning for the weekend as well as tiring the players (even the ones watching from the bench will be home late). Dyche would dispute that of course but I struggle to find another hypothesis for this run of results.

On the flip side I have won a few hundred quid tonight, cast iron certainties are too hard to turn down.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:21 pm**

thatdberight wrote:That thought process is a good part of the reason that, for the first time in twenty years, I'm not a ST holder and am unlikely to attend even a handful of matches this season.
Perhaps you can perpetually find people who believe that it's a "cup final" every time we play Watford or Bournemouth. But I'm not sure.

And if we beat Liverpool with a fantastic performance all will be forgiven

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:21 pm**

It’s not like were not trying to win these games. We made 10 changes. We should still have enough to beat a League 1 club with 8 changes.

It is frustrating if course. But then again imagine being a player playing tonight. What it the point in trying? Vydra scores 58 before half time and another 68 in the second half and he’ll still be watching Only Fools on Dave at half 5 on Saturday. Dyche has his team set in stone. There is no room for impressing whatsoever.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:22 pm**

Watford got the the FA cup final, got destroyed 6-0 and look at them now

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:22 pm**

After the 3rd year I kinda accepted we will always give up the League Cup while we are in the Premier League.
What is that, the 4th year in a row we have been knocked out by lower opposition in the League Cup?

Unfortunately one team wanted that more tonight.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:24 pm**

Those players were good enough to win tonight, they just didn’t want it enough.

Went one up and thought the job was done and dropped their effort levels, then could not get going again.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:24 pm**

Milltown1882 wrote:Our supporters’ attitudes to cups and the 17th position in the Premier League are a generational thing. A lot of people would be happy with 17th and first round cup exits till the end of time.

Too many people willing to swallow the rubbish the media/SKY Sports try to ram down our throats. Being in the Prem is the be all and end all etc. Simply surviving every year is no kind of aspiration.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:24 pm**

We did win the one league cup game that mattered a couple of seasons ago

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:25 pm**

The frustrating thing is that a cup like this represents a real chance of silverware for a team like us. We have a squad capable of playing in league and cup games, it's just that we have never looked like setting up to win in a cup tie under Dyche, except maybe against rovers.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:26 pm**

jrgbfc wrote:Too many people willing to swallow the rubbish the media/SKY Sports try to ram down our throats. Being in the Prem is the be all and end all etc. Simply surviving every year is no kind of aspiration.

Not enjoying the way we are playing?

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:26 pm**

Absolutely spot on. Once or twice to a lower league club I can live with, crashing out in the first round we play against teams multiple leagues below us every single year...it’s a disgrace.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:26 pm**

Spijed wrote:We did win the one league cup game that mattered a couple of seasons ago

Yes, that was interesting - we looked very up for it as well.

Does make you wonder if Dyche said "I won't hear the end of it if we roll over in this one boys, I expect a performance".

Would we have played that well that evening if we had been away at Plymouth Argyle, one wonders.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:26 pm**

I love SD but he must have one of the worst cup records of any Manager. Prefer it if we just didnt enter

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:28 pm**

Milltown1882 wrote:Our supporters’ attitudes to cups and the 17th position in the Premier League are a generational thing. A lot of people would be happy with 17th and first round cup exits till the end of time.

I agree, but this is another example of how older generations are generally wiser.

Ask Forest fans if they value their European runs (or even their League Cup triumph) better than their several league survivals. Once it gets 20+ years down the line, that is what is important. We will have nothing to tell the grandkids about when we come to retire if we aren’t careful.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:28 pm**

Spijed wrote:Not enjoying the way we are playing?

I don't particularly enjoy watching the football we play under Dyche no, but if it's getting results it's tolerable.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:29 pm**

Spijed wrote:We did win the one league cup game that mattered a couple of seasons ago

The Derby seldom produces upsets. And I wouldn’t care if today was a rare instance of losing to a lower league club. But this is every year now, every single time. This is before we consider we’ve been done at home by Lincoln in the other cup competition recently.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:29 pm**

MDWat wrote:For as long as we’re in the Premier League, in reality.

If we had 30 points by Christmas, I’m convinced we’d have a do at the FA Cup. Indeed, we would have the season we finished 7th but we ended up getting drawn away at Man City.

The League Cup will never ever be a priority for Dyche, in my opinion.

Disagree. If we had 30 points by Christmas, we’d still be prioritising finishing 7th in the League, so we could field severely weakened teams on the Europa Cup as well.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:30 pm**

At least we don't have to worry about Dyche upping sticks and leaving us - no bigger club would want him with his atrocious cup record and that'll do just fine for me.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:30 pm**

Top Claret wrote:I attended tonight but really can't be arsed with any of the cup competitions. For me the Premier league is the be all and end all.
We have our cup finals every time we play a premier league game

Wow, so staying up every season & winning nothing is all you want every season?

football is about winning trophys, not just surviving every season..

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:33 pm**

When we turn up in the FA Cup and lose 5-0 to City, I shrug my shoulders. It does not matter, they are vastly better than us. But this is about more than just which competition matters more, it’s about not getting embarrassed each and every year.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:33 pm**

Bordeauxclaret wrote:A league one team who made 8 changes as well.

Maybe, but they don’t have old Joey Wankhands in goal.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:34 pm**

claretdj wrote:Wow, so staying up every season & winning nothing is all you want every season? football is about winning trophys, not just surviving every season..

Nail. Head. The bar really is the floor at the moment with regards to trying to *win*.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:35 pm**

BennyD wrote:Maybe, but they don’t have old Joey Wankhands in goal.

Heaton was in goal at Burton Albion last year, wasn’t he? Hart directly responsible for one goal, not for the other two, and not for our second half collapse overall.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:35 pm**

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I agree, but this is another example of how older generations are generally wiser.

Ask Forest fans if they value their European runs (or even their League Cup triumph) better than their several league survivals. Once it gets 20+ years down the line, that is what is important. We will have nothing to tell the grandkids about when we come to retire if we aren’t careful.

I know a lot of Forest fans and they would gladly take that and be where they are now. Going for a cup every now and again isn’t going to result in a Bury/Bolton-esque implosion.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:36 pm**

Didn't go on tonight. If the club can't be bothered then neither can I. Still mentally scarred from the shambolic displays against Lincoln and Accy.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:36 pm**

claretdj wrote:Wow, so staying up every season & winning nothing is all you want every season? football is about winning trophys, not just surviving every season..

It used to be, when there wasn’t £100m plus on the line. Winning the league cup won’t give us financial security, whereas staying in the Prem helps a lot. It is what it is.

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