If he gets a million runs he will still be a convicted cheat. England’s bowling and fielding and captaincy has been a disgracekentonclaret wrote:Steve Smith has become the first batsman (from either country) to score 500 runs in three consecutive Ashes Series.
England v Australia 4th Test
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Found guilty of cheating just like Michael Atherton with a pocketful of topsoil.
Oh well, at least he can always get a well paid job with Sky.
If you believe cricketers were not cheating years ago you are very naive. The only difference is the lack of 6 Sky HD cameras at every ground. Good job they didn't have them when W G Grace played.
Oh well, at least he can always get a well paid job with Sky.
If you believe cricketers were not cheating years ago you are very naive. The only difference is the lack of 6 Sky HD cameras at every ground. Good job they didn't have them when W G Grace played.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Given that he didn’t actually do the cheating but accepted the responsibility as captain, I’d suggest he won’t always be a convicted cheat.FCBurnley wrote:If he gets a million runs he will still be a convicted cheat. England’s bowling and fielding and captaincy has been a disgrace
What he is, is a world class batsman and probably the best in the world right now.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
So are you claiming that he had no prior knowledge of the sand paper plan ?ClaretTony wrote:Given that he didn’t actually do the cheating but accepted the responsibility as captain, I’d suggest he won’t always be a convicted cheat.
What he is, is a world class batsman and probably the best in the world right now.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Not relevant but from what was said Warner was behind it and Bancroft did it. Either way he’s been convicted of nothing, he’s served his suspension and he’s a world class batsman.FCBurnley wrote:So are you claiming that he had no prior knowledge of the sand paper plan ?
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Lyon & Starc have now put on over 50 and the total is fast approaching 500.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Declared on 497/8. England will have to bat for around 45 minutes.
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Of course it is relevant. If he was not involved and had no prior knowledge then he should never have been suspended. No one is disputing his ability as a batsman just his judgement as a former captain of his countryClaretTony wrote:Not relevant but from what was said Warner was behind it and Bancroft did it. Either way he’s been convicted of nothing, he’s served his suspension and he’s a world class batsman.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
What a rubbish day! Putting the garden furniture & BBQ to bed for the year and the Ashes being all but lost!
The mrs has the cheek to ask why I’m in a foul mood!
The mrs has the cheek to ask why I’m in a foul mood!
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
You called him a convicted cheat which is nonsensical.FCBurnley wrote:Of course it is relevant. If he was not involved and had no prior knowledge then he should never have been suspended. No one is disputing his ability as a batsman just his judgement as a former captain of his country
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Players have been cheating at the game of cricket since the game was invented, players deliberately running on the pitch, claiming a catch that was never made. During the 2005 Ashes Series Trescothick admitted in his autobiography that England cheated by using the saliva from sweets to get the ball to swing more prodigiously, and to even experimenting to find the best type of mints to use before deciding on Murray Mints.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
They all knew about it, the head coach all but admitted it at a sportsman’s dinner the other week whilst saying every single team in the world does/did it. Perhaps he didn’t know it was sandpaper but if you’ve ever played cricket you know when a balls been tampered withFCBurnley wrote:Of course it is relevant. If he was not involved and had no prior knowledge then he should never have been suspended. No one is disputing his ability as a batsman just his judgement as a former captain of his country
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
So which word is wrong. Convicted or Cheat ?ClaretTony wrote:You called him a convicted cheat which is nonsensical.
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
So that makes any subsequent cheating ok ?kentonclaret wrote:Players have been cheating at the game of cricket since the game was invented, players deliberately running on the pitch, claiming a catch that was never made. During the 2005 Ashes Series Trescothick admitted in his autobiography that England cheated by using the saliva from sweets to get the ball to swing more prodigiously, and to even experimenting to find the best type of mints to use before deciding on Murray Mints.
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Shocking from England, really poor. Can see a tumble of wickets coming now.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
As long as Ben Stokes is there we have hope!Foulthrow wrote:Shocking from England, really poor. Can see a tumble of wickets coming now.
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
If his shoulder is okSpijed wrote:As long as Ben Stokes is there we have hope!
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
We just need to put on a quick 500-600 in the next session or two and it’s game on.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Or, please let it rain for the vast majority of those sessions.Rileybobs wrote:We just need to put on a quick 500-600 in the next session or two and it’s game on.
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
The performance of Ben Stokes in the previous test match masked many of England's problems which are still there on display.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Not to mention if Steve Smith hadn't been concussed, we'd have almost certainly lost
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Aussies don’t drop catches like we do. Catches win matches
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Denly fails again 10-1 wicket for Cummins is it too early for a rain dance.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Forecast for tomorrow is wet until around lunchtime,and then drier in the afternoon,any rain would be helpful for England.willsclarets wrote:Or, please let it rain for the vast majority of those sessions.
The bottom line is England have to bat well in this 1st innings,the pitch is good so it's just a case of putting a score on the board and batting time,it's hard to see how England can win this test but a draw is possible with application and patience.
This situation is a good test of England's character and mentality,we'll see what their made of over the next few days.
23-1 at the close Burns and Overton together.
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
What is wrong with Archer ? Trouble between him and Root maybe ? Or injured
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
I think they overworked him in the last test, he's new to test cricket and at this level we asked a little too much I think. I don't know why root doesn't fancy him, but woakes should've bowled more before he was dropped.FCBurnley wrote:What is wrong with Archer ? Trouble between him and Root maybe ? Or injured
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Have to think if Smith played at Headingley in two knocks he'd have scored enough runs to have put the game and the Ashes out of our reach.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
His injury has helped them though. They’ve now found another batsman who can score runs with ease against us.jrgbfc wrote:Have to think if Smith played at Headingley in two knocks he'd have scored enough runs to have put the game and the Ashes out of our reach.
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Yes it doesn't say much for the Aussie selectors really. Laubuschagne has looked a far better player than Khawaja, Head and Wade, but if it wasn't for Smith's injury he'd have probably been stuck carrying the drinks all series.ClaretTony wrote:His injury has helped them though. They’ve now found another batsman who can score runs with ease against us.
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
FCBurnley...Steve Smith was banned from cricket for 12 months for his part in the ball tampering episode. He also lost his captaincy. He has already stated that he did the wrong thing and apologised. He has now done his time and has returned. Yes he made a serious mistake but he won’t be the first or the last. Have you ever made a mistake? Anyway, enjoy his batting as it could be a while before you see anything better.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
There’s mistakes like shitting yourself. But shitting on someones head isn’t. There’s a huge difference.Pidgeon wrote:FCBurnley...Steve Smith was banned from cricket for 12 months for his part in the ball tampering episode. He also lost his captaincy. He has already stated that he did the wrong thing and apologised. He has now done his time and has returned. Yes he made a serious mistake but he won’t be the first or the last. Have you ever made a mistake? Anyway, enjoy his batting as it could be a while before you see anything better.
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
I watched an innings in the last test that was vastly superior than anything Steve Smith has ever done and probably ever will do. Smith has skill and boundless patience that is perfect for test cricket. But in my opinion he made a huge error of judgement that embarrassed him and his Country. Just what message did Smiths actions send to the thousands of youngsters who watch and play cricket. In my opinion the punishment did not fit the crime. You clearly have a different view.Pidgeon wrote:FCBurnley...Steve Smith was banned from cricket for 12 months for his part in the ball tampering episode. He also lost his captaincy. He has already stated that he did the wrong thing and apologised. He has now done his time and has returned. Yes he made a serious mistake but he won’t be the first or the last. Have you ever made a mistake? Anyway, enjoy his batting as it could be a while before you see anything better.
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
There will always be examples of great individual innings. Smiths current batting average is second to Bradman and that puts him at the very top of the game. I agree with you by the way in respect of his error of judgement and impact on the game ? However, it sounds like your issue is with the punishment handed out and he cant be blamed for that. Following the incident, he made a public apology, he served the time he was banned for, he has worked tirelessly on mental health issues and visited many schools. Shouldn't people be given a second chance?
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Englands performance in the field yesterday looked dishevelled and lacked discipline. A series of missed catches along with some poor bowling have helped place Australia in a insurmountable. You've got to take your chances against Smith, they don't come along so ofter. May not look orthodox in the crease but he's up there with the very best. Of those I've seen live second only to Viv Richards imo.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
There has always been "gamesmanship" even in cricket and imo the very word gamesmanship is just a polite word for very polite cheating and teams have always been mucking around with the ball in some way or other, even shining it on your trousers is in effect tampering with the ball. BUT what Smith and co were doing took it well beyond that grey area of gamesmanship and over the line into downright and obvious cheating. They got caught, pilloried and done. Time to move on and focus on the cricket. The main issue I personally have with Smith is that he's so bizarre in the way he plays and scores his runs (and if anything he is getting more bizarre by the day!) that young cricketers will try to emulate him and it really won't work. His style is totally unique and can only really work for him. Barely anything he does is in the coaching books!!Pidgeon wrote:FCBurnley...Steve Smith was banned from cricket for 12 months for his part in the ball tampering episode. He also lost his captaincy. He has already stated that he did the wrong thing and apologised. He has now done his time and has returned. Yes he made a serious mistake but he won’t be the first or the last. Have you ever made a mistake? Anyway, enjoy his batting as it could be a while before you see anything better.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
So, after testing out various types of sweets for their effectiveness, taking a packet of Murray Mints onto the field of play to impart a sugary saliva on to the ball to facilitate greater shine and swing isn't "downright and obvious cheating". This is what Trescothick admitted to doing during the 2005 Ashes Series. The fact that he was not caught in the act is irrelevant and purely by chance. In his book he says that at one point the packet of sweets fell out of his pocket and he was sure that he would be discovered.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Finally underway. Overton out quickly and now 43/2.
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Root 66
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
I wouldn't think anyone who plays cricket would cry foul at the fielding side having sweets to help shine the ball.kentonclaret wrote:So, after testing out various types of sweets for their effectiveness, taking a packet of Murray Mints onto the field of play to impart a sugary saliva on to the ball to facilitate greater shine and swing isn't "downright and obvious cheating". This is what Trescothick admitted to doing during the 2005 Ashes Series. The fact that he was not caught in the act is irrelevant and purely by chance. In his book he says that at one point the packet of sweets fell out of his pocket and he was sure that he would be discovered.
Most people responsible for the shine hate any moisture going near it at all. With the belief the heat from friction alters it to their advantage.
The other thing on Steve Smith people are forgetting is the DRS review when he asked the coaching staff on the balcony what to do. That is outright cheating.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Watching England since play resumed, I have to agree with David Gower that we need to show a bit more aggression because, although we are occupying the crease we are not scoring very many and it allows the bowlers to keep on top.
The problem comes when we lose a couple of wickets and we are still hundreds behind, we can be quite fragile in our batting and the Aussies know this ---fingers crossed for survival.
The problem comes when we lose a couple of wickets and we are still hundreds behind, we can be quite fragile in our batting and the Aussies know this ---fingers crossed for survival.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
This has been a good partnership,and gives England a chance of building a strong reply,need one or both of this pair to post a 100+,another excellent 50 from Rory Burns,whatever happens in the rest of this series he'll be on the plane to New Zealand.
Deficit's still nearly 400 though so plenty of work yet to do,England need to still be batting at this time tomorrow,forecast for the weekend is set fair.
Clearly survival is paramount but Ashington raises a valid point runs are important as well,positivity is fine as long as it's not reckless controlled aggression is the key.
Deficit's still nearly 400 though so plenty of work yet to do,England need to still be batting at this time tomorrow,forecast for the weekend is set fair.
Clearly survival is paramount but Ashington raises a valid point runs are important as well,positivity is fine as long as it's not reckless controlled aggression is the key.
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Some of the MCC types must look at Flintoff wearing his Jacamo wardrobe and think 'Bloody disgraceful'
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
They never liked him anyway ---too straight for them. I'll bet that he really caresJohnMac wrote:Some of the MCC types must look at Flintoff wearing his Jacamo wardrobe and think 'Bloody disgraceful'
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
The only problem in Cricket as you will know, the watching public will come down heavy on any dismissal.Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:Watching England since play resumed, I have to agree with David Gower that we need to show a bit more aggression because, although we are occupying the crease we are not scoring very many and it allows the bowlers to keep on top.
The problem comes when we lose a couple of wickets and we are still hundreds behind, we can be quite fragile in our batting and the Aussies know this ---fingers crossed for survival.
Just like on here when Archer attacked Lyon and hit him for a couple of boundaries, then got caught. He got pelters for it, despite taking the attack back to them and the spinner probably being the only one he could attack.
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Totally agree about Smiths bizarre style. Yesterday he even chased a ball behind the stumps and hit it away from the keeper as he was trying to collect it ! Bairstow had a real go at him. Think he might be a ball or two short of an overDark Cloud wrote:There has always been "gamesmanship" even in cricket and imo the very word gamesmanship is just a polite word for very polite cheating and teams have always been mucking around with the ball in some way or other, even shining it on your trousers is in effect tampering with the ball. BUT what Smith and co were doing took it well beyond that grey area of gamesmanship and over the line into downright and obvious cheating. They got caught, pilloried and done. Time to move on and focus on the cricket. The main issue I personally have with Smith is that he's so bizarre in the way he plays and scores his runs (and if anything he is getting more bizarre by the day!) that young cricketers will try to emulate him and it really won't work. His style is totally unique and can only really work for him. Barely anything he does is in the coaching books!!
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
You are right when you say my issue is with the punishment. I believe the length of Smiths ( and others) suspension decided by The AUSTRALIAN cricket board was based not on his crime but on the upcoming fixtures. They were desperate to win The World Cup and The Ashes and so a 12 month ban fit the bill nicely. Long enough to look like they cared what had happened and short enough to give them a chance in the WC and Ashes by conveniently reinstating Smith Warner and Bancroft ahead of The World Cup Ashes Tour.Pidgeon wrote:There will always be examples of great individual innings. Smiths current batting average is second to Bradman and that puts him at the very top of the game. I agree with you by the way in respect of his error of judgement and impact on the game ? However, it sounds like your issue is with the punishment handed out and he cant be blamed for that. Following the incident, he made a public apology, he served the time he was banned for, he has worked tirelessly on mental health issues and visited many schools. Shouldn't people be given a second chance?
In answer to your final question......it depends what they did wrong. What the Australian team did was bad for the game,Australia and the players involved. I would be mortified if an English captain committed the same offence.
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Big let off for Root. He needs to do a Smith now and make em pay
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
I'm pleased to see two of our batsmen managing to put a partnership together which has lasted 44 overs --it is a surprise the way that we have been batting recently.
Re: England v Australia 4th Test
Very impressed with Burns. They have both done well but Burns is doing exactly what you want from your opener
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Re: England v Australia 4th Test
One or two worrying moments but a good partnership. First target is to get to 298 to avoid the follow on. The concern is this brittle batting of ours and losing one wicket could cause big problems for us.Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:I'm pleased to see two of our batsmen managing to put a partnership together which has lasted 44 overs --it is a surprise the way that we have been batting recently.
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