• England v Australia 4th Test

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:18 pm**

Cheats certainly do prosper

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:18 pm**

Wonder if Root will quit now or after the last test.

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:19 pm**

Bayliss should stick to one day cricket!

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:20 pm**

Who said cheats never prosper?

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:20 pm**

Let down too often by batsmen who've forgotten how to play a Test innings. That's if a couple of them ever did know how.
Very, very disappointing, not just to lose but, how we lost.

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:20 pm**

All over can't blame the lower order they tried their best,but it proved beyond them.

It might be a blessing in disguise as the England selectors will have to make some hard calls,the batting unit is far too erratic,and needs stability Roy,Bairstow and Buttler in the line up is not working.

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:21 pm**

Congrats Australia. Deserved to win. Incredibly competitive and edgy match.

Sometimes the fiercest rivalries come between the closest of friends. The Ashes shows it.

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:24 pm**

Sometimes you just have to suck it up and accept that the better side won. They have bowled and fielded better and then there is Steve Smith. We can still salvage a drawn series at The Oval. But quite frankly we dont really deserve it. Time for a rethink and rebuild.

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:25 pm**

tiger76 wrote:All over can't blame the lower order they tried their best,but it proved beyond them.

It might be a blessing in disguise as the England selectors will have to make some hard calls,the batting unit is far too erratic,and needs stability Roy,Bairstow and Buttler in the line up is not working.

Shows the difference between Australia & Us. They are willing to drop the likes of Starc, whereas we persist with under-performing players on a regular basis.

Sentimentality from the world cup has ultimately cost us dear.

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:26 pm**

The sooner Bayliss goes the better now. He's done his job with the one day side but he's taken the Test side backwards.

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:44 pm**

Best team won

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:13 pm**

Thought, overall, we did better today than I expected and there were times when I thought we might just hang on.

But we have not been good enough and so big decisions need to be made.

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:55 pm**

No doubt the likes of Denly and Leach will be made the scapegoats so people like Bairstow can continue to be picked despite contributing very little to the Test side for a while now. Probably recall Mooen Ali as well now he's showing a bit of form.

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:03 pm**

jrgbfc wrote:No doubt the likes of Denly and Leach will be made the scapegoats so people like Bairstow can continue to be picked despite contributing very little to the Test side for a while now. Probably recall Mooen Ali as well now he's showing a bit of form.

Slight exaggeration but not to be unexpected really.

Denly has done ok but needs a century as fifties ok but you can’t build a career on them. As for Leach, spinners need time to learn their trade at test level; Lyon didn’t look up to much when he first played but he was given time.

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:05 pm**

Gutted for Stokes and even more so because he wasn’t fit to play in this game that is clear. Not sure this game has done us much good it has muddied the waters for a few players who should now be gone.

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:31 pm**

Another good test match.
By the way FCBurnley...no need for you to doubt that any Australians would walk....remember Adam Gilchrist? Or perhaps that's before your time?

Posted: **Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:49 pm**

Went today with family members and had a good day. Certainly a different type of cricket day but we took it a lot further than I expected albeit always feeling too far adrift. Australia deserve their success. We’ve had a great record at home against them in recent years but this is a fine Australian attack and their no.4 (and potentially no.3 from the point on) are the big difference. There does seem to be a bit of muddled thinking between the codes and what constitutes a test match batsman but there is plenty to be positive about. Burns, Archer and to a lesser extent Denly, have done pretty well. The captaincy wears heavy on Root, I’d like to see someone else given a go after this series, though from the outside there’s no obvious choice. And the unlucky Curran - man of the series v India last year - certainly deserves a run out at The Oval. We’ve certainly missed Jimmy.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:41 am**

So England got beat at Cricket.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:39 am**

ClaretTony wrote:Not just Aussies - you probably won’t see local league cricketers walk now.

But you're comparing apples with pears there.
No technology/ reviews in local cricket.
If you stand your ground when you know you've hit it then you're at serious risk of being embarrassed when it's reviewed.
Warner has looked like the cheat he is twice in this series when he's not walked and a review has revealed he clearly touched it.
Paine clearly thought Stokes had touched it.
Stokes knew he'd touched it. Paine would have reviewed it even if the bowler wasn't sure.
The 3rd umpire would have given him out on review.
Can't see much point in going for a review when you're certain you've hit it and the technology will confirm it.
Why would you waste a review?
I don't understand your logic here.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:14 am**

Last test will come too quickly for any big changes so a few will get another chance

Burns probably done enough
Denly- doesn’t look good enough, being shifted around won’t have helped.
Root - doesn’t look happy and will quit as captain. Needs to sort his concentration
Roy - looks like a fish out of water.
Stokes - goes without saying
Bairstow - gone backwards. Will be lucky to keep his place for the next series
Buttler - despite all the back slapping for getting to 40 his stats are not good enough at test level
Overton - not impressed with his bowling. Only in due to injuries
Archer - only emerging light
Broad - another good series on English soil
Leach - showed backbone but bowling not up to much.

Six players by my reckoning who’s places are up for grabs.
Talk before the series was of trying to manage Broads workload as well but he was forced to take over. How long he can carry on at his age remains to be seen.

We are not in a very good spot in test match cricket.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:59 am**

nil_desperandum wrote:Can't see much point in going for a review when you're certain you've hit it and the technology will confirm it.
Why would you waste a review?
I don't understand your logic here.

He wouldn't have been going for a review, the Aussies would. So we wouldn't have been using a review, the Aussies would have had to use one of theirs to get the decision. I'm not suggesting he was wrong to walk, far from it, but by doing so he did spare the Aussies a review and we know how vital that can be at the end of the game.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:15 am**

If they review it and are correct they keep their review don’t they?

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:21 am**

Bordeauxclaret wrote:If they review it and are correct they keep their review don’t they?

They would

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:55 am**

Well I suppose it would have saved us a minute or so if he’d have stood his ground.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:03 am**

ClaretTony wrote:He wouldn't have been going for a review, the Aussies would. So we wouldn't have been using a review, the Aussies would have had to use one of theirs to get the decision. I'm not suggesting he was wrong to walk, far from it, but by doing so he did spare the Aussies a review and we know how vital that can be at the end of the game.

I was talking in general terms when I referred to wasting a review.
Warner has done it twice this series as I implied.
And as Bordeaux points out,Stokes hit it so the Aussies would have used but retained theirs.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:10 am**

I suppose the advantage of standing your ground is that you might get saved by a flukey no-ball.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:11 am**

I think no balls are reviewed on all wickets now anyway.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:12 am**

nil_desperandum wrote:I was talking in general terms when I referred to wasting a review.
Warner has done it twice this series as I implied.
And as Bordeaux points out,Stokes hit it so the Aussies would have used but retained theirs.

Suppose there is always the chance that they won't review if you don't walk, however the second they review you may as well start walking then.

Not cheating if you don't walk as it is not up to the batsman to make the decision it is the job of the umpire and then the responsibility of the fielding team to review if they feel the umpire is wrong.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:39 am**

Bordeauxclaret wrote:I think no balls are reviewed on all wickets now anyway.

Ah, didn’t know that. Cheers.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:29 am**

Goobs wrote: Not cheating if you don't walk as it is not up to the batsman to make the decision it is the job of the umpire and then the responsibility of the fielding team to review if they feel the umpire is wrong.

I guess that rather depends on context.
Sometimes it's so obvious that you've hit it that to stand your ground is embarrassing when there's DRS
In Stokes case, however, I think he might justifiably have claimed that he didn't think he'd touched it.
There's no doubt in my mind that Paine would have reviewed it if given not out, but Stokes cleared everything up by immediate walking off.
Good on him , I say, though I know some will disagree

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:39 am**

All reminds me of the Broad one when he was so blatantly caught against the Aussies and was incredibly not given out. He stood his ground and the Aussies had no reviews left. A few years ago now but was the clearest of catches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHhZb-cBKwc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:50 am**

yet the person most upset about that, had done this a few years prior.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhtdQHrAPaE

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:23 pm**

Unchanged squad named for 5th test, what do you need to get dropped from this exclusive team?

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:37 pm**

CleggHall wrote:Unchanged squad named for 5th test, what do you need to get dropped from this exclusive team?

Ask KP...

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:50 pm**

i have definitely given Roy a rest. The others at risk probably did enough to hang on

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:35 pm**

Same squad, but we are a bowler short with Stoke’s shoulder problem. So he will occupy Roy’s batting place and Woakes or Curran (on his home ground) will come in.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:11 pm**

Bit late now for making wholesale changes but there needs to be an overhaul after this final test and I'd start with some of the selectors who are clearly getting it horribly wrong.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:14 pm**

Papabendi wrote:I'd have definitely given Roy a rest. The others at risk probably did enough to hang on

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:15 pm**

I predict Roy and Bairstow will get a century and we will win the match.....Just to paper over the cracks, all too late.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:48 pm**

between them across the two innings?

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:10 pm**

ClaretTony wrote:Bit late now for making wholesale changes but there needs to be an overhaul after this final test and I'd start with some of the selectors who are clearly getting it horribly wrong.

Yes but Ed Smith is the most intelligent bloke on the planet. Must count for something?

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:25 pm**

The problem is that Bayliss is leaving and as we can't win the Ashes he probably isn't that bothered.

As we have won the one day world cup he can rightly point to the success he's had with that, so I suspect there is little motivation for him to start thinking about other players for the test team.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:52 pm**

We've been second best no doubt, but what cost us in that game was missed chances in their first innings. Smith dropped on 65 and leach bowling an inexcusable no ball on 111 I think it was. We also missed an easy catch with Paine on 9. They ended up on 497 when a more clinical field would've had them out for more like 350. The Aussies have a good bowling attack but minus Smith they are pants with the bat, arguably worse than us minus our best player.

Fed up of this idea they've "won" too. Yes they've retained the ashes but let's at least pump them at the oval for a draw. A draw series is a drawn series.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:53 pm**

Spijed wrote:The problem is that Bayliss is leaving and as we can't win the Ashes he probably isn't that bothered.

As we have won the one day world cup he can rightly point to the success he's had with that, so I suspect there is little motivation for him to start thinking about other players for the test team.

He is only one member of the selection team

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:01 pm**

What is James Taylor's role exactly? Apart from watching the cricket in a nice suit and sunglasses. Smacks of jobs for the boys to me.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:30 pm**

jrgbfc wrote:What is James Taylor's role exactly? Apart from watching the cricket in a nice suit and sunglasses. Smacks of jobs for the boys to me.

I think it’s the selectors uniform

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:45 pm**

I’ve just done some searching and it appears we now have a panel of just three selectors - Ed Smith, James Taylor and the head coach.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:46 pm**

ClaretTony wrote:I’ve just done some searching and it appears we now have a panel of just three selectors - Ed Smith, James Taylor and the head coach.

I thought the captain gets a say as well.

Posted: **Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:52 pm**

Spijed wrote:I thought the captain gets a say as well.

I’ve read something from last year when they made changes. Prior to that the captain sat in on selection meetings without having a casting vote.

Now it’s discipline specific scouts who report in to the three man selection panel.

England v Australia 4th Test

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