Javi Gracia sacked

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:39 pm

First Premier League sacking of the season

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:40 pm

Reappointing Sanchez Flores according to reports.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:42 pm

They’ve confirmed an appointment is imminent but hadn’t seen any speculation. Flores was unfortunate to lose his job in the first place.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:44 pm

Strange decision. Good manager whos done a good job but had a slow start. Thats watford though. Thankfuly they did the same to dyche.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:47 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Strange decision. Good manager whos done a good job but had a slow start. Thats watford though. Thankfuly they did the same to dyche.

There was some speculation a couple of weeks ago but Watford dismissed it. But you know what they say about smoke and fire?

When Everton tried to get Marco Silva they said they wouldn’t change manager mid-season. They’ve now done it twice in under two years.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:50 pm

Not surprised going off Watford’s recent history. Think he’s one of the better managers in the group outside top 6. Not sure what to make of timing... bad run, leaving plenty of time to look at the squad for the incoming, but someone else’s squad until the next window.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:52 pm

Doesn’t seem to bother Watford how often they change manager. He’s the 10th to lose his job since the Pozzo family bought the club in summer 2012.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:56 pm

7 managers in 5 years?

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:56 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Doesn’t seem to bother Watford how often they change manager. He’s the 10th to lose his job since the Pozzo family bought the club in summer 2012.

The only one to extend his contract since they took over.
He was the 16th manager since May 2001.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:57 pm

boatshed bill wrote:7 managers in 5 years?

Or 11 in 7 years with number 12 due

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:59 pm

Watford have targets.
At the close of each segment of the season the manager is assessed.
If they are falling well clear of the agreed target they are dismissed.

EarbyClaret · Post by **EarbyClaret** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:59 pm

elwaclaret wrote:Not surprised going off Watford’s recent history. Think he’s one of the better managers in the group outside top 6. Not sure what to make of timing... bad run, leaving plenty of time to look at the squad for the incoming, but someone else’s squad until the next window.

Indeed somebody else's squad but not a bad one to inherit - and there's probably a few still there from his previous spell in charge. Agree that his sacking seemed harsh at the time.

If you look at the way they operate Watford are the polar opposite of our model - yet their achievements are pretty much on a level with ours - certainly better as far as cup competitions are concerned.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:00 pm

The managers they’ve sacked haven’t been bad managers either. It seems they just prefer to have a reshuffle as soon as it goes a bit stale.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:01 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Or 11 in 7 years with number 12 due

Madness.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:02 pm

A model which has worked for them, Gracia was on a horrible run. Chelsea employ a similar model and look at their success with it. The new manager bounce effect

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:02 pm

EarbyClaret wrote:If you look at the way they operate Watford are the polar opposite of our model - yet their achievements are pretty much on a level with ours - certainly better as far as cup competitions are concerned.

On a level with ours is good for us when you consider the financial backing they have.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:11 pm

Flores to return is the hot tip

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:11 pm

Ridiculous decision. Although to be fair they finished last season horribly, even without that cup final drubbing.
My new relegation favourites.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:14 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Flores to return is the hot tip

He's already been appointed.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:14 pm

Least we don't get any 'Dyche to Watford' threads.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:14 pm

Here is a sad indictment - Graham Taylor managed Watford for more games than Brendan Rodgers, Malky Mackay, Sean Dyche, Gianfranco Zola, Giuseppe Sannino, Oscar Garcia, Billy McKinlay, Slavisa Jokanovic, Quique Sanchez Flores, Walter Mazzarri, Marco Silva and Javi Gracia. Combined.

Does he not like that

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:15 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Flores to return is the hot tip

Yep, Flores who wasn't good enough last time!

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:15 pm

Sobering stat that, Chester.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:17 pm

Flores now confirmed

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:24 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Flores now confirmed

Just 30 minutes after announcing the sacking of Gracia from all accounts. Modern football.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:25 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Reappointing Sanchez Flores according to reports.

Ahem......

Aclaret · Post by **Aclaret** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:26 pm

What the hell must be the Watford fans be thinking ?

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:26 pm

What a disgusting football club

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:28 pm

I bet he didn't say gracias when they told him he was fired.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:32 pm

2 hours away from a Flores been sacked thread.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:34 pm

As long as the managers know what they’re signing up for, which you’d imagine they do by now, then I don’t see the problem.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:34 pm

Aclaret wrote:What the hell must be the Watford fans be thinking ?

It works for them. They’ve become established in the Premier League and they have plenty of money behind them and some very good players.

Having said that, I much prefer a more stable way of doing things.

Aclaret · Post by **Aclaret** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:37 pm

ClaretTony wrote:It works for them. They’ve become established in the Premier League and they have plenty of money behind them and some very good players.

Having said that, I much prefer a more stable way of doing things.

Me too.

EarbyClaret · Post by **EarbyClaret** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:41 pm

ClaretTony wrote: On a level with ours is good for us when you consider the financial backing they have.

Absolutely - and highlights what a fantastic manager SD is and what a well-run club we are.

Financial backing alone is no guarantee of survival at this level though - plenty have crashed and burned in the time that Burnley and Watford have been establishing themselves in the PL - Fulham are the obvious example but both Stoke and Middlesbrough blew similar opportunities.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:51 pm

jesus wept, I really hope they go down

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:35 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:jesus wept, I really hope they go down

Poor start but I’m not expecting them to stay down there

claret54 · Post by **claret54** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:45 pm

It works for them. They have regularly been one of the first of the 'rest' to get to 40 pts. Never in relegation positions for several years. Let's see if it works again this season.

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:03 pm

Gracia's should be thankful!

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:33 pm

ClaretTony wrote:It works for them. They’ve become established in the Premier League and they have plenty of money behind them and some very good players.

Having said that, I much prefer a more stable way of doing things.

Comparing us and Watford is like comparing Apples and Lemons

No way could and should a club like Burnley approach managers like Watford and expect anything but disaster

However we are pretty much 100% dependant on Dyche and when he finally goes we will almost certainly drop out of the Prem League and drift quickly towards the bottom half of the Championship and close to League 1

As Watford have the money needed their approach makes sense. They bring people in, give them money but have very specific short term targets. This way they dont let a club go rotten by keeping a regime in too long and either they suceed or they change quickly and put a new man in to succeed.

The big advantage of Watfords model (as long as the backing remains) they never become too over reliant on one man or a single team and instead become a really fluid agile model that seems to be working very well

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:01 pm

Didnt work very well.in the cup.final though. Just thought I'd throw that in. In fact that defeat may well account for their poor start this season. Interesting to see how it goes with the new chap.

COBBLE · Post by **COBBLE** » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:05 am

"However we are pretty much 100% dependant on Dyche and when he finally goes we will almost certainly drop out of the Prem League and drift quickly towards the bottom half of the Championship and close to League 1"

How do you know? How do you know that there is not a more capable manager to step into SD's shoes? I think there is and will be.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:58 am

I don't think it's a terrible thing they had a replacement lined up, nor do I think it an indictment on the state of modern football, because that model has worked tremendously well for Watford. There's no time to mourn that loss, if it can be called that. That kind or romance wasn't useful even back when football was romantic. They've been poor for going on a calendar year: of course they had a replacement lined up.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:28 am

COBBLE wrote:"However we are pretty much 100% dependant on Dyche and when he finally goes we will almost certainly drop out of the Prem League and drift quickly towards the bottom half of the Championship and close to League 1"

How do you know? How do you know that there is not a more capable manager to step into SD's shoes? I think there is and will be.

DA keeps up his success rate with his ‘dynamite in the water’ baiting method.

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:56 am

They change coaches not managers. We have a manager.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:20 am

There’s pros and cons I suppose, Watford can change manager but the culture behind the club remains the same with a designed method.

Unlike when Fergie and Moyes departed, the clubs hired decent replacements but they couldn’t keep it working.

Burnley wouldn’t be where they are now without the consistency of the board and management, but I fear as soon as that changes, we’ll probably have 4 managers in 6 seasons or something with no improvement.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:02 am

Tbh I’ve never even heard of him, Watford’s merrygoround of managers all seem to look and sound the same. Not short on cash but I’d imagine most on here would have a 50/50 chance of getting a tune out of their overpaid bunch of mercenaries

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:40 am

Watford's method is, in many ways, more sensible than ours.

The manager (or coach rather) is just a small part of the club rather than the person making all of the decisions. They have a more corporate structure in place that allows the club to continue regardless of the personnel. It's not to everyone's tastes but I imagine it will become a more and more popular style of management.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:47 am

aggi wrote:Watford's method is, in many ways, more sensible than ours.

The manager (or coach rather) is just a small part of the club rather than the person making all of the decisions. They have a more corporate structure in place that allows the club to continue regardless of the personnel. It's not to everyone's tastes but I imagine it will become a more and more popular style of management.

apart from all those coaches contracts they have to pay up on - sign on a 2-3 year deal get sacked within 1 and paid up for the rest - not usually just the front man either usually a few come with them not necessarily a full complement but nearly always a few

I fully acknowledge the risk of our approach - with everyone on the thread missing the most obvious comparison of Curbishley and Charlton.

I have said a few times that Dyche is more than a manager he is closer in many ways to a sporting Director - not unlike Ferguson and Clough were - stay away from the players most of the week - trust coaches to do their job, freshen that up where necessary and take charge on match days all why keeping a sharp eye on proceedings - It is what makes us perhaps the most traditionally British of clubs in the top flight

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:16 am

Chester Perry wrote:apart from all those coaches contracts they have to pay up on - sign on a 2-3 year deal get sacked within 1 and paid up for the rest - not usually just the front man either usually a few come with them not necessarily a full complement but nearly always a few

I fully acknowledge the risk of our approach - with everyone on the thread missing the most obvious comparison of Curbishley and Charlton.

I have said a few times that Dyche is more than a manager he is closer in many ways to a sporting Director - not unlike Ferguson and Clough were - stay away from the players most of the week - trust coaches to do their job, freshen that up where necessary and take charge on match days all why keeping a sharp eye on proceedings - It is what makes us perhaps the most traditionally British of clubs in the top flight

I'd be very surprised if the Watford contracts didn't have far more in the way of performance targets, etc to allow them to be sacked relatively cheaply. Given their turnover I'm sure they won't be signing up managers on long-term contracts with no get-out clause.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:21 pm

Florez has had a great start to his 2nd spell as manager at Watford