Thomas Cook to collapse imminently?

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:09 am

Sickener for the staff.. and anyone due to be on their hols this week. I can't remember the last time I used a travel agent though, must be well over 10 years ago. Finding your own flights, destinations and accommodation is quite good fun, we've done it like that for years.

theroyaldyche · Post by **theroyaldyche** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:18 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:My brothers going with them on wednesday.

Great shame. Had some excellent holidays with Thomas Cook. Always used them if we go further afield. And had excellent service every single time. Especially from the one in burnley next to Natwest.

Be a real shame for a lot of people. Holiday makers and staff.

To be fair. With the advent if skyscanner. Booking.com airbnb etc im not that surprised.

Hes not now

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:18 am

I think there is still scope for a holiday package business model maybe just not a high st travel agent one.

Me and my mates go on a lads holiday every year and always book it as a Jet2 package holiday. Always get a decent deal, have plenty of choice of destinations from LBA (we all live in Leeds) and just takes all the hassle and messing around out of it.

Im sure we could save a few pounds doing it differently but just booked a week in Malia for next summer for less than £350 which isn't bad.

basil6345789 · Post by **basil6345789** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:26 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:I think there is still scope for a holiday package business model maybe just not a high st travel agent one.

Me and my mates go on a lads holiday every year and always book it as a Jet2 package holiday. Always get a decent deal, have plenty of choice of destinations from LBA (we all live in Leeds) and just takes all the hassle and messing around out of it.

Im sure we could save a few pounds doing it differently but just booked a week in Malia for next summer for less than £350 which isn't bad.

Jet2, a proper English company - Thomas Cook was under the control of The Germans who, of course, bombed our chippy.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:35 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:I think there is still scope for a holiday package business model maybe just not a high st travel agent one.

Me and my mates go on a lads holiday every year and always book it as a Jet2 package holiday. Always get a decent deal, have plenty of choice of destinations from LBA (we all live in Leeds) and just takes all the hassle and messing around out of it.

Im sure we could save a few pounds doing it differently but just booked a week in Malia for next summer for less than £350 which isn't bad.

My partner works for one that is still successful, but it’s now a niche market.

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:38 am

thatdberight wrote:Just getting bookings isn't a business model. You have to make a profit?

If your second point is a suggestion that the government should have thrown money into a Thomas Cook shaped hole instead of spending it on a government function - bringing back people stranded abroad - I don't know why they'd do that. Thomas Cook was not a national asset; just a travel agent.

Whilst you're correct, Thomas Cook was actually owned by the Government from 1948 until 1972 ....

The major problem was the Company's inability to service the debt it incurred in the merger between Thomas Cook and Going Places in 2007. Thomas Cook effectively paid a fortune to take over a Company that hadn't made a profit in 5 years, and saddled itself with £1.1bn's worth of debt. That, in conjunction with the increasing use of the internet to book holidays, sealed it's fate. At one point, Thomas Cook had 3 stores in Burnley, all within 100 yards of each other ( St James St, Chancery Walk & opposite the ramp at the back of Marks & Spencer ) ... madness !

Certainly, no case for the Government to pump in £200m, only to see the same thing happen again in 4-6 months time ....

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:38 am

Amazing they’ve lasted as long as they did , they’re debt was a steaming pile and a bizzare persistence to think that their name alone would sway people from the multitude of online operators . Their merger with air tours was one of the worst in corporate history and the debt they took on was eye watering in a low margin business .

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:39 am

Has the full business gone under or has the likes of Thomas Cook sport been kept as a separate business?

They will have a lot of bookings for football fans, especially the European game tours.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:40 am

basil6345789 wrote:Jet2, a proper English company - Thomas Cook was under the control of The Germans who, of course, bombed our chippy.

Too right, we celebrated booking the holiday with a lovely fish supper and a sing song of Rule Britannia!!

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:51 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Has the full business gone under or has the likes of Thomas Cook sport been kept as a separate business?

They will have a lot of bookings for football fans, especially the European game tours.

Gone. Liverpool have put out a statement about it.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:00 am

Alanstevensonsgloves wrote:Sympathies for the potential thousands losing their jobs. Interesting to see the next moves from TUI and jet2

Will imagine something akin to vultures and a carcass. such is the way of things

Interesting to see a decent jump in Jet2's share price today as they now could well be seen as the leading UK package holiday vendor

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-sear ... nary-1.25p

Pimlico_Claret · Post by **Pimlico_Claret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:11 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:I think there is still scope for a holiday package business model maybe just not a high st travel agent one.

Me and my mates go on a lads holiday every year and always book it as a Jet2 package holiday. Always get a decent deal, have plenty of choice of destinations from LBA (we all live in Leeds) and just takes all the hassle and messing around out of it.

Im sure we could save a few pounds doing it differently but just booked a week in Malia for next summer for less than £350 which isn't bad.

Thanks for the warning, Malia now off my list for next summer

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:20 am

Regarding Jet2 comments already online from a customer who says that the cost of a flight he planned booking online has been increased by £400.

Jet2 spokesperson replies that the cost of flights will increase according to demand.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:49 am

I was searching for a holiday over a few days last week and considered Thomas Cook.

Thankfully we were attracted by a better on line deal with Jet2 and booked that.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:59 am

I thought people weren't supposed to fly because of the Climate Emergency?

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:06 am

Hipper wrote:I thought people weren't supposed to fly because of the Climate Emergency?

I liked to see those children who protested faces when mummy and daddy tell them there’s no summer holiday next year

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:08 am

Hipper wrote:I thought people weren't supposed to fly because of the Climate Emergency?

I’m loving the twitter hatred for anybody who has booked and was asking what was happening and all the replies were people saying “people are out of work and you just want to know about your holiday”

We’re booked to go away for a week with them next month so searching up somewhere else to go and waiting for the ATOL refund to come in a couple of months time. I feel for some friends who saved up for a couple of years and turned up at Manchester airport last night with kids to be told flight had been cancelled ... as adults we can understand what’s happening but explaining to young ens the holiday they were buzzing for is suddenly not happening will no doubt be stressful.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:17 am

kentonclaret wrote:Amazing how a failed business model manages to get 150,000.00 people to book a holiday with them?

I am sure that the cost of hiring planes and repatriating all of these people currently on a Thomas Cook holiday will not leave much change out of £200m.

Hi Kenton, I'm loving the 150,000.00 - I've never met a "decimal point of a person before.

See my post #26 above. Somewhere less than £100 million was my estimate last night - unless TC has started flying to some very exotic and out of this world places.

Grant Shapps was on the radio this morning. Monarch cost around £50 million. TC is bigger - his estimate somewhere between Monarch and (less than) £100 million.

Among his other comments was that if the gov't put £200 million now there was no certainty that TC's problems would only be pushed back until later - and the repatriation expenditure would be needed then.

PS: The union guy who is quoting £600 million.... that works out at £4,000 per passenger. A dozen or so at that price and you've got small private jets flying everywhere to give everyone a "royal flight" home.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:23 am

Seems the bosses expected it and got their 20m bonuses out first.

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:29 am

Anyone who have used Thomas Cook as a broker for a P&O holiday will have their holiday honoured whether paid in full or part paid, a statement released by P&O has said.

Great customer service imo

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:42 am

THEWELLERNUT70 wrote:Anyone who have used Thomas Cook as a broker for a P&O holiday will have their holiday honoured whether paid in full or part paid, a statement released by P&O has said.

Great customer service imo

Great PR from P&O there, and happily its also the right thing to do

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:51 am

My daughter and husband flew to Vegas with TC 2 days ago. They are booked and paid for a 2 week holiday. We are flying to Vegas tomorrow to meet up with then for a couple of days. They don’t seem too worried and are covered with ATOL. Viva Las Vegas eh. Motto is don’t pay in full ahead of time for anything.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:08 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote: If you think this is nothing to do with Brexit, you are wrong as its abundantly clear that its finished them off.

y

Hi Lancs, can you explain why you think "Brexit finished them off"?

Flights/holidays to Tunisia, Turkey, Thailand, Mexico California, Arizona (vegas) and Florida. Ok, yes, some to EU destinations, also.

Brexit was, until it was delayed, 29-March. Holiday businesses plan a year ahead.

Then, we've got German and Scaninavian parts of business; NON-US 500,000 customers v 150,000 UK customers.

So, how exactly did Brexit "realities" finish them off?

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:15 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Lancs, can you explain why you think "Brexit finished them off"?

Flights/holidays to Tunisia, Turkey, Thailand, Mexico California, Arizona (vegas) and Florida. Ok, yes, some to EU destinations, also.

Brexit was, until it was delayed, 29-March. Holiday businesses plan a year ahead.

Then, we've got German and Scaninavian parts of business; NON-US 500,000 customers v 150,000 UK customers.

So, how exactly did Brexit "realities" finish them off?

For a start the weak pound has made going abroad more expensive. If, as many might say you can, that is seen as linked to Brexit uncertainty, then that is just one clear reason.

Vintage Claret · Post by **Vintage Claret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:24 pm

NottsClaret wrote:Sickener for the staff.. and anyone due to be on their hols this week. I can't remember the last time I used a travel agent though, must be well over 10 years ago. Finding your own flights, destinations and accommodation is quite good fun, we've done it like that for years.

We've done the same for many years and we always pay on credit card for a bit of protection.

Earlier this year we were looking at booking a DIY holiday to Tunisia for October half term that utilized a TC flight coming home (the only Manchester choice) but there had been a lot of media speculation even back then that they were in deep trouble so we opted for Rhodes with Easyjet flights out of Liverpool instead.

Feel sorry for everyone affected by this, the holidaymakers, TC and airline staff etc.

Not sure if it's true or not but I heard TC were still selling holidays over this past weekend which seems a bit naughty, even if the frontline staff weren't sure, the senior management must have known what was coming and that they wouldn't be able to honour new bookings let alone those bought and paid for months ago still to come.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:27 pm

Not sure if it's true or not but I heard TC were still selling holidays over this past weekend which seems a bit naughty, even if the frontline staff weren't sure, the senior management must have known what was coming and that they wouldn't be able to honour new bookings let alone those bought and paid for months ago still to come.

The one benefit of this would be, if anyone was savvy enough and had Thomas Cook vouchers and used then pre-collapse to buy a package holiday, they would then be covered. Anyone left with unspent vouchers is left holding something worth less than toilet paper, sadly

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:30 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:For a start the weak pound has made going abroad more expensive. If, as many might say you can, that is seen as linked to Brexit uncertainty, then that is just one clear reason.

Great news for British sea side resorts.

The British holiday trade is already booming but will only grow and grow.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:38 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Great news for British sea side resorts.

The British holiday trade is already booming but will only grow and grow.

Also makes it cheaper for me to visit. You lucky f**ks

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:39 pm

Vintage Claret wrote:We've done the same for many years and we always pay on credit card for a bit of protection.

Earlier this year we were looking at booking a DIY holiday to Tunisia for October half term that utilized a TC flight coming home (the only Manchester choice) but there had been a lot of media speculation even back then that they were in deep trouble so we opted for Rhodes with Easyjet flights out of Liverpool instead.

Feel sorry for everyone affected by this, the holidaymakers, TC and airline staff etc.

Not sure if it's true or not but I heard TC were still selling holidays over this past weekend which seems a bit naughty, even if the frontline staff weren't sure, the senior management must have known what was coming and that they wouldn't be able to honour new bookings let alone those bought and paid for months ago still to come.

This gets trotted out every time any company collapses. Directors of a company are under very clear responsibilities (although by definition this must involve some judgement) as to when to cease trading. If they've breached those, there should be action against them. But there's got to be a "last minute" before a company goes under and if that had been Friday, then some people who bought on Wednesday and Thursday would have been saying the same thing...

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:43 pm

Imagine if socialism wasn't a thing. I wonder what all those people would have to do to get back home.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:53 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Lancs, can you explain why you think "Brexit finished them off"?

Flights/holidays to Tunisia, Turkey, Thailand, Mexico California, Arizona (vegas) and Florida. Ok, yes, some to EU destinations, also.

Brexit was, until it was delayed, 29-March. Holiday businesses plan a year ahead.

Then, we've got German and Scaninavian parts of business; NON-US 500,000 customers v 150,000 UK customers.

So, how exactly did Brexit "realities" finish them off?

Because less people are travelling because of Brexit uncertainty.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:53 pm

Modern buying habits, knowledge and technology available. Sad it’s gone but sign of times. S*d all to do with Brexit.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:56 pm

Blackrod wrote:Modern buying habits, knowledge and technology available. Sad it’s gone but sign of times. S*d all to do with Brexit.

As I said on a previous post, you can't blame it all on Brexit but its a significant factor.

You want to pretend it isn't, then knock yourself out.

Just add it to the huge list of things that are 100% nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit in yours and other posters eyes.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:01 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Imagine if socialism wasn't a thing. I wonder what all those people would have to do to get back home.

Imagine if socialism had such a vague meaning that you could trot it out to point to anything you think is good as an example of it, hoping that everything you lump under the same vague category gets a thumbs-up on the grounds that something positive was previously put under the same catch-all.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:06 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:As I said on a previous post, you can't blame it all on Brexit but its a significant factor.

You want to pretend it isn't, then knock yourself out.

Just add it to the huge list of things that are 100% nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit in yours and other posters eyes.

Neither "sod all" nor, as far as some seemingly knowledgeable commentators seem to be saying this morning, a "significant" factor. Depends what you mean by significant. The straw that breaks the camel's back, I suppose, is very significant.

Who knows. Definitely a "headwind" for their business. But business bosses, just like political ones, will say anything. If you're running a failing business that's got internal problems, I'm sure the temptation is to emphasise those things outside your control. And if Brexit delivers a benefit, I'm sure that gets conveniently underplayed.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:06 pm

thatdberight wrote:Imagine if socialism had such a vague meaning that you could trot it out to point to anything you think is good as an example of it, hoping that everything you lump under the same vague category gets a thumbs-up on the grounds that something positive was previously put under the same catch-all.

That's the joke.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:19 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Because less people are travelling because of Brexit uncertainty.

You have figures to back this up I take it?

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:20 pm

What was so wrong with TCs business model that it went belly up. As far as I can see TUI run the same model. Are they at risk?

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:25 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:As I said on a previous post, you can't blame it all on Brexit but its a significant factor.

You want to pretend it isn't, then knock yourself out.

Just add it to the huge list of things that are 100% nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit in yours and other posters eyes.

Then, by definition, the blood of Thomas Cook is on the hands of the remainers who have done all they can to scaremonger and delay/stop Brexit for the last 3 years.

Had we come out in a timely and orderly fashion then maybe Thomas Cook could have been saved?

That said, maybe it would have just gone the way of other big businesses that have failed, including some very notable travel related businesses, before Brexit was even a thing.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:28 pm

Inchy wrote:What was so wrong with TCs business model that it went belly up. As far as I can see TUI run the same model. Are they at risk?

TC had large debts to service.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... r-operator" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:30 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:You have figures to back this up I take it?

Crikey, the Brexit bunch are really energised today.

What are you hearing the in the road haulage industry about us dealing with a "No Deal" Herts?

You said on here last year that there was no chance of us coping with it, heard anything positive to the contrary? (I haven't)

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:33 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:You have figures to back this up I take it?

Since when have you cared about facts and figures?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:34 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:Then, by definition, the blood of Thomas Cook is on the hands of the remainers who have done all they can to scaremonger and delay/stop Brexit for the last 3 years.

Had we come out in a timely and orderly fashion then maybe Thomas Cook could have been saved?

That said, maybe it would have just gone the way of other big businesses that have failed, including some very notable travel related businesses, before Brexit was even a thing.

I say this with increasing levels of frustration

- silly to just blame Brexit

- also silly not to blame Brexit for hastening it

You post is also factually incorrect.

The reason we are still in the EU is because some Brexiteers want a different Brexit to others, and made sure the WA hasn't got through parliament.

If you are going to blame remainers, then make sure you blame brexiteers as well.

Oh, and "the blood of thomas Cook is on the hands of the remainers"

Thats Ringo language and completely unnecessary from a normally serious poster.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:34 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Since when have you cared about facts and figures?

He's got a point herts

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:35 pm

When you think about it. Companies like TC who take full payments months in advance are simply operating a legal form of a Ponzi scheme

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:43 pm

Anyway, to cheer you Brexiteers up (blue passports not having arrived yet)

Heres Pachelbels Canon in D

performed on a rubber chicken

https://twitter.com/DitzMcGeee/status/1 ... 2137254913" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:43 pm

FCBurnley wrote:When you think about it. Companies like TC who take full payments months in advance are simply operating a legal form of a Ponzi scheme

That's right.

Except that it's not.

Marney&Mee · Post by **Marney&Mee** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:44 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:You have figures to back this up I take it?

simple really Herts Claret. As the pound has collapsed v euro, we decided to go to Cornwall this summer rather than fly abroad. We could afford Europe (but not twixes or £2k watches), but it didn't make financial sense. I'd imagine I'm not the only one. Brexit hammered the final nail in TC's coffin

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:45 pm

FCBurnley wrote:When you think about it. Companies like TC who take full payments months in advance are simply operating a legal form of a Ponzi scheme

I really hope you didn't think about it if this is the nonsense you have concluded

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:47 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:You have figures to back this up I take it?

Everything that we know says there has been an impact. Given that there hasn't been a fall off in the economy that means the money is either being saved or going on other things so perhaps it's just spending replaced by something else but there's no point trying to be the opposite of the "blame everything on Brexit" viewpoint by taking a "Brexit hasn't affected anything" contrary position.