UK Steel industry

[atlantalad]

Briefly watched an overview on BBCs' Inside Out programme covering the plight of Yorkshire -Humber region steel industry. Workers at company owned by Tata are pinning all hopes on a Turkish pension fund to come in and help the company survive otherwise thousands of jobs will be lost.

Some interesting facts - back in the 1980's there were +150,000 working in the UK industry, now only about 40,000. The average pay for a worker is £36000 which the reporter state is 28% above the national average wage. UK Steel industry is in trouble because it can be sourced cheaper elsewhere ( China) -OK quality may not be same but that is probably only important in high spec products). So it's production is uneconomical in the UK and cannot compete on the world stage.

Reporter spoke to a union leader at one plant and he was saying the previous owners had not invested in the plants. Hmmm? Did he honestly think someone should pour money into a non-profitable company where its work force were earning 28% more than the national average? Talk about being blind to the root cause. Wonder if the unions ever considered the long term effects of maximising wage demands during past negotiations.

The phrase - you reap what you sow - comes to mind.

[theroyaldyche]

Burnley kick off in 15 leave it out

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Outdated manufacturing methods isn't/wasn't unique to British Steel.

The old Rover plant at Longbridge was apparently ridiculously out of date when it finally shut its doors and that was a unionised plant.
It isn't all the fault of the unions, don't get me wrong, but they certainly play a part when a company doesn't upgrade, because yes there are job losses when a plants line can be automated, but in the long term a plant can shut if it isn't cost effective and production isn't quick enough.

In regards to pay, they're there to get the best for their members regardless and I'd guess there isn't much thinking of the future of the business if it isn't modernized.

American Factory is worth a watch on Netflix, it's about a Chinese glass company opening a plant in Detroit and shows the differences between a company without a union and how they treat their employees to how former union workers behave at a new job with no union.

[atlantalad]

I have worked in the US - hence username - in a smallish, non union, manufacturing enterprise that was part of a multi-national. There was no need for a union because everyone there felt a mutual benefit working for the company. There was reasonable pay, health care benefits and a discounted share purchase scheme. Employees recognised the harder everyone worked the more beneficial it would be i.e. having shares in the company. Communication was very open and sincere. There was never a feeling of them and us towards management and management would take time periodically to update empolyees of progress in deals, sales, production strategy, etc. Also employees were able, without incrimination, to make proposals on how to improve their working performance, conditions, etc. during such meetings.

[basil6345789]

Been going down the slow death road since the formation of the ECSC (courtesy of Germans) way back in '52. Early pre-EU tactics including putting us out of business. See the film - it's all there!

[Vino blanco]

I saw an interesting fact on TV the other day. The U.K. Has been producing steel for over 150 years, throughout the industrial revolution, two world wars, times of ecomonic growth and decline. Apparently China has produced more steel in the last two years than the UK has in its entire history. How do you compete with that?

[Pstotto]

The average what? The work may involve a £36000 yearly effort. In a post-capitalist 'post-global 'ebaneezer good in your own country' sort-it world, you have a steel industry for the steel you need and build a world around need and not profit, yet economically run for maximum efficiency minimum effort.

[Burnley Ace]

We don’t make the same type of steel as China!

[Paul Waine]

Briefly watched an overview on BBCs' Inside Out programme covering the plight of Yorkshire -Humber region steel industry. Workers at company owned by Tata are pinning all hopes on a Turkish pension fund to come in and help the company survive otherwise thousands of jobs will be lost.

Some interesting facts - back in the 1980's there were +150,000 working in the UK industry, now only about 40,000. The average pay for a worker is £36000 which the reporter state is 28% above the national average wage. UK Steel industry is in trouble because it can be sourced cheaper elsewhere ( China) -OK quality may not be same but that is probably only important in high spec products). So it's production is uneconomical in the UK and cannot compete on the world stage.

Reporter spoke to a union leader at one plant and he was saying the previous owners had not invested in the plants. Hmmm? Did he honestly think someone should pour money into a non-profitable company where its work force were earning 28% more than the national average? Talk about being blind to the root cause. Wonder if the unions ever considered the long term effects of maximising wage demands during past negotiations.

The phrase - you reap what you sow - comes to mind.

Hi atlanta, average pay 28% national average may not be the issue, I'd expect some higher skills and some tough working conditions in steel making, I's also expect that steel is a capital intensive industry, rather than labour intensive, so higher than average wages may not have a comparable impact on costs. It's possible that the scale and/or age of the plants may be an issue compared with competition. It's also said that China's costs are kept lower than they would otherwise be by exchange rates. Big factor for all energy intensive industries in the UK are energy costs and "green, climate change" add-ons to these costs. The UK Govt (Blair/Brown in the first instance) have loaded energy costs with "carbon emissions obligations." These look good when we look at UK's reduction in carbon emissions, but it can be argued that all that has happened is that the manufacturing has been exported and the carbon emissions are now in China, Turkey and other major iron and steel processing nations.

[Tricky Trevor]

Tata are bastards. They bought Irish Steel on Hawlbowline Island in Cork Harbour with an agreement to run it for a minimum of 10 years.
10 years later they walked away leaving a contaminated island that cost Cork council a fortune to rectify.
The workers only found out because one of the bosses children was celebrating going home to India.

[dougcollins]

As someone already pointed out, a bit weird to come on a football message board 15 minutes before kick -off to give steelworkers' unions a kicking?

[Dark Cloud]

For UK Steel see also UK Coal. Absolutely no point in producing something which is either too expensive or which nobody really wants (or both). In a communist backed country pre 1989 it was all the rage and allowed to happen year on year, but not in a "western", market driven economy. Sad, but true, unfortunately.

[Wirvine]

There are certain industries in any country that must be considered strategically necessary. The steel industry is one of those. The UK needs to retain it's ability to make the high end products and some capacity to produce the lower end products.

Since the 1990's the Chinese steel industry has gone from being insignificant to now producing more than 800 million Tonnes per annum. This is more than half of the world's crude steel making production. China is the envy of the steel making world in that this boom has been on the back of installing the world's best equipped and most modern steel plants. Fortunately for us, the Chinese steel worker still does not have the same quality mentality that the: Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese, most Western Europeans and the North Americans have. I haven't mentioned the South Americans, or Eastern Europeans as I have not worked in steel plants in those regions.

I haven't worked in the UK since 1993. When I left we had a lot of very old steel plants but some excellent equipment and personnel. I guess that back then the average steel worker would earn 25% ish above the national average wage. Steel making in dirty, technically challenging and a 24/7 process so they do shift work. Mostly countries would typically pay a premium for steel workers. The problem with BSC at that time wasn't the wages. It was the man-hours per Tonne of steel that was killing them. Now that we are competing with the Chinese they also have lower rates of pay and require less man hours per Tonne as well as subsidies from the State and provinces.

It is estimated that between 7-9% of the world's carbon emissions come from steel making. It is safe to assume that the Chinese steel industry produces 4% of the world's carbon emissions.

Sorry just rambling now.

Those "Bastards" are Tata Steel bought Irish Steel when no-one else would. When they bought it I am pretty sure that it would be very clear in their contract who was responsible for remediating the lan when they left after ten years. Seems to me that they fullfilled their obligations in that they employed the people of Cork for ten years longer than anyone else would..

The next/current big boom in Steelmaking is in India. The home of Tata. Just imagine if they produce and extra 200 million Tonnes of steel the increase in Carbon emissions.

China now has over 200 coal fired power stations. India is in the midst of a coal fired power station boom. Now I hear all sorts of bullshit talked about when it comes to coal. Coal isn't coal. Let just simplify it into Black coal and Brown coal. Black coal burns much cleaner than Brown coal which is full of Sulphur. Guess what type of Coal the Chinese and Indians mine.

Now I am not saying that we should not reduce our Carbon emissions. I am just pointing out that the two countries that can potentially make by far the biggest difference and China and India.

I haven't got on to the emissions from cars yet but have a guess which countries have increased the number of vehicles most significantly recently.

The USA of course is next on the list.