Fossil Fuel Companies

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Hipper
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Fossil Fuel Companies

Post by Hipper » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:32 am

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -emissions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1. It shows our lack of interest in this subject that no-one is discussing it as we talk about Brexit, banning snacking etc..

2. There is probably a case against these and other companies but they have also been pandering to a lifestyle that we have mostly been happy to accept. You might argue that they decided on our lifestyle choices but I'm not sure that absolves us of any guilt. Many of us have probably benefited from shares in these companies, both directly or via pensions etc..

dsr
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Re: Fossil Fuel Companies

Post by dsr » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:04 am

How many people on here are willing to get rid of all the things that have become common since 1965? Get rid of cars, central heating, washing machines, freezers, probably fridges too, foreign holidays, possibly UK holidays, the internet, TV, cheap food.

Why would anyone argue that the fossil fuel companies are responsible for me flying to America every year, me driving a car, me using the internet, me heating my house? It's nonsense. It's my choice.

SonofPog
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Re: Fossil Fuel Companies

Post by SonofPog » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:12 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ossil-fuel

"The big polluters’ masterstroke was to blame the climate crisis on you and me" This commentary answers some of those questions dsr,
"The Guardian’s polluters series reports that just 20 fossil fuel companies, some owned by states, some by shareholders, have produced 35% of the carbon dioxide and methane released by human activities since 1965. This was the year in which the president of the American Petroleum Institute told his members that the carbon dioxide they produced could cause “marked changes in climate” by the year 2000. They knew what they were doing."
1965, think about that, try to imagine what a different would we could live in if since 1965, we had tried to build a different world a different mindset, but no, they advertised, and lobbied government, so they could continue doing what they do, when it did become a major issue, they used those funds to smear those "crusties".

But as Jonathan Pie put it this week, no one looks good in the climate debate.... You're either a hypocrite or an Ar%ehole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuCmdtcWKog

fatboy47
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Re: Fossil Fuel Companies

Post by fatboy47 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:14 am

Even the average goon on utc knows that if its all left to the individual and played out under the tunnel visioned greed of the multi nationals then the whole shebang isnt going to last much more than a few decades now.
Things can only be changed by the very big fish now...its just a matter of how long they sit with their fingers in their ears shouting la la la!!

RMutt
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Re: Fossil Fuel Companies

Post by RMutt » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:29 am

I know a few people who have taken individual stands against companies of who they disapprove. I have a mates who will not have Sky, some will not use Amazon etc. The problem is these sacrifices, where you cut your nose to spite your face. feel so insignificant it hardly seems worth it. We all moan about the death of the high street but then go to the supermarket or shop online. This is why we have governments, to make the big decisions for us that we then all have to follow. Unfortunately governments often make bad decisions or the wrong decisions. And of course they are susceptible to lobbying and influence from the big companies.

dsr
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Re: Fossil Fuel Companies

Post by dsr » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:50 am

SonofPog wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ossil-fuel

"The big polluters’ masterstroke was to blame the climate crisis on you and me" This commentary answers some of those questions dsr,
There's a lot of rubbish in that article. We don't use the internet because "consumerism" makes us. We do it from choice. Foreign holidays, air travel, cars, are all more convenient for the individual than the alternatives. That's why we have them. Going back to 1965 - a housewife would have the choice between washing the old fashioned way with a tub and a posser, or getting one of these new fangled washing machines that takes a quarter the time with a tenth of the effort. Was it the fault of the oil companies that she chose the machine? Go back to the introduction of central heating. Was the desire to have a warm bedroom just because the oil companies told you it was a good idea, or is it a result of normal human desire to be warm? For that matter, is normal human desire to be warm just driven by the oil companies?

People have always wanted to be richer and more comfortable. Oil and gas accompanied by the growth of technology has made that possible. And if the rest of the world looks at our lifestyle and decides they want some of that, then is that just because the oil companies tell them to? Or is it normal human behaviour?
This user liked this post: LeadBelly

SonofPog
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Re: Fossil Fuel Companies

Post by SonofPog » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am

I get where you're coming from dsr, yes, human nature is to do the easiest thing, Yes
People have always wanted to be richer and more comfortable.
True,

But the next line is important too
Oil and gas accompanied by the growth of technology has made that possible.
And the Oil and gas companies knew what their products did, back in 1965, yet not only did they sort to keep selling their products to us; they actively smeared anyone that questioned what was happening.
What could / would have technology looked like if it had been made alongside knowledge of environmental impact? Would it have taken 50+ years for use to start recycling? to look into Carbon storage? Would we have already found a way to store Nuclear waste?

Another example today, Do you use the worlds most popular search engine? Yes, congrats; you contribute to climate change deniers.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ge-deniers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Am I to be blamed for taking the convenient option of using a search engine or should they be blamed for saying one thing and doing another?

No one looks good in the climate debate.... You're either a hypocrite or an Ar%ehole.

Lancasterclaret
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Re: Fossil Fuel Companies

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:34 am

I think the problem is that its such a huge problem that it seems that individual actions without massive government support seem like a drop in the ocean.

I mean, we've cut down on our meat usage, have been a one car family for a long time, cycle and walk to as many places as we can, recycle everything etc etc

But unless we can find tech solutions to the problems, I just don't see how we sort it.

CombatClaret
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Re: Fossil Fuel Companies

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:38 am

dsr wrote:How many people on here are willing to get rid of all the things that have become common since 1965? Get rid of cars, central heating, washing machines, freezers, probably fridges too, foreign holidays, possibly UK holidays, the internet, TV, cheap food.

Why would anyone argue that the fossil fuel companies are responsible for me flying to America every year, me driving a car, me using the internet, me heating my house? It's nonsense. It's my choice.
Also worth a read

The big polluters’ masterstroke was to blame the climate crisis on you and me
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ossil-fuel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thatdberight
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Re: Fossil Fuel Companies

Post by thatdberight » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:04 pm

CombatClaret wrote:Also worth a read

The big polluters’ masterstroke was to blame the climate crisis on you and me
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ossil-fuel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
While the Guardian's masterstroke was to blame it on the sort of people they always blame for everything...

houseboy
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Re: Fossil Fuel Companies

Post by houseboy » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:45 pm

The problem with the environment issue is that everyone is too busy blaming everyone else. We are ALL to blame, the whole human race, but nothing can be done unless EVERYONE agrees and that is where it all falls apart. One person saying 'I'm doing my bit by recycling' doesn't cut it because unless we all go back to living in the pre-Victorian times it doesn't really work. Pollution in it's mass form started around the time of the industrial revolution and no more so than in our own region (Lancashire's dark satanic mills) and it has moved on apace since then. Even if we as a nation went totally green do we really think that the USA and it's dollar obsessed business leaders would move with us? China? India? Two of the biggest growing economies on earth are not going to stop doing what they do because the West says it has to.

The only answer to this problem is for the whole of humanity to come together as one and decide that sacrifices have to be made and we all know that even if there were 10 days to fix it or we all die there are still those who would not agree to it. Greed, desire, call it what you will, I don't think we will ever get an answer to this difficult problem.

I am as guilty as anyone so I'm not being hypocritical. Until there is mass agreement globally most people, me included, will just say 'why should I change when no-one else is'? I grieve in advance for my grandchildren and their kids but I just don't see answer and that is probably the saddest thing of all.

Bosscat
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Re: Fossil Fuel Companies

Post by Bosscat » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:17 pm

World population has increased in the past 70 years over 3 fold...
world-population-since-1650.jpg
world-population-since-1650.jpg (54.44 KiB) Viewed 767 times
Unless we stop breeding at the current rate we are ****ed

Rowls
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Re: Fossil Fuel Companies

Post by Rowls » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:32 pm

For every new mouth to feed there are two hands.

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