Extinction Rebellion

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Imploding Turtle
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Imploding Turtle » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:53 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:In an act of stupidity, I voted for Julie.

Never again.
Good. Keep voting for parties who support action on climate change. I assume you won't be voting for any Brexit supporting parties since all of them are deniers.

Paul Waine
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Paul Waine » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:01 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I am not sure it works to well for me.

I agree lots of people are saying it will help climate change. I have not scrutinised the evidence but have seen issues like cows farting or something.

The reason I don’t think it works for me is I have birch pollen allergy syndrome and nut allergies that require me to carry two epipens at all times.

So when you remove fruit, nuts and several other food items I cannot eat. I might just struggle .

However meat free days are probably a good idea.
Hi Lowbank, no worries. Sorry to hear you have allergies and carry epipens. I'm in a similar situation, but only with wheat (maybe also other gluten) plus raised body temp/exercising. All my colleagues now know the drill - if we go for a meal from work I can only eat gluten free. Heart attack made me cut back on red meat. Also, need exercise to maintain healthy "ticker." My cardio meds make me more likely to suffer allergic reaction - which I discovered dramatically! Things all under control, now I know what to do and what to avoid. Lot's of fruit and veg is good for me (so long as no gluten). I can go a few days a week on vegetarian diet. Yes, not strictly "all vegan" - and bacon and egg on (gluten free) bread is great, occasionally.

I'm pleased to do my bit for climate change and look after my health at the same time by enjoying a vegan diet on a few days each week.

My better half has told me there was a discussion of motdx vegan recommendations on R4 this morning. Their guest argued against it - said the climate change benefits were overstated or unproven or something. (I've no idea who the guest was).

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:18 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Lowbank, no worries. Sorry to hear you have allergies and carry epipens. I'm in a similar situation, but only with wheat (maybe also other gluten) plus raised body temp/exercising. All my colleagues now know the drill - if we go for a meal from work I can only eat gluten free. Heart attack made me cut back on red meat. Also, need exercise to maintain healthy "ticker." My cardio meds make me more likely to suffer allergic reaction - which I discovered dramatically! Things all under control, now I know what to do and what to avoid. Lot's of fruit and veg is good for me (so long as no gluten). I can go a few days a week on vegetarian diet. Yes, not strictly "all vegan" - and bacon and egg on (gluten free) bread is great, occasionally.

I'm pleased to do my bit for climate change and look after my health at the same time by enjoying a vegan diet on a few days each week.

My better half has told me there was a discussion of motdx vegan recommendations on R4 this morning. Their guest argued against it - said the climate change benefits were overstated or unproven or something. (I've no idea who the guest was).

I would be really interested in reading some reports on this, “vegan diet can save the planet claims “

Large areas that are used for rearing Sheep for example could not be cultivated to grow crops. Not sure what effect this would have if any.

Great swathes of our farming land is technically infertile due to intensive farming techniques. It only continues to grow crops due to massive additions of petrochemical created fertilisers and the spraying of large amounts of pesticides . An issue that certainly needs action in my view. I not seen this mentioned by ER.

I also saw yesterday ER broccoli man, drives a diesel Merc Sprinter Van, interestingly.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:33 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I would be really interested in reading some reports on this, “vegan diet can save the planet claims “

Large areas that are used for rearing Sheep for example could not be cultivated to grow crops. Not sure what effect this would have if any.

Great swathes of our farming land is technically infertile due to intensive farming techniques. It only continues to grow crops due to massive additions of petrochemical created fertilisers and the spraying of large amounts of pesticides . An issue that certainly needs action in my view. I not seen this mentioned by ER.

I also saw yesterday ER broccoli man, drives a diesel Merc Sprinter Van, interestingly.

It's not really about the land and is more about the gases cows and sheep emit. But no one needs to go vegan to "save the planet", but switching from beef to chicken and pork would be a huge chunk of someones carbon footprint removed.

But even there it's perfectly possible to not have to switch eating habits at all if our government got serious about switching us from fossil fuels. This whole idea that we can "save the planet" by switching our diets is absolutely pointless if we continue to base run economies on oil and gas. And i dare say that's the point of the veganism idea, to keep us from focusing on the real problem - the fossil fuel industry.

We have the technology to replace almost all the fossil fuels we use with renewable fuel sources like solar and wind, then no one has to change a thing about their diet. The problem is that very rich people stand to lose an awful lot of money if we do that, and politicians funded/owned by them are standing in the way of action on their behalf.

This is why i really don't give a **** about one individuals carbon footprint, because getting 7 billion people in hundreds of different countries all to change their lives is basically impossible compared to how easy it is to get them to vote for politicians who will take serious action. The problem with our politics is that it is revolved around money and is privately funded, and politicians who would be serious about the issue aren't funded anywhere near as well as the politicians who want to protect the most profitable industry in history. (Which, btw, is why i laugh at anyone questioning how XR is so "well funded".)

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:48 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I would be really interested in reading some reports on this, “vegan diet can save the planet claims “

Large areas that are used for rearing Sheep for example could not be cultivated to grow crops. Not sure what effect this would have if any.

Great swathes of our farming land is technically infertile due to intensive farming techniques. It only continues to grow crops due to massive additions of petrochemical created fertilisers and the spraying of large amounts of pesticides . An issue that certainly needs action in my view. I not seen this mentioned by ER.

I also saw yesterday ER broccoli man, drives a diesel Merc Sprinter Van, interestingly.
Hi Lowbank, the argument I've heard made is that the cattle and sheep farm land would be returned to growing trees. At present, it's said that a lot of the farm land growing crops to feed cattle/sheep/pigs etc would be more efficient to feed humans directly. It would be interesting if some "solid scientific facts" could be provided. It would be great if there's some truth to these claims. Even if these re-purposing of farming land doesn't tackle all the issue, I can imagine that a lot more crops will be grow in the indoor, controlled lighting/heating environment, multi-level, automated "plant cultivation" (my phrase) factories. If these are truly a possibility, we could see a lot more crops produced near to the consumers, so saving "food miles" as well as all the other stuff!

Yes, I noticed reports of "broccoli man's" preferred means of transport. Who would have guessed it! ;)

EDIT: Of course, it's possible that people who enjoy their McD Big Mac may not want to do their little bit to aid climate change by choosing the veggie burger once in a while!

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:50 am

The police ban on ER protests was ruled illegal yesterday, btw. Haven't seen it get a mention on here in the middle of Tories putting their foot in their mouths and the rest of us laughing at them, but i thought it should get at least one.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Vegas Claret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:07 am

plant a **** load of trees would be a good ******* start

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:59 am

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Lowbank, the argument I've heard made is that the cattle and sheep farm land would be returned to growing trees. At present, it's said that a lot of the farm land growing crops to feed cattle/sheep/pigs etc would be more efficient to feed humans directly. It would be interesting if some "solid scientific facts" could be provided. It would be great if there's some truth to these claims. Even if these re-purposing of farming land doesn't tackle all the issue, I can imagine that a lot more crops will be grow in the indoor, controlled lighting/heating environment, multi-level, automated "plant cultivation" (my phrase) factories. If these are truly a possibility, we could see a lot more crops produced near to the consumers, so saving "food miles" as well as all the other stuff!

Yes, I noticed reports of "broccoli man's" preferred means of transport. Who would have guessed it! ;)

EDIT: Of course, it's possible that people who enjoy their McD Big Mac may not want to do their little bit to aid climate change by choosing the veggie burger once in a while!
It's the future of food production and there are so many dirty old industrial buildings that are no longer used that can be repurposed for it.

And it's not just good for us. Imagine the possibilities of this in countries that don't have an economy, and are stricken by poverty and famine because their ground doesn't grow anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_tvJtUHnmU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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aggi
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by aggi » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:10 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Well I have just been on their website and good 14 year old could have put that together.

It just. Repeats itself again and again.

It quotes reports without links .

The main thing is it all about protesting without any real clear aims.
You're probably the best placed person to answer this.

I was looking at the twitter feed of the Burnley Brexit Party candidate and I noticed that he denies that climate change is happening.

Is this official Brexit Party policy (I'm not sure whether they actually have any policies yet other than Brexit at all costs but I assume they must), does the party have an official line on it?

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by aggi » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:15 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Lowbank, I've just watched a bit of Motdx. Jermaine Jenas and veganism. Dale Vince, Forest Green (amongst other things) makes the case for veganism to reduce our carbon footprints. Chris Smalling also suggests that his meat free diet improved his fitness and injury recovery time.

It's worth a thought. Maybe we can all be vegans, maybe just one or two days a week.
I've been attempting to be vegetarian (not vegan) during the week. It's more for health than environment reasons (although I can certainly see the sense in the suggestion that eating veg is a lower impact than eating animals given that animals aren't 100% efficient at converting their food into food for us).

I've actually quite enjoyed the range of food that I wouldn't normally eat and it's generally healthier than a meal with meat, the main issue that you have to be a bit more organised about the shopping.
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:25 pm

aggi wrote:You're probably the best placed person to answer this.

I was looking at the twitter feed of the Burnley Brexit Party candidate and I noticed that he denies that climate change is happening.

Is this official Brexit Party policy (I'm not sure whether they actually have any policies yet other than Brexit at all costs but I assume they must), does the party have an official line on it?

I don’t think it’s party policy.

I will admit the policy releases and communication is not very well planned.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Devils_Advocate » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:40 pm

New tactics for dealing with ER protesters seem to be working well

https://twitter.com/i/status/1192537249516335109

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:46 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Lowbank, the argument I've heard made is that the cattle and sheep farm land would be returned to growing trees. At present, it's said that a lot of the farm land growing crops to feed cattle/sheep/pigs etc would be more efficient to feed humans directly. It would be interesting if some "solid scientific facts" could be provided. It would be great if there's some truth to these claims. Even if these re-purposing of farming land doesn't tackle all the issue, I can imagine that a lot more crops will be grow in the indoor, controlled lighting/heating environment, multi-level, automated "plant cultivation" (my phrase) factories. If these are truly a possibility, we could see a lot more crops produced near to the consumers, so saving "food miles" as well as all the other stuff!

Yes, I noticed reports of "broccoli man's" preferred means of transport. Who would have guessed it! ;)

EDIT: Of course, it's possible that people who enjoy their McD Big Mac may not want to do their little bit to aid climate change by choosing the veggie burger once in a while!
I think a good idea would be to tax most food miles. Not for staples such as rice, but for foodstuffs air freighted here, and things that could be grown here profitably without competition from places like Peru, or Australia. I remember reading the JM Keynes quote back in the early nineties, when globalisation was taking off: "Ideas, knowledge, science, hospitality, travel–these are the things which should of their nature be international. But let goods be homespun whenever it is reasonably and conveniently possible, and, above all, let finance be primarily national" - I think now, with the climate emergency we have to consider what is good and what isn't so good with globalisation. See more of his 1933 work here: https://www.panarchy.org/keynes/national.1933.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another way forward is the increased use of hemp as a natural material. Humans have used hemp for thousands of years, and if we can get over the fact that some people smoke it to get high, it could be an extremely useful plant again. This link is just about hemp as a means of making paper (as compared with trees). Again back in the early nineties I came across the statistic that an acre of hemp could produce as much paper as (four - I think) acres of trees, and grows back the next year. https://ministryofhemp.com/blog/hemp-paper/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Beyond paper, there is also hemp oil (the same book suggested that if five percent of the continental US were used to grow hemp, it would solve their energy crisis).

On diet, I think it's best to take small steps. If you eat meat all the time (which you don't - so for anyone who does), then just begin with one vegetarian meal a week. Then make it a vegetarian day. For anyone who absolutely loves eating meat, it's a small sacrifice, but when you consider beans, and lentils - there are a huge number of recipies out there for really good tasting food. If you make a vegetarian shepherd's pie with lentils, and use a lamb stock cube to flavour it, you might find the difference is minimal - though the price is a lot lower. Another idea around diet is fasting. Just one day out of the week, reduce your calories to a very minimal number (suggestion is 600 for a man). I've done this before and the weight loss is amazing (combined with exercise). My method was to front end load my calories - breakfast of porridge, lunch of a salad with a boiled egg and piece of smoked mackerel, and this gets you through your work day. Once home eat nothing and go to bed early.
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Stayingup » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:58 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The police ban on ER protests was ruled illegal yesterday, btw. Haven't seen it get a mention on here in the middle of Tories putting their foot in their mouths and the rest of us laughing at them, but i thought it should get at least one.
No. The rest of us are laughing at such a ignoramus as you. You really are an economic illiterate. Its very easy to see you have never had to work for yourself. Indeed have you ever worked in private industry. Doubt it because your mind and thinking, such as it is, is so narrow. Do yoursef a favour, get a passport and go to Russia. You'll love it. Charaterless bereft individuals. Like you, you'll fit in. The state wil lok after you. Give you a vegetable patch, two shorts a year and if your lucky a pair of pants and a jacket. Might not be new mind you. The Turtlee hits Kabarosk. Go there.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:34 pm

AndrewJB wrote:I think a good idea would be to tax most food miles. Not for staples such as rice, but for foodstuffs air freighted here, and things that could be grown here profitably without competition from places like Peru, or Australia. I remember reading the JM Keynes quote back in the early nineties, when globalisation was taking off: "Ideas, knowledge, science, hospitality, travel–these are the things which should of their nature be international. But let goods be homespun whenever it is reasonably and conveniently possible, and, above all, let finance be primarily national" - I think now, with the climate emergency we have to consider what is good and what isn't so good with globalisation. See more of his 1933 work here: https://www.panarchy.org/keynes/national.1933.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another way forward is the increased use of hemp as a natural material. Humans have used hemp for thousands of years, and if we can get over the fact that some people smoke it to get high, it could be an extremely useful plant again. This link is just about hemp as a means of making paper (as compared with trees). Again back in the early nineties I came across the statistic that an acre of hemp could produce as much paper as (four - I think) acres of trees, and grows back the next year. https://ministryofhemp.com/blog/hemp-paper/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Beyond paper, there is also hemp oil (the same book suggested that if five percent of the continental US were used to grow hemp, it would solve their energy crisis).

On diet, I think it's best to take small steps. If you eat meat all the time (which you don't - so for anyone who does), then just begin with one vegetarian meal a week. Then make it a vegetarian day. For anyone who absolutely loves eating meat, it's a small sacrifice, but when you consider beans, and lentils - there are a huge number of recipies out there for really good tasting food. If you make a vegetarian shepherd's pie with lentils, and use a lamb stock cube to flavour it, you might find the difference is minimal - though the price is a lot lower. Another idea around diet is fasting. Just one day out of the week, reduce your calories to a very minimal number (suggestion is 600 for a man). I've done this before and the weight loss is amazing (combined with exercise). My method was to front end load my calories - breakfast of porridge, lunch of a salad with a boiled egg and piece of smoked mackerel, and this gets you through your work day. Once home eat nothing and go to bed early.

You make some very good points.

As people we have choices on how to spend our money. We have a lot of power if we only got together to use it.

That’s why I buy my meat from a smallholding in Burnley or a farm in Bacup.

Very few miles travelled.

Seem mad to me that Welsh lamb goes to France, British lamb goes to Wales.
New Zealand lamb to the uk.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:04 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's the future of food production and there are so many dirty old industrial buildings that are no longer used that can be repurposed for it.

And it's not just good for us. Imagine the possibilities of this in countries that don't have an economy, and are stricken by poverty and famine because their ground doesn't grow anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_tvJtUHnmU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hi IT, thanks for posting the youtube video. It's impressive if a lot of our veggie food needs can be met by vertical farms.

And, I'm celebrating this evening, IT and I have found something that we agree on. :D

EDIT: "Our" in my world refers to everyone in the world. As IT says, if crops can be grown in countries with "barren and in-hospitable" land then we will be tackling the problems for people in poverty in these countries.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:24 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:You make some very good points.

As people we have choices on how to spend our money. We have a lot of power if we only got together to use it.

That’s why I buy my meat from a smallholding in Burnley or a farm in Bacup.

Very few miles travelled.

Seem mad to me that Welsh lamb goes to France, British lamb goes to Wales.
New Zealand lamb to the uk.
Thanks - but we as consumers can’t make enough of a difference just through the choices we make. We need the government to take the lead on this.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:41 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Thanks - but we as consumers can’t make enough of a difference just through the choices we make. We need the government to take the lead on this.
That’s small mind , small thinking.

I however think the consumer holds the balance of power.
Just shame they think like lemmings

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:58 pm

AndrewJB wrote:I think a good idea would be to tax most food miles. Not for staples such as rice, but for foodstuffs air freighted here, and things that could be grown here profitably without competition from places like Peru, or Australia. I remember reading the JM Keynes quote back in the early nineties, when globalisation was taking off: "Ideas, knowledge, science, hospitality, travel–these are the things which should of their nature be international. But let goods be homespun whenever it is reasonably and conveniently possible, and, above all, let finance be primarily national" - I think now, with the climate emergency we have to consider what is good and what isn't so good with globalisation. See more of his 1933 work here: https://www.panarchy.org/keynes/national.1933.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hi Andrew, I'd be careful taking too much from JM Keynes in the early 1930s. We all know (I hope) that the 1930s depressions was a result of national protectionism - the very opposite of "globalisation." "Let finance be primarily national" is one of the most negative and harmful policies anyone could follow if they are concerned with the lesser developed countries sharing in economic progress. Similarly, climate change can only be tackled on the global stage.

I'm sure that Keynes would agree that "when the facts change, I change my mind" is as true of his views on international trade and finance being primarily national as anything else he did. ;)

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:32 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:That’s small mind , small thinking.

I however think the consumer holds the balance of power.
Just shame they think like lemmings
The consumer has a choice between what the government allows them to choose from. Only the government can take away the “bad” choice. The government has to take the lead.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:47 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Andrew, I'd be careful taking too much from JM Keynes in the early 1930s. We all know (I hope) that the 1930s depressions was a result of national protectionism - the very opposite of "globalisation." "Let finance be primarily national" is one of the most negative and harmful policies anyone could follow if they are concerned with the lesser developed countries sharing in economic progress. Similarly, climate change can only be tackled on the global stage.

I'm sure that Keynes would agree that "when the facts change, I change my mind" is as true of his views on international trade and finance being primarily national as anything else he did. ;)
I’m sorry but the internationalisation of finance - allowing capital to go wherever it wants - has been a bad thing for the world.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:55 pm

AndrewJB wrote:I’m sorry but the internationalisation of finance - allowing capital to go wherever it wants - has been a bad thing for the world.
Hi Andrew, no, no, no, that is so wrong. You know, even Marxism was supposed to be international. If capital wasn't allowed to go where it is needed (yes, capital only ever goes where it is needed) then we would all be living (much shorter life span) in poverty.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by deanothedino » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:56 pm

Paul Waine wrote: My better half has told me there was a discussion of motdx vegan recommendations on R4 this morning. Their guest argued against it - said the climate change benefits were overstated or unproven or something. (I've no idea who the guest was).
Going vegan has a similar impact as skipping one transatlantic flight a year or something like that. So, yes it is tiny. And that’s before you take into account that the farming of some crops that tend to feature in vegan diets are wiping out similar amounts of forest as those used for meat farming.

Also, health benefits to being vegan? That aspect is definitely unproven.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:01 pm

deanothedino wrote:Going vegan has a similar impact as skipping one transatlantic flight a year or something like that. So, yes it is tiny. And that’s before you take into account that the farming of some crops that tend to feature in vegan diets are wiping out similar amounts of forest as those used for meat farming.

Also, health benefits to being vegan? That aspect is definitely unproven.
Hi deano, we've already sorted the crop growing - we can use old factories, all grown indoors.

Less meat, more fruit and veg, my health is great!

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by deanothedino » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:53 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi deano, we've already sorted the crop growing - we can use old factories, all grown indoors.

Less meat, more fruit and veg, my health is great!
And the carbon impact of heating those indoor spaces? Water impact of irrigating them?

Your health may be, but you’re still eating meat

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:56 pm

deanothedino wrote:And the carbon impact of heating those indoor spaces? Water impact of irrigating them?

Your health may be, but you’re still eating meat
Take a look at IT's link. The system doesn't "heat" the indoor growing spaces and it requires very little water.

Interestingly, growing plants absorbs carbon dioxide. If you are growing plants in greenhouses you do best if you pump carbon dioxide into the enclosures so that the plants can grow.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by deanothedino » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:09 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Take a look at IT's link. The system doesn't "heat" the indoor growing spaces and it requires very little water.

Interestingly, growing plants absorbs carbon dioxide. If you are growing plants in greenhouses you do best if you pump carbon dioxide into the enclosures so that the plants can grow.
Plants absorb a tiny amount of carbon dioxide in the grand scheme of things. Partly because they emit at night, half of what they absorbed during the day.

I will take a look at the link though.
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:41 pm

AndrewJB wrote:The consumer has a choice between what the government allows them to choose from. Only the government can take away the “bad” choice. The government has to take the lead.

Seriously you need to think outside of the small box you live in.

You can have way more power than you think.

Look at 16 year old Greta.

She got thousands of kids to strike.

Some one is is confining you.


YOU.

dsr
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by dsr » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:06 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:Seriously you need to think outside of the small box you live in.

You can have way more power than you think.

Look at 16 year old Greta.

She got thousands of kids to strike.

Some one is is confining you.


YOU.
To be fair, persuading children not to go to school isn't a major challenge. Now if she can persuade them to have a day of protest during the school holidays - and especially if she can persuade them to cancel their foreign trips and "holiday at home" - then she will have achieved something.

AndrewJB
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:53 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:Seriously you need to think outside of the small box you live in.

You can have way more power than you think.

Look at 16 year old Greta.

She got thousands of kids to strike.

Some one is is confining you.


YOU.
Thunberg is an activist attempting to change government policy. What I’ve said is we won’t achieve that change just through our consumer choices.

Lowbankclaret
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:30 pm

dsr wrote:To be fair, persuading children not to go to school isn't a major challenge. Now if she can persuade them to have a day of protest during the school holidays - and especially if she can persuade them to cancel their foreign trips and "holiday at home" - then she will have achieved something.

I agree, but it’s been pretty powerful what she has done.

Lowbankclaret
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:31 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Thunberg is an activist attempting to change government policy. What I’ve said is we won’t achieve that change just through our consumer choices.
We will have to disagree, but consumers can be all powerful if they wish to be.

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