Var needs to be put in professional hands

clive40golf · Post by **clive40golf** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:02 pm

Again a Var decision is wrong for Burnley. I’m totally in favour of var being introduced, but the var referees have to be X professionals, either managers/players/coaches. Today’s goal if viewed by an x professional would never have been disallowed. No intent on the foul, no chance Evans would have cleared it. The referee had the option to view but declined.if this is going to happen time and time again, the referees need help understanding the Game being played.

clansman · Post by **clansman** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:04 pm

Correct
Today was a disaster for var .

clitheroeclaret2 · Post by **clitheroeclaret2** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:05 pm

On a par with Ash Barnes non penalty, what is wrong with these people?

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:08 pm

I bet most of these “premier” league refs have never played the game at any level, their lack of understanding is baffling.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:14 pm

Just mentioned this on the other thread

Should be a panel of 3 - player, manager & ref and at least 2 to agree within a set time.

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:20 pm

Plenty of poor VAR decisions today. It’s not the VAR, it’s the morons with an agenda who are determined to make it look bad to get back to what they had.
The last couple of weeks there have been complaints of them never overturning decisions so today some winker decides he’ll overturn one. What would it matter, it’s only Burnley.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:21 pm

clive40golf wrote:Again a Var decision is wrong for Burnley. I’m totally in favour of var being introduced, but the var referees have to be X professionals, either managers/players/coaches. Today’s goal if viewed by an x professional would never have been disallowed. No intent on the foul, no chance Evans would have cleared it. The referee had the option to view but declined.if this is going to happen time and time again, the referees need help understanding the Game being played.

But we know that most players and managers don’t understand the laws of the game.

basil6345789 · Post by **basil6345789** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:24 pm

Don't like Leicester - they should be extinct for being dodgy. Jug Ears will have a field day tonight on MOTD.

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:25 pm

That's 3 decisions gone against us now
Wolves penalty
Barnes penalty v Norwich
And the nonsensical decision today

For us disallowed goals at Arsenal and Villa which were the correct verdicts

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:28 pm

SD has just made a point that Moss didn’t check the monitor.
Has any VAR decision been “rechecked” by the ref on the monitor?

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:31 pm

Who made the decision ? He needs to be outed and struck off

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:35 pm

I know that VAR can overrule a ref and disallow a ‘goal’ or award a goal that a ref has disallowed. I didn’t know that a ref could overrule VAR so what would be the point of Moss checking a monitor AFTER VAR has given a ruling?

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:40 pm

VAR is a job for the boys. It seems to get the offside spot on as theres no argument as its perfectly clear and accurate.

However the straight reds and fouls leaves it up to interpretation and opinion.

Plus the standard of referees in this country is quite poor. Theres 2 very good ones, 2 good ones then a couple ok, the rest are poor or very poor.
They're very much protected too which doesnt help.

Seems everyone else in the game has to explain their decisions or actions but them.
Until that changes who knows what goes through their heads.

A few ex refs say Mike Riley is one of the reasons the standard is so poor

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:44 pm

Darnhill Claret wrote:I know that VAR can overrule a ref and disallow a ‘goal’ or award a goal that a ref has disallowed. I didn’t know that a ref could overrule VAR so what would be the point of Moss checking a monitor AFTER VAR has given a ruling?

I thought the 2 “overrule” options for VAR were “you’ve made an obvious mistake - reverse your decision” or “I think you’ve made a mistake you might won’t to check pitch side”

As nobody has yet checked pitch side, I’m now assuming it’s only the first option

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:50 pm

Cant believe anyone ever thought it would be a good idea. Never mind Burnley fans. Abysmal system that ruins the game. And without implying the worlds against us, its never going to benefit a team like us. In fact it will never give us a balanced outcome.

That penalty that went against Rovers this morning equally poor. And VAR would uphold penalties like that.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:50 pm

Darnhill Claret wrote:I know that VAR can overrule a ref and disallow a ‘goal’ or award a goal that a ref has disallowed. I didn’t know that a ref could overrule VAR so what would be the point of Moss checking a monitor AFTER VAR has given a ruling?

Moss could have taken the decision into his own hands and checked the monitor.

clive40golf · Post by **clive40golf** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:59 pm

Darnhill Claret wrote:I know that VAR can overrule a ref and disallow a ‘goal’ or award a goal that a ref has disallowed. I didn’t know that a ref could overrule VAR so what would be the point of Moss checking a monitor AFTER VAR has given a ruling?

The Var refs are there to help the referees not make the decision. Any referee worth his salt would check the monitor on such a close/contentious/misinterpable decision. If there not even going to check, what’s the point of having monitors pitch side.

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:10 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:SD has just made a point that Moss didn’t check the monitor.
Has any VAR decision been “rechecked” by the ref on the monitor?

Out of every single PL game played this season so far,the ref has checked for himself by using the screen provided for him to help make the correct decision................

0 times !

It's a PL stat available online

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:29 pm

Keep saying it but in principle the idea is great but it’s relying on the same idiots who have been making the errors in the first place to correct them.

The idiot in the box today looked at it and thought it was a clear and obvious foul.
He clearly has no idea about football but is employed to make decisions on and off the pitch. That’s the problem.

Alicanteclaret2 · Post by **Alicanteclaret2** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:37 pm

I watched via tv, saw all of the disputed decisions several times. Feel that rather than clear doubt they make more confusion. Watford penalty Spurs handball, plus care we the first team to have an own goal disallowed!

Burtonwoodclaret · Post by **Burtonwoodclaret** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:30 pm

Do it like Rugby League. Everybody sees the screen and including the ref , the players and the fans. Slow motion and frame by frame are included where necessary. Was it a foul , a dive , or an attempt by the defender to con the ref? would the defender have any chance of preventing the ball crossing the line ? These are the kind of questions that should be openly examined on screen for all to see. It works in Rugby League and has done for a few years now.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:41 pm

Burtonwoodclaret wrote:Do it like Rugby League. Everybody sees the screen and including the ref , the players and the fans. Slow motion and frame by frame are included where necessary. Was it a foul , a dive , or an attempt by the defender to con the ref? would the defender have any chance of preventing the ball crossing the line ? These are the kind of questions that should be openly examined on screen for all to see. It works in Rugby League and has done for a few years now.

Slightly different today as the decision went against the away team. But imagine if the roles were reversed and Leicester had the same goal disallowed with that evidence shown on the big screen in front of 30,000. I agree that it should be though - but an incident like today’s would result in carnage.

Helmshore Claret · Post by **Helmshore Claret** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:44 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:SD has just made a point that Moss didn’t check the monitor.
Has any VAR decision been “rechecked” by the ref on the monitor?

Thought about this since the season started and I have yet see any ref go to the 'pitchside' monitor (do they exist?).
When I watch the Bundesliga highlights show most VAR situations culminate with the ref revisiting the incident and at least, giving the impression that they were having the final say. In the World Cup the ref went to the monitor every time VAR was used; I think that the present implementation is a proper 'stitch-up'!

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:04 pm

Presumably the VAR official told Moss that the decision was clear and obvious, none but a fool could think otherwise, you must have been blind as a bat to miss it. And moss thought "yes, that fits" and accepted it.

paulatky · Post by **paulatky** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:09 pm

I believe the VAR official was Micheal Oliver

Burtonwoodclaret · Post by **Burtonwoodclaret** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:29 am

I can’t help but wonder if the emotion of the occasion had an influence on the decision. Had it been the other way would ref have consulted VAR ? This is not sour grapes , because I really understand the impact that helicopter crash had on everyone at the club.

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:46 am

It's a shambles. I'd be interested to know if fans were ever formally asked if they wanted VAR to be introduced in the Premier League. And if fans were involved in deciding how it should be used. And if fans are now being asked for feedback on how it is performing.

I suspect I know the answers.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:53 am

Rileybobs wrote:Slightly different today as the decision went against the away team. But imagine if the roles were reversed and Leicester had the same goal disallowed with that evidence shown on the big screen in front of 30,000. I agree that it should be though - but an incident like today’s would result in carnage.

There hasn't been carnage at an English top flight game for decades.
Plenty of dodgy decisions have been made within that time.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:57 am

paulatky wrote:I believe the VAR official was Micheal Oliver

I thought the VAR official today was Andy Madley. Sibling of the massively incompetent Bobby....

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:09 am

Herts Clarets wrote:I thought the VAR official today was Andy Madley. Sibling of the massively incompetent Bobby....

And believe it or not Andy is poorer than Bobby!

Saw Andy once give a penalty for an imaginary foul he thought he saw that didn't happen.

Homer/guesser

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:14 am

VAR is already in professional hands. Not knowing this only proves how little knowledge a considerable percentage of fans have.
The percentage of players and fans who don’t know the laws of the game is remarkably high and suggesting that a panel consisting of a player, a manager and a ref means that you want two unqualified persons on a 3 person panel. Great idea. Refs are refs because they can be bothered to learn the laws of the game and have years of officiating to get to the top level. Learn the definition of the offences and then explain how or why that ‘goal’ should have stood. The fact that it wasn’t intentional does not apply I’m afraid.

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:34 am

VAR is in professional hands - people that are paid for being poor....

Every week we see examples of the laws of the game being applied incorrectly because they know the laws but don’t understand the game.

So yesterday:

Watford man is fouled in the box. Law of game is penalty. No pen given by professional.
Wolves man dives into the defender. Law of game is no foul. Pen given for dive by professional.
Our fiasco. No foul. Law of game Is play on if no foul. Free kick given for no foul by professional.
Spurs. Intentional use of arm is foul and yellow card. Professional gives goal. Where does the arm start and stop?

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:35 am

Darnhill Claret wrote:VAR is already in professional hands. Not knowing this only proves how little knowledge a considerable percentage of fans have.
The percentage of players and fans who don’t know the laws of the game is remarkably high and suggesting that a panel consisting of a player, a manager and a ref means that you want two unqualified persons on a 3 person panel. Great idea. Refs are refs because they can be bothered to learn the laws of the game and have years of officiating to get to the top level. Learn the definition of the offences and then explain how or why that ‘goal’ should have stood. The fact that it wasn’t intentional does not apply I’m afraid.

Simples. Wood did not foul.....

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:44 am

Burtonwoodclaret wrote:I can’t help but wonder if the emotion of the occasion had an influence on the decision. Had it been the other way would ref have consulted VAR ? This is not sour grapes , because I really understand the impact that helicopter crash had on everyone at the club.

Emotions about a non football playing related incident a year ago should have the square root of naff all to do with what happened on the pitch yesterday.

If there's an inkling of bias due to that then there are people who need disciplining

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:46 am

The "professionals" are also ****. Most of them haven't played football at a decent level. It's mind boggling that hardly any ex players have tried their hand at reffing. That says something in itself. And I don't mean because it's a hard job. It's not what the institute want. That decision yesterday was a ******* disgrace not matter how much you dress it up.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:46 am

I don't thnk there's any doubt that the decision was made to please the crowd, the club and the Far East viewing audience.
Not only incompetent but perilously close to corrupt.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:47 am

WestMidsClaret wrote:The "professionals" are also ****. Most of them haven't played football at a decent level. It's mind boggling that hardly any ex players have tried their hand at reffing. That says something in itself. And I don't mean because it's a hard job. It's not what the institute want. That decision yesterday was a ******* disgrace not matter how much you dress it up.

Former players have earned so much money why would they feel the need to start reffing Sunday league football?
That's the base that refs start from.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:47 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:I don't thnk there's any doubt that the decision was made to please the crowd, the club and the Far East viewing audience.
Not only incompetent but perilously close to corrupt.

You need to loosen that foil hat.

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:50 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Former players have earned so much money why would they feel the need to start reffing Sunday league football?
That's the base that refs start from.

Because the game needs it. And **** this Sunday football shite reffing off too. That's why refs are ****.

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:55 am

John Deary reffed really low down and he said its like a minefield. That's for someone who knows the game or at the very least has an understanding of it better then someone who starts off reffing kids or pub teams.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:55 am

WestMidsClaret wrote:Because the game needs it. And **** this Sunday football shite off too. That's why refs are ****.

How is a 35 year old former professional footballer going to begin pursuing a career as a referee?

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:56 am

Wood did foul. Just because it wasn’t intentional does not make the foul disappear.
Intentional handball is the offence and is not an automatic caution. There is no offence of handball.
Watford man, subjective.
Wolves man, I have not seen.

I am assuming in thr case of Delle, VAR obviously not convinced that it was arm rather shoulder or accidental/deliberate. Again subjective, although I agree, I thought that it was a penalty, but I don’t assume that my opinion is always right.

Think you might also be forgetting split second decision making will always have a percentage of human error, which VAR is already reducing. That is why Sean Dyche is a VAR disciple.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:57 am

Burtonwoodclaret wrote:I can’t help but wonder if the emotion of the occasion had an influence on the decision. Had it been the other way would ref have consulted VAR ? This is not sour grapes , because I really understand the impact that helicopter crash had on everyone at the club.

VAR is consulted for every goal scored in the PL.

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:58 am

Rileybobs wrote:How is a 35 year old former professional footballer going to begin pursuing a career as a referee?

No idea. What's the answer? We just continue to have **** refs?

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:00 am

Has he not been around the professional game long enough that he'll know more then someone who refs 12 year olds or "footballers" puking on the side of a pitch.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:01 am

WestMidsClaret wrote:No idea. What's the answer? We just continue to have **** refs?

I didn’t say I had the answer but trying to get ex professionals into refereeing isn’t it.

I guess trying to get young people interested and improving coaching would be more realistic.

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:02 am

Rileybobs wrote:I didn’t say I had the answer but trying to get ex professionals into refereeing isn’t it.

I guess trying to get young people interested and improving coaching would be more realistic.

It'd be better then the idiots we have know. They get young people interested but it's young people so they grow out of it.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:04 am

The problem is you’ve still got the same inept referees who make mistakes on a weekly basis on the pitch now doing the same even when watching on a tv screen with the benefit of slow motion replays!

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:05 am

You dont have to get ex players actually reffing but get them to educate people who may want to be refs.

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:08 am

But every decision that ‘one’ disagrees with just confirms how **** referees are because they are often wrong in your opinion, whereas if you were often wrong then referees wouldn’t be as ****, or would they?