39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

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ClaretAndJew
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39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:48 am

Awful news just breaking down there.

https://news.sky.com/story/39-dead-bodi ... x-11842770" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Winstonswhite » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:54 am

That is absolutely horrific.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by NottsClaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:55 am

That's grim.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Pearcey » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:56 am

Horrendous for all involved.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Leisure » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:57 am

Pearcey wrote:Horrendous for all involved.
Probably not for the smuggler(s). Just another day at the office.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Pearcey » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:01 am

Leisure wrote:Probably not for the smuggler(s). Just another day at the office.
Absolutely. Vile creatures.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by bfcjg » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:03 am

Desperate people being manipulated and treated like cargo. Those involved should never be released from prison.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:26 am

Grimmer than grim

******* awful news to wake up to

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by JohnMac » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:56 am

The Driver will be the fall guy for the real criminals making millions.

He deserves to be punished though if complicit in this horrific case.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:58 am

He could have picked up the container at Dublin.

He would not have a clue what was in it.

(He's also possibly an accomplice in this, but its perfectly possible to pick up a sealed shipping container containing anything without having a clue what is in it*.)

*apart from what it says on the manifest obviously**

**also obviously it won't say illegal immigrants

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Lord Beamish » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:01 am

F*ck me! That’s truly horrific!

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:02 am

People going through all this to escape the horrors and conditions of their homeland and there's people who couldn't care less.

There will be people believing it's their fault.

Grim.
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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:06 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:People going through all this to escape the horrors and conditions of their homeland and there's people who couldn't care less.

There will be people believing it's their fault.

Grim.
I'm avoiding the comments under any of the news articles on this for exactly that reason.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by elwaclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:10 am

Surely in this day and age there is kit that allows the border authorities to find heat sources in artics by now, so how does this still happen?

Absolutely awful for all involved, not least the poor individuals who had to discover it. Truly awful.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:12 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:People going through all this to escape the horrors and conditions of their homeland and there's people who couldn't care less.

There will be people believing it's their fault.

Grim.
Shows how truly awful some of their circumstances are to take such risks to come here. Horrendous.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:13 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm avoiding the comments under any of the news articles on this for exactly that reason.
Aye, I dread to see the Daily Mail comment section on this.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:13 am

elwaclaret wrote:Surely in this day and age there is kit that allows the border authorities to find heat sources in artics by now, so how does this still happen?

Absolutely awful for all involved, not least the poor individuals who had to discover it. Truly awful.
Its a container isn't it?

Won't have come into Ireland anyother way if the first time it entered the UK was at Holyhead
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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Hapag Lloyd » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:19 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its a container isn't it?

Won't have come into Ireland anyother way if the first time it entered the UK was at Holyhead
No it’s not a container it’s a fridge trailer originating from Bulgaria.
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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by tiger76 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:21 am

Few details yet but horrible way to die for all the victims.

Regarding how this container slipped through,i'm not totally au fait with border checks,but you'd have thought such a large amount of human activity would have been detected,assuming of course the people where still alive when the vehicle entered into the UK.
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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:21 am

Hapag Lloyd wrote:No it’s not a container it’s a fridge trailer originating from Bulgaria.
Cheers HL

So how has that got from Bulgaria to Ireland without going through the UK?

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by thatdberight » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:28 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Cheers HL

So how has that got from Bulgaria to Ireland without going through the UK?
By sea presumably.
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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Hapag Lloyd » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:28 am

It will have gone from Bulgaria to Southern Ireland to avoid checks and then Dublin to Holyhead for the same reason.
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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:30 am

Hapag Lloyd wrote:It will have gone from Bulgaria to Southern Ireland to avoid checks and then Dublin to Holyhead for the same reason.
They don't have the same checks at Cork/Rosslare as at Holyhead?

EU to EU still isn't it?

*Obviously it is

I know Holyhead and I know Dublin docks, but I've never been to the southern Ireland ones so did wonder if HL knew a bit more than I did.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by elwaclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:37 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:They don't have the same checks at Cork/Rosslare as at Holyhead?

EU to EU still isn't it?
Something that needs seriously looking at if there is a loophole that is being used. I’m sure Bulgaria could do without this heaping the pressure on them right now... but it needs a full investigation.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:37 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Cheers HL

So how has that got from Bulgaria to Ireland without going through the UK?
Interesting, that was the 2nd question in the police press conference.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Hapag Lloyd » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:39 am

They do have checks but they’re not as stringent as it’s not a usual people smuggling route.
Last edited by Hapag Lloyd on Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:43 am

elwaclaret wrote:Something that needs seriously looking at if there is a loophole that is being used. I’m sure Bulgaria could do without this heaping the pressure on them right now... but it needs a full investigation.
You are assuming that there is a loop hole.

Just seen the pic of the trailer and the wagon.

Unmarked fridge unit with a unmarked tractor unit with a white stripe on a red background.

I know a company out of Monaghan with that livery. Wonder if its them?

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:43 am

elwaclaret wrote:Surely in this day and age there is kit that allows the border authorities to find heat sources in artics by now, so how does this still happen?

Absolutely awful for all involved, not least the poor individuals who had to discover it. Truly awful.
A range of possibilities it was missed, could be checking them 1 in 10 or 1 in 5 or another ratio with the volumes arriving, faulty equipment not detecting, cold items in the storage container, or a shift change over & the ratio was exceeded to enable paperwork to be completed before the other shift started. Not a inexhaustible list just the main reasons I'd suspect. Horrific nevertheless.
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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by houseboy » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:46 am

Has there been any indication yet as to their origin? I've never been there but I'm certain that things aren't that bad in Bulgaria to risk this. Bulgaria's only coastline is on the Black Sea which is virtually landlocked so any immigrants would have had to pass through another country, possibly Turkey.

A terrible human tragedy though. One has to consider what these people were running from to understand the risks they take. Obviously the people behind it are criminals and should be treated harshly but if there wasn't a market for it they wouldn't be able to do it. How bad can life be to make a journey like that to escape it?

Unfortunately I don't think the people behind it will ever face justice because we never really here of such things. They will be international gangs, Mafia types, who are behind it and alas only the small guys get caught, some of whom, as has been said, may not even know they are doing it.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by elwaclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:50 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:You are assuming that there is a loop hole.

Just seen the pic of the trailer and the wagon.

Unmarked fridge unit with a unmarked tractor unit with a white stripe on a red background.

I know a company out of Monaghan with that livery. Wonder if its them?
Yes just looked again. Could well be a pick up and drop load with dropping points, so may even be difficult to establish just where they even boarded (presuming they will relay it across the mainland rather than have one driver doing the whole run).

You know better than me on this Lancaster. I’d expect checks at every stopping point, but as I say this is your area not mine.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by wilks_bfc » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:51 am

The lorry arrived at Holyhead on Saturday :shock:
Where has it been in that time?

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Hapag Lloyd » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:52 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:You are assuming that there is a loop hole.

Just seen the pic of the trailer and the wagon.

Unmarked fridge unit with a unmarked tractor unit with a white stripe on a red background.

I know a company out of Monaghan with that livery. Wonder if its them?
This trailer could have arrived in Ireland unaccompanied and the Irish company contracted to do the last leg of the journey to Essex, I suppose we’ll find that out in due course.
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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:58 am

Hapag Lloyd wrote:This trailer could have arrived in Ireland unaccompanied and the Irish company contracted to do the last leg of the journey to Essex, I suppose we’ll find that out in due course.
Yeah

I never did Ire-France, we always went to UK first.

But I know most of the Fridge boys would run accompanied (runners) as the 8 hour crossing time of the Irish Sea counts as a break for drivers hours (not that it tended to matter to the Irish!)

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Blackrod » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:55 pm

Awful news. Need to clamp down on human traffickers. I suspect some take the money and know the people aren’t going to survive the journey.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:14 pm

houseboy wrote:Has there been any indication yet as to their origin? I've never been there but I'm certain that things aren't that bad in Bulgaria to risk this. Bulgaria's only coastline is on the Black Sea which is virtually landlocked so any immigrants would have had to pass through another country, possibly Turkey.

A terrible human tragedy though. One has to consider what these people were running from to understand the risks they take. Obviously the people behind it are criminals and should be treated harshly but if there wasn't a market for it they wouldn't be able to do it. How bad can life be to make a journey like that to escape it?

Unfortunately I don't think the people behind it will ever face justice because we never really here of such things. They will be international gangs, Mafia types, who are behind it and alas only the small guys get caught, some of whom, as has been said, may not even know they are doing it.
Last time I went to Serbia there were literally loads of middles eastern refugees / asylum seekers in a camp they’d made themselves. They will most likely have come from turkey or North Africa and traveled overland.
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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:16 pm

What I don’t understand is how many containers go unchecked. I know that it would be a huge job. But surely each lorry should have its own checks to do. I wouldn’t drive a vehicle not knowing what the contents were that’s for sure. Never mind a lorry.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by dsr » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:22 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:What I don’t understand is how many containers go unchecked. I know that it would be a huge job. But surely each lorry should have its own checks to do. I wouldn’t drive a vehicle not knowing what the contents were that’s for sure. Never mind a lorry.
I doubt they give container keys to lorry drivers so they can check their load, because of security risks. Sounds like this one might have been delayed in transit and they all suffocated. If it's a fridge unit, I wouldn't have thought it had a vent.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by CombatClaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:29 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:What I don’t understand is how many containers go unchecked. I know that it would be a huge job. But surely each lorry should have its own checks to do. I wouldn’t drive a vehicle not knowing what the contents were that’s for sure. Never mind a lorry.
There are up to 170 million shipping containers being driven and sailed around the world. Checking even a small percentage would be a mammoth task and massively impact the times it takes for good to get to where they need to be.

Poor quality checks might even increase the likelihood of smuggling, theft etc as it adds more places where goods could be taken or heaven forbid people added. As far as I'm aware most containers are sealed at the factory, along with documentation of contents, the seal then only being broken once it reaches the customer to they know it's not been tampered with. Customs looking specifically for any broken seals which would imply wrongdoing.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:37 pm

dsr wrote:I doubt they give container keys to lorry drivers so they can check their load, because of security risks. Sounds like this one might have been delayed in transit and they all suffocated. If it's a fridge unit, I wouldn't have thought it had a vent.
That’s really grim. What a horrible way to go.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:25 pm

If the person (or people) we think is responsible for this is living abroad somewhere and we want to prosecute them for breaking our laws, should they be brought here for trial?

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:30 pm

dsr wrote:I doubt they give container keys to lorry drivers so they can check their load, because of security risks. Sounds like this one might have been delayed in transit and they all suffocated. If it's a fridge unit, I wouldn't have thought it had a vent.

An Infrared camera wouldn't have detected them either, which might be why a fridge unit was used.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:34 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:An Infrared camera wouldn't have detected them either, which might be why a fridge unit was used.
They would always use a fridge or a box van because you can't cut your way out of them (v easy with a tautliner) (as well as its harder to detect inside them)

Guaranteed that the ******* who did this hadn't finished with these poor sods yet, so they wanted to make sure the same amount arrived as set out.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Stayingup » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:35 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:He could have picked up the container at Dublin.

He would not have a clue what was in it.

(He's also possibly an accomplice in this, but its perfectly possible to pick up a sealed shipping container containing anything without having a clue what is in it*.)

*apart from what it says on the manifest obviously**

**also obviously it won't say illegal immigrants
Hes been arrested on a murder charge. This is awful. Truly awful.

The lorry is reported to have come from Bulgaria but can't be Bulgarians in it as they can come here anyway.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by FCBurnley » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:14 pm

Stayingup wrote:Hes been arrested on a murder charge. This is awful. Truly awful.

The lorry is reported to have come from Bulgaria but can't be Bulgarians in it as they can come here anyway.
Would assume they are illegal immigrants who had been smuggled into Bulgaria as a point of access to the EU. Guess this will open up a huge can of worms re UK /EU border controls.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Leisure » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:14 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:If the person (or people) we think is responsible for this is living abroad somewhere and we want to prosecute them for breaking our laws, should they be brought here for trial?
Of course (unless they have diplomatic immunity!). But of course you knew this!

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:31 pm

Leisure wrote:Of course (unless they have diplomatic immunity!). But of course you knew this!
Interesting.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:34 pm

Came from Zeebrugge-Ebbsfleet apparently

Makes a lot more sense now

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by FCBurnley » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:10 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Came from Zeebrugge-Ebbsfleet apparently

Makes a lot more sense now
Clearly no checks at either port. Not good for security of UK.

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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Caballo » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:29 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:If the person (or people) we think is responsible for this is living abroad somewhere and we want to prosecute them for breaking our laws, should they be brought here for trial?
Wholly inappropriate thread for a fishing trip.
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Re: 39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:30 pm

FCBurnley wrote:Clearly no checks at either port. Not good for security of UK.
100% not true on the first point.

(but if you mean the trailer wasn't checked then we have to wait to find out)

A Fridge unit running at -5 (which for those of you that are interested would eliminate all smells from the previous cargo - boring trucker fact) would probably (this is a guess btw) wouldn't be a priority for checking. Add a manifest of "chilled goods" and a seal on the back and unless you had proper intelligence I'm not sure why it would be singled out to be checked.

But I'm not an expert of thermal checks at Ports, so I have no idea what effect that would have.

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