39 bodies found in lorry container in Essex

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:34 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:100% not true on the first point.

Obviously I meant the Container/Fridge unit had not been searched otherwise they would have discovered the contents. Clearly I dont know why ?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:37 pm

FCBurnley wrote:Why ?

There are clearly checks at both Zeebrugge and Ebbsfleet.

What sort I've no idea but all Ports have checks.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:47 pm

Interestingly the chair of the human traffickers prevention board, Anthony Steen, has just said on SKY, that he believes this is NOT trafficking, but simply asylum seekers trying to get into the country illegally.

Desperate people nonetheless.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:08 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:If the person (or people) we think is responsible for this is living abroad somewhere and we want to prosecute them for breaking our laws, should they be brought here for trial?

No. Or yes. Whichever the answer is you don't want for your tiresome, "Ta-daa!" moment.

Tread Warily · Post by **Tread Warily** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:23 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:He could have picked up the container at Dublin.

He would not have a clue what was in it.

(He's also possibly an accomplice in this, but its perfectly possible to pick up a sealed shipping container containing anything without having a clue what is in it*.)

*apart from what it says on the manifest obviously**

**also obviously it won't say illegal immigrants

Came directly from Belgium.

morpheus2 · Post by **morpheus2** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:00 pm

OMG RIP desperate people in desperate times, what an absolutely dreadful way to go

morpheus2 · Post by **morpheus2** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:03 pm

OMG OMG please tell me the usual suspect is not trying to turn this thread into another one of his ego massaging exercises??

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:03 pm

It seems odd that the driver is / has been arrested on suspicion of murder when he didn't bring the container over from Belgium and it appears that he was the one who alerted the ambulance service.

basil6345789 · Post by **basil6345789** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:10 pm

FCBurnley wrote:Would assume they are illegal immigrants who had been smuggled into Bulgaria as a point of access to the EU. Guess this will open up a huge can of worms re UK /EU border controls.

Need border controls everywhere. - the EU's open borders is crazy.

thelaughingclaret · Post by **thelaughingclaret** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:11 pm

As said above seems odd to arrest the driver for murder. Sounds as if he knew they were in there and left them locked in there for days to purposely kill them? Why else would they arrest him on the grounds of murder?

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:51 pm

From what I can gather, it's a legitimate cargo that has been boarded by illigals at some point of the journey in Europe.
The driver was supposedly collecting the legitimate cargo for the final part of its journey, presumably to Ireland.
It maybe journalists adding the " arrested for murder" bit.

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:01 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Interesting.

How so?

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:04 pm

Just looked at the wagon drivers Facebook page I will be very surprised if this guy knew what was in the back of that truck.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:21 pm

Nonayforever wrote:It maybe journalists adding the " arrested for murder" bit.

Erm, no.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:42 pm

Apparently the driver has been released without charge.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:23 pm

Caballo wrote:Wholly inappropriate thread for a fishing trip.

In what thread should that question be asked?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:26 pm

thatdberight wrote:No. Or yes. Whichever the answer is you don't want for your tiresome, "Ta-daa!" moment.

It's a perfectly fair question. There are some people we don't let into this country to face trial if we consider their crimes serious enough and i'm wondering if this is one of them.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:35 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's a perfectly fair question. There are some people we don't let into this country to face trial if we consider their crimes serious enough and i'm wondering if this is one of them.

Right you are, then. Well done, you.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:56 pm

thatdberight wrote:Right you are, then. Well done, you.

What do you think? Should be bring foreigners here for trial if we think they're to blame?

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:01 pm

I thought it was just our citizens we keep out rather than put them on trial eg Shamina Begum and a few others in Syria
But we do have a slightly mad system that could make us keep foreign criminals convicted and jailed here due to their inhuman rights preventing deportation.
The **** who are behind today's atrocities are not worthy of the appellation "human", but here they will have rights-I am just against them living here after they have finished their time in prison.

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:49 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:They don't have the same checks at Cork/Rosslare as at Holyhead?

EU to EU still isn't it?

*Obviously it is

I know Holyhead and I know Dublin docks, but I've never been to the southern Ireland ones so did wonder if HL knew a bit more than I did.

All trailers coming from the continent if sealed are opened in rosslare and re sealed by the gardai, Cork everything goes through a x ray scanner, so I would say the checks in Dublin are less efficient, you could send a fridge on a container ship from Rotterdam I believe as that's where I have shipped curtainsided trailers from Dublin before. Who ever did this new the shipping and security checks.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:04 am

It's caused quite a stir from the Lorry drivers has the public reaction to the driver getting arrested. One was saying if the driver checks the container and breaks the seal it won't be accepted 99% of the time by the customer.

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:34 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:What do you think? Should be bring foreigners here for trial if we think they're to blame?

We don't you do your usual practice and just start another thread on that subject!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:40 am

Leisure wrote:We don't you do your usual practice and just start another thread on that subject!

Because it's on topic in this thread. You're trying to drag it off topic by making it about me, as is your usual practice.

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:48 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Because it's on topic in this thread. You're trying to drag it off topic by making it about me, as is your usual practice.

Well that's what it's usually about, you, isn't it!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:56 am

Leisure wrote:Well that's what it's usually about, you, isn't it!

No. It's usually made about me by people like you the exact same way you are making it about me now.

Mansfield-Claret · Post by **Mansfield-Claret** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:41 am

wilks_bfc wrote:The lorry arrived at Holyhead on Saturday
Where has it been in that time?

the tractor unit came from ireland

Mo picked the trailer up from purfleet docks where the trailer had come over unaccompanied (spelling) from zeebrugge Mo had only had the trailer for 30/40minutes, some delivery notes are left in the back of trailers when they come over

Mansfield-Claret · Post by **Mansfield-Claret** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:44 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:It's caused quite a stir from the Lorry drivers has the public reaction to the driver getting arrested. One was saying if the driver checks the container and breaks the seal it won't be accepted 99% of the time by the customer.

unless you have it in writing to break the seal, you do not break it, as it will get refused delivery

Mansfield-Claret · Post by **Mansfield-Claret** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:45 am

CnBtruntru wrote:All trailers coming from the continent if sealed are opened in rosslare and re sealed by the gardai, Cork everything goes through a x ray scanner, so I would say the checks in Dublin are less efficient, you could send a fridge on a container ship from Rotterdam I believe as that's where I have shipped curtainsided trailers from Dublin before. Who ever did this new the shipping and security checks.

also the checks at zeebrugge arent that good, someone know what they was doing

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:47 am

All 39 dead are Chinese.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:48 am

The victims have been identified as Chinese nationals.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:51 am

martin_p wrote:All 39 dead are Chinese.

I wonder if they were Uighurs fleeing China's... I don't know what to call it. 'Holocaust' isn't quite accurate yet. 'Human right's abuses' seems like downplaying it.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:02 am

Mansfield-Claret wrote:the tractor unit came from ireland

Mo picked the trailer up from purfleet docks where the trailer had come over unaccompanied (spelling) from zeebrugge Mo had only had the trailer for 30/40minutes, some delivery notes are left in the back of trailers when they come over

Those details were released after I'd posted that.
From what has come out since then it does appear that the poor driver has been made a "patsy" in this

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:08 pm

There's something very wrong about posting the mugshot across national television of the person arrested, before even a charge has been made.

mapinchina · Post by **mapinchina** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:05 pm

I do not understand how such a dreadful incident can happen. When you consider the security checks at airports.
When I returned to China, in September, my laptop was confiscated because it would not turn on (the battery was expired) I had to display all my hand luggage contents on a table at security checks in Abu Dhabi, Hong Kong and Wuxi plus everything, including me, was scanned at each airport.
I am sure that there are more people traveling around the world than there are vans/trucks/containers etc.
I am truly mystified....it seems that anyone could take anything into England.....dead people....what else, a nuclear bomb ?

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:10 pm

Why do they ALL want to come here? My Chinese colleague says free healthcare. Answer privatize the NHS. Which could happen hopefully. Or charge a% age for the service as in France and elsewhere on the continent.
My French associate says because we are the land of milk and honey and they know it. In France and particularly in Spain they are not so generous.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:16 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:Apparently the driver has been released without charge.

Very much suspected this would be the case. I found it irresponsible for the papers to not go for "its understood the driver is being questioned to determine his role in the incident" at most

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:30 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:Very much suspected this would be the case. I found it irresponsible for the papers to not go for "its understood the driver is being questioned to determine his role in the incident" at most

I may have unfortunately been premature in that comment

It was only what I saw on some discussions last night, but reading the BBC reports it there hasn’t been suggestion that is the case

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:29 pm

The big question is when did the victims die ? Was this a case of attempted illegal immigration or was this transportation of corpses ? The refrigerated trailer could suggest that the victims were already dead before they were transported. Sadly illegal body parts is a big and vile business. Whatever the reason behind the deaths it is a hideous crime. RIP

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:32 pm

Stayingup wrote:Why do they ALL want to come here? My Chinese colleague says free healthcare. Answer privatize the NHS. Which could happen hopefully. Or charge a% age for the service as in France and elsewhere on the continent.
My French associate says because we are the land of milk and honey and they know it. In France and particularly in Spain they are not so generous.

If that's not a wind-up then it should be

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:40 pm

I know chinese illegal immigrants are the caretakers of choice for illegal cannabis farms. It wouldnt surprise me if that was the intended purpose for these poor sods

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:50 pm

Granted another 24 hours to question the driver.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:28 pm

There are question marks being raised by other lorry drivers as to why the trailer was opened by the driver where it was, which wasn't on a road normally chosen to get from Purfleet to Holyhead. Why was it not opened either at the port when it was collected, somewhere actually en-route or at it's destination?

I suspect that may be why he is being held for further questioning.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:19 pm

It is odd. I've seen a few papers today and not one of them mentions why and how the victims were actually discovered and by whom. The i-paper talks of "numerous" phone calls being made to the police.
Something similar happened a year or so ago in Burton involving the death of a couple of stowaways in a container. The smell nearby was unbearable so the police were called. This latest atrocity seems very strange as well as horrific.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:28 pm

bfcmik wrote:...wasn't on a road normally chosen to get from Purfleet to Holyhead...

Do you know it was going to Holyhead?

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:40 pm

thatdberight wrote:Do you know it was going to Holyhead?

I didn’t think it was, but there are more questions than answers at the moment.

What did the driver think he was collecting? Why does no one seem to know how the container got to Zeebrugge? At what stage did the 39 people board the container?

All questions in a complicated case, I'm sure.

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:51 pm

With the emergence of more information it still leaves an odd story for the driver.
By a lot of separate accounts he is a genuinely good guy who was the one to inform the authorities. On the other hand, he incriminates himself by taking the container and examining it's contents away from the terminal.
The one quick link appears to be that of a gang of Irish smugglers involved with ciggies & tabacco. Humans apparently being just another commodity for them.

Pimlico_Claret · Post by **Pimlico_Claret** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:32 pm

Nonayforever wrote:With the emergence of more information it still leaves an odd story for the driver.
By a lot of separate accounts he is a genuinely good guy who was the one to inform the authorities. On the other hand, he incriminates himself by taking the container and examining it's contents away from the terminal.
The one quick link appears to be that of a gang of Irish smugglers involved with ciggies & tabacco. Humans apparently being just another commodity for them.

Channel 4 news report tonight was strange, looked very much like they were implicating Irish paramilitary gangs, without saying so, suggesting the police were being slow with the investigation, and they had been threatened.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:19 pm

FCBurnley wrote:Would assume they are illegal immigrants who had been smuggled into Bulgaria as a point of access to the EU. Guess this will open up a huge can of worms re UK /EU border controls.

EU border controls? What are they? Its open borders
Actually they are not encouraged to stop illegals because they know where they are headed for and its not mainland Europe

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:08 pm

Stayingup wrote:EU border controls? What are they? Its open borders
Actually they are not encouraged to stop illegals because they know where they are headed for and its not mainland Europe

Do you think anyone believes you?