Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Just watched the video and read an article with Jamie Redknapo saying he understood why Hudson-Odoi complained that he was pushed.
I don't need to explain.
Cheating is cheating and cannot be defended or encouraged.
I don't need to explain.
Cheating is cheating and cannot be defended or encouraged.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I don't think there was any dispute contact on the back of Hudson-Odoi, but it wasn't enough to warrant the fall that be took. He was blatantly anticipating contact on his legs and trying to overact in order to get a decision. That is cheating, end of story.
If the contact he received resulted in a fall, naturally, then it could well of been a penalty.
If the contact he received resulted in a fall, naturally, then it could well of been a penalty.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I agree that when a push or clip, makes it impossible to retain balance, or prevents onward control, it is a penalty.
'Contact' in a contact sport, is not in any way a penalty.
'Contact' in a contact sport, is not in any way a penalty.
Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Some absolutely shocking decisions by VAR this weekend.
The final decisions need to be made by the ref who should check the screen at the ground where the decisions are in doubt.
Arsenal's cancelled winner was a scandal-but funny as it was Arsenal
The final decisions need to be made by the ref who should check the screen at the ground where the decisions are in doubt.
Arsenal's cancelled winner was a scandal-but funny as it was Arsenal
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Poor old Arsenal always Bleating.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I must admit I am quickly losing patience with VAR. It is turning into what I always feared, bias backed by cameras. If it does not improve significantly I think my love affair with football is coming to an end. It is just too removed from the game I grew up with. We used to laugh at American sport... we now have a version of our own.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Wait a minute.
Firstly, Hudson-Odoi WAS pushed in the back. That is, by the Laws of the game, a penalty. He doesn't have to fall over etc., the push is enough.
That begs three questions:
1. Why did Lowton push him? Obviously to try and impede him in some way to prevent him scoring. Ask Lowton why he took such a risk. The answer is probably that he thought there was a good chance he'd get away with it, which he of course did.
2. Why did Hudson-Odoi go down? I agree that it was unlikely that push made him fall over. It is of course because he felt he could get a penalty.
3. Why didn't the ref give the penalty? Well he did but the consensus seems to be that he gave it for a trip. VAR correctly said there wasn't a trip. I don't know if that's true. He may have given it for the push. Does anyone know?
The main issue is, in this case, is that referees tend not to give fouls unless a player is obviously impeded. We see this all the time. His excuse is that he can play an advantage but often he does not return to the scene of the crime if the advantage is not realised. Basically he is dithering. Does that push really warrant a penalty? If you've refereed a match you'll know the feeling. This is of course why players go down when there's only a slight touch, so the ref has to make a decision.
I'm sure we all know this.
My argument is that the real question is 'why did Lowton push him in the first place?'. He's the one who should be questioned and held to account.
Firstly, Hudson-Odoi WAS pushed in the back. That is, by the Laws of the game, a penalty. He doesn't have to fall over etc., the push is enough.
That begs three questions:
1. Why did Lowton push him? Obviously to try and impede him in some way to prevent him scoring. Ask Lowton why he took such a risk. The answer is probably that he thought there was a good chance he'd get away with it, which he of course did.
2. Why did Hudson-Odoi go down? I agree that it was unlikely that push made him fall over. It is of course because he felt he could get a penalty.
3. Why didn't the ref give the penalty? Well he did but the consensus seems to be that he gave it for a trip. VAR correctly said there wasn't a trip. I don't know if that's true. He may have given it for the push. Does anyone know?
The main issue is, in this case, is that referees tend not to give fouls unless a player is obviously impeded. We see this all the time. His excuse is that he can play an advantage but often he does not return to the scene of the crime if the advantage is not realised. Basically he is dithering. Does that push really warrant a penalty? If you've refereed a match you'll know the feeling. This is of course why players go down when there's only a slight touch, so the ref has to make a decision.
I'm sure we all know this.
My argument is that the real question is 'why did Lowton push him in the first place?'. He's the one who should be questioned and held to account.
Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Lowton's speed was greater than H-O, so caught him as he was preparing to fall over a foot that wasn't there.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Don’t understand why pundits and Chelsea fans have ignored this obvious point. Isn’t comparative velocity a basic law of physics?IanMcL wrote:Lowton's speed was greater than H-O, so caught him as he was preparing to fall over a foot that wasn't there.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I hate cheating and diving especially.
But, in this case Hudson Odoi was moving at pace reacted in a self protective way to Tarks stuck out leg, by trying to check his forward momentum, Tarks leg was then pulled away but the slight push from Lowton caused forward momentum on his upper body and that would cause most people to fall, however these super athletes let themselves fall.
50/50 if it was a penalty as the leg was removed and the push slight, but In don't think it was a dive.
The Refs decision was a penalty and it wasn't clear and obvious whether Lowtons contact was enough considering HO's reaction to Taks leg, so it should have stood as a pen by VAR rules, just as as Wood's equaliser at Leicester should have stood as 10 neutrals would be split on whether it was a foul or not, not clear and obvious so refs decision should stand.
I think Hudson Odoi would have chucked his left leg to the left at Tarks leg if he was intending to Dive.
The Mane one yesterday is very hard to judge, just as easy to say his leg fouls the defender as he's kicking the ball, but just like Wolves penalty against us these players are so crafty these days, it's become an art form.
But, in this case Hudson Odoi was moving at pace reacted in a self protective way to Tarks stuck out leg, by trying to check his forward momentum, Tarks leg was then pulled away but the slight push from Lowton caused forward momentum on his upper body and that would cause most people to fall, however these super athletes let themselves fall.
50/50 if it was a penalty as the leg was removed and the push slight, but In don't think it was a dive.
The Refs decision was a penalty and it wasn't clear and obvious whether Lowtons contact was enough considering HO's reaction to Taks leg, so it should have stood as a pen by VAR rules, just as as Wood's equaliser at Leicester should have stood as 10 neutrals would be split on whether it was a foul or not, not clear and obvious so refs decision should stand.
I think Hudson Odoi would have chucked his left leg to the left at Tarks leg if he was intending to Dive.
The Mane one yesterday is very hard to judge, just as easy to say his leg fouls the defender as he's kicking the ball, but just like Wolves penalty against us these players are so crafty these days, it's become an art form.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
The whole incident lasted a few seconds and, at the time, I thought, looks nailed on. But, that's what H-O wanted everyone to think, he's good at falling over for nothing. (Compare Ashley Barnes who isn't good at it) The contact with Lowton was next to nothing and certainly not a penalty.
The real question for me is WHY would anyone, at 4-0 up, risk so much in trying to con the Ref? Is it instinctive? Are these players "coached" to cheat?
The real question for me is WHY would anyone, at 4-0 up, risk so much in trying to con the Ref? Is it instinctive? Are these players "coached" to cheat?
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
They let themselves fall to contact that would not be sufficient to put them down if they had a desire to stay on their feet.RalphCoatesComb wrote:The whole incident lasted a few seconds and, at the time, I thought, looks nailed on. But, that's what H-O wanted everyone to think, he's good at falling over for nothing. (Compare Ashley Barnes who isn't good at it) The contact with Lowton was next to nothing and certainly not a penalty.
The real question for me is WHY would anyone, at 4-0 up, risk so much in trying to con the Ref? Is it instinctive? Are these players "coached" to cheat?
But Motd punditshave been saying for a couple of years now "There was contact so he had the right to go down" or even " He felt a touch so he had the right to go down" They just made that rule up and kept repeating it until it's repeated by others.
Soon f you brush against someone in an City pub they may suddenly just fling themselves to the floor, and CCTv will show there was contact.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
BleedingClaret wrote:Soon if you brush against someone in an City pub they may suddenly just fling themselves to the floor, and CCTv will show there was contact.
And, they'll be coming to you for another pint
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I doubt H-O even noticed the slight touch from Lowton. He was anticipating contact from Tarks and dived. Reacting to contact is definitely encouraged even if it's not explicitly coached. And it's no wonder if there are people that really think that that constitutes a foul.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I'm from the Sean Dyche camp.Sproggy wrote:And it's no wonder if there are people that really think that that constitutes a foul.
Want to see a foul?
"Thwack!"
Take that!
Now, that's a foul
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
My thoughts entirely. I am beginning to hate the phrase 'there was contact so he was entitled to go down'. No he bloody wasn't if he could have stayed on his feet. When did football become a contactless sport, at the same time as credit cards? Some players go down if they are breathed on too hard by another player, usually clutching their face.IanMcL wrote:I agree that when a push or clip, makes it impossible to retain balance, or prevents onward control, it is a penalty.
'Contact' in a contact sport, is not in any way a penalty.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I think they are "coached to cheat". There was another incident a bit after the "non-push" penalty debacle, when HO had got into the box and was tackled. His little world seemed to then go into slow-mo at that point. He was about to dive again, but his brain reminded him of the yellow card. He actions were: He decided it was worth a dive according to the "Divers Manual of Acting", then paused, then remembered the "yellow", then stayed on his feet. It would have been very funny if he had dived again and got sent off!RalphCoatesComb wrote:The whole incident lasted a few seconds and, at the time, I thought, looks nailed on. But, that's what H-O wanted everyone to think, he's good at falling over for nothing. (Compare Ashley Barnes who isn't good at it) The contact with Lowton was next to nothing and certainly not a penalty.
The real question for me is WHY would anyone, at 4-0 up, risk so much in trying to con the Ref? Is it instinctive? Are these players "coached" to cheat?
With regard to slight contact, it could easily be argued that at the Leicester game Vardy touched Ben Mee in his back before heading his goal the week before. Ben could have "cheated" and gone sprawling and VAR may very well have disallowed the goal. Also VAR cannot tell the difference between touching contact and deliberate pushing contact. Lowton touches HO but there is no way of telling if it was a push.
We are going to get defenders and strikers studying VAR replays and working out how best to get penalties, or goals disallowed. VAR out for me.
Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
But plenty of players would rather win a penalty than try to score.Hipper wrote:Wait a minute.
Firstly, Hudson-Odoi WAS pushed in the back. That is, by the Laws of the game, a penalty. He doesn't have to fall over etc., the push is enough.
That begs three questions:
1. Why did Lowton push him? Obviously to try and impede him in some way to prevent him scoring. Ask Lowton why he took such a risk. The answer is probably that he thought there was a good chance he'd get away with it, which he of course did.
2. Why did Hudson-Odoi go down? I agree that it was unlikely that push made him fall over. It is of course because he felt he could get a penalty.
3. Why didn't the ref give the penalty? Well he did but the consensus seems to be that he gave it for a trip. VAR correctly said there wasn't a trip. I don't know if that's true. He may have given it for the push. Does anyone know?
The main issue is, in this case, is that referees tend not to give fouls unless a player is obviously impeded. We see this all the time. His excuse is that he can play an advantage but often he does not return to the scene of the crime if the advantage is not realised. Basically he is dithering. Does that push really warrant a penalty? If you've refereed a match you'll know the feeling. This is of course why players go down when there's only a slight touch, so the ref has to make a decision.
I'm sure we all know this.
My argument is that the real question is 'why did Lowton push him in the first place?'. He's the one who should be questioned and held to account.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I think what VAR will achieve in the fullness of time is driving proper football fans away from the game because among other things it will expose the true level of cheating by players (usually from the 'bigger' clubs). Not only will they tire of the stoppages and the reversals of decision by refs but the televised games or highlights will prove that players are now cheating (for that is what it is no matter what they call it on TV) to a level never experienced before.
VAR would be a good thing if it challenged nothing more than if the ball did or did not cross the line or maybe offsides, but the way it is being used to overturn decisions regarding fouls, many of which are open to interpretation anyway, is going to go only one way and that is to ruin the sport as a spectacle. There has always been human error in the game and that was what we all loved secretly I think. Now human error is being supported with technology and that cannot be a good way to go.
VAR would be a good thing if it challenged nothing more than if the ball did or did not cross the line or maybe offsides, but the way it is being used to overturn decisions regarding fouls, many of which are open to interpretation anyway, is going to go only one way and that is to ruin the sport as a spectacle. There has always been human error in the game and that was what we all loved secretly I think. Now human error is being supported with technology and that cannot be a good way to go.
Last edited by houseboy on Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
First thing is, if the laws are to be interpreted that every time a player's hand touches the back of another player, then that is a push and a free kick penalty should be given - that means there will be a lot of penalties. When there are twenty players in the penalty area, it's very likely that two of them will touch.Hipper wrote:Wait a minute.
Firstly, Hudson-Odoi WAS pushed in the back. That is, by the Laws of the game, a penalty. He doesn't have to fall over etc., the push is enough.
...
The main issue is, in this case, is that referees tend not to give fouls unless a player is obviously impeded. We see this all the time. His excuse is that he can play an advantage but often he does not return to the scene of the crime if the advantage is not realised. Basically he is dithering. Does that push really warrant a penalty? If you've refereed a match you'll know the feeling. This is of course why players go down when there's only a slight touch, so the ref has to make a decision.
I'm sure we all know this.
My argument is that the real question is 'why did Lowton push him in the first place?'. He's the one who should be questioned and held to account.
Alternatively, if you're saying that a touch in the back should be a foul just because the player fell over, you're encouraging diving.
And as for the idea that refs only give fouls when a player is obviously impeded - that's simply not true. What they do is give fouls when the player finishes up on the floor. Watch out next time two players are battling for the ball, and obviously there will be contact because they both want to be in the same space. If both players play like men used to play, trying to win out by strength, is there a free kick? No. If one of them folds up like a pack of cards, is it a free kick? Yes.
A slight touch is a slight touch. Whether it is a penalty or not does not depend on the reaction of the man who was touched.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Incidentally, Hudson-Odoi was far from the worst offender. Harry Kane - or cheating, diving Harry Kane as he could be called - screaming in pain and holding his face because he was pushed in the chest. He is an embarrassment to himself.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
H-O is a cheat and Lampard is happy to condone that. Still, "Lamps" is England's bright new hope so that's fine....
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Same old Cockneys always cheating
Abraham and H-O are totally overrated
England internationals ? Only in Southgate and Lumphards head both utter dross
One footed one trick show ponys
Abraham and H-O are totally overrated
England internationals ? Only in Southgate and Lumphards head both utter dross
One footed one trick show ponys
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I think the question about cheating is now not going to be addressed by anyone in authority. It is clearly accepted by MotD pundits and others. It is clearly encouraged by managers (mostly). The bigger clubs benefit from it massively and have too much power and influence with regard to how the laws of the game are interpreted. No matter how much we on here (or any other site because I know other fans are getting cheesed off with it as well) complain about the level of cheating we are not going to be listened to because the 'fan' doesn't matter any more. All that seems to matter now is getting the points at any cost so that players can earn their win bonuses (like they actually need them) and clubs getting points on the board to get into the Champions League or avoid dropping out of the Gooses Golden Egg that is the PL. Unfortunately we have also now got a generation of fans who have come to accept (maybe because they have never known anything else, which is not their fault) the 'he was touched so...' argument, in fact I work with some younger fans who do believe just that.
I love football but the way it is going if I am still watching it in 5 years either we will have rid the game of cheats or I will have become complicit (and my hatred of cheats doesn't really allow for that happening).
I love football but the way it is going if I am still watching it in 5 years either we will have rid the game of cheats or I will have become complicit (and my hatred of cheats doesn't really allow for that happening).
Last edited by houseboy on Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
houseboy » ...........
"Some players go down if they are breathed on too hard by another player, usually clutching their face."
J.Rod didn't at Brighton.
"Some players go down if they are breathed on too hard by another player, usually clutching their face."
J.Rod didn't at Brighton.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
H-O was already going down BEFORE Lowton touched his back. He had anticipated Tarky's foot being there and hurled himself forward with both feet pointing backwards. So he was diving and Lowton's touch made no difference.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
My criticism goes out to all cheats - even ours. Barnes is a cheat - just not a very good one.Bullabill wrote:houseboy » ...........
"Some players go down if they are breathed on too hard by another player, usually clutching their face."
J.Rod didn't at Brighton.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
If you make a meal of it then you are trying to deceive the officials penalty or not. VAR rightly cracked down on this decision and will cut down players diving in the long term when they see their amateur dramatics will be scrutinised like diving in the Olympics.
The typical move is to leave your leg behind, yet its so obvious for the VAR refs to see now.
Brilliant.
The typical move is to leave your leg behind, yet its so obvious for the VAR refs to see now.
Brilliant.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
All you have to do is look at how he went over. He acted like he'd been gunned down.
The way he went down just did not match any push or any other interaction with a player. In my view, even if it was a penalty initially (I don't think it was, but this is to show my point), then it should be taken away due to the overreaction. So someone could be fouled, yet because they are making a meal of it, actually have the foul cancelled. Now, that's one for the dinner table
I don't like cheats in football, especially when they're bloody 4-0 up at the time! Pathetic.
The way he went down just did not match any push or any other interaction with a player. In my view, even if it was a penalty initially (I don't think it was, but this is to show my point), then it should be taken away due to the overreaction. So someone could be fouled, yet because they are making a meal of it, actually have the foul cancelled. Now, that's one for the dinner table
I don't like cheats in football, especially when they're bloody 4-0 up at the time! Pathetic.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
If you had the ball and a half yard on the last defender, and sprinted into the box, then decided to suddenly stop still where you were, forcing the defender to run into you, would that be a penalty?
Odoi stopped suddenly, how could Lowton have avoided the 'push'?
Odoi stopped suddenly, how could Lowton have avoided the 'push'?
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Go and watch lower league footy where people who are nowhere near as good technically play for the love and pleasure of the game. Go and stand on a terrace and have a pint or a pie. Get close to the action and stand behind the nets.elwaclaret wrote:I must admit I am quickly losing patience with VAR. It is turning into what I always feared, bias backed by cameras. If it does not improve significantly I think my love affair with football is coming to an end. It is just too removed from the game I grew up with. We used to laugh at American sport... we now have a version of our own.
Football is only dying at top top level. There is so much football lower down the leagues that should be supported even Conference North level. Get yaself to Accy who play with passion and grit. It's far more enjoyable than the joke of the Prem League.
VAR has just opened a can of worms and it'll only get worse.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Yeah, give me Accy Stanley over Burnley any day....said nobody, ever.diamondpocket wrote:Go and watch lower league footy where people who are nowhere near as good technically play for the love and pleasure of the game. Go and stand on a terrace and have a pint or a pie. Get close to the action and stand behind the nets.
Football is only dying at top top level. There is so much football lower down the leagues that should be supported even Conference North level. Get yaself to Accy who play with passion and grit. It's far more enjoyable than the joke of the Prem League.
VAR has just opened a can of worms and it'll only get worse.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Dyche always talks about this: it's gamesmanship according to him.houseboy wrote:My thoughts entirely. I am beginning to hate the phrase 'there was contact so he was entitled to go down'. No he bloody wasn't if he could have stayed on his feet. When did football become a contactless sport, at the same time as credit cards? Some players go down if they are breathed on too hard by another player, usually clutching their face.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
The original post talked about his love affair with Football not Burnley. If you wanna get back to the way football then go down to the lower leagues where people play for the love and the aspiration to be better and play at a higher level. Prem League, top level sport isn't football anymore, it's just business whether off it, and in some degree, even on it. They are professionals who work, it's their job and it's just business in the end.Rileybobs wrote:Yeah, give me Accy Stanley over Burnley any day....said nobody, ever.
Go and watch Junior footy and lower league footy where the standard is certainly poor but the entertainment and passion shine through.
Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Its the ridiculous time that some of these decisions are taking that's making the game become farcical. I admit I've never wanted var from day one but the way it's going is getting quite ridiculous. Moss should (maybe he has) have been disciplined for what happened at Leicester when he told Dyche before the game he would check the monitor if there were any controversial incidents.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I'm pretty certain that a couple of thousand Stanley supporters would disagree with this post entirely mate. That's the problem with making definitive statements, you almost always wind up being proved wrong. Football alas doesn't start or end either with your own team or with the PL.Rileybobs wrote:Yeah, give me Accy Stanley over Burnley any day....said nobody, ever.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
The difference with American football, rugby league or even cricket, is that ultimately they get 99% of the decisions right through video replay. Only football strike that, English football, could get all that technology and still get the decisions wrong. It wouldnt be so bad if they were even close or difficult, but most of them aren't. Then the refs try and justify them by defending the indefensible, or even rewriting the rules.elwaclaret wrote:I must admit I am quickly losing patience with VAR. It is turning into what I always feared, bias backed by cameras. If it does not improve significantly I think my love affair with football is coming to an end. It is just too removed from the game I grew up with. We used to laugh at American sport... we now have a version of our own.
VAR is still the right way to go, it just needs reviews taking out of referees hands. Give it to ex pros and fans,who actually understand that it is a contact sport, who have only one remit to het the calls right.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I do go there occasionally mate and it's a great afternoon/evening. Proper fans who aren't there chasing trophies and who go for the love of the game/their club. There are thousands like them at Exeter, Grimsby, Shrewsbury and the like. Fans who love their club. And for those with short memories we were for several years just like them.diamondpocket wrote:Go and watch lower league footy where people who are nowhere near as good technically play for the love and pleasure of the game. Go and stand on a terrace and have a pint or a pie. Get close to the action and stand behind the nets.
Football is only dying at top top level. There is so much football lower down the leagues that should be supported even Conference North level. Get yaself to Accy who play with passion and grit. It's far more enjoyable than the joke of the Prem League.
VAR has just opened a can of worms and it'll only get worse.
I like Burnley being in the top division of this country but I hate the PL with a passion. If we were relegated it would be sad but I wouldn't miss the obsession with the 'big six', the arrogance of their supporters (and some others to be fair), the constantly being told what a great league it is and that many think we shouldn't be in it because we aren't 'big' enough. Perhaps the so-called big six should clear off to a European league and let us start again with a top division that would be at least a little fairer.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
What makes a 'proper' fan? There is no such definition. It doesn't exist. Everybody is singular and they go to watch a game due to what they enjoy. If you split it up you'd get 100 different reasons why people go to watch a game.houseboy wrote:I do go there occasionally mate and it's a great afternoon/evening. Proper fans who aren't there chasing trophies and who go for the love of the game/their club. There are thousands like them at Exeter, Grimsby, Shrewsbury and the like. Fans who love their club. And for those with short memories we were for several years just like them.
I like Burnley being in the top division of this country but I hate the PL with a passion. If we were relegated it would be sad but I wouldn't miss the obsession with the 'big six', the arrogance of their supporters (and some others to be fair), the constantly being told what a great league it is and that many think we shouldn't be in it because we aren't 'big' enough. Perhaps the so-called big six should clear off to a European league and let us start again with a top division that would be at least a little fairer.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I've seen more proper Fannys at football than Fans tbh!
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Don't quite understand the nit-picking there Frank. You know what I mean without the need to ask the question. The term 'proper fan' is a generalisation, everyone knows that, it doesn't need stating, but is often taken to mean fans who watch the game for the love of the sport as opposed to watching a team of choice based on their chances of winning trophies. That is the stance I was taking, nothing more. Is a trophy-hunter 'fan' watching the game for the love of the sport or simply wanting to be successful by association? I suspect the latter but then I could be wrong.FactualFrank wrote:What makes a 'proper' fan? There is no such definition. It doesn't exist. Everybody is singular and they go to watch a game due to what they enjoy. If you split it up you'd get 100 different reasons why people go to watch a game.
Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I think Evans of Aston Villa could tell us how he learnt to fall down like that.RalphCoatesComb wrote:Are these players "coached" to cheat?
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I think it was Tony Laughlan that he spoke to and he told him he would us the screen if necessary. For the disallowed goal he hadn’t seen it and accepted what Andy Madley told him. We know refs have been advised not to use them so it would have been a big shock had he done so.beddie wrote:Moss should (maybe he has) have been disciplined for what happened at Leicester when he told Dyche before the game he would check the monitor if there were any controversial incidents.
That decision was similar to the one in which Michael Keane gave away a penalty at Brighton. Gallagher clearly didn’t agree with it this morning but said that’s what they are told to do now with that incident.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
A suggestion. Can we not have a "gofer" who brings on an iPad that is rigged up to look at the replays so the on field officials can join in with VAR reviewers, even one behind each goal if thought necessary. The cost would be minimal surely. The on field ref then can have full say in any decision with minimum disruption.ClaretTony wrote:I think it was Tony Laughlan that he spoke to and he told him he would us the screen if necessary. For the disallowed goal he hadn’t seen it and accepted what Andy Madley told him. We know refs have been advised not to use them so it would have been a big shock had he done so.
That decision was similar to the one in which Michael Keane gave away a penalty at Brighton. Gallagher clearly didn’t agree with it this morning but said that’s what they are told to do now with that incident.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Or, a Teletransporter to whisk away Fatty Moss to Stockley ParkPetersa wrote:Can we not have a "gofer" who brings on an iPad that is rigged up to look at the replays so the on field officials can join in with VAR reviewers
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
I was all in favour of using technology to help the refs get the decisions right, however with some of the var decisions in the last few weeks it just seems to be a way of protecting the refs from being more sh!t than normal. It's a cock up in the PL.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
How would that be any quicker than the referee going to the side of the pitch to view the monitor?Petersa wrote:A suggestion. Can we not have a "gofer" who brings on an iPad that is rigged up to look at the replays so the on field officials can join in with VAR reviewers, even one behind each goal if thought necessary. The cost would be minimal surely. The on field ref then can have full say in any decision with minimum disruption.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
It was said tongue in cheek. But I don’t think you’ll find many Burnley fans who would rather be watching us play in League One and I don’t think you’ll find many Stanley fans who wouldn’t rather be watching their side in the Premier League.houseboy wrote:I'm pretty certain that a couple of thousand Stanley supporters would disagree with this post entirely mate. That's the problem with making definitive statements, you almost always wind up being proved wrong. Football alas doesn't start or end either with your own team or with the PL.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
It seems to me that a lot of posters don't know the difference between a touch and a push. One is a penalty, the other one isn't.
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Re: Hudson-Odoi - what's wrong with the country
Please if someone could quote me the law that says a gentle push is OK, but a more forceful push isn't. Where is the line drawn?