Defence options

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claretspice
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Re: Defence options

Post by claretspice » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:43 am

superdimitri wrote:Yeah, the same Vardy that scored an amazing 3 headers total last year, 3 the year before that and 1 the year before that and only 2 out of his 24 league winning goals the season before that were from headers.

I guess Ben Mee has gifted him the chance to get 4 this year. I think you need to look at things again if you think Vardy is one of the "better" players in the air.

Point is, he isn't exactly a weapon the air compared to some players we face in this league. if you can't see that I don't know what you can see. Mee is small but Vardy isn't even taller than him either..

If a cross is whipped in as good as the one was against us then its a dual between striker and defender, nothing more than that. Mee lost when he should have won. He was in a position to do so, just didn't jump for some reason.
But if the attacker is coming from deeper and has the run on the defender, it's an unequal duel.

In this instance, it looked as though the cross would come in from in front of Mee, which allows him to come onto the ball and compete equally with Vardy. The minute Lowton allowed him to the by-line, Mee's backpeddling, whilst Vardy still has the benefit of his run up. All of which is why a player getting to the by-line at pace and crossing a ball is generally regarded as being more dangerous than a ball flighted in from deeper.

It seems to me we're now conceding more crosses from positions closer to the byline than we used to, with the result that our defenders are on the back foot more when the ball comes in. Partly, that's the full backs, but its also reflective of the players playing in wide positions (the covering wide player for both the goals at Leicester was McNeil, on different sides). This isn't relevant to the defeat to Chelsea but it has been a trend previously.
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superdimitri
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Re: Defence options

Post by superdimitri » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:06 pm

claretspice wrote:But if the attacker is coming from deeper and has the run on the defender, it's an unequal duel.

In this instance, it looked as though the cross would come in from in front of Mee, which allows him to come onto the ball and compete equally with Vardy. The minute Lowton allowed him to the by-line, Mee's backpeddling, whilst Vardy still has the benefit of his run up. All of which is why a player getting to the by-line at pace and crossing a ball is generally regarded as being more dangerous than a ball flighted in from deeper.

It seems to me we're now conceding more crosses from positions closer to the byline than we used to, with the result that our defenders are on the back foot more when the ball comes in. Partly, that's the full backs, but its also reflective of the players playing in wide positions (the covering wide player for both the goals at Leicester was McNeil, on different sides). This isn't relevant to the defeat to Chelsea but it has been a trend previously.
Yeah but all Mee has to do is get a shave on it, it's better to do that than just not jump at all. Even challenging for the ball could be enough to put the striker off.

claretonthecoast1882
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Re: Defence options

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:12 pm

This board is priceless at times, not sure there is anywhere else where some who know so little know so much
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Re: Defence options

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:30 pm

superdimitri wrote:Yeah but all Mee has to do is get a shave on it, it's better to do that than just not jump at all. Even challenging for the ball could be enough to put the striker off.
Or he could concede a foul, which would appear to be a positive for you.

superdimitri
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Re: Defence options

Post by superdimitri » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:42 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:This board is priceless at times, not sure there is anywhere else where some who know so little know so much
Incredible isn't it. always get me that too.

claretspice
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Re: Defence options

Post by claretspice » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:27 pm

superdimitri wrote:Yeah but all Mee has to do is get a shave on it, it's better to do that than just not jump at all. Even challenging for the ball could be enough to put the striker off.
I think you're exaggerating the extent to which Mee failed to compete.

Claretmatt4
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Re: Defence options

Post by Claretmatt4 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:04 pm

I get the point being made here about the ball being easier for Vardy to attack, but similarly Mee should have either positioned himself better or at least leapt to make the header more difficult for Vardy. Replays don't show why he didn't jump but I'm sure it's not for lack of effort.

For what it's worth I rate Ben Mee as one of the top defenders in the PL at aerial duals. I'm sure the stats will bear that out too.

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Re: Defence options

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:25 pm

Claretmatt4 wrote:I get the point being made here about the ball being easier for Vardy to attack, but similarly Mee should have either positioned himself better or at least leapt to make the header more difficult for Vardy. Replays don't show why he didn't jump but I'm sure it's not for lack of effort.

For what it's worth I rate Ben Mee as one of the top defenders in the PL at aerial duals. I'm sure the stats will bear that out too.
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ClaretTony
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Re: Defence options

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:12 am

superdimitri wrote:Yeah, the same Vardy that scored an amazing 3 headers total last year, 3 the year before that and 1 the year before that and only 2 out of his 24 league winning goals the season before that were from headers.

I guess Ben Mee has gifted him the chance to get 4 this year. I think you need to look at things again if you think Vardy is one of the "better" players in the air.

Point is, he isn't exactly a weapon the air compared to some players we face in this league. if you can't see that I don't know what you can see. Mee is small but Vardy isn't even taller than him either..

If a cross is whipped in as good as the one was against us then its a dual between striker and defender, nothing more than that. Mee lost when he should have won. He was in a position to do so, just didn't jump for some reason.
Can’t agree with that at all. All dependent on the positions of the two players.

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Re: Defence options

Post by jojomk1 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:18 am

He lost his man in the build up to the cross
Tarks is looking to defend the near post area
Mee looks behind himself (before the cross comes over) and can see where Vardy is, but continues to then mark fresh air - glaring mistake

Quickenthetempo
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Re: Defence options

Post by Quickenthetempo » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:44 am

I still couldn't tell you the plan for Mee and Tarky on who marks the forward and who is the free man, despite watching them every week.
They both have their strengths but a lone striker against two centre halves should always be marked.

The goals away at Brighton,and one each at Villa and Leicester could of been prevented through basic marking.

boatshed bill
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Re: Defence options

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:47 am

superdimitri wrote:Yeah, the same Vardy that scored an amazing 3 headers total last year, 3 the year before that and 1 the year before that and only 2 out of his 24 league winning goals the season before that were from headers.

It's none the less a very good header

If a cross is whipped in as good as the one was against us then its a dual between striker and defender, nothing more than that. Mee lost when he should have won. He was in a position to do so, just didn't jump for some reason.
Had we scored that goal we'd have been saying what a good goal it was.

BOYSIE31
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Re: Defence options

Post by BOYSIE31 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:56 am

superdimitri wrote:Well goals are relative to chances. Top headers of the ball either aren't playing or if they are, for teams that don't create enough chances for them to score.

Point is Vardy is not strong in the air compared to others and shouldn't be hard for Mee to deal with in that respect...for some reason he just didn't jump.

Not slating Mee, just pointing out that I think he was to blame for that goal when others have said he was faultless. Both him and Vardy could have got to the ball and he was beaten far post by someone same size as him (and Ben is small for a centre half).

Also, Ben Mee is 180cm whilst Vardy 179, so not sure where the extra foot in favor of Vardy came from? Maybe he was wearing heels when he was measured.

Quite correct he didnt offer any challenge and didnt jump

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