General Election Is On

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Lowbankclaret
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:47 pm

I think the Tory MP was correct in what he just said.

Have electric voting.


Cross checking names for voting twice etc.

It’s the way forward.
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elwaclaret
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:49 pm

Burt wrote:I wrote to him recently and to be fair he responded in person and advised that he would be raising the issue with the PM. I guess I'll never know if he did or not....
It was no small potatoes stuff.... lost my house, after having my business assets frozen... it was three years before investigators decided I had no case to answer. By which time I’d had a mental breakdown.

I will never forgive him.

aggi
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by aggi » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:49 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Mr Hames is the acting executive director of Transparency IntUK. According to its accounts on its own website, in 2018 Mr Hames’ company received £3,463,555 from the European Commission. Does Mrs Swinson have a vested interest in remaining in the EU?

https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/lib-dems-leader/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Lib Dem Leaders’ husband in massive EU cash payout storm

https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/lib-dems-leader/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Swinson fails to declare family company was given 3.5m euro by the European Union

https://nyebevannews.co.uk/swinson-fail ... ean-union/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll let other posters decide whether jo swinsons family business received 3.5 million quid or not.
Now because Ringo only has a passing dalliance with the truth I thought I'd check this.

Jo Swinson's husband is indeed the Director of Policy at a charity called Transparency Int UK. He's one of 6 directors and it is worth noting that it is a Company Limited by Guarantee so he has no ownership interest in the company.

It received about £3.5m in grants and donations. Below is the breakdown. It will shock no-one apart from Ringo to see that the amount received from the European Commission was zero.
Capture.JPG
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Capture2.JPG
Capture2.JPG (87.17 KiB) Viewed 1907 times
As an aside, the accounts show how much Jo Swinson's husband was paid ~ £70k so even if they were getting EU money (which they are not) the benefit wouldn't be significant.

I'm a little embarrassed for Ringo that he believed this.
Last edited by aggi on Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

martin_p
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:53 pm

They got a grant from a government department in 17/18. Surely it’s in Jo Swinson’s interest to therefore keep the government in power!

Imploding Turtle
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:55 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I think the Tory MP was correct in what he just said.

Have electric voting.


Cross checking names for voting twice etc.

It’s the way forward.
Lol. No.

Why the **** are you people trying to make our election less democratic and less secure? Electronic voting is a ******* disaster in the US. Why would we want that here? (Edit: Oh, right. I keep forgetting. Because **** democracy)

Lowbankclaret
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:59 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Lol. No.

Why the **** are you people trying to make our election less democratic and less secure? Electronic voting is a ******* disaster in the US. Why would we want that here? (Edit: Oh, right. I keep forgetting. Because **** democracy)

Oh your quick to support any suggestion that gets votes for Labour or the remain.

But any suggestion that aids more people voting but control vote rigging.

Your up in arms.

Now there’s a surprise.

True colours nailed to the mast.

aggi
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by aggi » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:00 pm

I just looked a bit more at one of the "sources" that Ringo linked to. This is their online shop ...
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (175.83 KiB) Viewed 1881 times
Spectacular.

Imploding Turtle
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:00 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Oh your quick to support any suggestion that gets votes for Labour or the remain.

But any suggestion that aids more people voting but control vote rigging.

Your up in arms.

Now there’s a surprise.

True colours nailed to the mast.

No. I'm quick to support any suggestion that doesn't clearly attempt to disenfranchise people. Tacitly you're admitting, with your accusation, that doing that also happens to allow people to vote Labour or Remain. so you've basically just accepted my point.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Burt » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:05 pm

elwaclaret wrote:It was no small potatoes stuff.... lost my house, after having my business assets frozen... it was three years before investigators decided I had no case to answer. By which time I’d had a mental breakdown.

I will never forgive him.
Really sorry to hear that. My issue is around the contaminated blood inquiry and he did seem genuinely interested, maybe not surprising given recent exposure in the media
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:14 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:No. I'm quick to support any suggestion that doesn't clearly attempt to disenfranchise people. Tacitly you're admitting, with your accusation, that doing that also happens to allow people to vote Labour or Remain. so you've basically just accepted my point.
So allowing people to vote via an app is disenfranchising people.

I suggest it’s enabling people.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:16 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:So allowing people to vote via an app is disenfranchising people.

I suggest it’s enabling people.

Yeah, when that app gets inevitably hacked and the results untrustworthy, yes - that's disenfranchising people.

elwaclaret
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:17 pm

Burt wrote:Really sorry to hear that. My issue is around the contaminated blood inquiry and he did seem genuinely interested, maybe not surprising given recent exposure in the media
Now back at Uni putting new blocks together on another life... so you move on eventually. But as I say I paid a very heavy price and he now sits on the high tables....

Onwards and upwards. But I don’t think I’ll forgive it.

Lowbankclaret
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:28 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Yeah, when that app gets inevitably hacked and the results untrustworthy, yes - that's disenfranchising people.

Really, you are just showing you support any way that supports vote rigging, no surprise there.

Can I just point out.

My last passport, all done online.

My last driving license all done online.

Secure enough for that but not to vote. Really.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:36 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Really, you are just showing you support any way that supports vote rigging, no surprise there.

Can I just point out.

My last passport, all done online.

My last driving license all done online.

Secure enough for that but not to vote. Really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:36 pm

In a normal universe people Like Lowbank would watch that video and thank you for such a great explanation of why electronic voting is such a dangerous idea,

As it is he'll probably just come up with a load of nonsensical bullsh*t to counter it and no doubt Jakub fresh from staring out his window will embrace his post over the youtube video without question

PS I used to watch this guys many youtube channels some years ago and some of his content is brilliant. I think he wrote an early computer program on emoji's back in the day
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Lowbankclaret
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:41 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:In a normal universe people Like Lowbank would watch that video and thank you for such a great explanation of why electronic voting is such a dangerous idea,

As it is he'll probably just come up with a load of nonsensical bullsh*t to counter it and no doubt Jakub fresh from staring out his window will embrace his post over the youtube video without question

PS I used to watch this guys many youtube channels some years ago and some of his content is brilliant. I think he wrote an early computer program on emoji's back in the day

You are so concerned about voter fraud, but not when concerned with postal votes or proxy votes.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:45 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:You are so concerned about voter fraud, but not when concerned with postal votes or proxy votes.

Yes. We're more concerned about 1 million votes being changed by one person, and we're less concerned by 1 fraudulent vote by 100 different people per general election. Do i need to explain why?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:46 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:You are so concerned about voter fraud, but not when concerned with postal votes or proxy votes.
Im concerned about all voter fraud and im equally concerned about not restricting peoples fundamental right to vote. The key is to get the best balance.

Now with that in mind from watching that video can you see the levels of risk involved in electronic voting compared to our current system?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:51 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Im concerned about all voter fraud and im equally concerned about not restricting peoples fundamental right to vote. The key is to get the best balance.

Now with that in mind from watching that video can you see the levels of risk involved in electronic voting compared to our current system?
So what’s the percentage of driving licences and passports that have been obtained falsely.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:51 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:So allowing people to vote via an app is disenfranchising people.

I suggest it’s enabling people.
If you turn up at a voting booth, you are seen by the registrars. Anyone could usurp an app, and nobody would know who is using it. Just look at the issues of postal votes in Leicester and Peterborough.
I'm not keen on postal voting either, but accept that some people just cant attend a booth.

Personally I'd make voting compulsory, or at least going to the polls. What you do with your ballot paper whilst there is up to you, but too many sacrifices have been made to just dis it. The choosing of a government is a responsibility that should fall on everyone, it's wrong to ignore it.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:53 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:So what’s the percentage of driving licences and passports that have been obtained falsely.
No idea what your point is Mr Bullsh*t but why dont you just tell us what you think about electronic voting in context of the video.

Are you able to admit you may have been wrong?
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:57 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:If you turn up at a voting booth, you are seen by the registrars. Anyone could usurp an app, and nobody would know who is using it. Just look at the issues of postal votes in Leicester and Peterborough.
I'm not keen on postal voting either, but accept that some people just cant attend a booth.

Personally I'd make voting compulsory, or at least going to the polls. What you do with your ballot paper whilst there is up to you, but too many sacrifices have been made to just dis it. The choosing of a government is a responsibility that should fall on everyone, it's wrong to ignore it.

Just like anyone can get loads of postal votes to use.

If driving licences and passports can be secure.

Why not votes

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:58 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:So what’s the percentage of driving licences and passports that have been obtained falsely.
Do you want it to take weeks to count each vote, and cost £40-£80 each to cast it?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:59 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Just like anyone can get loads of postal votes to use.

If driving licences and passports can be secure.

Why not votes

Because there aren't entire countries trying to hack the DVLA to make sure your drivers' licence is assigned to someone else.

Watch the ******* video i linked.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Damo » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:02 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Nah, always go in early with the Nazi references when the resident right wingers forget they are supposed to be reasonable.
Never go full turtle

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:02 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:No idea what your point is Mr Bullsh*t but why dont you just tell us what you think about electronic voting in context of the video.

Are you able to admit you may have been wrong?

Not watched it yet.

But oh yea someone made a video.
Brexit party made a video about the creation of the EU army.

Not holding that up as up as fact are we?

You lot only back something that supports your argument.

It’s like you don’t have a brain and can think for yourselves.

Elizabeth
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Elizabeth » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:06 pm

Public fed up with Brexit.
My opinion:

Remainers who are committed to leaving voting Lib Dem;
Leavers and other remainers voting Tory;
Hard brexiteers voting Brexit Party

Labour obliterated, majority win for Tories

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:06 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Not watched it yet.

But oh yea someone made a video.
Brexit party made a video about the creation of the EU army.

Not holding that up as up as fact are we?

You lot only back something that supports your argument.

It’s like you don’t have a brain and can think for yourselves.
Watch the video. It isnt politically motivated at all. Its from a computer whizkid/geek who does all sorts of informative videos
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:08 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Not watched it yet.

But oh yea someone made a video.
Brexit party made a video about the creation of the EU army.

Not holding that up as up as fact are we?

You lot only back something that supports your argument.

It’s like you don’t have a brain and can think for yourselves.
Just watch it, it's actually pretty good and I'd never agree with electronic voting for exactly the reasons outlined in the video.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:08 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Just like anyone can get loads of postal votes to use.

If driving licences and passports can be secure.

Why not votes
People dont register for multiple postal votes, its unscrupulous supporters making use of postal votes of other people under various guises. Wether that's because they didn't want to use it, or didn't understand the system so had it filled in for them. The percentage of people entitled to a postal vote is proportionally very small, compared to those who take up the opportunity. Therefore there is a huge number that can be exploited.

It's already been proved that this has happened, what steps have been taken to close the loop hole I dont know, but something needs to be done.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Greenmile » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:09 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Not watched it yet.

But oh yea someone made a video.
Brexit party made a video about the creation of the EU army.

Not holding that up as up as fact are we?

You lot only back something that supports your argument.

It’s like you don’t have a brain and can think for yourselves.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:17 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Not watched it yet.

But oh yea someone made a video.
Brexit party made a video about the creation of the EU army.

Not holding that up as up as fact are we?

You lot only back something that supports your argument.

It’s like you don’t have a brain and can['t] think for yourselves.

Is this why you people are so fiercely anti-intellectual? Because you think that changing your opinions based on people the information of people who are smarter than you on a given subject is, in your view, not thinking for oneself?

No ******* wonder you're wrong so much of the time.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:23 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:People dont register for multiple postal votes, its unscrupulous supporters making use of postal votes of other people under various guises. Wether that's because they didn't want to use it, or didn't understand the system so had it filled in for them. The percentage of people entitled to a postal vote is proportionally very small, compared to those who take up the opportunity. Therefore there is a huge number that can be exploited.

It's already been proved that this has happened, what steps have been taken to close the loop hole I dont know, but something needs to be done.
If someone has applied for a postal vote on your behalf without your knowledge then you can't vote in-person. You'd arrive at the polling station and they'd not have you on their list of electors. (or maybe they would but they'd have you down as a postal voter, i'm uncertain).

If this was a major problem in our elections then there'd be thousands or tens of thousands of examples of people arriving to vote but being turned away. These people would be ****** off and want to know why they couldn't vote, the press would find out, there'd be a massive investigation and election results would be thrown out.
Last edited by Imploding Turtle on Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:23 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:People dont register for multiple postal votes, its unscrupulous supporters making use of postal votes of other people under various guises. Wether that's because they didn't want to use it, or didn't understand the system so had it filled in for them. The percentage of people entitled to a postal vote is proportionally very small, compared to those who take up the opportunity. Therefore there is a huge number that can be exploited.

It's already been proved that this has happened, what steps have been taken to close the loop hole I dont know, but something needs to be done.
How many results have been declared void due to voter fraud influencing the outcome?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:23 pm

Are we seriously debating the ease of rigging paper votes vs electronic votes. Time for bed.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Stayingup » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:26 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:Jezza knows it’s his last roll of the dice , they’ll lose so many votes to the liberals it will be painful but at last see Corbyn’s toxic labour routed which can only be good .

Much will depend on Farage, if he stands he could still cause chaos for the Tories if he doesn’t or his support drops it’s a shoo in for BoJo imo
I think.that Farage and Johnson will have a plan in place for a Brexit Party candidate to stand where a Tory has no chance and the Tory will drop out and more crucial to prevent another Peterborough, vice versa. That would spell real trouble for Labour who will also lose votes to the Libdems.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Bfcboyo » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:45 pm

Tory Brexit party hook up
Lib Dems the 2nd party
Labour obliterated

Watch this space

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Bfcboyo » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:46 pm

Julie Cooper or hooper was it ?
Already forgotten.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:54 pm

You can rest assured that if Boris needs the help of the Brexit party after the election he'll have to dance to Nigel's tune in a big way.

He may well regret not getting Brexit sorted before an election.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:03 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I think the Tory MP was correct in what he just said.

Have electric voting.


Cross checking names for voting twice etc.

It’s the way forward.
The names change with the same voter voting, with the technology about nowadays, fingerprints or photo ID would be foolproof, we have the technology built into our gadgets, why can’t we install a machine in every polling station.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:25 pm

I’m wracking my brains and struggling to come up with a reason for anyone to vote Brexit Party this time.

All they will do is dilute Johnson’s vote, and he is the only chance they have of getting any real Brexit. Cummings (if he hangs around for the campaign) will go in hard with this message. People will get to hear it and will have to decide.

I suspect many people will give the Tories one last chance under a PM they like. For example, I would vote SDP but they are standing down many candidates so as not to threaten Brexit. I expect him to get 45% of the vote and a huge majority, enabling him to get out of the EU fast and then pursue his radical agenda.

Note, I’m not suggesting this is good or bad, just saying what might happen.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:32 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I’m wracking my brains and struggling to come up with a reason for anyone to vote Brexit Party this time.

All they will do is dilute Johnson’s vote, and he is the only chance they have of getting any real Brexit.
You’ve answered your own question.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:42 pm

martin_p wrote:How many results have been declared void due to voter fraud influencing the outcome?
That's irrelevant, the fact is its happened and is happening.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:44 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Really, you are just showing you support any way that supports vote rigging, no surprise there.

Can I just point out.

My last passport, all done online.

My last driving license all done online.

Secure enough for that but not to vote. Really.
Check this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:46 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:If someone has applied for a postal vote on your behalf without your knowledge then you can't vote in-person. You'd arrive at the polling station and they'd not have you on their list of electors. (or maybe they would but they'd have you down as a postal voter, i'm uncertain).

If this was a major problem in our elections then there'd be thousands or tens of thousands of examples of people arriving to vote but being turned away. These people would be ****** off and want to know why they couldn't vote, the press would find out, there'd be a massive investigation and election results would be thrown out.
You're missing what I said.
It isnt people who turn up at the booth whose vote is being stolen, but those people sat at home with either no intention of voting, or putting their trust in a third party with a political bias. When a postal vote arrives at the count, what is proof is there to show that it was filled in by the person who's name is on the paper.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:46 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I’m wracking my brains and struggling to come up with a reason for anyone to vote Brexit Party this time.

All they will do is dilute Johnson’s vote, and he is the only chance they have of getting any real Brexit. Cummings (if he hangs around for the campaign) will go in hard with this message. People will get to hear it and will have to decide.

I suspect many people will give the Tories one last chance under a PM they like. For example, I would vote SDP but they are standing down many candidates so as not to threaten Brexit. I expect him to get 45% of the vote and a huge majority, enabling him to get out of the EU fast and then pursue his radical agenda.

Note, I’m not suggesting this is good or bad, just saying what might happen.
I agree. Provided he sends the message we will leave with a proper brexit (i.e. his deal), he wins. Easily. The Brexit Party will only pick up votes from Labour leavers that are so tribally anti-Tory they can't bring themselves to ever vote Tory. I can't see them winning many seats with this vote alone.

The only way he fails to win easily is if Lab/Lib/Green/SNP team up and only put up one candidate between them per seat. I can't see that happening.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:47 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I expect him to get 45% of the vote and a huge majority, enabling him to get out of the EU fast and then pursue his radical agenda.
Even Tony Blair only got 43% in 1997.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:49 pm

Spijed wrote:Even Tony Blair only got 43% in 1997.
He'll get about 38, probably. Enough to win easily.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:53 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:You're missing what I said.
It isnt people who turn up at the booth whose vote is being stolen, but those people sat at home with either no intention of voting, or putting their trust in a third party with a political bias. When a postal vote arrives at the count, what is proof is there to show that it was filled in by the person who's name is on the paper.
No proof whatsoever, it’s a piece of paper & a envelope, somebody could picked it up from the pavement in the event of a dozy postman or somebody dropping it or any other reason, in this day & age you need technology really something unique to differentiate people from people.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:01 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:The names change with the same voter voting, with the technology about nowadays, fingerprints or photo ID would be foolproof, we have the technology built into our gadgets, why can’t we install a machine in every polling station.
Instances of voter fraud, let alone that which is concentrated enough to swing an election, is so infrequent as to be statistically insignificant, and while there is no such thing as an acceptable level of voter fraud, like all things in life where the upholding of law is concerned, the actions taken to uphold the law need to be balanced against the risks inherent in those actions.

Anyone arguing for electronic voting machines has a terribly naïve understanding of technology. Those machines are far more insecure than a paper ballot; susceptible to, at best, glitches, and at worst, hacks, and the only people in the country who would benefit from their use are the companies close enough to govt ministers able to secure the undoubtedly lucrative contract to supply them. The idea of fingerprint databases is so near-sighted and horrifically Orwellian that it doesn't even need comment. Which brings us to ID. If you truly believe in democracy the baseline should always be enfranchisement (conditional; age etc) as a birth right, and any impediment to the exercising of this right, the ostensible necessity of any obstacle...sorry...'safeguard' to one's ability to vote freely should always be balanced against the justification for its use, so to put it crudely, it comes down to the arithmetic of election security vs the potential for disenfranchisement, which in the case of voter ID and it's potential effect on enfranchisement is so hilariously lop sided that one's mask slips with its advocacy. There are too many people on here, and elsewhere out in the world, using the language of ballot integrity to justify voter suppression because they have at some point in their life, somewhere, somehow, internalised that it advances their politics. Don't dare pretend otherwise.
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