General Election Is On

[Lancasterclaret]

One thing you won't see is Corbyn or Johnson in front of Neil.

They'd be just as lost facing him to be fair, and with a lot more reasons to be as well.

[AndyClaret]

One thing you won't see is Corbyn or Johnson in front of Neil.

They'd be just as lost facing him to be fair, and with a lot more reasons to be as well.

Ahem....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politi ... of-gatt-24" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Stayingup]

This could be a game-changer.

I'm sure this has been planned for a while. It will ensure leave EU wins. That is Tories (leave) Lib Dems (remain)..Labour - who knows

[Lancasterclaret]

Ahem....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politi ... of-gatt-24" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And how did he do Andy?

Course, and I'm sure you knew this, was that when he was PM?

[AndrewJB]

American companies have been working in partnership with NHS trusts since at least 2006 though.
If it's only a recent issue for you now then you'll need to explain why.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... privatised" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It’s increased a great deal since Lansley’s top down reorganisation that CMeron promised we wouldn’t have.

When the NHS has been sued for millions over the way contracts have been awarded, I’d say it’s gone too far.

[TheFamilyCat]

I'm sure this has been planned for a while. It will ensure leave EU wins. That is Tories (leave) Lib Dems (remain)..Labour - who knows

Can only hope Boris shafts Farage out of whatever he's offered him when it's all over.

[AndrewJB]

Batten down the hatches it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Ex-Labour adviser predicts 'not very nice' election

BBC News Channel

John McTernan, a former adviser to ex-PM Tony Blair, says he expects Labour to focus its campaign on the trustworthiness of Boris Johnson and "bread and butter issues" such as housing and the NHS.

He says a key factor will be whether Mr Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn can best "mobilise" the distrust that certain sectors of the electorate have in the other man.

There are "massive character issues" with both, he says, and notes that Mr Corbyn is "not trusted" by working-class voters in the north of England.

He says he expects "not a very nice election" - and says the contest will be "very unstable", with four or five parties fighting each other in certain seats.

The head-to-head debates should be fun,the issue that caught my eye was the comment that Corbyn isn't trusted by working-class voters in the north of England,there is plenty of Tory target seats that leaned heavily leave in that region,i guess the question will be how many traditional Labour voters will hold their nose and vote Conservative,the BP could impact a lot of results,but i can't see them claiming seats,depends who's vote they put a bigger dent in Conservative or Labour.

Mctiernen hates Corbyn, so it’s not surprising he’s written this. There are leave voters who don’t want to live n a deregulated, low tax (for the rich) waste land. The only party offering them a Brexit is Labour.

[Colburn_Claret]

I don't think the financial transaction tax is a common topic with the lads down the pub either but I don't see what relevance that has either.

So the other parties haven't said anything about helping working class men (I'm not really sure whether women aren't working class or just aren't important) so it doesn't matter if their leaders haven't been/hung out with/engaged with the working class class man because they're not planning on doing anything to help them? Doesn't sound like a vote winner to me.

People or the vast majority of people arent aware of, or give a damn about financial transaction tax. They judge the state of the country, by their own experience. Can they pay the bills etc. At present they can do that, so much like Macawber they are happy bunnies. This drive for renationalisation doesnt hold sway with them, because it doesnt affect them, they have bigger priorities. Like I've said Corbyn is living in the past.
Labour need to look to the future, and deliver for all the people of this country, they need to get back to the centre ground of British politics. That means abandoning the old ideology of the past and meeting the needs of today. As it is they haven't got a cat in hells chance.

[Imploding Turtle]

American companies have been working in partnership with NHS trusts since at least 2006 though.
If it's only a recent issue for you now then you'll need to explain why.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... privatised" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I like how instead of debating the issue you instead try to deflect form it by demanding they prove that they either opposed it from the outset or explain why they changed their mind. You probably think this is productive and not destructive to any discussion, but you'd be wrong.

Why do you have to gatekeep peoples opinion instead of just engaging with them on the points they raised? Your tactic is cancerous to any discussion, which might be the intent.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It’s increased a great deal since Lansley’s top down reorganisation that CMeron promised we wouldn’t have.

When the NHS has been sued for millions over the way contracts have been awarded, I’d say it’s gone too far.

You're referring to Virgin suing the NHS I assume?

The only other case is the Waste disposal company in Yorkshire that was found to be stacking up the waste at its premises instead of disposing of them correctly (or something like that) and as a result 20+ trusts terminated their contract with said company, they then sued the NHS trusts etc.

[aggi]

People or the vast majority of people arent aware of, or give a damn about financial transaction tax. They judge the state of the country, by their own experience. Can they pay the bills etc. At present they can do that, so much like Macawber they are happy bunnies. This drive for renationalisation doesnt hold sway with them, because it doesnt affect them, they have bigger priorities. Like I've said Corbyn is living in the past.
Labour need to look to the future, and deliver for all the people of this country, they need to get back to the centre ground of British politics. That means abandoning the old ideology of the past and meeting the needs of today. As it is they haven't got a cat in hells chance.

I'd have to disagree with you there. A lot of people are suffering every day due to the trains for instance and that's one of labour's main targets for nationalisation. I suspect that anyone in Burnley who regularly travels on Northern Rail isn't a happy bunny.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I like how instead of debating the issue you instead try to deflect form it by demanding they prove that they either opposed it from the outset or explain why they changed their mind. You probably think this is productive and not destructive to any discussion, but you'd be wrong.

Why do you have to gatekeep peoples opinion instead of just engaging with them on the points they raised? Your tactic is cancerous to any discussion, which might be the intent.

Someone raises a concern about American involvement in the NHS, mainly post Brexit.

I then pointed out that it's been going on for at least 13 years and asked why is it an issue now, but not in the past.
If that's cancerous to a discussion then it's pointless having a discussion on anything.
I even provided proof that it's been going on since at least 2006 to keep my claim accurate, something you're usually a big fan of.
In fact you live to grind people down on here with facts, charts, links to articles etc.

If people are suddenly having issues with things due to Brexit that have been going on for a fair while now, what's wrong with asking why it's suddenly an issue?

[jrgbfc]

People or the vast majority of people arent aware of, or give a damn about financial transaction tax. They judge the state of the country, by their own experience. Can they pay the bills etc. At present they can do that, so much like Macawber they are happy bunnies. This drive for renationalisation doesnt hold sway with them, because it doesnt affect them, they have bigger priorities. Like I've said Corbyn is living in the past.
Labour need to look to the future, and deliver for all the people of this country, they need to get back to the centre ground of British politics. That means abandoning the old ideology of the past and meeting the needs of today. As it is they haven't got a cat in hells chance.

So you think people who rely on trains to get to work every day are happy being ripped off and having a substandard service? And it might be a shock to you but not everyone votes for the party who promises to put a few extra quid in their own pocket.

[taio]

It’s increased a great deal since Lansley’s top down reorganisation that CMeron promised we wouldn’t have.

When the NHS has been sued for millions over the way contracts have been awarded, I’d say it’s gone too far.

- Labour introduced 'any willing provider' in the NHS prior to Lansley
- legal challenge over the award of contracts won't be successful if NHS commissioners are competent in complying with procurement law
- the above is EU procurement law.

[AndyClaret]

Rochdale councillor cautioned for voting twice.

https://news.sky.com/story/rochdale-cou ... n-11473294" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Imploding Turtle]

Rochdale councillor cautioned for voting twice.

https://news.sky.com/story/rochdale-cou ... n-11473294" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here it is, boys and girls. Andy Claret has found the voter fraud that proves we need to disenfranchise poor people

[Greenmile]

....I have not admitted I've lied on here...

... I have a degree....

[AndyClaret]

Here it is, boys and girls. Andy Claret has found the voter fraud that proves we need to disenfranchise poor people

"poor people" some top class virtue signalling there, go and polish your halo.

[Imploding Turtle]

People or the vast majority of people arent aware of, or give a damn about financial transaction tax. They judge the state of the country, by their own experience. Can they pay the bills etc. At present they can do that, so much like Macawber they are happy bunnies. This drive for renationalisation doesnt hold sway with them, because it doesnt affect them, they have bigger priorities. Like I've said Corbyn is living in the past.
Labour need to look to the future, and deliver for all the people of this country, they need to get back to the centre ground of British politics. That means abandoning the old ideology of the past and meeting the needs of today. As it is they haven't got a cat in hells chance.

Why is it that you are so abso-*******-lutely certain all the ******* time about every dumb ******* thing you say, and yet as so ******* probably wrong?

As of 2017 a majority of people think that the Royal Mail, rail companies, water companies, energy companies should be nationalised.

Why the **** are you making up this idea that the public aren't interested in renationalisation? Have you even tried to find out if your preconceptions are supported by the facts, or is this really just how you conduct debates with other people - you pretend the **** you're saying is true and just hope that a) it is, and b) that no one else will call you out on it if it's wrong.

[Imploding Turtle]

"poor people" some top class virtue signalling there, go and polish your halo.

To people like Andy, every time other people care about something other than themselves it is "virtue-signalling".

This is because Andy is a far-right **** who doesn't understand what it means to have compassion and empathy.

Don't be like Andy.

[AndyClaret]

To people like Andy, every time other people care about something other than themselves it is "virtue-signalling".

This is because Andy is a far-right **** who doesn't understand what it means to have compassion and empathy.

Don't be like Andy.

Oww sweetheart

[Stayingup]

Oh please let Johnson lose his seat. Please, please, please. The irony of him being ousted by an outbreak of democracy in Uxbridge - ideally losing by one vote - is such a wonderful proposition. (Don't spoil it, you lot, by banging on about the implications of that happening.....just, for the moment let me enjoy the prospect of it).

Your going to be very disappointed. Especially when he wins the GE with a stonking majority.

[Colburn_Claret]

Why is it that you are so abso-*******-lutely certain all the ******* time about every dumb ******* thing you say, and yet as so ******* probably wrong?

As of 2017 a majority of people think that the Royal Mail, rail companies, water companies, energy companies should be nationalised.

Why the **** are you making up this idea that the public aren't interested in renationalisation? Have you even tried to find out if your preconceptions are supported by the facts, or is this really just how you conduct debates with other people - you pretend the **** you're saying is true and just hope that a) it is, and b) that no one else will call you out on it if it's wrong.

I dont need to make anything up. How often do you sit in the pub, if you ever leave your bedroom, and listen to working class man harping on about the need to renationalise........
It doesnt happen, it isnt on the tip of everyone's tongue. Honestly the vast majority couldn't give a toss. In fact that's not true, I do care, but only because Labour couldn't run a **** up in a brewery, and therefore the chances they can take back public ownership, and run them at break even is zero. It would either end up costing the tax payer, or just be inefficient.
Mind, I bet you cant wait to go and tell all your renationalising mates down the pub, how out of touch I am.

[Stayingup]

To people like Andy, every time other people care about something other than themselves it is "virtue-signalling".

This is because Andy is a far-right **** who doesn't understand what it means to have compassion and empathy.

Don't be like Andy.

Oh how lazy and how predictable from you. Far right. What is it? A tory voter? A Hitler fanatic? Anybody that doesnt agree with you and Stalin? What age were you when you got brain washed?

[Colburn_Claret]

So you think people who rely on trains to get to work every day are happy being ripped off and having a substandard service? And it might be a shock to you but not everyone votes for the party who promises to put a few extra quid in their own pocket.

I dont suppose they are, but if they think it's bad now they are in for a shock if Jeremy gets his way.
Maybe it's part of the North South divide, the vast majority of train users, or reliant on trains on a daily basis are probably commuting into London. I've used the trains about 3 times in the last 30 years, but I do require the post office, and utilities.
As for not voting for a the party that promises to put money in my pocket, I was a member of the Labour party for 35 years, I never voted for them to improve how much money I would get. The reason I wont vote for Corbyn is because he would wreck this country, and when it falls it's always the people at the bottom who pay the biggest price. The elderly, the sick, the unemployed.

[Stayingup]

Why is it that you are so abso-*******-lutely certain all the ******* time about every dumb ******* thing you say, and yet as so ******* probably wrong?

As of 2017 a majority of people think that the Royal Mail, rail companies, water companies, energy companies should be nationalised.


Why the **** are you making up this idea that the public aren't interested in renationalisation? Have you even tried to find out if your preconceptions are supported by the facts, or is this really just how you conduct debates with other people - you pretend the **** you're saying is true and just hope that a) it is, and b) that no one else will call you out on it if it's wrong.

As of 2017 a majority want the PO etc nationalising. Have you conducted your own survey with your two mates or is it really just a wish? I'm interested. I have to say I do have some sympathy to this view with some industries ...like rail.

[aggi]

I dont need to make anything up. How often do you sit in the pub, if you ever leave your bedroom, and listen to working class man harping on about the need to renationalise........
It doesnt happen, it isnt on the tip of everyone's tongue. Honestly the vast majority couldn't give a toss. In fact that's not true, I do care, but only because Labour couldn't run a **** up in a brewery, and therefore the chances they can take back public ownership, and run them at break even is zero. It would either end up costing the tax payer, or just be inefficient.
Mind, I bet you cant wait to go and tell all your renationalising mates down the pub, how out of touch I am.

I think the issue here is that your local pub isn't representative of the country. Just because you and the person sat next to you doesn't think it's an issue doesn't mean it isn't an issue.

[aggi]

As of 2017 a majority want the PO etc nationalising. Have you conducted your own survey with your two mates or is it really just a wish? I'm interested. I have to say I do have some sympathy to this view with some industries ...like rail.

I assume something like this is what he's referring to:



https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... ublic-view" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I dont suppose they are, but if they think it's bad now they are in for a shock if Jeremy gets his way.
Maybe it's part of the North South divide, the vast majority of train users, or reliant on trains on a daily basis are probably commuting into London. I've used the trains about 3 times in the last 30 years, but I do require the post office, and utilities.
As for not voting for a the party that promises to put money in my pocket, I was a member of the Labour party for 35 years, I never voted for them to improve how much money I would get. The reason I wont vote for Corbyn is because he would wreck this country, and when it falls it's always the people at the bottom who pay the biggest price. The elderly, the sick, the unemployed.

Thank god for the Tories being the party for the elderly, sick and unemployed??

[dsr]

If 16 year olds can't vote why aren't they exempt from tax and stuff?

Same reason as all children from new-born to 17 can't vote. Because they aren't old enough. Any rules about "only taxpayers can vote" went out the window long ago; our democracy now means that the right to vote does not depend on income.

I'm not sure if the suggestion is that rich kids should be allowed to vote and poor kids not; or if it's that children not old enough to vote should be exempt from tax. Either way, it gives huge potential advantages for the rich over the poor; I'm surprised you're implicitly suggesting it - if that's what you're implying?

[Goobs]

Same reason as all children from new-born to 17 can't vote. Because they aren't old enough. Any rules about "only taxpayers can vote" went out the window long ago; our democracy now means that the right to vote does not depend on income.

I'm not sure if the suggestion is that rich kids should be allowed to vote and poor kids not; or if it's that children not old enough to vote should be exempt from tax. Either way, it gives huge potential advantages for the rich over the poor; I'm surprised you're implicitly suggesting it - if that's what you're implying?

I read it as, if someone is old enough to work and therefore be taxed by the government, then they should also be eligible to have a say in who it is that applies said taxes?

[ClaretAndJew]

That was my point. If we're taking from them as we do any other member of the voting population, why are they then unable to vote?

Either let them work tax free until voting age or let them have a say in what happens to their tax money.

[Clarets4me]

I believe Shirley Temple was one of the highest earners, and tax payers in the United States, at the height of her child stardom .... she was 7 years old.

Should she have been entitled to vote ?

[Colburn_Claret]

I think the issue here is that your local pub isn't representative of the country. Just because you and the person sat next to you doesn't think it's an issue doesn't mean it isn't an issue.

Fair enough, but if Labour are pinning their hopes of winning an election on the renationalisation ticket, they are going to be sadly disappointed. I'm not saying it doesnt matter, but it is way down on a list of anyones priorities, if it's on the list at all.

[Colburn_Claret]

Thank god for the Tories being the party for the elderly, sick and unemployed??

I've never claimed anywhere that they are Steve, but that doesnt make Labours pie in the sky policies any more palatable.
What life has taught me is if you want a good health service, pensions, schools, welfare state it costs money. You need a thriving economy to fund it. The worse the economy is, the greater the need for welfare, yet the smaller the kitty is. I wouldnt trust Corbyn and his politics to run a country with a thriving economy. He'll bleed the rich until they decide it's not worth making money, and then the **** hits the fan. There has to be a balance between generating wealth, and public services, and if you tip it too far one way or the other it breaks down. Then it's the poorest that suffer.

[Damo]

I like how instead of debating the issue you instead try to deflect form it by demanding they prove that they either opposed it from the outset or explain why they changed their mind. You probably think this is productive and not destructive to any discussion, but you'd be wrong.

Why do you have to gatekeep peoples opinion instead of just engaging with them on the points they raised? Your tactic is cancerous to any discussion, which might be the intent.

Calm down imploding Bercow.
It's a football message board. His post was perfectly valid whether you liked it or not

[If it be your will]

Fair enough, but if Labour are pinning their hopes of winning an election on the renationalisation ticket, they are going to be sadly disappointed. I'm not saying it doesnt matter, but it is way down on a list of anyones priorities, if it's on the list at all.

If Labour go with renationalising rail and utilities whilst also supporting remain, they'll be sitting ducks the right wing press. I've already seen The Telegraph gearing up on this front: explaining how Labour's 2017 commitments are incompatible with EU membership. I expect you'll see this a lot from the Tories over the next 6 weeks. It looks like the left-wing leave arguments are finally going to come out into the mainstream now - via the Tory press of all places!

[aggi]

Fair enough, but if Labour are pinning their hopes of winning an election on the renationalisation ticket, they are going to be sadly disappointed. I'm not saying it doesnt matter, but it is way down on a list of anyones priorities, if it's on the list at all.

I don't think renationalisation is their sole policy but, for the trains at least, it will be welcome to many. Have a look at the northern rail hashtag on twitter for instance https://twitter.com/hashtag/northernrail?lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AndrewJB]

I dont suppose they are, but if they think it's bad now they are in for a shock if Jeremy gets his way.
Maybe it's part of the North South divide, the vast majority of train users, or reliant on trains on a daily basis are probably commuting into London. I've used the trains about 3 times in the last 30 years, but I do require the post office, and utilities.
As for not voting for a the party that promises to put money in my pocket, I was a member of the Labour party for 35 years, I never voted for them to improve how much money I would get. The reason I wont vote for Corbyn is because he would wreck this country, and when it falls it's always the people at the bottom who pay the biggest price. The elderly, the sick, the unemployed.

What brainwashed nonsense. Where have you been for the last ten years? The country is already I ruin due to massive cuts and sell offs so the Tories could reward their paymasters in the City with tax cuts. Privatised railways are being run so well that even a majority of Tory voters want to see them nationalised again. When the East Coast Mainline has (twice) failed as a franchise - which is to say the private venture sucked as much profit out as they could and then walked away from the contract - it turned into the UKs best run railway while under government control.

You are the one living in the past with your “state is bad and business is good” mantra. Forty years of that has led to a housing crisis, and underfunded infrastructure. Labour just want to rebalance the economy in favour of ordinary people (who you accuse of being too stupid to understand nationalisation in the first place). The economics of thatcher is finished. Greed is not good. Get with the new times.

[Dy1geo]

I can see the principles in Nationalising certain industries but want these questions answering:-

1) Will the use the current market value when repurchasing the shares because if not people will lose out, around 30% of Royal Mail shares are held by small shareholders and employees
2) What is the Cost
3) How will it be funded will they have to issue more Gilt’s to do this which will push up the yield
4) When people’s workplace pension funds and ISA’s fall in value will they apologise

[AndrewJB]

I've never claimed anywhere that they are Steve, but that doesnt make Labours pie in the sky policies any more palatable.
What life has taught me is if you want a good health service, pensions, schools, welfare state it costs money. You need a thriving economy to fund it. The worse the economy is, the greater the need for welfare, yet the smaller the kitty is. I wouldnt trust Corbyn and his politics to run a country with a thriving economy. He'll bleed the rich until they decide it's not worth making money, and then the **** hits the fan. There has to be a balance between generating wealth, and public services, and if you tip it too far one way or the other it breaks down. Then it's the poorest that suffer.

The rich have been bleeding everyone else here for forty years. Seven hundred deaths of homeless people in the last year. Over a million having to use food banks, including working people. And your “thriving economy to fund a happy country” argument falls apart on the subject of Brexit.

[Lancasterclaret]

Since 2009, the Tories have cut 21000 Police officers

In 2019, they have made a huge commitment to recruiting 20,000 Police Officers

Now, if you see that as a drop in -1000 Police officers in 10 years, you are probably not going to vote Conservative

Now, if you see that as the Conservatives being the party you can trust with the police force, then you are probably going to believe absolutely anything.

If Labour can switch the focus on what has actually happened to the public services that we ALL rely on over the past ten years, then they will probably do alright.

If they can't, then they will get absolutely hammered by all the other parties.

[AndrewJB]

I can see the principles in Nationalising certain industries but want these questions answering:-

1) Will the use the current market value when repurchasing the shares because if not people will lose out, around 30% of Royal Mail shares are held by small shareholders and employees
2) What is the Cost
3) How will it be funded will they have to issue more Gilt’s to do this which will push up the yield
4) When people’s workplace pension funds and ISA’s fall in value will they apologise

You’d have to go to Labour’s website to see their ideas on this - because I think they might approach different industries differently - but in a nutshell, yes there will be losers. When you buy stocks in anything there’s always a chance those stocks might lose value, or that something happens that reduces the value on them, just as they might see the value rise.

I’d like to see those who flipped their shares in Royal Mail, and made huge profits (despite promising not to do this), get taxed retrospectively.

[Dy1geo]

You’d have to go to Labour’s website to see their ideas on this - because I think they might approach different industries differently - but in a nutshell, yes there will be losers. When you buy stocks in anything there’s always a chance those stocks might lose value, or that something happens that reduces the value on them, just as they might see the value rise.

I’d like to see those who flipped their shares in Royal Mail, and made huge profits (despite promising not to do this), get taxed retrospectively.

The point I am making is are they planning on purchasing below market value if so that in my opinion is a form of stealing. Millions hold the utilities in their workplace pensions that will take a hit.

I can see the point in renationalising the Railways but everything else to be ideological driven at an unknown cost to the economy

[AndyClaret]

The Corbynistas go to pollsters Survation, give Boris an 8 point lead.

[ClaretAndJew]

MON THE TORIES! RUIN THE NORTH AGAIN! WOOOO.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Since 2009, the Tories have cut 21000 Police officers

In 2019, they have made a huge commitment to recruiting 20,000 Police Officers

Now, if you see that as a drop in -1000 Police officers in 10 years, you are probably not going to vote Conservative

Now, if you see that as the Conservatives being the party you can trust with the police force, then you are probably going to believe absolutely anything.

If Labour can switch the focus on what has actually happened to the public services that we ALL rely on over the past ten years, then they will probably do alright.

If they can't, then they will get absolutely hammered by all the other parties.

Yeh but the Tories are creating 20000 new police officers now so everything will be fine! Just another 1000 to find and we’ll be back to 2009 levels!

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

MON THE TORIES! RUIN THE NORTH AGAIN! WOOOO.

It might be but remember it will be done so by a chubby man with silly hair who says lots of funny words which will help take peoples minds of their problems!

[AndrewJB]

The point I am making is are they planning on purchasing below market value if so that in my opinion is a form of stealing. Millions hold the utilities in their workplace pensions that will take a hit.

I can see the point in renationalising the Railways but everything else to be ideological driven at an unknown cost to the economy

When those state owned companies were sold off at below market price was that stealing too (an insider job?)?

Once Labour look likely to win, we’ll see those stocks fall in price, as they get sold off. Possibly below the value of the assets of the companies themselves.

[claretonthecoast1882]

When those state owned companies were sold off at below market price was that stealing too (an insider job?)?

Once Labour look likely to win.

Are you talking about the next election ?