General Election Is On

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Imploding Turtle
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:55 am

Damo wrote:Surprised nobody has mentioned Bercow admitting that he was a massive remainer all along.
Not that it wasnt clear that he didnt respect his position and remain impartial.
Its little wonder the average man has such little disdain for the elected representatives of this country.
Good riddance to the poisonous dwarf
lol. Being a remainer now means you get called "poisonous dwarf" by the people who whine and bitch about snowflakes and incivility.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:49 am

I'm surprised none of Corbyn-haters on here haven't jumped on this rather extremis reply of his about entrepreneurs. No wonder the Telegraph compared him to Stalin, to be honest.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AaronBastani ... 3735121923" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:57 am

If it be your will wrote:I'm not saying the poll isn't fixed, anything is possible, but it was conducted on behalf of the Mail, who wrote a story on it. I don't think it's just some bloke making polls up.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -seat.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Mail just make news up, so don’t put it past them.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by mdd2 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:08 am

Pretty sure we will get a hung parliament again as Tories will lose in Scotland many of their 13 MPs and in the SW IMO so won't pick up enough Labour seats to get a majority and that is without the effects of the Brexit Party. There will NOT be a Tory Government even if the get more seats than Labour
I think a minority Labour Government is very much on the cards propped up by the SNP as there will be second referenda on Brexit and Scottish Independence granted by Labour and the second Brexit referendum with or without a softer Brexit deal will get Lib.Dem support. Lib Dems may not support a Labour budget but won't support any no confidence vote until we are nailed into the EU.
So we will see what develops. Given the promises for the future spending my grandkids and great grandkids have an unfortunate future as eventually we either inflate our way out of debt or have a millstone around their necks of a £2trillion+ national debt
So far the Tories are shooting themselves in both feet and one hand. Margaret Thatcher will be turning in her grave at their abject incompetence.
**** up and brewery come to mind.
Struggling to decide where to put my X come the 12th of December

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:23 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'm surprised none of Corbyn-haters on here haven't jumped on this rather extremis reply of his about entrepreneurs. No wonder the Telegraph compared him to Stalin, to be honest.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AaronBastani ... 3735121923" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wow, I didn’t know it but it seems I’m a Marxist!
Last edited by martin_p on Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:25 am

martin_p wrote:Wow, it’s didn’t know it but it seems I’m a Marxist!
Bottoms up, comrade!

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:42 am

There does appear to be some very opinionated posters on the right on here.

So, one question

Do you think Corbyn will have rich people shot?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by fatboy47 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:51 am

If it be your will wrote:That I really don't know. I'd be slightly - but not totally - surprised if Survation were basically a 'cash for poll results' organisation. Out of interest, do you think all the polling organisations just produce the results that the commissioner wants (that is, every single poll is complete balls, hardly worth even looking at), or Survation's in particular?

there are bigger..more ""reputable"" pollsters...Gallup and Mori to name but two..but you have to remember that nearly all polls are commissioned by vested interests with an agenda around manipulating publc opnion....this includes the Labour Party btw.

The sheep instinct is very strong in the core population and people will vote for who they think will win...and form their opinions from what they percieve to be the opinions of others. The "bandwagon" approach is commonly used by the Libs at every election...promoting the idea of massve building momentum....theyve done this n every election I can remember since the early 70's.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:54 am

If it be your will wrote:That I really don't know. I'd be slightly - but not totally - surprised if Survation were basically a 'cash for poll results' organisation. Out of interest, do you think all the polling organisations just produce the results that the commissioner wants (that is, every single poll is complete balls, hardly worth even looking at), or Survation's in particular?

They're not. Survation are fine. The Workington poll is tiny though with a massive amount of respondents 'undecided', and the Daily Mail's representation of it is a joke, but that's not Survation's fault.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:33 am

With Watson chucking it in yesterday as well, the huge void in the centre of UK politics is just getting bigger and bigger.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by TVC15 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:24 am

The polls have become like everything else - corrupt and commercialised.
Unfortunately I think they do have an influence on how some people decide to vote...which is why the parties continue to fund them as worthwhile.
All the party leaders love to quote a poll in their interviews - it’s their favourite opening gambit even if they have not got a hope in hell they will find some obscure statistic which points to them being on the rise.
Yes this election has become different for all kinds of unique reasons but we will still see the same guff we always see.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:57 am

Wouldn't bragging about how you are polling be more likely to motivate the supporters of their opponents to vote?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Mala591 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:59 am

No mention of immigration policy yet. Conservatives are going with an 'strong but fair' (their words) Australian style points based system.

Labour, Lib Dems and Greens don't seem to be worried about England becoming overpopulated and seem to be relaxed with an open door/free for all policy.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by tiger76 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:05 am

I know Ian Austin's a bit of a maverick,but to advise voters to vote Conservative is unprecedented,the Cons will leap on his comments.

Dudley North was a likely tory pick-up anyway,now it's nailed on.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50330007

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by fatboy47 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:10 am

tiger76 wrote:I know Ian Austin's a bit of a maverick,but to advise voters to vote Conservative is unprecedented,the Cons will leap on his comments.

Dudley North was a likely tory pick-up anyway,now it's nailed on.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50330007


A handfull of disgruntled rats will surface on all sides at this time....twas ever thus.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:13 am

I see the Tory party have now endorsed Nick Conrad who said women were partially to blame for being raped.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:17 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:They're not. Survation are fine. The Workington poll is tiny though with a massive amount of respondents 'undecided', and the Daily Mail's representation of it is a joke, but that's not Survation's fault.
Hmm. 22% undecided - quite high, yes. Also quite a lot 'would consider' voting Labour, if they haven't said they would in the poll. But the other way round, a huge number that answered 'Brexit' also said they 'would consider' Conservative.

There is the chance the data was fabricated, but leaving that chance to one side for now, I'm struggling to create a convincing case for believing Labour will win Workington based on these numbers. I tried looking for bookies odds, but no-one is offering them on Workington.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:19 am

Pro-remain alliance release the seats they will be standing down behind one remain candidate

https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1192385171141644290" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dpinsussex » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:19 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:There does appear to be some very opinionated posters on the right on here.

So, one question

Do you think Corbyn will have rich people shot?
Has had plenty of other crazy ideas :)

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:21 am

dpinsussex wrote:Has had plenty of other crazy ideas :)
No doubt, but the Conservative Minister who was asked this said

"I don't know"

You have to be smacked off your tits to think that is even remotely acceptable.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:23 am

If it be your will wrote:Hmm. 22% undecided - quite high, yes. Also quite a lot 'would consider' voting Labour, if they haven't said they would in the poll. But the other way round, a huge number that answered 'Brexit' also said they 'would consider' Conservative.

There is the chance the data was fabricated, but leaving that chance to one side for now, I'm struggling to create a convincing case for believing Labour will win Workington based on these numbers. I tried looking for bookies odds, but no-one is offering them on Workington.
You should read Lewis Goodhall's tweet about Workington man. Basically he thinks the Labour vote is so deep rooted it won't shift enough.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:28 am

dpinsussex wrote:Has had plenty of other crazy ideas :)
Like what?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Cryssys » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:53 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:There does appear to be some very opinionated posters on the right on here.

So, one question

Do you think Corbyn will have rich people shot?
Probably. He'll then eat their children and burn down their houses

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:55 am

Cryssys wrote:Probably. He'll then eat their children and burn down their houses
Stalin did that

So Corbyn will

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:57 am

Spijed wrote:You should read Lewis Goodhall's tweet about Workington man. Basically he thinks the Labour vote is so deep rooted it won't shift enough.
I did. That's what started this discussion. But that was just an opinion, one that the only poll data we have - however limited - directly contradicts. Leavers are so livid about being asked what they wanted only to be denied when they actually won, that it doesn't seem to matter how deep the roots are, they're dying.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:59 am

If it be your will wrote:I did. That's what started this discussion. But that was just an opinion, one that the only poll data we have - however limited - directly contradicts. Leavers are so livid about being asked what they wanted only to be denied when they actually won, that it doesn't seem to matter how deep the roots are, they're dying.
I'd await some polls to confirm that, but if all leavers think like that, then Farage is going to do really well.

As no one is predicting that he's going to, it does suggest that isn't the case.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:02 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'd await some polls to confirm that, but if all leavers think like that, then Farage is going to do really well.

As no one is predicting that he's going to, it does suggest that isn't the case.
That post makes absolutely no sense to me. Leavers are (nearly) all going Tory.

Actually, that's an exaggeration. Most leavers are going Tory. They're generally happy with Boris's deal.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:04 am

If it be your will wrote:That post makes absolutely no sense to me. Leavers are (nearly) all going Tory.
But they aren't if they are labour voters.

You might well be, with your long term lexit plan, but poll after poll after poll suggests that the majority of Labour voters are remainers*

*its obviously skewered on a more local level, but that is why the labour party has reached the decision it has on Brexit

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by brexit » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:07 am

Apologies if anyone has posted the link but
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
gives the conservatives a narrow win in burnley in the election.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:09 am

If it be your will wrote:I did. That's what started this discussion. But that was just an opinion, one that the only poll data we have - however limited - directly contradicts. Leavers are so livid about being asked what they wanted only to be denied when they actually won, that it doesn't seem to matter how deep the roots are, they're dying.
But the point is many Labour voters will NEVER vote Tory regardless of whether they want to leave the EU or not.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:10 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:But they aren't if they are labour voters.

You might well be, with your long term lexit plan, but poll after poll after poll suggests that the majority of Labour voters are remainers*

*its obviously skewered on a more local level, but that is why the labour party has reached the decision it has on Brexit
Look, forget my 'lexit plan', it's not relevant here. (Or anywhere anymore.)

But polls suggest less than half of the Labour 2017 vote that also voted leave will be voting Labour this time. We're talking vast numbers here - over 2 million, that are not voting Labour that did do last time.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by tiger76 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:11 am

If it be your will wrote:That post makes absolutely no sense to me. Leavers are (nearly) all going Tory.
If Boris can coalesce the leave vote around the tories,he's got a good chance of a majority,Farage should think very carefully before committing standing 600 candidates,in the event of the remain alliance proving successful,and the BP denying the tories seats,it's perfectly feasible another hung parliament will emerge,or even a pro-remain majority,i'm including Labour in the latter group as they're lukeworm to brexit at best,and in any 2nd referendum would campaign to remain.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:12 am

If it be your will wrote:That post makes absolutely no sense to me. Leavers are (nearly) all going Tory.

Actually, that's an exaggeration. Most leavers are going Tory. They're generally happy with Boris's deal.
I wouldn’t say happy, more resigned to that’s the best we are going to get & the length of time it’s dragged out some sense of relief.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:13 am

brexit wrote:Apologies if anyone has posted the link but
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
gives the conservatives a narrow win in burnley in the election.
Interesting site that

Lancaster and Fleetwood as a Lab hold

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Quickenthetempo » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:13 am

Labour might struggle if Royal Mail do the strikes that are planned.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:13 am

Spijed wrote:But the point is many Labour voters will NEVER vote Tory regardless of whether they want to leave the EU or not.
I know the point! I'm saying that the number holding this view seem to be fairly limited. They really are voting Tory this time. I know some of them personally!

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:15 am

If it be your will wrote:Look, forget my 'lexit plan', it's not relevant here. (Or anywhere anymore.)

But polls suggest less than half of the Labour 2017 vote that also voted leave will be voting Labour this time. We're talking vast numbers here - over 2 million, that are not voting Labour that did do last time.
But are they actually voting Tory though?

My sympathy with the areas of the country that were destroyed by the Tories would completely disappear if they voted Tory to be perfectly honest.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:16 am

If it be your will wrote:I know the point! I'm saying that the number holding this view seem to be fairly limited. They really are voting Tory this time. I know some of them personally!
So who were those people Lewis Goodhall was speaking to who were laughing at the phrase 'Workington man'?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Cryssys » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:19 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Stalin did that

So Corbyn will

Stands to reason don't it mate. Common sense really.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:21 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:But are they actually voting Tory though?

My sympathy with the areas of the country that were destroyed by the Tories would completely disappear if they voted Tory to be perfectly honest.
I don't know, but they're saying they will. Whether they actually do remains to be seen.

By the way, I'm not sure they want your sympathy. Or mine. Or anyone's.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:21 am

Cryssys wrote:Stands to reason don't it mate. Common sense really.
IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?

COS THATS WHAT WILL HAPPEN

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:22 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:But are they actually voting Tory though?

My sympathy with the areas of the country that were destroyed by the Tories would completely disappear if they voted Tory to be perfectly honest.
Most will I think, due to the lack of confidence in corbyn, some people will attribute the damage EU inflicted eg Lincolnshire etc & have a valid case & tory policy will be blameless in some people’s eyes.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:22 am

Spijed wrote:So who were those people Lewis Goodhall was speaking to who were laughing at the phrase 'Workington man'?
Different people to those Survation were speaking to, clearly.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:24 am

If it be your will wrote:I don't know, but they're saying they will. Whether they actually do remains to be seen.

By the way, I'm not sure they want your sympathy. Or mine. Or anyone's.
But if you look at that poll the Conservative vote hasn't gone up much, rather Labour dropping in favour of the Lib Dems.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by tiger76 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:27 am

Jakubclaret wrote:I wouldn’t say happy, more resigned to that’s the best we are going to get & the length of time it’s dragged out some sense of relief.
I can't speak for other brexiteers,but this sums up my feelings on the topic,this is the only viable brexit deal that means we leave the SM & CU,under Labour it would be BRINO or remain in any 2nd referendum,and that's no choice at all.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:29 am

Brexit doesn't finish under any circumstances unless its a Lib Dem win.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:29 am

Spijed wrote:But if you look at that poll the Conservative vote hasn't gone up much, rather Labour dropping in favour of the Lib Dems.
Are we looking at the same poll? The one that shows the Lib Dem vote falling to 5%?

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/stat ... 6828580865" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:32 am

If it be your will wrote:Are we looking at the same poll? The one that shows the Lib Dem vote falling to 5%?

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/stat ... 6828580865" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think he's talking nationally.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:35 am

tiger76 wrote:I can't speak for other brexiteers,but this sums up my feelings on the topic,this is the only viable brexit deal that means we leave the SM & CU,under Labour it would be BRINO or remain in any 2nd referendum,and that's no choice at all.
If me & you think it, plenty others will as well, some labour remainers will go Lib Dem’s to offset the Tory vote & labour leavers will go Tory, I honestly think labour will do really bad with potential internal divisions breaking out & defecting on this sole issue alone. Wait & see.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by tiger76 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:40 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Brexit doesn't finish under any circumstances unless its a Lib Dem win.
Lib Dems have no chance of forming the next government,even with tactical voting and electoral pacts the best they can hope for is 40-50 seats,and to hold the balance of power in the event of a hung parliament,now they've ruled out a formal coalition with both major parties,very wisely in my view,but i don't believe they've dismissed a confidence & supply arrangement,obviously a 2nd EU referendum would be a condition for any Lib Dem support,Labour could probably agree to those terms,the Conservatives less so.

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