General Election Is On
Re: General Election Is On
that overweight spokesman from the SNP is getting right on mi paps! why does he always have to be on English TV bleeting about independence. This isnt a referendum !
could we vote to get rid of the country full of moaning gits?
could we vote to get rid of the country full of moaning gits?
Re: General Election Is On
Look at the crowds he does get though:Spijed wrote:It's been pointed out that Boris Johnson hasn't had a single press conference.
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Re: General Election Is On
Perfectly sums up the Tory's in two simple picsaggi wrote:Look at the crowds he does get though:
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Re: General Election Is On
Labour's potential ppc for Birmingham Hall Green
A criminal defence solicitor who ranted online about shooting ‘Zionists’ and blowing up the ‘chosen people’ has been fined £25,000 for his conduct.
Majid Mahmood posted abusive messages twice on social media site Facebook in 2015 and 2016, with the comments captured using a screen-grab.
Mahmood, a solicitor for 12 years, said that ‘somebody needs to shoot all the Israeli Zionists dead then send their bodies to America as a present for Obama and his Zionist pals’.
When told by a member of the public his comments would be shared with the SRA, he responded: ‘Yeah feel free to report me.’
On the second occasion, Mahmood had referred to ‘chosen people’ and said it was a shame a plane carrying Israelis ‘didn’t blow up mid air’. This was posted on a Facebook page entitled ‘Israel is a War Criminal’s post’.
In a further response, he told a Facebook user ‘don’t threaten me go and **** yourself’. The comments appeared with his name in a hyperlink enabling the reader to navigate to a page showing his name, job title as ‘senior solicitor’ and displaying the name of his firm at the time, Luton-based City Law Chambers.
Mahmood, 40, denied being anti-Semitic and said he was entitled to freedom of speech. The matter was reported by the SRA to the police but no action had been taken. He had admitted as far back as April 2016 he had been ‘offensive’ and his comments were ’wholly inappropriate’. He maintained he had barrister friends who are Jewish.
He stressed the posts were taken down quickly after they were made and he deleted his entire Facebook account before the SRA investigation started. He was not acting as a solicitor at the time of the posts being made but in his private capacity. Mahmood said the SRA’s initial reaction was to deal with the matter informally until it was ‘leaned on’ by the Campaign Against Anti-Semitism group.
The Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal said the SRA had not proven the allegation of anti-Semitisim in relation to his first post, but it was proven in relation to the second. He had demonstrated a lack of integrity in relation to both.
Mahmood had shown a ‘worrying lack of self-discipline and common sense’, and inflamed and promoted a backlash of comment, the SDT said.
The tribunal judgment added: ‘The intemperate language used, the hatred manifested, including against anti-Zionists as well as Jewish people, and wishing them dead by graphic means were terrible ideas for a solicitor to be promoting.’
Mahmood, who now works for Hertfordshire firm Liberty Law Solicitors, was fined £25,000 and handed a one-year suspension from practice, suspended for 12 months. He will also pay around £9,500 in costs.
Following publication of the judgment, Gideon Falter, Chairman of Campaign Against Antisemitism, who was a witness at the hearing, said: 'Whilst we do not agree with the decision to allow Mr Mahmood, who has repeatedly made vile statements calling for death and destruction, to remain in practice as an officer of the court, we nonetheless welcome this decision.
’We commend the Solicitors Regulation Authority for doing the right thing in bringing this action, and we applaud the tribunal for sending this strong message that antisemitism within the legal profession will be severely punished.’
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/defen ... 86.article" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A criminal defence solicitor who ranted online about shooting ‘Zionists’ and blowing up the ‘chosen people’ has been fined £25,000 for his conduct.
Majid Mahmood posted abusive messages twice on social media site Facebook in 2015 and 2016, with the comments captured using a screen-grab.
Mahmood, a solicitor for 12 years, said that ‘somebody needs to shoot all the Israeli Zionists dead then send their bodies to America as a present for Obama and his Zionist pals’.
When told by a member of the public his comments would be shared with the SRA, he responded: ‘Yeah feel free to report me.’
On the second occasion, Mahmood had referred to ‘chosen people’ and said it was a shame a plane carrying Israelis ‘didn’t blow up mid air’. This was posted on a Facebook page entitled ‘Israel is a War Criminal’s post’.
In a further response, he told a Facebook user ‘don’t threaten me go and **** yourself’. The comments appeared with his name in a hyperlink enabling the reader to navigate to a page showing his name, job title as ‘senior solicitor’ and displaying the name of his firm at the time, Luton-based City Law Chambers.
Mahmood, 40, denied being anti-Semitic and said he was entitled to freedom of speech. The matter was reported by the SRA to the police but no action had been taken. He had admitted as far back as April 2016 he had been ‘offensive’ and his comments were ’wholly inappropriate’. He maintained he had barrister friends who are Jewish.
He stressed the posts were taken down quickly after they were made and he deleted his entire Facebook account before the SRA investigation started. He was not acting as a solicitor at the time of the posts being made but in his private capacity. Mahmood said the SRA’s initial reaction was to deal with the matter informally until it was ‘leaned on’ by the Campaign Against Anti-Semitism group.
The Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal said the SRA had not proven the allegation of anti-Semitisim in relation to his first post, but it was proven in relation to the second. He had demonstrated a lack of integrity in relation to both.
Mahmood had shown a ‘worrying lack of self-discipline and common sense’, and inflamed and promoted a backlash of comment, the SDT said.
The tribunal judgment added: ‘The intemperate language used, the hatred manifested, including against anti-Zionists as well as Jewish people, and wishing them dead by graphic means were terrible ideas for a solicitor to be promoting.’
Mahmood, who now works for Hertfordshire firm Liberty Law Solicitors, was fined £25,000 and handed a one-year suspension from practice, suspended for 12 months. He will also pay around £9,500 in costs.
Following publication of the judgment, Gideon Falter, Chairman of Campaign Against Antisemitism, who was a witness at the hearing, said: 'Whilst we do not agree with the decision to allow Mr Mahmood, who has repeatedly made vile statements calling for death and destruction, to remain in practice as an officer of the court, we nonetheless welcome this decision.
’We commend the Solicitors Regulation Authority for doing the right thing in bringing this action, and we applaud the tribunal for sending this strong message that antisemitism within the legal profession will be severely punished.’
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/defen ... 86.article" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: General Election Is On
That fat, turd like character from the SNP does my head in with his one issue independence ranting , makes me wish they’d just feck right off and sink ( much as I’d hate to see U.K. break up)
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Re: General Election Is On
Labour election candidate defended ‘Jewish final solution’ slur.
A Labour election candidate defended her chief campaigner after he wrote about a ‘Jewish final solution’, Jewish News can reveal.
Laura McAlpine, who is aiming to unseat Conservative Robert Halfon in Harlow in December’s election, supported top aide Brett Hawksbee in emails to colleagues, seen by Jewish News, despite one party official warning Hawksbee had “breached IHRA (the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of antisemitism) in almost every single way possible”.
Hawksbee blogged in September 2018: “The fear of many on the left is that the ideological successors of the bombers of the King David Hotel, the mass murderers who decimated Deir Yassin, would be quite happy to see a pogrom in Gaza and the West Bank, a Jewish final solution to the Palestine problem.”
McAlpine resisted calls from party officials to publicly condemn the remarks. One email circulated to Labour staffers reads: “She (McAlpine) isn’t happy with the first line (of the apology) because she doesn’t want to be disloyal to someone who ‘organises so much for her and who she is on the phone with three times a day’.”
The email continues: “She also echoed his view that the context somewhat excuses the remarks. I made it clear that her loyalty is now to the reputation of the Labour Party but not sure what impact that made.”
According to local newspaper Your Harlow and the local Conservative group, McAlpine did not make a public statement over Hawksbee, but a statement condemning him was prepared by the party, to be released “in case of future comms enquiries”.
The Jewish Labour Movement said: “It’s unacceptable that Laura McAlpine stood by Brett Hawksbee despite his antisemitic comments because of his usefulness to her shows how little she cares about fighting racism.”
McAlpine’s Conservative rival Halfon said: “It’s incredibly sad that the virus of antisemitism in the Labour Party has reached our town of Harlow which is a kind, decent and tolerant place and has a strong and proud Jewish community and synagogue. It’s hard to believe that the Labour Party is being investigated for institutional antisemitism by the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. But given what has allegedly happened with the Harlow Labour Party and candidate, I think people will understand why this is the case.”
Hawksbee, who since apologised, was pictured this week seated in the front row of a meeting in Harlow, alongside party leader Jeremy Corbyn and shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer.
The activist has been a vocal supporter of Chris Williamson, who resigned from the party this week after being banned from standing in the election.
The Labour Party and Harlow Constituency Labour Party have been approached for comment.
A Labour election candidate defended her chief campaigner after he wrote about a ‘Jewish final solution’, Jewish News can reveal.
Laura McAlpine, who is aiming to unseat Conservative Robert Halfon in Harlow in December’s election, supported top aide Brett Hawksbee in emails to colleagues, seen by Jewish News, despite one party official warning Hawksbee had “breached IHRA (the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of antisemitism) in almost every single way possible”.
Hawksbee blogged in September 2018: “The fear of many on the left is that the ideological successors of the bombers of the King David Hotel, the mass murderers who decimated Deir Yassin, would be quite happy to see a pogrom in Gaza and the West Bank, a Jewish final solution to the Palestine problem.”
McAlpine resisted calls from party officials to publicly condemn the remarks. One email circulated to Labour staffers reads: “She (McAlpine) isn’t happy with the first line (of the apology) because she doesn’t want to be disloyal to someone who ‘organises so much for her and who she is on the phone with three times a day’.”
The email continues: “She also echoed his view that the context somewhat excuses the remarks. I made it clear that her loyalty is now to the reputation of the Labour Party but not sure what impact that made.”
According to local newspaper Your Harlow and the local Conservative group, McAlpine did not make a public statement over Hawksbee, but a statement condemning him was prepared by the party, to be released “in case of future comms enquiries”.
The Jewish Labour Movement said: “It’s unacceptable that Laura McAlpine stood by Brett Hawksbee despite his antisemitic comments because of his usefulness to her shows how little she cares about fighting racism.”
McAlpine’s Conservative rival Halfon said: “It’s incredibly sad that the virus of antisemitism in the Labour Party has reached our town of Harlow which is a kind, decent and tolerant place and has a strong and proud Jewish community and synagogue. It’s hard to believe that the Labour Party is being investigated for institutional antisemitism by the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. But given what has allegedly happened with the Harlow Labour Party and candidate, I think people will understand why this is the case.”
Hawksbee, who since apologised, was pictured this week seated in the front row of a meeting in Harlow, alongside party leader Jeremy Corbyn and shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer.
The activist has been a vocal supporter of Chris Williamson, who resigned from the party this week after being banned from standing in the election.
The Labour Party and Harlow Constituency Labour Party have been approached for comment.
Re: General Election Is On
Well Greenmile, your attempts to be clever with me haven't worked out well for you to date, but God loves a trier!Greenmile wrote:This may seem to be a bit of a non-sequitur, but what are your views on the trans community?
You seem to think that someone can self-identify as a Marxist even if it isn’t backed up by their actions and policies, so presumably you’re all for someone self-identifying as a woman / man even if it isn’t backed up by their genitalia.
I take it you are with Erasmus on John Mcdonnell. In case I have misread you, can you clarify whether I should vote for John Mcdonnell because he is a Marxist or should I vote for him despite the fact that he is too thick to realise that he is not a Marxist? Which is it?
This user liked this post: burnleymik
Re: General Election Is On
McDonnell has spoken at length in the last couple of days on his political ideals and while he identified as a Marxist in the past he’s saying he’s a socialist these days bandroid wrote:Well Greenmile, your attempts to be clever with me haven't worked out well for you to date, but God loves a trier!
I take it you are with Erasmus on John Mcdonnell. In case I have misread you, can you clarify whether I should vote for John Mcdonnell because he is a Marxist or should I vote for him despite the fact that he is too thick to realise that he is not a Marxist? Which is it?
Re: General Election Is On
You should vote for him (or not) on the basis of his stated policies, and not what you’ve read about him in the Daily Mail.android wrote:Well Greenmile, your attempts to be clever with me haven't worked out well for you to date, but God loves a trier!
I take it you are with Erasmus on John Mcdonnell. In case I have misread you, can you clarify whether I should vote for John Mcdonnell because he is a Marxist or should I vote for him despite the fact that he is too thick to realise that he is not a Marxist? Which is it?
Re: General Election Is On
AndyClaret wrote: "I tend not to call the offence police, it's a bit snowflakey."AndyClaret wrote:Labour election candidate defended ‘Jewish final solution’ slur.
A Labour election candidate defended her chief campaigner after he wrote about a ‘Jewish final solution’, Jewish News can reveal.
Laura McAlpine, who is aiming to unseat Conservative Robert Halfon in Harlow in December’s election, supported top aide Brett Hawksbee in emails to colleagues, seen by Jewish News, despite one party official warning Hawksbee had “breached IHRA (the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of antisemitism) in almost every single way possible”.
Hawksbee blogged in September 2018: “The fear of many on the left is that the ideological successors of the bombers of the King David Hotel, the mass murderers who decimated Deir Yassin, would be quite happy to see a pogrom in Gaza and the West Bank, a Jewish final solution to the Palestine problem.”
McAlpine resisted calls from party officials to publicly condemn the remarks. One email circulated to Labour staffers reads: “She (McAlpine) isn’t happy with the first line (of the apology) because she doesn’t want to be disloyal to someone who ‘organises so much for her and who she is on the phone with three times a day’.”
The email continues: “She also echoed his view that the context somewhat excuses the remarks. I made it clear that her loyalty is now to the reputation of the Labour Party but not sure what impact that made.”
According to local newspaper Your Harlow and the local Conservative group, McAlpine did not make a public statement over Hawksbee, but a statement condemning him was prepared by the party, to be released “in case of future comms enquiries”.
The Jewish Labour Movement said: “It’s unacceptable that Laura McAlpine stood by Brett Hawksbee despite his antisemitic comments because of his usefulness to her shows how little she cares about fighting racism.”
McAlpine’s Conservative rival Halfon said: “It’s incredibly sad that the virus of antisemitism in the Labour Party has reached our town of Harlow which is a kind, decent and tolerant place and has a strong and proud Jewish community and synagogue. It’s hard to believe that the Labour Party is being investigated for institutional antisemitism by the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. But given what has allegedly happened with the Harlow Labour Party and candidate, I think people will understand why this is the case.”
Hawksbee, who since apologised, was pictured this week seated in the front row of a meeting in Harlow, alongside party leader Jeremy Corbyn and shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer.
The activist has been a vocal supporter of Chris Williamson, who resigned from the party this week after being banned from standing in the election.
The Labour Party and Harlow Constituency Labour Party have been approached for comment.
Snowflake
This user liked this post: Greenmile
Re: General Election Is On
It was always just a matter of time before you could use that one.Cryssys wrote:AndyClaret wrote: "I tend not to call the offence police, it's a bit snowflakey."
Snowflake
Re: General Election Is On
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. That is absolutely classic and does not surprise me at all. He really is within a sniff of power. How old is Mcdonnell? A lifelong Marxist has suddenly decided that does not play well with the electorate and reclassifies himself as a humble socialist. It's also why he most sincerely apologised for his 2003 bombs and bullets IRA comments in...when...2015! And people are actually falling for this stuff.martin_p wrote:McDonnell has spoken at length in the last couple of days on his political ideals and while he identified as a Marxist in the past he’s saying he’s a socialist these days b
Come on Martin you are not that gullible surely.
"I like to be honest with people, I'm a Marxist"
Re: General Election Is On
"I like to be honest with people, I'm a Marxist" Daily Mail is irrelevant.Greenmile wrote:You should vote for him (or not) on the basis of his stated policies, and not what you’ve read about him in the Daily Mail.
Re: General Election Is On
You don’t seem to be applying the same standards to any other politician. Garage’s support for a Norway type deal, JRM saying there’d need to be another referendum, Boris Johnson saying we’d be mad to leave the single market.android wrote:Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. That is absolutely classic and does not surprise me at all. He really is within a sniff of power. How old is Mcdonnell? A lifelong Marxist has suddenly decided that does not play well with the electorate and reclassifies himself as a humble socialist. It's also why he most sincerely apologised for his 2003 bombs and bullets IRA comments in...when...2015! And people are actually falling for this stuff.
Come on Martin you are not that gullible surely.
"I like to be honest with people, I'm a Marxist"
Re: General Election Is On
So it’s just self-identification you care about. I presume you’re out fighting for trans rights every day then.android wrote:"I like to be honest with people, I'm a Marxist" Daily Mail is irrelevant.
Edit - I presume you also think the Nazis were socialist, and the DPRK is democratic.
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Re: General Election Is On
Garage? He's more of an outdoor toilet.martin_p wrote:You don’t seem to be applying the same standards to any other politician. Garage’s support for a Norway type deal, JRM saying there’d need to be another referendum, Boris Johnson saying we’d be mad to leave the single market.
Re: General Election Is On
I'm not talking about Brexit /EU! I don't think many politicians went into politics motivated by the precise nature of our relationship with the EU (Farage being an obvious exception), which has been hugely overblown by Brexit and will settle down in due course (too long a course but there we are).martin_p wrote:You don’t seem to be applying the same standards to any other politician. Garage’s support for a Norway type deal, JRM saying there’d need to be another referendum, Boris Johnson saying we’d be mad to leave the single market.
Johnson and all Conservative MPs and the vast majority of Labour MPs are lifelong supporters of our current system of government - capitalism with a social conscience. Mcdonnell is a lifelong Marxist and is close to being made Chancellor of the Exchequer! The cuddly Uncle John reinvention is an act.
Re: General Election Is On
I care that John Mcdonnell is a Marxist. Just how thick do you think he is to wrongly call himself a Marxist?Greenmile wrote:So it’s just self-identification you care about. I presume you’re out fighting for trans rights every day then.
Edit - I presume you also think the Nazis were socialist, and the DPRK is democratic.
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Re: General Election Is On
Possibly the most ludicrous post I have ever read on hereGreenmile wrote:So it’s just self-identification you care about. I presume you’re out fighting for trans rights every day then.
Edit - I presume you also think the Nazis were socialist, and the DPRK is democratic.
These 2 users liked this post: Greenmile android
Re: General Election Is On
Tell me about his Marxist policies then.android wrote:I care that John Mcdonnell is a Marxist. Just how thick do you think he is to wrongly call himself a Marxist?
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Re: General Election Is On
AndyClaret wrote:North West poll
If this applied evenly across Burnley, there would be less than 2,000 votes between Labour, Conservative and Lib Dems ....
Re: General Election Is On
Why can't you answer my question?Greenmile wrote:Tell me about his Marxist policies then.
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Re: General Election Is On
Just reporting uncomfortable truths.Cryssys wrote:AndyClaret wrote: "I tend not to call the offence police, it's a bit snowflakey."
Snowflake
Re: General Election Is On
I see Boris Johnson has lied about the trade deal he negotiated saying no-one in Northern Ireland will ever have to fill in a single piece of paperwork.
Re: General Election Is On
AndyClaret wrote:Just reporting uncomfortable truths.
Yeah, right. Keep telling yourself that.
Re: General Election Is On
Did Johnson lie or does he simply not have a clue what he is talking about?Spijed wrote:I see Boris Johnson has lied about the trade deal he negotiated saying no-one in Northern Ireland will ever have to fill in a single piece of paperwork.
Re: General Election Is On
Android, I never found a verification for Macdonnell's statement that he was a Marxist. Where is it from? I did find a quote where he was speaking about Milne's joining the Labour Party. He said, 'He used to be a communist, but we converted him to democratic socialism.' So it is not quite as clear cut as you are trying to make out.
I think the point would be that you admitted that you didn't fully understand what Marxism is because your books on economics are gathering dust on the shelf. Something like that. Well the fact is that Labour's policies and political activities are not Marxist and if you dust your old books off and read them, you will see very clearly that this is the case.
Another point I would make, and this is why you need to provide context for your quotations, is that being a Marxist or not a Marxist is never abolute distinction. If you study your books, you will see that some of Marx's political and economic analysis holds up to scrutiny, whilst in other areas his ideas are deeply flawed. Well, that is my view and I might have taken the time to outline those flaws but I think you said you weren't interested in discussions of political and economic theory.
The really important point though is that just throwing out pejorative labels that you don't understand removes the possibility of any serious discussion of policies. What is it really that you disagree with in Labour policies? I can see the argument that Labour's spending plans might negatively affect the wider economy and that would be a valid line of discussion to follow. The counter-argument would be that this spending will have a significant and positive effect on people's lives, as has been said in the thread on the NHS. I don't particularly like Corbyn, and I am seriously averse to a lot of those who are his most ardent supporters, but at the same time I think this is a gamble with the economy that is worthwhile. In contrast to the gamble with the economy that Brexit represents, which will bring no tangible benefits to people.
I think the point would be that you admitted that you didn't fully understand what Marxism is because your books on economics are gathering dust on the shelf. Something like that. Well the fact is that Labour's policies and political activities are not Marxist and if you dust your old books off and read them, you will see very clearly that this is the case.
Another point I would make, and this is why you need to provide context for your quotations, is that being a Marxist or not a Marxist is never abolute distinction. If you study your books, you will see that some of Marx's political and economic analysis holds up to scrutiny, whilst in other areas his ideas are deeply flawed. Well, that is my view and I might have taken the time to outline those flaws but I think you said you weren't interested in discussions of political and economic theory.
The really important point though is that just throwing out pejorative labels that you don't understand removes the possibility of any serious discussion of policies. What is it really that you disagree with in Labour policies? I can see the argument that Labour's spending plans might negatively affect the wider economy and that would be a valid line of discussion to follow. The counter-argument would be that this spending will have a significant and positive effect on people's lives, as has been said in the thread on the NHS. I don't particularly like Corbyn, and I am seriously averse to a lot of those who are his most ardent supporters, but at the same time I think this is a gamble with the economy that is worthwhile. In contrast to the gamble with the economy that Brexit represents, which will bring no tangible benefits to people.
This user liked this post: Greenmile
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Re: General Election Is On
Hi martin, greenmile and others on here. It's very easy to google "Marxism v socialism" - and you can even add "communism." When you take a look at these definitions you will see that there's "not much difference." JMcD can be a Marxist and a socialist - and aspiring to achieving communism. It's not worth falling out over the differences between these political systems.martin_p wrote:McDonnell has spoken at length in the last couple of days on his political ideals and while he identified as a Marxist in the past he’s saying he’s a socialist these days b
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Re: General Election Is On
One thing’s for sure, anyone choosing to have socialism, marxism or communism has to be asked to foot the bill if it turns out to need bailing out afterwards.
Those who voted for other parties aren’t going to be in the mood to give up a large chunk of their income or savings to help out - it will lead to austerity on steroids for the working class. It doesn’t even bear thinking about. I’m tempted to want to give those daft people what they wish for but I can’t, I’m too compassionate. For their sake I really hope Johnson wins.
Those who voted for other parties aren’t going to be in the mood to give up a large chunk of their income or savings to help out - it will lead to austerity on steroids for the working class. It doesn’t even bear thinking about. I’m tempted to want to give those daft people what they wish for but I can’t, I’m too compassionate. For their sake I really hope Johnson wins.
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Re: General Election Is On
The only people who should be voting for Labour at present time are descendants from the Indian sub-continent and absolute lunatics.
Re: General Election Is On
One of the big problems with any form of communism, or the plans proposed by some of the wilder elements of the Labour party (including Corbyn), is what happens after Mike Ashley (Corbyn's pet target) has his wealth taken off him. A large part of the reason he is so rich is that he owns a lot of companies. And those companies employ 80,000 people. What happens to the people?
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Re: General Election Is On
Hi Lancs, just seen this, busy today. Interesting post.Lancasterclaret wrote:Jesus
Get a good deal and I'm right behind it.
We haven't got a good deal, so I'm not.
Unlike people like you, I look at stuff from the other side and I'm bright enough and interested enough to do some checking of stuff to see if its good or not. This deal is better than no-deal, but it leaves us with an almost certain no-deal in 2020. I've been as consistent in my opposition to a No Deal as you are in not posting polls that don't back up what you want to believe.
Quick question for you - if this election doesn't result in a Conservative Government, are you still going to ignore the election results of 2017 and 2019 in a parliamentary democracy because of an advisory referendum in 2016?
And if we have a majority government on Dec 13th, then that government have a mandate to do what it wants. I might not like what it does, but it has a democratic mandate, and thats is very important in a parliamentary democracy.
You say it isn’t a good deal, but you said earlier this year you would reluctantly vote for May’s deal, rightly giving me stick for not making up my mind about the backstop. Johnson’s deal is very similar, minus the backstop - what has changed so heavily to make you say you’re not behind it? Is it the new leader you are not behind, rather than the new deal?
On another note, I know your question was aimed at Andy, but I would answer “yes - if (say) Labour win and there is a second referendum, with Remain and as yet unnegotiated Remain minus as the options, I would accept that”.
If the UK chooses to stay in the EU under a marxist government, good luck to them. Not saying I would hang around for it, but I would respect the choice,
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Re: General Election Is On
This question WAS addressed to me, and I would agree that one is not the other (I see this one has run and run on here today). Marxism has a total disdain for the state because it is believed to only help the bourgeois. I don’t think Corbyn per se is a Marxist, but McDonnell is, and a Corbyn government with him as Chancellor would essentially be a Marxist government, a 21st century British version of it.Lancasterclaret wrote:I have to ask (as I'm approaching that age)
Does it just click in over night that "socialist" means "Marxist"?
It doesn't matter what we call it, the effect on people will be the same.
Re: General Election Is On
TIL Marxism, socialism and communism are interchangeable terms.
Re: General Election Is On
Look. NOBODY in Burnley should vote Labour. It will be total economic disaster. If you want to remain in the EU vote Lib Dem if you want to leave vote Conservative. Bloody hell, the economic future of our country is on the line. Your children and grandchildren's future is hanging on a thread. Get real, we are on the edge of a Marxist precipice don't be distracted by fake news. You know what to do on Dec 12th so just do it!
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Re: General Election Is On
Don't be distracted by fake news = hook line & sinker for a few on here, I should imagine by this stage most people will have a fairly certain idea where to position the X in the box on the 12th, you'll always get a few indecisive unsure waiting to be swayed by a convincing party.Mala591 wrote:Look. NOBODY in Burnley should vote Labour. It will be total economic disaster. If you want to remain in the EU vote Lib Dem if you want to leave vote Conservative. Bloody hell, the economic future of our country is on the line. Your children and grandchildren's future is hanging on a thread. Get real, we are on the edge of a Marxist precipice don't be distracted by fake news. You know what to do on Dec 12th so just do it!
Re: General Election Is On
Never was so much owed by so many to adeola friday.Mala591 wrote:Look. NOBODY in Burnley should vote Labour. It will be total economic disaster. If you want to remain in the EU vote Lib Dem if you want to leave vote Conservative. Bloody hell, the economic future of our country is on the line. Your children and grandchildren's future is hanging on a thread. Get real, we are on the edge of a Marxist precipice don't be distracted by fake news. You know what to do on Dec 12th so just do it!
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Re: General Election Is On
I'm just holding up a mirror, it's not my fault you don't like what you see.Cryssys wrote:Yeah, right. Keep telling yourself that.
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Re: General Election Is On
At least she admits claiming for the wreath, whereas Jezza "was present but not involved" in laying one for terrorists.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... enses.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: General Election Is On
I know it's early days in the campaign, but is that really the best the mail can come up with? An MP claiming a £17 wreath on expenses? Desperate stuff.AndyClaret wrote:At least she admits claiming for the wreath, whereas Jezza "was present but not involved" in laying one for terrorists.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... enses.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: General Election Is On
Funny how the economic future of the country has become so important all of a sudden.Mala591 wrote:Look. NOBODY in Burnley should vote Labour. It will be total economic disaster. If you want to remain in the EU vote Lib Dem if you want to leave vote Conservative. Bloody hell, the economic future of our country is on the line. Your children and grandchildren's future is hanging on a thread. Get real, we are on the edge of a Marxist precipice don't be distracted by fake news. You know what to do on Dec 12th so just do it!
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Re: General Election Is On
Good grief.Mala591 wrote:Look. NOBODY in Burnley should vote Labour. It will be total economic disaster. If you want to remain in the EU vote Lib Dem if you want to leave vote Conservative. Bloody hell, the economic future of our country is on the line. Your children and grandchildren's future is hanging on a thread. Get real, we are on the edge of a Marxist precipice don't be distracted by fake news. You know what to do on Dec 12th so just do it!
Re: General Election Is On
Why is the economy suddenly so important to Brexiteers. You’ve spent the last couple of years telling us that the economic disaster that may come from Brexit is unimportant because it’s about more than that.Mala591 wrote:Look. NOBODY in Burnley should vote Labour. It will be total economic disaster. If you want to remain in the EU vote Lib Dem if you want to leave vote Conservative. Bloody hell, the economic future of our country is on the line. Your children and grandchildren's future is hanging on a thread. Get real, we are on the edge of a Marxist precipice don't be distracted by fake news. You know what to do on Dec 12th so just do it!
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Re: General Election Is On
Yeh I thought an economic downturn was just the price we had to pay for getting our sovereignty back?martin_p wrote:Why is the economy suddenly so important to Brexiteers. You’ve spent the last couple of years telling us that the economic disaster that may come from Brexit is unimportant because it’s about more than that.
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Re: General Election Is On
...you've changed my mindMala591 wrote:Look. NOBODY in Burnley should vote Labour. It will be total economic disaster. If you want to remain in the EU vote Lib Dem if you want to leave vote Conservative. Bloody hell, the economic future of our country is on the line. Your children and grandchildren's future is hanging on a thread. Get real, we are on the edge of a Marxist precipice don't be distracted by fake news. You know what to do on Dec 12th so just do it!
about everything...I see it all so clearly now.
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Re: General Election Is On
I don't what category to put this post into, but its wins all of them.CrosspoolClarets wrote:One thing’s for sure, anyone choosing to have socialism, marxism or communism has to be asked to foot the bill if it turns out to need bailing out afterwards.
Those who voted for other parties aren’t going to be in the mood to give up a large chunk of their income or savings to help out - it will lead to austerity on steroids for the working class. It doesn’t even bear thinking about. I’m tempted to want to give those daft people what they wish for but I can’t, I’m too compassionate. For their sake I really hope Johnson wins.
I'd shut down the messageboard now.
No one will ever be able to match that.
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Re: General Election Is On
Whatever he has had to drink or snort before typing that needs to be shared!!!Lancasterclaret wrote:I don't what category to put this post into, but its wins all of them.
I'd shut down the messageboard now.
No one will ever be able to match that.
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Re: General Election Is On
CrosspoolClarets wrote:One thing’s for sure, anyone choosing to have socialism, marxism or communism has to be asked to foot the bill if it turns out to need bailing out afterwards.
Those who voted for other parties aren’t going to be in the mood to give up a large chunk of their income or savings to help out - it will lead to austerity on steroids for the working class. It doesn’t even bear thinking about. I’m tempted to want to give those daft people what they wish for but I can’t, I’m too compassionate. For their sake I really hope Johnson wins.
don't do drugs kids.
Re: General Election Is On
To Paul Waine. Paul, there is a huge difference between socialism and communism, hence Marx's strident condemnation of the Social Democratic movement and the intense conflict between the Communist Party and the the Social Democratic Party in Germany in the 1920s and early 1930s. You might need to go a step beyond Google to get a grasp of those distinctions.
It is also to be recognised that socialism is not a fixed entity but is implemented to varying degrees. It is not a case of socialism or non-socialism but rather the degree of socialism a democratic government chooses to implement. Clement Attlee's government was socialist to a considerable degree, Tony Blair's government was socialist to a lesser degree. When I lived in the USA, I was often told that state-funded healthcare as in the NHS was a socialist measure.
Just a titbit. One valuable insight provided by Marx's analysis is that power in a society rests primarily with the economic system rather than the political system. This is why, in his view, democracy was ineffective in bringing about genuine social change and any real upliftment in the condition of the proletariat. Democratic Socialism, again in his view, offered a false solution because it did not remove power from the hands of the owners of the means of production. Because the Labour Party continues to operate within democratic institutions, it is an error to refer to it as 'Marxist'. In fact, Karl Marx would almost certainly have regarded it as a thoroughly reprehensible political movement.
It is also to be recognised that socialism is not a fixed entity but is implemented to varying degrees. It is not a case of socialism or non-socialism but rather the degree of socialism a democratic government chooses to implement. Clement Attlee's government was socialist to a considerable degree, Tony Blair's government was socialist to a lesser degree. When I lived in the USA, I was often told that state-funded healthcare as in the NHS was a socialist measure.
Just a titbit. One valuable insight provided by Marx's analysis is that power in a society rests primarily with the economic system rather than the political system. This is why, in his view, democracy was ineffective in bringing about genuine social change and any real upliftment in the condition of the proletariat. Democratic Socialism, again in his view, offered a false solution because it did not remove power from the hands of the owners of the means of production. Because the Labour Party continues to operate within democratic institutions, it is an error to refer to it as 'Marxist'. In fact, Karl Marx would almost certainly have regarded it as a thoroughly reprehensible political movement.
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