General Election Is On

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Spiral
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:53 pm

There's quite a funny, but also deadly serious story that Johnson (allegedly, etc etc etc, yadda yadda yadda), while holding public office, once flew out on an easyjet flight, leaving his own designated Met police security unit back in London, to the private Italian villa of Evgeny Lebedev - the owner of the Evening Standard newspaper of which former chancellor George Osborne is editor; the son of a former KGB Russian oligarch with ties to Putin (and as anyone who knows anything about Russia knows, the country operates more as a mafia ring than as a democracy) - to hold a 'social gathering' alongside other guests including Katie Price (yes, the glamour model), who, at a toast, and after getting pished on champagne, whipped out her tits turning to face Boris Johnson. Absolute LAD! amarite? Oh, and possibly kompromat, which might explain some of the redactions rumoured to be in the ISC report, but apparently it's a 'national security concern', a contested claim, and probably bogus, but I guess we'll never know.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:04 pm

aggi wrote:I have to agree with Ringo here, there's a lot of mingling between Brexit and the right wing and they can be viewed separately. I suspect in part it's due to how Brexit and immigration have been linked.

Obviously it's not possible to be left leaning and vote for a party headed by Johnson or Farage as some such as ClaretAndy seem to be planning but that's a different matter.
Immigration isn't a straightforward left v right issue either. There is, and always has been, a raging debate on the left as to how to approach immigration.

Here's Bernie Sanders, for instance: Open borders is a Koch Brothers policy... a right wing policy... it would make everyone in America poorer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-k6qOfXz0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or, rather more coarsely, George Galloway's take: Free movement is a capitalist's wet dream

Now racism, that's a bit more of a left v right thing. But that's a completely different concept altogether.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:29 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Only one question to you reality deniers lads

Why did the Conservative Government not release the report if its clear that it shows Russia backs Corbyn?

Can I ask cause I struggle with this.

How does Russia sway voters.

Have they changed your vote Lancs???

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:36 pm

Spiral wrote:Farage won't be releasing a manifesto. The first excuse for not having a manifesto: "we're six weeks old," an excuse repeated verbatim by Farage, BXP MEPs/prospective MEPs and affiliates well into the seventh, eighth, and ninth week of its existence, has been downgraded to "that was a joke." Farage, apparently incapable of sincerity or coherence, says manifestos 'equate to a lie', and in doing what any conman worth his salt would do, capturing the language used to highlight his obvious pitfalls (of which there are many) and turning it against journalists and his critics, seems to be insulting the intelligence of voters. Are people truly willing to publicly admit support for this party, in spite of this? For your own good, never rationalise away a person's behaviours. Don't be a mug, take their words and actions at face value. Treat Farage as you would a shifty car salesman and you'll be better insulated from his bull$hit. Otherwise, you're allowing yourself to become a willing and disposable means to his ambition and wealth.

Well there are some commitments if you care to look for them.

But more are needed, that for sure.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:39 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Well there are some commitments if you care to look for them.

But more are needed, that for sure.
Lowbank, on a separate issue. What is the word on the street regarding whether the Brexit party will have candidates in the constituencies where the Conservatives are still asking them to stand down?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:47 pm

Spijed wrote:Lowbank, on a separate issue. What is the word on the street regarding whether the Brexit party will have candidates in the constituencies where the Conservatives are still asking them to stand down?
Candidates have been registering and paying deposits and will be doing tomorrow.

Once registered your on the ballot paper , no turning back.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:59 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Candidates have been registering and paying deposits and will be doing tomorrow.

Once registered your on the ballot paper , no turning back.
I didn't realise that once you get on the ballot paper the only way to remove yourself from it is to die!

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:29 pm

Spijed wrote:I didn't realise that once you get on the ballot paper the only way to remove yourself from it is to die!

Even if you died you would still be on the ballot paper I think, there might be few days you could get it changed.

You must understand it takes time to get everything sorted.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:31 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Can I ask cause I struggle with this.

How does Russia sway voters.

Have they changed your vote Lancs???
I can say one or two things on this. Firstly, you never actually tell a person how to vote. That won't work, and they actually resent the effrontery and push back. The science and psychology behind decision making is fascinating and to put it so reductively to the point of crudeness, you find ways of appealing to the human subconscious (literally nobody has control over their subconscious, otherwise it wouldn't be a subconscious) and the most effective way to push those buttons is by provoking the more primal anxieties such as territorial control, one's agency as a free individual, fear of death. Nobody likes to feel powerless.

Secondly, you don't need to bend everyone to your will, just enough of a population for an idea to take hold, which in the case of Brexit was a tiny slither of the population. You mine data and push the buttons of folks in their respective bubbles. This isn't even sophisticated; social media algorithms filter content for users, doing the targeting for you, but in the case of facebook in particular, users are micro-targeted, with each 'faction', so to speak, absorbing a completely different reality, but similar reality bubbles take form across many other social media platforms. So you now know you can sow ideas in the minds of a small percentage of the more neurotically-inclined members of a population, those with real, honest and totally legitimate anxieties; feed their insecurity them provide a 'solution'. You've identified a crack, so you try to widen it. This is where technology comes into play. The Russians in particular use botfarms - thousands upon thousands of fictitious social media accounts spreading a political message though memes and half-truths which are shared ad infinitum. Amplification is the key. In the case of Brexit, amplify and proliferate pro-Brexit AND pro-EU messages. Amplify division, frame that divisions as being existential, now you've got people at each others' throats. The policy disagreement was already there on a theoretical level, but in the way a radical Islamist might indoctrinate a prisoner who feels outcast, you fuel their baser instincts and let them come to their own conclusions before provoking them to an action once they're on-board. It's why a strongly formed worldview is essential to one's own well-being, regardless of one's political opinions: nobody is totally immune to provocation, but one can at least build better defences against it.

Put simply: Find a point of disagreement, amplify it on social media, poison it, watch that disagreement metastasise into outright hatred. It only needs a slither of the population for this to become mainstream. The minute a contentious claim from the fringe is disputed in the mainstream, it enters the public discourse. Retreating to each others' respective camps, people then find a way to engage - positively or negatively - with the claim. We're now all in a mess shouting at each other about IS fighters invading Britain via Turkey or something. It doesn't feel like interference because we're arguing among ourselves, but that seed was planted by nefarious forces.

It's a bit of a mischaracterisation to say the Russians specifically back Trump/Farage/Brexit, when in actual truth their aim is to back any force which destabilises the current order - an order in which Russia saw a key buffer country in Ukraine move towards the West's sphere of influence and the Crimea annexation met with crippling sanctions which hurt Russia's economy and Putin's popularity.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:34 pm

Spiral wrote:I can say one or two things on this. Firstly, you never actually tell a person how to vote. That won't work, and they actually resent the effrontery and push back. The science and psychology behind decision making is fascinating and to put it so reductively to the point of crudeness, you find ways of appealing to the human subconscious (literally nobody has control over their subconscious, otherwise it wouldn't be a subconscious) and the most effective way to push those buttons is by provoking the more primal anxieties such as territorial control, one's agency as a free individual, fear of death. Nobody likes to feel powerless.

Secondly, you don't need to bend everyone to your will, just enough of a population for an idea to take hold, which in the case of Brexit was a tiny slither of the population. You mine data and push the buttons of folks in their respective bubbles. This isn't even sophisticated; social media algorithms filter content for users, doing the targeting for you, but in the case of facebook in particular, users are micro-targeted, with each 'faction', so to speak, absorbing a completely different reality, but similar reality bubbles take form across many other social media platforms. So you now know you can sow ideas in the minds of a small percentage of the more neurotically-inclined members of a population, those with real, honest and totally legitimate anxieties; feed their insecurity them provide a 'solution'. You've identified a crack, so you try to widen it. This is where technology comes into play. The Russians in particular use botfarms - thousands upon thousands of fictitious social media accounts spreading a political message though memes and half-truths which are shared ad infinitum. Amplification is the key. In the case of Brexit, amplify and proliferate pro-Brexit AND pro-EU messages. Amplify division, frame that divisions as being existential, now you've got people at each others' throats. The policy disagreement was already there on a theoretical level, but in the way a radical Islamist might indoctrinate a prisoner who feels outcast, you fuel their baser instincts and let them come to their own conclusions before provoking them to an action once they're on-board. It's why a strongly formed worldview is essential to one's own well-being, regardless of one's political opinions: nobody is totally immune to provocation, but one can at least build better defences against it.

Put simply: Find a point of disagreement, amplify it on social media, poison it, watch that disagreement metastasise into outright hatred. It only needs a slither of the population for this to become mainstream. The minute a contentious claim from the fringe is disputed in the mainstream, it enters the public discourse. Retreating to each others' respective camps, people then find a way to engage - positively or negatively - with the claim. We're now all in a mess shouting at each other about IS fighters invading Britain via Turkey or something. It doesn't feel like interference because we're arguing among ourselves, but that seed was planted by nefarious forces.

It's a bit of a mischaracterisation to say the Russians specifically back Trump/Farage/Brexit, when in actual truth their aim is to back any force which destabilises the current order - an order in which Russia saw a key buffer country in Ukraine move towards the West's sphere of influence and the Crimea annexation met with crippling sanctions which hurt Russia's economy and Putin's popularity.
Well you did ask :lol:
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:35 pm

Did anyone see the tory PPB just before 7.00 this evening? Only caught a bit of it but it was the most excruciating couple of minutes of telly I've ever seen.

If you missed it, it was Boris having an "impromptu" chat with someone as they walked down the corridor to make a brew. Boris's chat was about as natural as Pamela Andrson's tits.

My favourite bit:

Lackey: "who is your favourite band?"
Boris: "ummmmm errrrrrr mumble mumble The Clash"

Makes Cameron's claim to be a Smiths' fan almost plausible.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:38 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Did anyone see the tory PPB just before 7.00 this evening? Only caught a bit of it but it was the most excruciating couple of minutes of telly I've ever seen.

If you missed it, it was Boris having an "impromptu" chat with someone as they walked down the corridor to make a brew. Boris's chat was about as natural as Pamela Andrson's tits.

My favourite bit:

Lackey: "who is your favourite band?"
Boris: "ummmmm errrrrrr mumble mumble The Clash"

Makes Cameron's claim to be a Smiths' fan almost plausible.
Their second album does remind me a little of Johnsons political career

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dsr » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:38 pm

All well and good, Spiral, but James Goldsmith's Referendum Party polled almost a million votes in the 1997 general election. Surely that's too early for Russian bots to be making any difference?

How many of the posts on this thread do you think come from Russia?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:41 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Their second album does remind me a little of Johnsons political career
And he could take the advice of their last.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:41 pm

Like I said, the theoretical division already existed. I've not disputed that. But 1 million is way, way below the number who turned out in 2016.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:44 pm

Spiral wrote:I can say one or two things on this. Firstly, you never actually tell a person how to vote. That won't work, and they actually resent the effrontery and push back. The science and psychology behind decision making is fascinating and to put it so reductively to the point of crudeness, you find ways of appealing to the human subconscious (literally nobody has control over their subconscious, otherwise it wouldn't be a subconscious) and the most effective way to push those buttons is by provoking the more primal anxieties such as territorial control, one's agency as a free individual, fear of death. Nobody likes to feel powerless.

Secondly, you don't need to bend everyone to your will, just enough of a population for an idea to take hold, which in the case of Brexit was a tiny slither of the population. You mine data and push the buttons of folks in their respective bubbles. This isn't even sophisticated; social media algorithms filter content for users, doing the targeting for you, but in the case of facebook in particular, users are micro-targeted, with each 'faction', so to speak, absorbing a completely different reality, but similar reality bubbles take form across many other social media platforms. So you now know you can sow ideas in the minds of a small percentage of the more neurotically-inclined members of a population, those with real, honest and totally legitimate anxieties; feed their insecurity them provide a 'solution'. You've identified a crack, so you try to widen it. This is where technology comes into play. The Russians in particular use botfarms - thousands upon thousands of fictitious social media accounts spreading a political message though memes and half-truths which are shared ad infinitum. Amplification is the key. In the case of Brexit, amplify and proliferate pro-Brexit AND pro-EU messages. Amplify division, frame that divisions as being existential, now you've got people at each others' throats. The policy disagreement was already there on a theoretical level, but in the way a radical Islamist might indoctrinate a prisoner who feels outcast, you fuel their baser instincts and let them come to their own conclusions before provoking them to an action once they're on-board. It's why a strongly formed worldview is essential to one's own well-being, regardless of one's political opinions: nobody is totally immune to provocation, but one can at least build better defences against it.

Put simply: Find a point of disagreement, amplify it on social media, poison it, watch that disagreement metastasise into outright hatred. It only needs a slither of the population for this to become mainstream. The minute a contentious claim from the fringe is disputed in the mainstream, it enters the public discourse. Retreating to each others' respective camps, people then find a way to engage - positively or negatively - with the claim. We're now all in a mess shouting at each other about IS fighters invading Britain via Turkey or something. It doesn't feel like interference because we're arguing among ourselves, but that seed was planted by nefarious forces.

It's a bit of a mischaracterisation to say the Russians specifically back Trump/Farage/Brexit, when in actual truth their aim is to back any force which destabilises the current order - an order in which Russia saw a key buffer country in Ukraine move towards the West's sphere of influence and the Crimea annexation met with crippling sanctions which hurt Russia's economy and Putin's popularity.

Like Wow, that took some typing.

I do understand what your saying.

I also agree that could work on some people, but enough to sway an election. I am not sure.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dsr » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:45 pm

Spiral wrote:Like I said, the theoretical division already existed. I've not disputed that. But 1 million is way, way below the number who turned out in 2016.
And the number of people who voted Labour in 1906 was way below the number who voted in 1945. Starting slow and building up momentum is the way it usually works in politics, regardless of Russian internet memes.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dsr » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:47 pm

Spiral wrote:Like I said, the theoretical division already existed. I've not disputed that. But 1 million is way, way below the number who turned out in 2016.
Out of interest, do you think they're in on the Green Party and Extinction Rebellion kick as well?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by jrgbfc » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:47 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Did anyone see the tory PPB just before 7.00 this evening? Only caught a bit of it but it was the most excruciating couple of minutes of telly I've ever seen.

If you missed it, it was Boris having an "impromptu" chat with someone as they walked down the corridor to make a brew. Boris's chat was about as natural as Pamela Andrson's tits.

My favourite bit:

Lackey: "who is your favourite band?"
Boris: "ummmmm errrrrrr mumble mumble The Clash"

Makes Cameron's claim to be a Smiths' fan almost plausible.
I saw it, thought it was a spoof at first. Do you think they got the footage of him making a brew to show that "he's on the side of the working man"? :lol:

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:49 pm

dsr wrote:And the number of people who voted Labour in 1906 was way below the number who voted in 1945. Starting slow and building up momentum is the way it usually works in politics, regardless of Russian internet memes.
Whilst acknowledging your expertise on almost every subject Im afraid the modern super tech world of bots and social media is a step beyond you. Dont worry yourself trying to comprehend as sometimes youve got to just realise and accept when the world has passed you by

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:50 pm

It's literally defining this election, Lowbank. It didn't sway the 2015 election, but the referendum? I personally know formerly politically passive (but still voting) folks who voted Tory in 2015 without even knowing about the referendum pledge who now stake the future of the country on Brexit! That doesn't happen without some message, somewhere, being amplified.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:51 pm

jrgbfc wrote:I saw it, thought it was a spoof at first. Do you think they got the footage of him making a brew to show that "he's on the side of the working man"? :lol:
I only saw him up to taking the tea bag out of the jar - did he manage to make a brew without help?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dsr » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:52 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Whilst acknowledging your expertise on almost every subject Im afraid the modern super tech world of bots and social media is a step beyond you. Dont worry yourself trying to comprehend as sometimes youve got to just realise and accept when the world has passed you by
Are you as unpleasant in real life as you are on here?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dsr » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:54 pm

Spiral wrote:It's literally defining this election, Lowbank. It didn't sway the 2015 election, but the referendum? I personally know formerly politically passive (but still voting) folks who voted Tory in 2015 without even knowing about the referendum pledge who now stake the future of the country on Brexit! That doesn't happen without some message, somewhere, being amplified.
And even more so in Scotland, presumably?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:55 pm

dsr wrote:Are you as unpleasant in real life as you are on here?
Im neither unpleasant on here or in real life. You on the other-hand sound a truly awful person judging by the thoughts, beliefs and opinions you share on here and thats before we even mention your blatant lying.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lord Beamish » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:57 pm

Spiral wrote:Farage won't be releasing a manifesto. The first excuse for not having a manifesto: "we're six weeks old," an excuse repeated verbatim by Farage, BXP MEPs/prospective MEPs and affiliates well into the seventh, eighth, and ninth week of its existence, has been downgraded to "that was a joke." Farage, apparently incapable of sincerity or coherence, says manifestos 'equate to a lie', and in doing what any conman worth his salt would do, capturing the language used to highlight his obvious pitfalls (of which there are many) and turning it against journalists and his critics, seems to be insulting the intelligence of voters. Are people truly willing to publicly admit support for this party, in spite of this? For your own good, never rationalise away a person's behaviours. Don't be a mug, take their words and actions at face value. Treat Farage as you would a shifty car salesman and you'll be better insulated from his bull$hit. Otherwise, you're allowing yourself to become a willing and disposable means to his ambition and wealth.
I don’t think you’ll find a better short abstract about the wrong-headeness of trusting Farage and his motley band of acolytes.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dsr » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:59 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Im neither unpleasant on here or in real life. You on the other-hand sound a truly awful person judging by the thoughts, beliefs and opinions you share on here and thats before we even mention your blatant lying.
That's a yes, then.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:02 pm

dsr wrote:And the number of people who voted Labour in 1906 was way below the number who voted in 1945. Starting slow and building up momentum is the way it usually works in politics, regardless of Russian internet memes.
I suppose two world wars have a knack of changing the status quo. I'm not sure a 2.6% vote share turns into a 52% mandate inside 20 years without some message being amplified or some seismic event, perhaps the financial crash of 2008?
dsr wrote:Out of interest, do you think they're in on the Green Party and Extinction Rebellion kick as well?
Wouldn't be at all surprised, and there definitely have been instances of fictitious 'liberal woke' accounts, in particularly amplifying the online discourse surrounding the BLM movement in the US.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Clarets4me » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:22 pm

Spijed wrote:I didn't realise that once you get on the ballot paper the only way to remove yourself from it is to die!
Unless you are standing as a sole Independent, If you die once nominations are closed, then the election for your Constituency is postponed for 28 days from the date that the Returning Officer receives proof of death. This to allow your party to nominate another Candidate to replace you.

It's happened 6 times since 1945, the most recent being 2015, when the former Eurovision singer, Ronnie Carroll died before polling day. He was standing in Hampstead & Kilburn as an Independent, so the election proceeded as normal. In 2010, the UKIP Candidate for Thirsk & Malton, John Boakes died of a heart attack 14 days before the election date, the poll was postponed, and Thirsk & Malton's seat was contested on 27th May, three weeks after the rest of the Country ....
Last edited by Clarets4me on Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:29 pm

dsr wrote:And even more so in Scotland, presumably?
https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/f ... -1-4617678" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:38 pm

Clarets4me wrote:Unless you are standing as a sole Independent, If you die once nominations are closed, then the election for your Constituency is postponed for 28 days from the date that the Returning Officer receives proof of death. This to allow your party to nominate another Candidate to replace you.

It's happened 6 times since 1945, the most recent being 2015, when the former Eurovision singer, Ronnie Carroll died before polling day. He was standing in Hamstead & Kilburn as an Independent, so the election proceeded as normal. In 2010, the UKIP Candidate for Thirsk & Malton, John Boakes died of a heart attack 14 days before the election date, the poll was postponed, and Thirsk & Malton's seat was contested on 27th May, three weeks after the rest of the Country ....

Thank you,

There’s always an up the clarets person who knows.

Top info

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Rick_Muller » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:43 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Like Wow, that took some typing.

I do understand what your saying.

I also agree that could work on some people, but enough to sway an election. I am not sure.
Doesn’t take a lot of people to sway a constituency, and people like “Mr Muslamic Ray Guns” have the right to vote.

https://amp.reddit.com/r/brexit/comment ... e_average/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now can you see...?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:00 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Doesn’t take a lot of people to sway a constituency, and people like “Mr Muslamic Ray Guns” have the right to vote.
Of course, being dumb as a bag of hammers gives a person no diminished right to a vote, it's a feature of democracy, but it's also worth pointing out that in some marginal constituencies with a swing of just a few hundred to a thousand, a contest could be decided on a party's ability to make its opponent's 'natural base' (if such a thing exists) apathetic to the idea of voting, or spoiling their ballot, which is in my opinion (and I know it's probably a controversial one) a dumb person's idea of a smart idea.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Clarets4me » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:05 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Doesn’t take a lot of people to sway a constituency, and people like “Mr Muslamic Ray Guns” have the right to vote.
https://amp.reddit.com/r/brexit/comment ... e_average/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Now can you see...?
I don't think any wing of politics can claim to be free of intellectually limited voters ... I particularly enjoyed the two young women, interviewed after the Referendum at Glastonbury, saying they hadn't voted, but they'd make sure they vote Remain when it was on again next week !! :(
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Bfcboyo » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:30 pm

AndrewJB wrote:A party for the working class is definitely not the Tories - who receive most of their funding from the City, and have done the bidding of the City since they formed a government in 2010. Look at what they've done to workers rights since then: Increased the time you have to be in contract to two years (from one) that you can be let go for any reason. Forced workers to pay for tribunal costs. Forced down wages by capping public sector salaries. Then there's the whole austerity thing that doesn't affect the rich, but has killed poor people. Even their Brexit stance screws over the ordinary working person, because it will make certain we have a hard brexit that kills jobs. It works for the rich (who don't "work" as ordinary people do - their money works for them), but it'll hit our working class hard.

The Tories have shown time and again, they hate the north, and they hate the working class.
I can't disagree. But this becoming the Brexit election instead of a general election is going to hurt labour. They will lose more voters by sitting on the fence and disrupting any chance of Brexit at every opportunity than they can conceive.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by HieronymousBoschHobs » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:36 pm

AndyClaret wrote:First poll since the Brexit party announcement.
Tories at this stage of the 2017 election compared to now:
poll Nov 12th.jpg
poll Nov 12th.jpg (55.65 KiB) Viewed 1022 times

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dermotdermot » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:45 pm

UNDER SOCIALISM, YOU WILL ALL COOPERATE!

The words uttered by Chairman Corbyn to photographers today. Proof that his idea of socialism is, in fact, totalitarianism. And don’t for one minute tell me he was joking. He has no sense of humour whatsoever.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:49 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Can I ask cause I struggle with this.

How does Russia sway voters.

Have they changed your vote Lancs???
First point, its the influence for money that is the issue, which is why I suspect this report has been suppressed.

Second point, Russian under Putin is trying to destabilize the two main alliances in Europe. That is the EU and NATO.

Guess what Brexit does?

My vote is unaffected because I don't trust Johnson over anything and I don't trust Corbyn on international stuff.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:53 pm

LIB-LAB pact in Canterbury

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:56 pm

dermotdermot wrote:UNDER SOCIALISM, YOU WILL ALL COOPERATE!

The words uttered by Chairman Corbyn to photographers today. Proof that his idea of socialism is, in fact, totalitarianism. And don’t for one minute tell me he was joking. He has no sense of humour whatsoever.
It was a joke and said tongue in cheek you pillock

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:00 pm

The Conservatives are now trying to destroy the family of Harry Dunn. They guy on the bike killed by that American woman!

They really have no scruples. It was obvious from day one they didn't have an ounce of sympathy and would side with the Americans.

https://news.sky.com/story/foreign-offi ... o8GwXXSxZM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dermotdermot » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:09 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:It was a joke and said tongue in cheek you pillock
I refuse to lower myself to your infantile level of posting.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:11 pm

dermotdermot wrote:I refuse to lower myself to your infantile level of posting.
Or ‘I’m a bit embarrassed about getting that wrong’.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dermotdermot » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:14 pm

Not at all. I genuinely think that Corbyn meant it. A Freudian slip.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:30 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:It was a joke and said tongue in cheek you pillock

That’s how naive you are.

Ask the people of China or Hong Kong .

He did mean it, for sure.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:34 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:That’s how naive you are.

Ask the people of China or Hong Kong .

He did mean it, for sure.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:41 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You can just sleep walk into communism.

Some people have to live the reality already.

The man is seriously dangerous.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:50 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:I can't disagree. But this becoming the Brexit election instead of a general election is going to hurt labour. They will lose more voters by sitting on the fence and disrupting any chance of Brexit at every opportunity than they can conceive.
Sitting on the fence? Labour is now the only sensible Brexit option for anyone who wants to leave with a decent deal. Johnson - if he keeps his word - is likely to take us out without a deal, because a free trade deal is unlikely to be agreed in the short space of time.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:53 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:You can just sleep walk into communism.

Some people have to live the reality already.

The man is seriously dangerous.
What the hell are you on about you fool. Have you seen the clip in its full context. He's making fun of himself.

If this is the best you lot can come up with on Corbyn all hope isnt quite lost

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:59 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:You can just sleep walk into communism.

Some people have to live the reality already.

The man is seriously dangerous.
Who stands to gain by this? On the other hand the Tories are said to be backed by nine Russian oligarchs, as well as City financiers, some of whom have taken short positions on a no deal Brexit (against the U.K. economy) worth billions to them.

But you’re worried about Corbyn, rather than the racist, homophobic, lying PM?

Locked