General Election Is On

[Clarets4me]

Labour is now the only sensible Brexit option for anyone who wants to leave with a decent deal.

If Labour negotiated a deal, Corbyn would probably be on the streets waving a banner, protesting against it !!
It's what he loves doing, it's his thing, it's all he's ever done ...

[Lowbankclaret]

Who stands to gain by this? On the other hand the Tories are said to be backed by nine Russian oligarchs, as well as City financiers, some of whom have taken short positions on a no deal Brexit (against the U.K. economy) worth billions to them.

But you’re worried about Corbyn, rather than the racist, homophobic, lying PM?

There you go, let’s play the racist card, or the homophobic card.

Perhaps the people of the UK benefit.

[Spiral]

LIB-LAB pact in Canterbury

Absolute madness tonight. It turns out is isn't a formal pact but rather the LD candidate voluntarily stepping down to help the Lab incumbent who has a majority of 187 (one hundred and eighty seven) over the Tories, who fielded a hard-brexiteer in 2017. But then LD HQ confirmed that there will be a replacement fielded, and that the LDs will fight Canterbury. However, the four approved potential candidates from the local LD party are now all refusing to stand, and the local association appears to be unwilling to play nice with the candidate Swinson will now need to parachute in from outside the constituency. It's thought local activists will campaign for other candidates in the surrounding seats. Local LD party and activists at loggerheads with LDHQ over strategy.

[aggi]

That’s how naive you are.

Ask the people of China or Hong Kong .

He did mean it, for sure.

I've just asked 3. The response from them all was "Eh, what?"

[aggi]

Immigration isn't a straightforward left v right issue either. There is, and always has been, a raging debate on the left as to how to approach immigration.

Here's Bernie Sanders, for instance: Open borders is a Koch Brothers policy... a right wing policy... it would make everyone in America poorer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-k6qOfXz0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or, rather more coarsely, George Galloway's take: Free movement is a capitalist's wet dream

Now racism, that's a bit more of a left v right thing. But that's a completely different concept altogether.

Fair point. I was thinking of immigration in the context of Daily Mail/Express headlines, Farage posters and the like which I'd say was the main feature of the Brexit campaign.

[Jakubclaret]

He's received a lot of unfair criticism recently, but he put our own country first when it mattered.
From Discover on Google https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fKwT_gh3gw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[aggi]

Can I ask cause I struggle with this.

How does Russia sway voters.

Have they changed your vote Lancs???

To be honest, you're an excellent example of this.

You'll happily read, believe and propagate things on social media that are blatantly untrue (all these things the EU are going to do by 2020, etc). Part of the way that these things get such a wide reach in order for you to see them is being retweeted by multiple (~150k I seem to remember) highly dubious accounts (strange usernames/operating hours, originating in Russia, only posts on Brexit/Trump, posting patterns the same as other dubious accounts, etc).

[TheFamilyCat]

He's received a lot of unfair criticism recently, but he put our own country first when it mattered.
From Discover on Google https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fKwT_gh3gw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you believe that, then etc

[Jakubclaret]

If you believe that, then etc

Well instead of trying to ridicule, you could start off by explaining why you don't believe that, it could actually be more constructive than a number of laughing emojis.

[AndrewJB]

If Labour negotiated a deal, Corbyn would probably be on the streets waving a banner, protesting against it !!
It's what he loves doing, it's his thing, it's all he's ever done ...

So you haven’t actually read what he’s said on that, and just decided to make something up.

[AndrewJB]

There you go, let’s play the racist card, or the homophobic card.

Perhaps the people of the UK benefit.

Johnson is in print as a homophobe, racist, and liar. Nobody made him write those things, and if he’s willing to print them, what might he say when the cameras are off?

We can now add anti British to the list, until Johnson publishes the report into Russian interference in our democracy. He has no principles and is a disgrace to the country.

Give me one reason a patriotic Briton would want to see that report withheld.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The rule is that anyone who wants to criticise Johnson as a racist has to criticise Corbyn too. That’s my rule.

The difference is that Johnson throws casual comments around which could be offensive, Corbyn supports a form of racism which in the past has resulted in genocide. It is indefensible.

[Lancasterclaret]

Like Wow, that took some typing.

I do understand what your saying.

I also agree that could work on some people, but enough to sway an election. I am not sure.

Could work on some people?!?

It only works if the people who read and spread it want to believe it.

Hmmmmm

[Lancasterclaret]

Absolute madness tonight. It turns out is isn't a formal pact but rather the LD candidate voluntarily stepping down to help the Lab incumbent who has a majority of 187 (one hundred and eighty seven) over the Tories, who fielded a hard-brexiteer in 2017. But then LD HQ confirmed that there will be a replacement fielded, and that the LDs will fight Canterbury. However, the four approved potential candidates from the local LD party are now all refusing to stand, and the local association appears to be unwilling to play nice with the candidate Swinson will now need to parachute in from outside the constituency. It's thought local activists will campaign for other candidates in the surrounding seats. Local LD party and activists at loggerheads with LDHQ over strategy.

Thats going to happen on a local level a lot in the coming days.

[AndrewJB]

The rule is that anyone who wants to criticise Johnson as a racist has to criticise Corbyn too. That’s my rule.

The difference is that Johnson throws casual comments around which could be offensive, Corbyn supports a form of racism which in the past has resulted in genocide. It is indefensible.

Corbyn spent his life fighting racism. While Corbyn worked to get Mandela freed, Johnson belonged to the Oxford Uni Tories who put up posters calling for Mandela to be hanged!

[TheFamilyCat]

Well instead of trying to ridicule, you could start off by explaining why you don't believe that, it could actually be more constructive than a number of laughing emojis.

Ok, let's look at some facts.
1. He pleaded with Boris to do a deal. Boris said no.
2. He threatened to challenge boris by standing in every constituency. Boris didn't back down.
3. Brexit Party polling slumped.
4. It would cost a fortune to run a campaign in 600 constituencies.
5. He had so little confidence in the party's ability to win any seats that he didn't even stand himself.

But if you believe that he's nobly and patriotically doing it for the country, then that's up to you.

[Spijed]

Corbyn spent his life fighting racism. While Corbyn worked to get Mandela freed, Johnson belonged to the Oxford Uni Tories who put up posters calling for Mandela to be hanged!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... on-mandela" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The praise was in stark contrast to the view taken by Cameron's predecessor and another of his heroes, Margaret Thatcher, who described the African National Congress as "a typical terrorist organisation" and fiercely opposed sanctions against the apartheid regime. Her South Africa policy was in part personal: her husband, Denis, had extensive business interests in the country. But her outrage at sanctions also sprang from her anti-communist convictions, which put the promotion of the free market above most, if not all, other political concerns".

[Cryssys]

Well instead of trying to ridicule, you could start off by explaining why you don't believe that, it could actually be more constructive than a number of laughing emojis.

Have you ever met Ringo?

[CrosspoolClarets]

Corbyn spent his life fighting racism. While Corbyn worked to get Mandela freed, Johnson belonged to the Oxford Uni Tories who put up posters calling for Mandela to be hanged!

Not being a racist means treating people of all races similarly, both in political decisions and generally in terms of respect. People are defined by what they do, not what race they are born into. Jews are not technically a separate race, hence the term antisemite, but it is as though they are in terms of this issue.

Can anyone honestly say equal treatment and respect applies to Corbyn? He has spent his life arguing against oppression, but only when it is the poor being oppressed. You cannot be selective on this issue.

Yesterday 50 Hamas missiles rained down on Tel Aviv from Gaza. I saw a clip of a missile bomb a road, missing two cars by what looked like inches. Where was Corbyn criticising that? Come to think of it, I haven't seen it on our news either. He was too busy on Twitter supporting the Bolivian tyrant who was deposed as leader.

The Jewish Chronicle seem to have a clear view of him. He is terrifying.

https://www.thejc.com/comment/leaders/t ... s-1.491812

[AndyClaret]

It seems like by parachuting a Corbynista into Keith Vaz's safe seat in Leicester East, Labour has upset the big Indian community there.

https://twitter.com/Sundip/status/1194343574193618948" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[martin_p]

It seems like by parachuting a Corbynista into Keith Vaz's safe seat in Leicester East, Labour has upset the big Indian community there.

https://twitter.com/Sundip/status/1194343574193618948" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So when you say ‘community’ you actually mean the individual who wasn’t selected as Labour candidate.

[Cryssys]

The rule is that anyone who wants to criticise Johnson as a racist has to criticise Corbyn too. That’s my rule.

The difference is that Johnson throws casual comments around which could be offensive, Corbyn supports a form of racism which in the past has resulted in genocide. It is indefensible.

Can you look yourself in the mirror? Is their no low that you will not stoop to?

The allegations of antisemitism are tenuous at best and largely based on his opposition to Israels policy with regard to the Palestinians/West Bank/Gaza. Do not forget that Israel has invaded another country, seized their land and built illegal settlements in defiance of UN objections.

When anybody points this out, and this includes the Labour Party, Israel and it's supporters play the holocaust/antisemitism card and its whipped up by a right wing alliance that will stop at nothing to smear both him and the Labour Party.

Do you support Israels actions with regard to the Palestinians?

[AndyClaret]

So when you say ‘community’ you actually mean the individual who wasn’t selected as Labour candidate.

Nope, there were other Hindu candidates, do a twitter search for Leicester East.

Here's another local councillor who stood.

[Erasmus]

Crosspool, you are mixing up the politics of Israel and Palestine with anti-semiticism. One can be the harshest critic of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians without being in any way anti-semitic. Anti-Israel is not racist.

And Jews are defined as a race rather than as a religion. There are many people who are Jewish but who never practise the religion of Judaism and regard the Talmud and Torah as a load of old rubbish.

[AlargeClaret]

I see Lab are as close as 6pts to the Tories from the “10-14” of a week ago in the polls notably “ survation” who were very accurate in 2017. Seems the Brexit party not standing on 300+ seats has actually boosted Lab about 2-1 vs Tories with a fair proportion of that vote either now not voting or going for loon options. Then again you have You Gov putting Tories in 14pt lead

[Lancasterclaret]

I see Lab are as close as 6pts to the Tories from the “10-14” of a week ago in the polls notably “ survation” who were very accurate in 2017. Seems the Brexit party not standing on 300+ seats has actually boosted Lab about 2-1 vs Tories with a fair proportion of that vote either now not voting or going for loon options

The problem the Conservatives have is that they are the party of government and have been for a while.

No one sane trusts them on what they say they will do with the public services, so they are desperate to make this about anything else.

Labour are trying to make it about anything that Corbyn is strong on, and ignoring as much as they can stuff he isn't (Brexit, defence, foriegn policy)

The Farage decision is weird but based on the reality that he's not going to win any seats unless he gets Conservative support.

He's finding out just how tough it is to negotiate an acceptable deal in a limited time scale with a much stronger opponent........

[AndyClaret]

I see Lab are as close as 6pts to the Tories from the “10-14” of a week ago in the polls notably “ survation” who were very accurate in 2017. Seems the Brexit party not standing on 300+ seats has actually boosted Lab about 2-1 vs Tories with a fair proportion of that vote either now not voting or going for loon options. Then again you have You Gov putting Tories in 14pt lead

The yougov poll is the only one post brexit party decision, Brexit Party MEP Martin Daubney has this morning suggested that there will be more co-operation on a seat by seat basis.

[tiger76]

And the Conservatives need to get their own house in order before throwing dirt around,Islamophobia is rife in their associations and membership,https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50398826what a choice for the public anti-semitism or Islamophobia,has UK politics ever been at such a low ebb.

[martin_p]

Nope, there were other Hindu candidates, do a twitter search for Leicester East.

Here's another local councillor who stood.

Apologies, I should have said ‘two candidates’. I’ll let you do the scouring of the internet for more.

[Cryssys]

Yesterday 50 Hamas missiles rained down on Tel Aviv from Gaza. I saw a clip of a missile bomb a road, missing two cars by what looked like inches. Where was Corbyn criticising that? Come to think of it, I haven't seen it on our news either. He was too busy on Twitter supporting the Bolivian tyrant who was deposed as leader.

The Jewish Chronicle seem to have a clear view of him. He is terrifying.

https://www.thejc.com/comment/leaders/t ... s-1.491812

You missed the first bit out. You know, the bit about the Israeli air force starting it by launching a series of air raids on Palestine yesterday.

As for the Jewish Chronicle (JC), it's a right wing rag, a bit like the Mail or Express on steroids. They have a clear agenda, a dislike of Labour policies and their campaign of smearing of Corbyn is motivated by their politics. Have you looked at who owns and edits the JC?

[android]

The problem the Conservatives have is that they are the party of government and have been for a while.

No one sane trusts them on what they say they will do with the public services, so they are desperate to make this about anything else.

Labour are trying to make it about anything that Corbyn is strong on, and ignoring as much as they can stuff he isn't (Brexit, defence, foriegn policy)

The Farage decision is weird but based on the reality that he's not going to win any seats unless he gets Conservative support.

He's finding out just how tough it is to negotiate an acceptable deal in a limited time scale with a much stronger opponent........

Crikey I'm insane. Thanks Lancs.

Fair points from Erasmus. Utter delusion from Cryssys. The anti-Semitism problem is real alright. Far too many people involved to brush it under the carpet or play the false equivalence game. The Jewish Labour MPs / former Jewish Labour MPs have spelt it out for anyone even remotely open minded.

[AndyClaret]

A very good description of Labours brexit policy.

[Claretmatt4]

Ooh look, a politics thread without polarising, biased views and insults being flinged about.

So glad I took some time to read it, makes things a lot more clearer.

[RMutt]

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... =2&t=43136" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks bfccrazy. All a bit old news, water under the bridge now I suppose. But look at the newspapers in the link. Will you be trusting them to give you honest, fair, balanced and unbiased reporting on the upcoming election?

[android]

A very good description of Labours brexit policy.

Agreed.

If there was another referendum on Leave v Remain we can probably all agree the result would be close and tough to call.

If Labour's referendum happened I just don't see how anyone would vote for the deal. Wouldn't everyone agree that their deal is worse than remaining? Would anyone on here vote for the Labour deal? Surely there would be a landslide for Remain on a low turnout. And that would put the issue to bed!?

[Clarets4me]

According to the Guardian, the Labour party are moving from their pro-Pakistan policy on the issue of the disputed area of Kashmir, on the India-Pakistan border, to one urging a negotiated settlement ...

It will mean nothing to most of us on here, but it is very much a " hot potato " amongst Burnley's Asian heritage voters and the issue on which Julie Cooper has asked most Foreign policy questions in her 4 years as Burnley's MP.

[AndyClaret]

https://twitter.com/RaynerSkyNews/statu ... 2644480001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[FactualFrank]

So... who are people going to vote for?

[Rick_Muller]

https://twitter.com/RaynerSkyNews/statu ... 2644480001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The thing I took from that was the bloke heckling him acknowledged that JC would be Prime Minister... Oh and that the same bloke was also a tw@t

[AndyClaret]

The thing I took from that was the bloke heckling him acknowledged that JC would be Prime Minister... Oh and that the same bloke was also a tw@t

Corbyn ran away ! Is that what he will do if he's Prime Minister ? Yesterday he told journalists "under socialism you will conform"

[AndyClaret]

This is pushing some of the Lib Dems voodoo polls for weapons grade deceitfulness.

[Rick_Muller]

Corbyn ran away ! Is that what he will do if he's Prime Minister ? Yesterday he told journalists "under socialism you will conform"

I think you'll see that Corbyn walked away from Rab C Nesbitt who was being inappropriate with a stupid question.

[Jakubclaret]

Ok, let's look at some facts.
1. He pleaded with Boris to do a deal. Boris said no.
2. He threatened to challenge boris by standing in every constituency. Boris didn't back down.
3. Brexit Party polling slumped.
4. It would cost a fortune to run a campaign in 600 constituencies.
5. He had so little confidence in the party's ability to win any seats that he didn't even stand himself.

But if you believe that he's nobly and patriotically doing it for the country, then that's up to you.

Number 4 is probably a valid point, the other 4 points he's already gone some way to explaining the reasoning in the short video when piers & susanna were picking the bones, it's simply a case of whether you believe the man or don't.

[AndyClaret]

I think you'll see that Corbyn walked away from Rab C Nesbitt who was being inappropriate with a stupid question.

I didn't know Rab C Nesbitt was a Chruch of Scotland Minister !

[claretonthecoast1882]

I think you'll see that Corbyn walked away from Rab C Nesbitt who was being inappropriate with a stupid question.

Some might class that as racial stereotyping.

[Rick_Muller]

Some might class that as racial stereotyping.

thats exactly what it was, as was the actual character Rab C Nesbitt

[TheFamilyCat]

Number 4 is probably a valid point, the other 4 points he's already gone some way to explaining the reasoning in the short video when piers & susanna were picking the bones, it's simply a case of whether you believe the man or don't.

Fair enough, I don't believe him and I believe those that do to be a bit gullible.

[Jakubclaret]

Fair enough, I don't believe him.

Good, I'm pleased for you & I wasn't asking you to.

[dermotdermot]

I think you'll see that Corbyn walked away from Rab C Nesbitt who was being inappropriate with a stupid question.

I think that you’re making rather lame excuses for Corbyn who is, quite clearly, trying to portray himself as this calm, softly spoken rational man of late but is, in truth, the exact opposite.

[martin_p]

Corbyn ran away ! Is that what he will do if he's Prime Minister ? Yesterday he told journalists "under socialism you will conform"

You won’t find Johnson running away, mainly because he seems to be hiding and only doing very controlled press conferences and meeting vetted members of the public. He’s in some of the Yorkshire flood areas today but has refused all interviews with local media v